Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: GrannieAnnie on March 17, 2008, 09:55:30
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Just happened to read that some varieties are't permitted and was wondering...
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It is to do with seed varieties having to be registered in order to be sold since the UK joined the Common Market, which costs a lot of money. Seed companies only register varieties that sell well, those that don't are dropped from catalogues and may disappear. The EU's argument is that registration ensures the quality of seeds being sold, but last years survey by Gardening Which? still found that germination rates of sold seeds varied enormously, some packets had 99% dead seeds, so it hasn't really helped has it! ???
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I thought it was simply because the EU likes to make up stupid rules to make our lives more difficult.
Derris dust which a lot of us rely on is going to be withdrawn this year because the rotenone manufacturers can no longer afford the EU's extortianate testing fees.
http://www.kitchengarden.co.uk/thismonth.php
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/approvals.asp?id=2288
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I ought to ask the nanny (state) if I can go to the toilet...................I was only saying to GA yesterday how wonderful to have lived in an era of great changes, colour tv, man on the moon, Haleys comet, the solar eclipse, emails ect.
The downside is we all get treated like we're no brainers, the health and safety regs are a joke, and many more that I wont go into because that will make this too political. The worst sign of the times in my eyes is the fact that our children are far from safe.
I remember I went out with my friends to the woods, local stream or wherever and didn't come home till I was hungry. Those days are sadly gone forever, I feel so sorry for the kids not to experience that freedom :(
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I am not saying that everything in the EU is rosy but if it is as bad as most people think it is, why does most of the Labour party, all of the LibDems, most of the Tories, the Scottish Nats, Plaid Cymru (both want out of the UK but in the EU), Sinn Fein, the DUP, UDP..... all want to stay in? In fact, it is only the rump right wing parties that peddle hate and blame, some of the rump left wing parties and the Greens that want out. I am personally a Green but do differ with the party on this issue.
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Financial reasons...........?
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Financial reasons (benefits for the country) which therefore must obviously significantly outweigh the downsides - or are you alleging mass corruption on the part of all those mentioned above and that they are all lining their own pockets. Cos if you are, I hope you are posting through a proxy because the writs winging there way to you will be very very costly.
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Who mentioned corruption, Do you know something we don't?
Financial gains must be the only reason why all these gullable people think we are better of being 'ruled' by beaurocrats.
We should have shoved that straight banana where the sun don't shine, then we would not have had to put up with the rest of the crap they throw at us.
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Oops - sorry there should have been one of these ;D at the end of the last post :-[
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Yes I was about to say UP THE MARINERS,think that's how you spell it :)
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before the e.u. regulations, a seed company could put anything in a packet and sell it, now it has to be true to type, of known origin, etc.
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Yes I was about to say UP THE MARINERS,think that's how you spell it :)
Might choke, but I hope the codheads beat the Franchise - fake football club that they are.
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Oops - sorry there should have been one of these ;D at the end of the last post :-[
Well it was to 'benefit the country'. But at the risk of a writ :-\, I wonder where freedom of speech has disappeared to? It's ridiculous, everyone is suing each other for the most trivial things. Anything can be misconstrued as racism, sexism and any other ism. And we cant give our honest opinion on the way we feel our country is run because of a different ism >:(
If anyone mentions my hair, I'll have them for hairism :P.
The days of the free country have long gone, and I for one don't like the idea of being ruled by Brussels. And the fact that Tony Blair may even end up being President of the EU. It was mentioned a few weeks ago and my jaw dropped......I hope I heard it right ::)
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before the e.u. regulations, a seed company could put anything in a packet and sell it,
I'm sorry to say that some of them still do.
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Poor old Brussels - gets blamed for everything. Lots of fairy tales too.
If you want rare, seldom, unusual seeds for veges or flowers go to Chiltern Seeds, they have plenty of choice.
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If you want rare, seldom, unusual seeds for veges or flowers go to Chiltern Seeds
They've sold me packets of weeds in the past and they are expensive.
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The RHS "Garden" magazine has a feature this month on why seed companies don't always get it right and why people need to feedback any problems to the company.
