Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: valentinelow on January 08, 2008, 11:14:36
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I am trying to decide which squash to grow this year, and would be keen to hear from anyone out there who has an opinion. In particular, I am thinking of some buttercup squash (Real Seeds do a variety called Burgess Vine). What are their eating/storing qualities?
This year we grew Marina di Chioggia (terrific flavour, but as far as storage goes it won't last much longer), Uchiki Kuri (lovely) and Blue Ballet (a tiny bit disappointing, although it might have been my cooking technique: I have a couple more to go, and might revise my opinion after eating those. They are beautiful, though).
If Jeannine is out there, this post is of course aimed particularly at her: she is the undisputed Queen of the Squash...
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While you wait for Jeannine ,My fave is a summer squash 'Zephyr', real nutty goodness.
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Again Jeannine is best for squash advice. But thought I would pass on my experiences of last year. :)
This year though I grew i plant of each of the following: Napoli di Gigantes which grew like mammoth courgettes (20lb the largest one) with orange flesh - but they don't store well. I also wasn't sure of the taste but my brother in aw (squash soup king) thought they were very good. He roasts the squash before making soup I don't which could be the difference.
Golden Delicious - again I had one "normal" sized fruit and one mega fruit. They were medium storers the large one we ate, the small one is still keeping well. I did think these lived up to their name but were not as good as the Australian Blue Crown Prince which is my favourite squash. We have three fuits of these and as they store so well along with Turks Turban and Black futsu will be the last to be eaten.
Black futsu by the way gave brilliant tasting immature fruits when we had run out of summer in October!
I did grow butternut squash but frankly was disappointed with the flavour.
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I quite like the Potimarron types, the smallish round dark orange type, they keep quite well I have found, perhaps not the whole winter but a few weeks. They have terrific flavour and make for nice mash or roasting flesh.
Also Jap pumpkin is great for flavour but I don't know how easy it is to get here...
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Hi,
I've grown Real Seed's burgess for a couple of years and it's great geasting, also stores relatively well. My favourite though for flavour has been Seeds of Italy's Berrettina Piacentina - http://www.seedsofitaly.co.uk/product/225 (http://www.seedsofitaly.co.uk/product/225). Tastes better and keeps longer as well - only problem is you cannot save their seeds.
Real Seed's Butternut is also amazing.
Vaca
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One I have grow is Jaspee de Vendee (very like butternut) ... terrific taste even better keeper. Makes terrific soup ;D it's quite sweet too so I imagine it would make great pie :D
... have a few seeds if you want to try a couple?
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I grew 'red kuri' and they taste lovely and also keep well. Jeannine sent me the seeds. I didn't grow other squash, and neither did the other allotments around me, so there should not be any cross pollination. I have saved the seeds. If you would like some, I would be happy to send you a few in the post.
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I didn't grow other squash, and neither did the other allotments around me, so there should not be any cross pollination.
How about courgettes? were these grown anywhere near the squash? as they will cross pollinate as well.
Vaca
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My absolute favourite two are Delicata Sugarloaf and then the Kuri. I am not a lover of Butternuts, Turks Turban I would personally class as an ornamental, you can eat it if course, but there are so many others with a better taste. I also am not keen on the spaghetti squashes.
I think it depends on what you like.
I like sweet almost nutty flavour to squash, with a dry firm flesh that is not stringy, I want it to puree down to the texture of cream.
I am also not a big fan of most of the courgettes or summer squash, but they do serve a different purpose. Crookneck summers have a more defined taste though.
If you like courgettes, chances are you will like spaghetti squash, it lacks the flavour that I like and is much less dry, more like a marrow.
For pumpkins, well I grow many, mostly for decoration, I do make pumpkin pie but I only use a few varieties of pumpkin to do that, most lack flavour and texture however with sufficient seasonings they can make a good soup.
For others that suit my taste, most of of the Japanese are excellent like Futsu and Chirimen but not Toonas Makino, all of the Delicata types, egSweet Dumpling, Sugar loaf,the potimarron family ( tastes like chestnuts) the buttercups, Triamble,Musqee ge Provence, the Australian blues especially Jarrahdale and Crown or Crown Prince, the bananas especially Blue, Marina de Choggia . Some of the acorns eg Thelma Saunders, and I love jack be Little Pumpkins and for pies Small Sugar or Sugar Pie
Not for eating I would say, most of the large pumpkins, keep them for carving,especially the Cinderella AKA Rouge Vif d'Etampes,(beautiful to look at though) the turbans, some of the cheese family,most are purely decorative the exception here is Musquee de Provence which is a delight to eat.
