Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: BAK on March 08, 2008, 08:17:09
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I want to produce a quick summary for potential plot holders to give them some idea of what they might be letting themselves in for. Too many newbies fall by the wayside because they did not appreciate what was involved.
I was therefore interested in allaboutliverpool's figures that he quoted on the "half a ton of produce" thread - http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,39627.0.html (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,39627.0.html)
"1 hour a week in Winter.
10-20 hours a week in Spring.
1-7 hours a week in Summer
2 hours a week in Autumn".
From my experience I came up with a rough general figure of one hour per week per pole during the main growing season (Mar-Sep), ie 10 hours per week on a full-sized 10 pole plot. This assumes that you are going to keep it relatively weed-free in the main.
Any thoughts - how much time do you spend?
Also interested to hear of the minimum that plot holders get away with ... and how they do it.
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I will be watching this thread with interest - need to know what I am letting myself in for. I have to admit that the 20 hours a week mentioned by Allaboutliverpool scared me a bit as I simply don't have that much time to spare.
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We have five plots... but only about 1200sq yds (40 poles) as some are smaller than full plots... I'd say we spend about twice of the maxima posted but there are two of us so the figures seem to be about right..
;D
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i have a half plot (8 meters by 16). my approxomate times are
winter couple hours a week
early spring about three hours a week
late spring and summer ten to twelve hours a week
autumn abut three or four hours a week.
thats for a small plot though and i would say that i had to spend more time than that when i started to get the ball rolling as it were.
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yes Sarah, I am ignoring the time taken to get the plot ship-shape which is even more of a how long is a piece of string question.
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Results on an approx 160ft plot:
8 hours a week spring/summer
5 hours a week autumn/winter
But mostly that's because I want to! I grow vegetables from seed (you could buy in mini-plants); collect 'free' mulch and compost material from around the plot (I cut down all the nettles, grass on the verges post insects of course) and prod at things. Time in autumn/winter less because it's cold!
I reckon buying in mini-plants or choosing non-intensive crops plus buying in compost would cut time by half.
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Well as others have pointed out time spent is seasonal.
I have two 60ftx30ft plots. and three greenhouses and find that once you are on top of things the time spent relative to the harvest produced is minimal.
It increases substantially if you grow under glass/polythene due to the need to water plants.
A rough guide of my input is as follows;
Jan-Feb; Basically no time at all other than to harvest crops. (Total say 4 hours)
March-May; Again very little but I do spend around 4 hours per week in the greenhouse growing the new seasons crops. (Total say 50 hours)
May-June; Planting out say 15 hours and 10 hours after care; (Total 25 hours)
June-Oct Say 5 hours per week ( 85 hours)
Oct-Nov ; Winter digging 3hours per day for 2-3 weeks (Total say 50 hours)
Nov -Dec; Basically no time at all other than to harvest crops. (Total say 4 hours)
Grand total; circa 220 hours + a little over 4 hours per week over the year.
As I said this is for two plots but that wouldn't alter much for one plot. The difference might amount to around one hour per week (on average) less.
I hope this helps with your calculations!
ps I think what you must tell all your prospective plot holders is;
The first year can be hell if starting from scratch.
Secondly and I think this is the straw that breaks the camels back in most cases, and that is................even after all that hard digging and weed clearing...................the weeds will return annually for as long as they have a plot.
Point out that there is no way out of that and show them the best plot on the site and state that even these people have to ...............WEED!!
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Two 25 x 30 Yard plots, 2 x 20ft Polly tunnels, ( a third one to be built next month ) 2x 6 by 8 aluminium greenhouse,s, 2 self build greenhouse,s.
A minimum of four hours a day six days a week every day of the year. I knock my heating off during the day so have to return again at night to put it back on. Never garden on a Sunday. Always take a coffee break at 11am.
Being in the North East and living right on the coast puts me about a month behind gardeners further South.
As i grow show produce my season starts again as most people,s is coming to an end in November, so if i want to get the best from my normal produce i have to have every thing completed IE double dug, rotorvated, raked level, soil riddled and stored and so on by the end of next week. This then gives me time to empty and prepare leek trenches, set up my carrot and parsnip tubes and beds for show veg. My completion time is the end of this month. Then my garden becomes enjoyable , even putting the spuds in is a pleasure.
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Because we both work during the day, I've tried to design the plot (25ft x 55ft) to minimise upkeep and haven't maximised the possible number of beds, instead having broader paths and a small patio area. I regret this sometimes when running out of space for my seedlings but one has to be realistic about the hours you are going to be able to put in and plan accordingly.