Chiltern, for example, source seeds from hundreds of other places in lots of countries. If one of their suppliers is doing something wrong (for example not correctly isolating a particular variety from others, mis-identifying something, not storing collected seed correctly etc.) then there's no way that a UK company could systematically spot that - they're not big enough to grow on everything they sell themselves and check it was ok.
Sale of seeds (particularly of food crops) was strictly regulated in this country long before the EU came along. All the EU did was to harmonize the laws so that they're the same in each country, so that seed companies and farmers can buy and sell across borders. The domestic seed market is a tiny percentage in comparison to what commercial growers use - probably not even an afterthought when it comes to making laws.
Baccy man - the Americans are looking at the same science as the EU and could well ban Derris too due to the links with parkinsons & respiratory problems and effects on fish population. You'll have to go to fiji where they use derris roots for fishing - dangle them in the water and wait for the fish to float to the top ;)
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Just checked - looks like rotenone was actually withdrawn for commercial and household use in the US in 2006. It's now only allowed for use by government agencies as a fish poison (and even that is currently under review.)
Be interesting to know the soil association's position on this - it's one of the few pesticides they consider "organic".
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The US scientists gave their lab rats high doses of rotenone intravenously for five consecutive weeks before it had any adverse effects. No link between rotenone & humans developing parkinsons has been demonstrated yet.
The reason derris dust is being withdrawn in the EU is because the company that produces it can no longer afford the tests just the same as when armillotox was withdrawn for use as a pesticide, insecticide & herbicide within the EU.
It costs a lot to register the product and the supplier has to conduct lots of safety and health checks on the consequences of the product in relation to lots of criteria, the total cost of gathering this data is estimated to be in the region of £3 million. This type of requirement rules out many products due to the fact that as not much is produced and used it becomes cost inneffective for companies to register and test them.
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The US scientists gave their lab rats high doses of rotenone intravenously for five consecutive weeks before it had any adverse effects. No link between rotenone & humans developing parkinsons has been demonstrated yet.
The reason derris dust is being withdrawn in the EU is because the company that produces it can no longer afford the tests just the same as when armillotox was withdrawn for use as a pesticide, insecticide & herbicide within the EU.
It costs a lot to register the product and the supplier has to conduct lots of safety and health checks on the consequences of the product in relation to lots of criteria, the total cost of gathering this data is estimated to be in the region of £3 million. This type of requirement rules out many products due to the fact that as not much is produced and used it becomes cost inneffective for companies to register and test them.
All true, but what do you think should be done differently?
Are you saying that pesticide manufacturers shouldn't have to conduct health and safety and environmental checks on their products - particularly ones that other countries have already ruled are unsafe? Or do you think the checks should be paid for by the taxpayer (ie done by the EU rather than the company) instead?
As you say, the problem with Derris is that it's not used by farmers, so there's no money in it, whereas £3 million is peanuts to Monsanto etc. for stuff that is used in commercial horticulture/ agriculture.
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....what do you think should be done differently?
That's a very difficult question to answer, if I believed I knew the answer I would of already given it.
Are you saying that pesticide manufacturers shouldn't have to conduct health and safety and environmental checks on their products - particularly ones that other countries have already ruled are unsafe? Or do you think the checks should be paid for by the taxpayer (ie done by the EU rather than the company) instead?
Products have to be tested & it is the manufacturer who should pay for any required tests as they are the ones who are telling us the products are safe to use & will benefit financially from the sales.
There are numerous products which meet the EU requirements which I am not willing to use despite them being proved safe. While it is very rare for me to resort to using an insecticide derris dust is the only currently available product I have felt comfortable using, primarily because it is based on natural ingredients.
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re testing fees: I formerly worked on an agricultural chemicals and pharmaceuticals site where testing was done trying to find new safe products. Quite an eye opener seeing how many people have to be paid to keep the greenhouses, keep the animals and fish tanks going, do the planting and crop care- and those are just the bottom rung workers. Then the scientists and all their lab workers. Then those of us who were in health and safety, and the personnel people, the legal people....on and on. All that to get a few new products on the market every couple years. The number of chemicals that fail the basic tests eg harming fish are astounding.
So that is why a company won't put research money into producing for a limited market.