However having said all that my advice is to grow and compare, I grow different ones each year, some make it into the kitchen a second time some don't, squash are a bit like sweetcorn, some are very sweet some are not, some folks find the very sweet ones a bit OTT, but others would say the rest are starchy and bland.
I love 'em all in one way ot another.
Hope this helps.
By the way you can grow different ones together , as long as you remain aware of the families they fall into, and like families they are different but loved by somebody.
XX Jeannine
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?? Vaca. Why can't you keep piacentina seeds?XX Jeannine
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My fave is a summer squash 'Zephyr', real nutty goodness.
Cheers, mfr, I'm trying that one this season!
;D
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Thanks for all the brilliant advice everybody - and for the seed offers. If I want to take any of you up on your offers I will send a PM.
Being a feather-brained idiot, the one thing I did not say in my original message was why I was looking for another squash to grow. It's because, while squashes like Marina di Chioggia are wonderful to eat, they can be on the large side. Once you have cut open a squash you have to have about four squash meals in one week if you want to eat it before it starts going off. I thought buttercup might be a bit smaller.
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?? Vaca. Why can't you keep piacentina seeds?XX Jeannine
I was under the impression that it's an F1 hybrid. I checked the seed packet and it doesn't mention it so perhaps it's not... I never took the chance though.
Vaca
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My absolute favourite two are Delicata Sugarloaf and then the Kuri. I am not a lover of Butternuts, Turks Turban I would personally class as an ornamental, you can eat it if course, but there are so many others with a better taste. I also am not keen on the spaghetti squashes.
I think it depends on what you like.
I like sweet almost nutty flavour to squash, with a dry firm flesh that is not stringy, I want it to puree down to the texture of cream.
I am also not a big fan of most of the courgettes or summer squash, but they do serve a different purpose. Crookneck summers have a more defined taste though.
If you like courgettes, chances are you will like spaghetti squash, it lacks the flavour that I like and is much less dry, more like a marrow.
For pumpkins, well I grow many, mostly for decoration, I do make pumpkin pie but I only use a few varieties of pumpkin to do that, most lack flavour and texture however with sufficient seasonings they can make a good soup.
For others that suit my taste, most of of the Japanese are excellent like Futsu and Chirimen but not Toonas Makino, all of the Delicata types, egSweet Dumpling, Sugar loaf,the potimarron family ( tastes like chestnuts) the buttercups, Triamble,Musqee ge Provence, the Australian blues especially Jarrahdale and Crown or Crown Prince, the bananas especially Blue, Marina de Choggia . Some of the acorns eg Thelma Saunders, and I love jack be Little Pumpkins and for pies Small Sugar or Sugar Pie
Not for eating I would say, most of the large pumpkins, keep them for carving,especially the Cinderella AKA Rouge Vif d'Etampes,(beautiful to look at though) the turbans, some of the cheese family,most are purely decorative the exception here is Musquee de Provence which is a delight to eat.
However having said all that my advice is to grow and compare, I grow different ones each year, some make it into the kitchen a second time some don't, squash are a bit like sweetcorn, some are very sweet some are not, some folks find the very sweet ones a bit OTT, but others would say the rest are starchy and bland.
I love 'em all in one way ot another.
Hope this helps.
By the way you can grow different ones together , as long as you remain aware of the families they fall into, and like families they are different but loved by somebody.
XX Jeannine
Excellent info and advice - thanks!
My experience of pumpkins is limited to the few I saw/ate growing up - red and green hubbard squash, boerpampoen (near as I can work out, a type of 'cheese' pumpkin), gem squash and butternut.
I have not strayed far beyond these basic types, though there is a nondescript looking flat pumpkin available at markets here sometimes that does taste divine - has a light brown skin, much the same colour as butternut, but is flat (cheese type again). Haven't a clue what it is though.
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Sugarloaf is considerably smaller, I use one for 3 people.
I should correct something in my post above too. I said especially Jarradale, I should have said except. It is not one I personally rate very high for my taste.