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The first year took me about 20 hours per week to clear it! Clearing the building site and jungle. I also prepared the ground for the following year, built my chicken Cree, erected the greenhouse, put in paths, built compost bins, waterproofed my shed and chicken Cree, put a gate on the entrance, fixed damaged fencing, put up guttering to catch rainwater. These were one off jobs that will hopefully last ::)
The following timings do not take into account sowing seeds in pots in my greenhouse at home. Once it was cleared it now takes an average of
10-12 hours per week in spring / summer (I would do more if I had more time)
6-8 hours per week in the autumn (clearing beds once they have been harvested.)
4-5 hours per week in the winter, maximum. (Cleaning tubs, clearing brambles, spreading manure for the following year to name a few jobs.)
2 x 10 minutes daily to feed hens and collect eggs.
2 hours monthly cleaning out the hen house
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Well I think you are all missing the point of having an allotment. It's not about how much work you have to do or how many hours it will take, it should be a part of your lifestyle, chill out time, enjoyment, exercise etc. Nor is it about tonnage. A 10 pole plot can easily produce 2-5 tons of produce but who wants that many parsnips or worzels? How much does a bunch of flowers weigh in pleasure units?
Having an allotment really means a commitment to something you want to do, and should be regular. Once a week EVERY week, twice a week most weeks, Daily is best.
Having an allotment is a lifestyle and should not be broken down into 'How much work will I have to do?' If you see it as work you might as well get a job or some overtime then spend the money.
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Interesting thread. My answer is "about a couple of hours a week more than I've time for!"
I'd add that a lot depends on:
1. The condition of your plot when you take it on (I had a wilderness with carpet, broken glass, random bits of tatty black plastic, couch, marestail and bindweed. Four years ago on my first season, I managed a bed of broad beans, a block of sweetcorn and some courgetttes. Year 2 was my low point - with the 'naughty letter' from the council. But I've worded on clearing stuff by hand rather than Roundup - and this year, it's clearer that ever - as I cut down on the 'generous' paths between beds to accommodate all the stuff I want to plant. (MESSAGE BEING: DON'T TRY TO DO IT ALL AT ONCE).
2. Your ambitions. (This year I've decided to put a larger area than before over to soft fruit. In years 2 and 3 I was heavy on spuds . I paid the price last year with blight but the digging at least allowed me to wage herbivorous genocide against the d**n weeds - and a wonderfully unexpected council skip the other week allowed me to junk the last of all the cr#p that my predecessor left - with the exception of broken glass.
More than effort, I'm coming to learn that what works for me on mine is PERSISTANCE - trying to leave it, overall, in a better state than I found it every visit!.
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Eristic,
I am sure that WE all realise the joys of allotmenting and dont worry about the time put in or the money considerations.
However, there are newbies out there who have romantic notions about producing organic, pesticide free crops but equally have little idea about the effort that they will have to put in to meet their objectives.
My objective is simply to give them some idea of what they are letting themselves in for. For example, I would much rather they asked for a smaller plot that they felt that they could cope with rather than get quickly disillusioned with a larger one ... this could be as little as a quarter plot rather than (say) a half plot. On our site I guestimate that getting on for 50% of newbies quickly fall by the way side ... unfortunately many of them hang on to their plots, cultivating less and less as years go by, thus exacerbating the waiting list.
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I'm not trying to knock you BAK and I blame dumb TV programs for glorifying the activity. The fact remains that every day the plotholder is absent, weeds grow and soil compacts. By the way, the only reason I do not have money considerations is because having no money, I cannot consider spending any. Far too many newcomers seem to think throwing money at the plot will give them an advantage over old duffers like me but usually the time spent fetching, using and returning the machines takes longer than simply spading it over.
Small nursery plots for newcomers is a very good idea with just 1-2 poles max and monthly inspections and short lease as a control. They could then migrate to bigger plots as they become available if they are capable. There will always be a failure rate as reality kicks in just as the puppy for Christmas still wants a walk in Feb.
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I certainly agree that recent TV series that have glorified having an allotment have exacerbated the problem with newbies - you only have to look at the number of "I've got a new plot what do I do now" threads on forums - particularly the BBC Forum.
I think the biggest reason newbies fall by the wayside is not the up keep of a plot but the "Getting it clean and workable" in the first place. Its a lot of hard graft, and can be both back breaking and soul destroying. With techniques such as raised beds and grid gardening you can get away with about 2 hours a week in terms of maintenance, the problem is it may take you 400hours of hard work to that state of affairs.
Unfortunately there is no substitute for experience or for putting in the effort and researching what you may be faced with before even putting your name down on a waiting list.
Aside from the effort of taken to put a plot into a workable state there seem to be several other aspects that hamper newbies most notably
1) they don't know what veg will grow in what conditions
2) they don't know when to sow or plant anything
3) they don't have a plan
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I agree with Eristic on the point of dumb gardening programmes.