Acorns on the whole are small, Jack be Little pumpkin is excellent and feeds 1 decent appetite or half each for two.
I can give you more specific weights or sizes if you tell me the variety you are thinking of growing.
XX Jeannine
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Vaca, those seeds are definately not hybrids, it is a very old Italian variety XX Jeannine
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Yes, I'm hoping to get my squash going again this year. Last summer was awful because I was pregnant and just not able to get down to the lottie.
I liked the big ones we grew (one was a warty horror, can't remember the name) the year before last, but I think the smaller ones are easier to handle. I'm going to try Crown Prince this year, even though it's not very small. It makes nice soup tho. Jack Be Little will be on my list as well. Liked Musquee de Provence and it was fairly prolific as I recall.
I'm with Jeannine. They are all wonderful in their own way... :) can't wait for this season!
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it might be better not to ask what the best squash is for taste, but which squash is most likely to survive if we have a summer like last year. All my winter squash plants gave up the ghost except for 1 red kuri plant
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Hey Roo Thrash!!, Mine would have had to swim or hide last year. I lost the first planting of 60 different varieties to vandals, then the second of 88 different varieties to floods which lay on the ground for a month!!
All my babies perished except one which was in a greenhouse on a bench, so I got 2 Jack be Littles the size of a small egg.
Ho Ho the fun of growing!!
Roll on this next season.
XX Jeannine
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Of course we could try planting ones that could swim or be exceptionally tough, off the top of my head how about ...
Alligator
Ironclad
Mammoth Whale
Hercules
That is as far as my thinking goes..come on now..Switch to watermelons maybe.
XX Jeannine
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I know Jeannine, I can still remember reading your post about the vandalism last year.
And then the floods. Maybe we'll have locusts this year
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Vaca, those seeds are definately not hybrids, it is a very old Italian variety XX Jeannine
Thanks for that! it's good to know :D
Vaca
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After a disappointing 2007 on the squash front Galeaux d`ey sines came up trumps for me ( gifted to my wife by Jeannine). Great flavour,firm texture for roasting and soup alike and good storing capabilities.If anyone would like to try growing some this year i have some seed to spare.PM your details and i`ll pop them in the post
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My absolute favourite two are Delicata Sugarloaf and then the Kuri. I am not a lover of Butternuts, Turks Turban I would personally class as an ornamental, you can eat it if course, but there are so many others with a better taste. I also am not keen on the spaghetti squashes.
I think it depends on what you like.
I like sweet almost nutty flavour to squash, with a dry firm flesh that is not stringy, I want it to puree down to the texture of cream.
I am also not a big fan of most of the courgettes or summer squash, but they do serve a different purpose. Crookneck summers have a more defined taste though.
If you like courgettes, chances are you will like spaghetti squash, it lacks the flavour that I like and is much less dry, more like a marrow.
For pumpkins, well I grow many, mostly for decoration, I do make pumpkin pie but I only use a few varieties of pumpkin to do that, most lack flavour and texture however with sufficient seasonings they can make a good soup.
For others that suit my taste, most of of the Japanese are excellent like Futsu and Chirimen but not Toonas Makino, all of the Delicata types, egSweet Dumpling, Sugar loaf,the potimarron family ( tastes like chestnuts) the buttercups, Triamble,Musqee ge Provence, the Australian blues especially Jarrahdale and Crown or Crown Prince, the bananas especially Blue, Marina de Choggia . Some of the acorns eg Thelma Saunders, and I love jack be Little Pumpkins and for pies Small Sugar or Sugar Pie
Not for eating I would say, most of the large pumpkins, keep them for carving,especially the Cinderella AKA Rouge Vif d'Etampes,(beautiful to look at though) the turbans, some of the cheese family,most are purely decorative the exception here is Musquee de Provence which is a delight to eat.
However having said all that my advice is to grow and compare, I grow different ones each year, some make it into the kitchen a second time some don't, squash are a bit like sweetcorn, some are very sweet some are not, some folks find the very sweet ones a bit OTT, but others would say the rest are starchy and bland.
I love 'em all in one way ot another.
Hope this helps.
By the way you can grow different ones together , as long as you remain aware of the families they fall into, and like families they are different but loved by somebody.