What the would be gardener is not told is these the gardeners presenting the programme are growing under perfect conditions with a team to back them up. Some even have the facilities and backing of universities. They are sponsored by a number of firms so therefor don't have to buy fertilizers and so on. It looks good on TV, but its not reality
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HI 5ROD HERE
THIS YEAR I HAVE TAKEON1/2 PLOT
EXRA.TOO GET THE PLOT READY I.E
REMOVE ALL COUCH GRASS,WEEDS
AND DUGOVER,MANURE
17 HOURS AND 7 PEAT BAGS FULL OF
COUCH GRASS,LOOKS GOOD NOW
:D :D :D :D :D
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I understand what you are all saying, but we all have to start somewhere. I'm lucky that I have had a chance to grow veg in my garden. So I have a basic idea of what I'm doing.
Some people are not lucky enough to have a garden big enough to have a go.
I'm sure all of us have made errors in judgement when it comes to trying something new. None of us know everything before we start, alot of it we learn as we go along.
Maybe if you have some newcomers come in why not offer a six month lease instead of a year, with the option of extending to a year. You could do an inspection at six months so that if its not being tended you can offer it to someone else.
I'm sure most people will know if its for them after 6 months.
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Hi gardening-gal
I think you're misunderstanding the point that was being made. We're aware that people have to start somewhere, after all we did once, but the problem seems to be that they want everything on a plate these days.
They seem to expect to be able to walk onto a new plot, that is in immaculate condition, and be spoon fed with plant this here and that there, and do this now, and that in 2 months time.
Most don't appear to know what books are or what libraries are for, let alone how to research a subject, or teach themselves.
If they're done their basic research, have a plan in their head or on paper of what they need to achieve and when, they stand a better chance of being able to survive the initial "Oh my god impact" when they first see their new plot.
I'm well aware that no plan every survives contact with the enemy, but if you have no plan in the first place you have no basis upon which to begin.
And a plan is not "I want to grow some veg so my kids know what veg looks like and I know where it comes from and I need some exercise" thats a set of goals.
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I myself was a "newbie" some five or six years ago, although I had always grown in a very large garden, allotmenting is very different to growing in the garden! It takes an awful lot of work. I have four 10 pole plots, and, although we've had them for several years now, there are still many things we still have to do. Trouble is, as we've got more groud worked each year, I still find I've got FAR too many seedlings! There is never enough space!!! Now, as I said in my previous thread, on top of my own 4 plots, I have started managing a new project involving 4 plots at a total of 1000sq m. How on earth will I manage so much??? But, with my project, I am aiming to give my mental health service users a solid foundation, and offer all the skills needed to take on their own allotments, perhaps in small groups at first, with us still acting as a support if necessary, so that they wil lnot become overwhelmed, and will be able to help each other.
I think a lack of basic practical skills is often largley to blame for "newbies" falling by the way side.
On my personal plots, I have people behind me who came an cleared their five plots two years ago, did all the hard work, cleared, weeded, turned the ground etc, then never came back - for the last two years, I've not only been fighting against my own weeds, but also all the god damned seed blowing over from theirs, as their weeds are now rougly 4 feet and all the seed blows over the hedge!!!
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Its funny you say the Oh my god reaction. My first reaction when I saw my plot was wow, this is mine. My first day digging I was thinking Oh my god we are never gonna get this done LOL.
It does depend on the person taking it over whether its just a flash in the pan idea or whether its something they really want to make a go of and put the effort into. It is a shame if people just wanting the ideal deprive people who really want to give it a go.
Mindbodyandsoil I really don't know why people who put all that effort into clearing a patch don't want to make the most of all the hard work they've put into it, it seems like madness.
We have had our allotment one week and me and my other half have spent 20 hours down there. So far we have dug over and removed dock nettle and couch grass from about a third of our plot.
Maybe site inspections need to be done more regularly, not sure if that a popular option with allotment holders
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Its funny you say the Oh my god reaction. My first reaction when I saw my plot was wow, this is mine. It does depend on the person taking it over whether its just a flash in the pan idea or whether its something they really want to make a go of and put the effort into. It is a shame if people just wanting the ideal deprive people who really want to give it a go.
I felt the same way. It occurs to me that the time estimates offered are from experienced plotters....novices may take more time simply because they make unwitting errors that need correcting, or fail with something from lack of knowledge and feel disheartened and give up.
There is nothing like being shown how to do something, I was taught by my Nan the propagating queen, and my Grandad down his allotment when I was a kid, my parents did no gardening at all! As nuclear families seemingly die out, I'm guessing an increasing number of people get all of their gardening knowledge from the telly, internet or books...which may lead to the unrealistic expectations as mentioned previously as programmes have moved away from a 'how to' format. This afternoon I popped down my local garden center as I had run out of plant labels...I couldn't help overhearing an assistant helping a young couple who obviously wanted to grow tomatoes from seed, she was showing them seed trays and was talking about sowing, pricking out...they just looked baffled! She obviously twigged this, then suggested they come back and buy some plants later on (hah!), and then moved them towards the book section.....
I know some sites run classes for prospective plot holders, this seems like a really good idea to me...I'm sure it leads to less abandoned plots.
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Hi all,
I spent my first summer on the plot just clearing it. Every day for six weeks,
then weekends through the autumn and winter.
It never occured to me to plant anything until the autumn when fruit bushes
and trees went in. I was lucky enough to be able to harvest blackberries from
both ends of the plot and other allotmenteers were kind with marrows and runner beans.
You can imagine the plot I started with, but now it produces huge amounts of fruit, veg and flowers in return for not too much work. Its now mostly easily managed beds of permanent planting and high value crops that mostly take care of themselves. It has a system of underground hoses for labour free irrigation.
So I got a second plot which was like a huge field of couch grass, again requiring weeks of hard work. But now it digs easily enough and produces long rows of food staples.
How much work? I don`t know because I just do the work I need to or feel like doing. It stays managable, I never dig more than a "yard" strip of this plot in a day because of my old hips. I do some heavy work and some light work depending on how I feel. I learnt to plant with straight rows (not staggered for space) to make hoeing easier.
I have finally got my camping gaz stove in my potting shed and myself and a plot neighbour make coffee a couple of times a day, and I always arrive early and take my breakfast on the plot after a couple of hours work. I leave around mid-afternoon. I am on the plot all weekends and school holidays. I am rarely on the plot in the evenings except in the first hot days of summer to check on seedlings.
I think newbies often don`t realise how much effort it takes to manage a plot year round and don`t realise how quickly it will revert to a weed patch if they don`t keep on top of it. I now make a point of offering help in the early stages, often with a bit of strimming to encourage newbies. Although I have a vested interest in the site being fully worked and not overgrown.
I spend a lot of time not gardening, I spent a day last week building a picket fence from wood offcuts. I spent about five days wheelbarrowing wood chips from a small wood next to our site, I spend several days each year collecting leaves for leaf mould. I have spent lots of time on sheds, fruit cages and greenhouses. Sometimes harvesting crops takes a long time, wether its a bit of everything for the weeks dinners or emptying a fruit bush to make jam.
This will always be a, "How long is a piece of string?" question,
:)Col
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Well I think you are all missing the point of having an allotment. It's not about how much work you have to do or how many hours it will take, it should be a part of your lifestyle, chill out time, enjoyment, exercise etc.
If you see it as work you might as well get a job or some overtime then spend the money.
I do not think anybody is "missing the point" as you say. We were asked a question to which people have answered. Nobody is complaining, just answering the question by saying how committed and dedicated some plot holders are. I do think it is a good idea to inform potential plot holders of what they may be about to take on, to ensure it is what they really want and are capable of doing so.
At the same time, some councils can be quick to issue warning letters to plot holders who are clearing overgrown plots. Maybe it is they who need to know just how long it takes to clear an overgrown plot by hand, so letters are not dished out in haste. Some people work faster than others, some more knowledgeable. Hopefully the majority of new plot holders are making more than a token effort, doing the best they can.
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I have had my allotment since November ,I dont think ive missed more than four maybe five days of being there working at something, ie The
shed when the right bits of wood were available , building the beds when the wood for that was available , digging the beds, marking out, planting
seeds, planting the beds, etc etc . Ive called it working but it isnt its a pleasure/ hobby , I might spend half an hour to an hour just looking and thinking , What i do now how will it affect things later .
Instead of how long do i spend on my lottment and how hard is it for newbies should it not be ...If you have to ask you dont want an allotment?
mrf94
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I have been very slowly digging out beds from a large rough field for nearly two years. I may be slow, but I'm thorough: all the weeds are bagged up to rot down, and the four long thin beds (about 7m x 1m - two more to come) are clean and productive, with weed free paths between them and round the edge. I can't say how long I spend there, but I've travelled a great deal over the last 12 months and have had to neglect it for weeks and months at a time. When getting back to it, my first priority has always been the weeding, so that the beds stay clean. I strim the remaining area, and cover it with cardboard and planks of wood. When I've done it all, I'll start to extend downhill.
During that time I have watched people arriving at the field to stake out their own plots, chatted to them, and watched them do the most backbreaking hours of digging - yet because they are not thorough, the weeds have returned, and the people have vanished. Five plots have returned to rough field recently.