XX Jeannine
Jeannine, you are an absolute marvel! I've learned so much from your writings in just a few short weeks, and really look forward to reading your posts. I hope to post later with some specific questions about squashes when I have more time to spare, if you don't mind.
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Hi, thank you for the lovely compliment but please bear in mind that taste is a very personal thing, and of course I will help if I can. XX Jeannine
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Does anyone have any advice on storing winter squashes please and are some varieties better than others for keeping?
In 2006 I had Butternut and Hubbard but by early January they had gone soft.
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Crown Prince keeps very well, we have kept them until the end of May in a brick shed.
;D
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Crown Prince keeps very well, we have kept them until the end of May in a brick shed.
;D
I can only find Crown prince as an F1, is it available as an open-pollinated variety?
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Does anyone have any advice on storing winter squashes please ...
I store squash by putting them into breathable bags and hanging them from hooks in my shed which is just about frost free. By breathable, I mean string bags, also cheap type canvas bags, also onion nets, anything like that. Have also found that Crown Prince is a good keeper, and Marina di Choggia seems fine so far.
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Should be left on the vine as long as possible even if the vine looks dead, but grab them before a frost.
Immature fruits don't store as long as those fully mature
Leave length of stalk on them and don't use it as a handle,a lot of problems are caused if the squash is broken off without. Better to cut them.
Wash them if muddy, then wipe down with mild solution of bleach and water, about 1 parts bleach to 10 parts water is fine.
Store in a cool dry place, not on concrete and preferably not touching. I use wood slatted shelves. Best temp for storage is about 50f, but they will go less, they will not keep as long though. A cool shed is good as there will be some humidity there too.
Hubbards store longest,(5-6 months) Acorns shortest (5-8 weeks) Butternut, Buttercups about 2-3 months. Spaghetti depends on the type but usually about 2 months.
Humidity and temp will affect the length of storage as will the level of maturity when put into store.
I have had squash store longer than above, this is just a guide.
Pumpkins need to be cured before storage about 2 weeks in 80f.
Hope this helps. XX Jeannine
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Rob, Crown Prince is only one of the Prince lot, they are not all hybrids, look up Crown,Improved Crown, Select Crown. They are all part of the Australian blue group as are Triamble, Queensland Blue and Jarrahdale, however I have to say I don't think the Triamble has as good as flavour, the others do though .
XX Jeannine
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Thanks very much for your replies which are very helpful. I put mine in expanded polystyrene boxes and then placed them in old kitchen cupboards in our shed. They obviously didn't have enough air circulation but I wanted to protect them from the heavy frosts that we get.
One year I did try putting marrows in nets and hanging them up in the shed but I went in there to find an awful mess on the floor.
It sounds a good idea washing them down with a solution of diluted bleach Jeannine. Do you use Milton? Do the squash require light whilst being stored? I could put them on some slatted shelves away from the north facing shed window but it would be quite a bit darker.
All I need now is to be able to grow some this year so let us hope we have better weather than 2007 when I had a total squash disaster though did manage a few courgettes.
I will have to make sure that I include Crown Prince and Hubbard in my attempts this year.
Your help in this matter is much appreciated.
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Rob, Crown Prince is only one of the Prince lot, they are not all hybrids, look up Crown,Improved Crown, Select Crown. They are all part of the Australian blue group as are Triamble, Queensland Blue and Jarrahdale, however I have to say I don't think the Triamble has as good as flavour, the others do though .
XX Jeannine
Thanks, Jeannine.
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Pauline, mine are in a shed with a window, light seems not to matter as far as I know. I use regular bleach. I should have said Pumpkins have to be cured and squash benefit from it..don't bother curing acorns.
Also that they will gradually lose moisture , they don't always go soggy, I have kept a squash a very long time, but after a year or so they are really dehydrated.
You can use them when they start to soften by the way, but not once they start to decay. Softening is the first sign that thay are on their way out,you can still freeze them or puree or make them into pie filling and freeze that. Like a melon that is a bit soft you can use it but it won't last much longer or it will start to spoil.It is like anything else it becomes a judgement call.
Also don't let the word pumpkin in the name fool you, not all is as it sounds and it gets very complicated.
I even have a summer squash that is called a pumpkin, and of course it would not store.
XX Jeannine
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Thanks Jeannine, very useful information. :D
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By the way you can grow different ones together , as long as you remain aware of the families they fall into, and like families they are different but loved by somebody.