One of the reasons I took on that plot (I have another elsewhere) was to have somewhere where 7 grandsons could run wild, climb trees, and build bonfires and shelters. We have just spent a wonderful few hours doing exactly that; four fires cooking sausages, potatoes, bacon, marshmallows with three boys in charge of their own fires, learning for themselves how to do it. Waste wood from a local factory stays dry in a shelter put up by the 12 yr old recently. The nine year old has his own plot on one of my beds, and his radishes and broad beans are swarming up out of the soil. An 11year old, an occasional visitor, had no idea what to do but quickly caught on.
Further up the hill, two new sets of people were starting their new plots, and I do hope they'll stay.
So that's what my allotmenting is about: freedom, fun, open air cooking, and fresh fruit and veg. It would be interesting or perhaps depressing to count the hours, but I am not organised enough.
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Nice post Artichoke!
Today my 11 yo was helping me - and as a gardening assistant, he's a fine cyclist!
But the idea of extending my next bonfire into a campfire with sausages will go down a treat!
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i got my plot last November and it was a jungle as most are and i did get a bit scared about what i had taken on ::) ::) but i see my lotty as somewhere where i can go and enjoy doing all the digging, planting,chickens,bonfires.i I know that i will make mistakes but it wont be the end of the world if i do and i have never counted how long i spend down there but if i was to listen to my OH it would seem that i live down there and only come home when the food supply runs out or i need a bath but that's me and i went into this knowing it would be hard work and with my eyes wide open i suppose it depends on a persons other commitments as to how much time they spend on there allotment but i do think the sites with classes are good and wish we had one as i would attend as it is easy to be shown then to read out of a book and still get it wrong
it is annoying to see some plots that aren't being worked and know there is a waiting list it would be good if our council did inspections as I'm sure they would then be able to see whats what and then maybe the list would go down but that is only MY opinion
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Re: hours spent 'working' on the allotment - well it depends how long you spend talking to everyone!!!!!!!!
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well it depends how long you spend talking to everyone!!!!!!!!
Yes! That's why I'm not telling how many hours I spend on the plot.
I get far more done in November-December as there are fewer distractions. But 2-3 hours talking to others is a pastime activity much the same as going down the pub. All part of the enjoyment.
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Never really totalled up how many hours a week I do up there. Only had it since the summer last year and most of that was spent clearing it. At that point I would say I was doing about 3 hours a day pretty much 7 days a week. In the winter, if it's been a nice day then I'll do 3-4 hours. But there are some weeks when I can't get up there. Not been up for a week now because of other commitments and the weather. Hopefully after Easter I'll be able to spend a bit longer up there. Think it's just a case of pacing yourself, and being realistic about what you can do in the time you have. I always go up with the sole intention of digging at least 1 bed. If I can do more, great. If not, there's always another day.
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In 2004 I took on a half plot which hadn't had anything done on it in years. It had had subsoil dumped on it to such an extent it was hard clay in places. It took me all summer to clear it and get it into shape so I could grow something worthwhile. In 2006, the time I had to spend on the lottie to keep it running and productive was minimal and not enough to keep me busy - so I took a second full size lottie on in another village in Feb last year. I cleared enough of it (2/3rds) by April to get a good season out of it last year, and will clear the rest this year.
I work full time and now even with two lotties which are a good 6 miles apart I only spend a few hours a week - more in spring but virtually nothing in winter. The small amount of time I do spend there just about keeps me sane and lets me forget about work and the stresses that brings. I get miserable when I can't get out and do a bit of physical work, or sow seeds, or harvest. Everything has its place and time on the plot and nothing seems forced.........apart form the rhubarb that is. LOL ;D
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This is an interesting thread! I've just started and while I'm not underestimating the amount of work I just do a little at a time and break it down into manageable chunks. I've just built my first raised bed and I've dug over another two. I work full time, so I go there when I can, which is about twice a week by myself when I can really go for it and spend maybe two or three hours there and once at the weekends with my daughters. I don't think of it as work, it is pleasure, and that helps.
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absolutely not a clue as i guess it also depends on the persons fitness??? and whether theyve any "help" ive got 2 kids and yes i do want to show them where they food comes from (saves being asked by my 4yr old whos very keen to learn) but i dont see that as being bad???
already weve cleared the "rows" (weed beds) the previous occupant had dug over and made 2 small beds out of the crouch grass (2 nice brown patches in all the green) im no expert and reading all the books in the world is no substitute for speaking to people on here/down the lottie, the people already working the land where you are already know what does/doesnt grow well surely??? and those growing for years would know what seeds work (eg if super cheap lidles r worth it etc) and so on??
the only advice we had when we were given the keys was to take our time and only do what we thought we could cope with, well so far weve a well manured fruit bed complete with a tayberry bush (£1 shop) and the kids have a bit of brown to dig in and generally stomp about on until we have seedlings big enough to plant and thatll survive the weather!! (seeds on theyre bit maybe when weve got some other bits in, theyre too little to not stomp on teeny weeny green bits, theres the vaguest of hopes they wont kill the baby plants... i can but try..) but the point is the kids love it there, i walk there and back (40+mins) with a double pushchair laden with toools kids snacks drinks... try and get 4+ hrs in before trundling home, and try to go at least once a week, not a lot BUT its what we can manage with the weather, i intend to clear the whole plot and cultivate it over the course of the next few months but we will see where we get to, if i can "dispose" of the kids for a few days over half term ill get lots more done, i hope, im also hoping over the summer again weather (ie not piddling it down 24/7) permitting that well spend moree time down there, it is a safely fenced off area of green where children of similar ages to mine like to play while theyre parents tend the plots and with a bit of luck we may just get something edible off it,
if all else fails weve dug the ground over ready for the next person, aparently our crouch grass field was rotivated the yr b4 last and the chap did nothing with it, which doesnt make much sense, but i guess as he didnt do the "work" he didnt feel any pain when it went to weed, i know if the albeit few parts that ive dug so far got overgrown id be mortified, ive invested time and energy in clearing them!!! please dont criticise people for wanting to show theyre kids where theyre food comes from (were not all wearing rose tinted specs, plates and spoons in hand) or for wanting to get fit, i suffer with depression and get stressed out A LOT and always feel much better coming back off the plot, even my 4yr old says he loves it there, and while theres no waiting list for our lotty even if there was i wouldnt feel that i was taking a yr off the hands of some more worthy person!! so judgemental!!! if were enjoying ourselves and not harming it then why on earth not? am i starving someone??? itll realistically takr months maybe years to get it to a state were pleased with and to that end i guess its trial and error, were going for beds for now as we think thatll be easier for the kids to navigate round the plot inspecting greenery and harvesting if as and when we get there, havent a clue if thats high or low maintainance i guess well find out?? havent felt so unwelcome in ages on here!!! :o
oh and lol, re original question, how about we agree on : winter/spring = lots, dig dig dig!!! summer/autumn= not as much "work" but youll want to be there more often :D
and no we dont have a big garden, we live in a tiny terrace with a muddy postage stamp overlooked by trees, trees, oh and just for a change trees, with the "garden" next door full of nettles rubbish and ivy thats taking the walls down... we tried to grow lots of different things last yr but the combo of rain + slugs+ lack of light meant only the antirrhinum (snap dragons so far as im concerned) grew and they only flowered in the pots out the front and not in the borders out the back!!! i cant argue with mother nature now can i???
think maybe u need a debates thread on here??
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Apologies if I was mis-understood. I wasn't criticizing the goal only those who approach it with rose coloured glasses.
I think its safe to say that all those who've responded to this thread, especially the new plot holders and the less experienced, have taken on their plots with at least a degree of knowing what they're letting themselves in for, and I think thats the key.
I too have a full time job and a full time hobby that is nothing to do with vegetables or allotments. I put the effort in in the early spring or late autumn, before our season starts so that I can get away with spending a couple of hours once a fortnight in the summer keeping the plot tidy.
I'd love my kids to take a greater interest, but as with all things they're only interested when they can plant something and hate it when I'm forced to drag them along because my wife is doing something else, and if I don't get down the plot then it won't be ready.
I've grown up with gardening, we were always lucky to have a reasonable garden where ever we lived, and I've grown all sorts of stuff as my interest waxed and waned. Now I grow partly out of necessity and partly because I enjoy it.
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My kids were very excited about it when we first went down, the novelty has worn off a bit now. We take lots of snacks now and tell them to bring a book or their gameboy. My DD was reading to me while I was digging the other day it was great.
My mum has a huge garden and when I was young we got most of our veg from the garden it was great, I think if you grow up with it it makes you more keen, you know what you are getting. I hope my children will grow up and want to grow their own veg.
Like has been said before it doesn't matter if there are a few holes in the cabbage or they are all uneven shapes.
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thanks to everyone who expressing their views, and particularly to those who provided some hard figures.
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This thread has really made me think about an allotment. I have always said I could't do it. I have ME & hibernate when the weather is hot. Perhaps with OHs help it would be possible to have a half plot.
We are going to have a veg garden this year. Perhaps that will give us an idea of where we want to go. Does anyone know what the waiting lists are like within the Macclesfield Borough.
Janet.
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I have just read the comments on how much time is taken up. I am very lucky, where we live its quite rural and with the houses comes an allotment at the back of our gardens. I think that there is a load of work to do but for me it is a good way to just take my time and get away from the stresses of life.