XX Jeannine
Hi am bumping this thread as it has so much useful info for the novice (read me) :-[ :)
One question I have is about the different varieties of pumpkins, squash, winter squash etc. Is there a list of the families / varities?
Thanks
1066
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Hi 1066
Jeannine goes some way to listing the groups in her long post on here and I know she has done a very in-depth post elsewhere on A4all. She also recommended this book
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php?page=10
which I have found very useful, it has lots of info on varieties, growing and cooking of squash.
I wish I had time to look for her post on the different groups, perhaps if you look in the search function, the trouble is she has posted on squash so many times, bless her, that it may be a bit hard to find.
There is a bit of info here:
http://www.pumpkinnook.com/howto/variety.htm
Good luck
T.
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Oh dear, the link only takes you to the front page of the A4all shop although I had found the book, try this one...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h_?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=compleat+squash
It's a bit expensive but maybe your library might have it. I will keep looking for more info.
T.
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Thanks for the links and info Tulipa.
I had read Jeannine's post with great interest and it seems to list a lot of pumpkin families - but I'm presuming - no disrespect to Jeannine (the Pumpkin Queen ;D ) that it isn't a full list. And now I've confused myself reading that great link to pumpkinnook - they list Moschata, Pepo and Maxima. But Jeannine lists Japanese, Delicata, Buttercups, Potimarron, Ausie Blues, Bananas, Turbans, Cheese, Acorns. And I'm not sure what is what now!!!!
The book does look interesting - I'll give the local library a go (not very hopeful tho) and when I'm next in brighton I'll pop into 1 of the big bookshops there and have a good read of whatever they have (a free read obviously).
Its a fascinating subject and veggie - just want to learn more really :)
Once again thanks Tulipa
1066
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Jeannines list you quoted is varietys not familys
lbb
for example Blue Hubbard is from the family C. maxima as is Buttercup
Waltham Butternut is a C. moschata
Cushaws are C. mixta
and
Delicata is a C. pepo
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Jeannines list you quoted is varietys not familys
lbb
Exactly - I'm totally confused as to which belongs to which!!!!!!!!!??????????
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ok which do you want to grow and
do you want to save seeds from your fruits?
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Tulipa - I think I found the post - called Gourds & Squash Difference -
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,35076.0.html
(hope it works)
LBB - trying lots of different varieties, and as it turns out Families this year ;D partly for fun and partly to figure out which ones I kike for taste etc. As we have a lottie and the garden we have a fair bit of room and was going to try 2/3 seeds of each -
Cornell's Bush Delicata and Little Gem Rollet (did these last year as well
Burgess Buttercup - Maxima family?
Queensland Blue - ?
Small Sugar - ?
Crown Prince ?
Yellow Scallop - Pepo family
Anna Swartz Hubbard - Maxima family?
Zucca Marina Di Choggia - ?
Blue Kuri - Mixta family?
So I'm going to be busy! And loads to learn about a really interesting veggie
Thanks
1066
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1066 sorry to bug you about this but are you going to be saving your seeds?
lbb
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No probs lbb - I appreciate all the help I can get!
The seeds I have this year are shop bought, but yes I would like to try and save some seeds for next year. I guess its all about cross pollination then? So how far apart should "family groups" be planted?
Sooooo much to learn and not enough brain power today!
1066
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Personally I think you're making the right choice growing the Burgess. Buttercups have the best flavour and texture (superior to Crown Prince which i consider 2nd best). I grow them and they will store to May if you haven't eaten them by then. Obviously some won't make it and you need to check and use any looking like they're going off first.
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Thanks for the thumbs up Kea I'm looking forward to growing some tasty pupkins this year!
OK – after loads of searching and reading I think I’ve figured out the families that the squash / pumpkins I plan to grow belong to, all except 1 Little Gem Rolet - Any ideas people? I will be growing a mixture of pepo and maxima in both the garden and on the allotment. If I want to save some seeds for next year I presume I can’t grow plants from the same families in close proximity. Does anyone know the distances needed between them to prevent cross pollination (none of the ones I will grow are F1s? Or should I give up on the idea of trying to save seed this year and concentrate on working out which ones I like and then can start with fresh seed and fewer varieties (and mixture of families!) next year?
Thanks