I commute into London everyday and have a very stressful job. I have been planning out my allotment on the train for a while now but did not have the time to start with the clear up. I now have time to commit as I am not so busy at work. For me one of the main reasons I am doing this is my step daughter when asked where potatoes come from said the supermarket!
It also gives us very good quality time together. Its our project. I love the physical side of stuff as well. Believe me as a newbie I am prepared to put the work in. I was brought up on an estate in North London and have worked very very hard to get to a place where I can have an allotment.
I was a bit disappointed to read that "these days newbies want everything on a plate... " that seems unfair to me.. Iam sorry to get in the ring here but that did not sit right with me. Also when it was suggested that all we want to do is throw money at it as well. What I have enjoyed is sticking to the idea that I will not buy any wood, no manure, (there is a farmers field behind me), no nails no nothing except seeds and stuff. Ive really enjoyed that, its taken me back to when I was younger and starting out. I love the fact that I cant pass a skip now with out have a poke about.
I am going to continue to ask basic questions because I thought this forum was about that and when I can pass on some help I will be doing that as well. By the way does anyone know anything about sheep manure as there is a pile near my allotment and I read somewhere that it can burn up the soil.
Cheers Dale
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By the way does anyone know anything about sheep manure as there is a pile near my allotment and I read somewhere that it can burn up the soil.
Cheers Dale
The myriad of benefits for using sheep manure;
Natural slow release fertiliser
Can be used as an organic mulch
Low odour
Easy to handle
Relatively inexpensive
Lower in nitrogen than other manures yet still high in Phosphorous and Potassium - great for plant growth
Depending on the source can be obtained weed free
Lauren
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa42/ElleEss_photos/TwoSheep.jpg)
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Thanks for that Lauren I will use sheep manure its in abundance where I am. When I see the farmer I will ask him.
Dale
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I couldn't agree more with bluehousehill. I'm a newbie, and no, I'm not going to throw money at my allotment, one of the aspects that attracted me to it was the recycling aspect of it, using old bits to make new ones. So far I've only spent £27 and I've been on it a month, that was to get scaffolding wood. My friend has offered me her shed, and I'm always scrounging. Also, what's work? You either want to do it or you don't. I go there when I can, and I plan to enjoy it.
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It depends on so many factors. I admit that i do not spend nearly as much time on the lot as I should, but I don't really have a social life down there either so I go, do the work and come home. It is a couple of minutes' walk from home.
Last year being first year, there was all the digging etc, all the crop failures which were hard to deal with, etc. This year I know what worked, so I am using this system: dig over and cover with tarps the next plot you want to plant e.g. i did that with onions, now the spuds have the same treatment. That way the digging over and planting are not on the same day. I plant then dig over the next bed, e.g. this weekend the first earlies spuds go in, the tarp will go on the root veg bed that I will dig once I plant the spuds etc etc.
Mulch where possible. It cuts down on weeding.
Grow some things on plastic, like strawbs, courgettes etc. It cuts down oin weeding.
Do one task at a time, e.g one weekend if the fruit bed is looking tatty, really give it a good going-over and just leave the rest or give the urgent things attention.
When you take out a crop, e.g. cabbages, really dig over the ground and manure it if possible (if appropriate) and DON'T WALK ON IT. I never walk on the plots and I left them all dug up over winter, now they are soft and crumbly.
My plot is : grassy and weedy in some areas, crops are not all in beautifully neat rows, squares etc, only just getting some decent paths in now after a year (it does look better with them). I do not have nice wooden raised beds, or edges. It is 5 x 20 m and I work alone.
In winter I spend a minimum of time, but at least 3 hours a week in autumn digging over. In summer about 4 hours a week, but not all at once (2 hours on the weekend then small periods during the week, before or after work). In spring, there is work indoors for the seedlings because I don't have a greenhouse, but I guess I don't count that ;)
I think what I do is the minimum you can get away with.
The important thing is to enjoy it, grow what you want to eat, it's not a tragedy if you don't go one day or don't do what you wanted to do, even if the plot neighbours look askance at you, sod 'em. A little effort regularly can go a long way, and sometimes I just put my foot down and put in a 4-5 hour spurt or take a day over the holidays and that tidies it up for the next while. Once the things start growing, you feel much better than looking at the empty plot in February with a mournful sigh ;D
BUT AN HOUR A WEEK WON'T CUT IT I AM AFRAID!!!!!!
Good luck to one and all
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Remember what they say about shoes in the shop window that don't have a price; if you need to ask how much they are you can't afford them!! Lance
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I started my plot last year in April and was lucky that about a quarter of it had been dug the previous year and some more had weed suppressing stuff on it. With son no. 2 in playgroup only1 morning my predictable commitment was about 2 hours a week. I did about double this (with evenings) for a couple of months to get going and after the initial effort had about a third to half the plot in cultivation by the end of the year.
I guess what I'm trying to say is you have to be realistic about what you can achieve with the time you can commit. In school holidays I also got behind with the weeding but hey - on an allotment it doesn't have to be immaculate! The oldies on the site were only too happy to have someone persisting as so many plots are virtually abandoned.
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After nearly three years on my plot, and working full time in London (hence no evenings available until high summer), I've got it down to a fine art. I do what I reasonably can, and see it as a long-term project. It won't be how I originally imagined it for a couple of years yet, because I have never had the time to dig it all over all at once.
Every weekend that I can, I get up there for about three hours a day, a bit less when it's very cold and a bit more when it's nice and warm. After that I want to go off and do other things. Sometimes I go away for one or both of those days, so it gets left, but I try not to go away too much in the spring. If by May I clearly won't get it all under cultivation the way I wanted it, I'll cover some of the "beds" in black weed suppressant and plant through them - or not - meaning that it's not getting any worse and it's not head high in weeds, annoying the neighbours. Parts of the plot have never properly been tackled, just brought a bit more under control.
It's a bit harsh on people like me to hear from those who clearly have a lot more time on their hands telling me how I "should" be doing it. I can't do it your way and have a life, and I have no intention of giving my plot up because it's not pristine. I'll get there in the end and I'm quite happy with it looking a bit scruffy and not always producing everything I wanted it to produce. I think one of the reasons newbies give up is the pressure they put on themselves, trying to have a plot looking like it does when you have no full-time job when you can only squeeze a few hours out of the week. I have a lot of things to balance in my very full life; the allotment is an important part of it but by no means 20 hours a week's worth.
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IT'S NOT HOW MUCH EFFORT YOU PUT INTO A ALLOTMENT IT TAKES TIME TO GET THE RESULT YOU WAN'T.I AM DOWN ON MINE 7 DAYS A WEEK BETWEEN 2 AND 8 HOURS A DAY WHAT TAKES TIME IS GETTING EVERYTHING IN THE GROUND TO GROW.AND LOOKING AT THE RESULT WHEN IT COMES TO PICKING TIME.AND NOT TO FORGET MY CHICKENS TO CLEAN OUT WHICH TAKES 1 HOUR EVERY WEEK AND FEED AND COLLECT THE EGGS I HAVE 18 HENS TO LOOK AFTER ALL EX-BATTERY HENS.
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seems to have been a fairly emotive subject this one so I'll chuck in my 2 pennies worth :)
We have a small shared plot (about a third of a full one) which was covered in black plastic when we took it on. Over the course of 6 weeks from end of Feb to mid April we got it cleared and there was only one corner of it that was bad with bindweed. Then it was just a case of planting things and making sure it was weeded. We got loads of beans, beetroot and potatoes as we as various other bits and bobs.
Sure, there was a lot of effort to start with, but after that it was more maintaining what was there.
Then we got offered our new plot... 6 foot high in brambles for a third of its length, and the rest was bindweed and couch grass.
9 months later, and one end of it looks about as good as our original plot did. Maybe with more effort we could have cleared more, but its covered, and with time it will get sorted out.
The point I am slowly dragging myself towards is that you have 2 factors to consider:
Effort and time:
If you go to your plot and work like a dervish for 2 hours, then you will get just as much done as spending 6 hours there messing about picking through weeds, talking with other plot holders and enjoying yourself.
There is no quick fix for getting a ruined plot looking good, well short of getting a JCB in to remove the top 2 foot and then getting 500 tons of free John Innes compost, but thats not going to happen.
It will take effort, and it will take time. Obviously the more of both you put in, the faster you will reach your goal, and if you put neither in, then nature will beat you hands down. :)
The way I look at it, its not a race. Some days you go down and achieve a fair bit in a short time, other days you can go down for 3 hours and not really do very much.
Regarding the financial element, between us we had a gym membership that was close to £100 a month, thats been knocked on the head fairly sharpish so it doesn't bother me if I spend £10 and build a raised bed for the plot.
Somewhere in there is a point... ;D
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How nice does it have to look anyway? I thought the whole point was to enjoy it and grow something.
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hi
i'm anne
i'm new to this forum
i am currently on the waiting list for an allotment.
i realise this will be hard work and am under no illusion regarding that,
i am a busy mum to 6 children,
the youngest three being 5,4 and almost 3.
i thought it'd be a good idea to show them where their food comes from,
they all like veg and last summer i had to keep a close eye on them as they were eating leaves from the garden thinking they were lettuce,
i think it will be good for both me and the kids
and will look forward to advice from people who know what they're doing
anne
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hiya, anne, welcome to the site, sounds like your kids are going to have a wonderful time, hope you get a plot soon ;D