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Produce => Recipes => Topic started by: Hyacinth on December 11, 2007, 14:03:41
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I've read several mentions of these recently. I've never used them and for the same reason I don't use meat stock cubes...I shudder to think of the process by which the meat extract is produced....'reclaimed' meat, perhaps?
Anyone know?
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Bisto |Best Gravy granules.
ingredients:
Potato starch, maltodextrin, salt, flavourings (contains milk soya) vegetable oil, colour E150c flavour enhancer E621,E635, Beef extract, emulsifier E322, Soya spice and herb extract, onion extract.
I just put myself off reading that lot. I use it in an emergency.
::) ::)
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I've started keeping a Knorr "pouch" in my cupboard - Chicken veg stock. Doesn't have so many chemical bits in it ( i'm allergic to loads of it) but may not be much better in terms of provenance. works well for me for emergency veg risotto etc.
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I use Kallo Organic chicken vegetable and 'beef flavour' stock cubes. You can get them in Sainsburys. The beef flavour have very little beef in them but the taste seems fine though perhaps a bit close to the vegetable :) Surprisingly, unlike most cubes, salt isn't the first ingredient and there are no artificial additives.
Sorry, no idea about extraction methods.
They do a gravy powder.....
http://www.kallofoods.com/products/stocks-and-gravies/KG81.asp (http://www.kallofoods.com/products/stocks-and-gravies/KG81.asp)
...........but I don't think I've seen it in the shops.
Wouldn't mind another source for them or something similar since we're not close to any sainsburys or waitrose.
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Bisto |Best Gravy granules.
ingredients:
Potato starch, maltodextrin, salt, flavourings (contains milk soya) vegetable oil, colour E150c flavour enhancer E621,E635, Beef extract, emulsifier E322, Soya spice and herb extract, onion extract.
I just put myself off reading that lot. I use it in an emergency.
::) ::)
Essentially Gravy granules are just starch with flavours & colours but as with most commercially produced foods they get all kinds of crap added.
To expand a bit on the ingredients list.
E150c, also known as Ammonia Caramel, is made by controlled heat treatment of hlucose with ammonia.
E621 is better known as the flavour enhancer MSG (MonoSodium Glutamate). Since some people are hypersensitive to it and can suffer palpitations, migraine, nausea and other reactions, it might be wiser to call it that on the packet.
E635 is Sodium 5 Ribonucleotides a mixture of DiSodium Guanylate (E627) extracted from sardines and/or yeast extract & DiSodium Inosinate (E631) extracted from muscle tissue in meat and/or from dried sardines. There have been reports of serious reactions to this additive in some people although the regulatory authorities appear to regard it as safe. However, it is banned in some countries, including Australia. It is now increasingly used in products containing MSG due to it's synergistic effects. For instance a 50/50 mixture of MSG and E635 produces a flavour enhancer 100 times more potent than the same amount of MSG alone so the manufacturer can halve the MSG content but still produce an identical tasting product.
E322 is Lecithin. Commercial Lecithin mostly comes from soya bean oil which may be GM.
Beef extract is prepared by concentrating in vacuum kettles the clear broth obtained from cooking beef flesh. It could have used almost any parts of the animal that had flavour.
Ordinarily that would not include cartilage, ligaments, and or tendon tissue
because these components contain very little fat. Any residual muscle tissue
containing at least a trace of fat would do because the flavor of meat is
largely borne in the fat.
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Best use Marmite - totally veggie!!
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yummy my mate, marmite :)
also, bovril went veggie for a while- it's back to having real beefin it now tho but might still be available in tiny shops...
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I think Marmite is a rip-off,considering it's nothing more than a waste product of the brewing industry, with (lots of) added salt. Yes I like it but not at that price.
Geoff.
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Surprisingly, unlike most cubes, salt isn't the first ingredient and there are no artificial additives.
Should have read the other way round! i.e. "Surprisingly like most cubes salt is still the first ingredient but there are no artificial additives"
Sorry :(
No artificial ingredients or E numbers in the gravy powder either.
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I think Marmite is a rip-off,considering it's nothing more than a waste product of the brewing industry, with (lots of) added salt. Yes I like it but not at that price.
Geoff.
Unilever make a fortune producing it the breweries pay them to take the waste yeast away, salt is used to trigger autolysis, then the dying yeast are heated to complete their breakdown, the husks are sifted out giving them yeast extract. They sell some of this yeast extract to Jacobs bakery (part of the Danone group) to flavour twiglets then they add colouring, flavouring & vitamins & get to charge extortianate prices for the finished product.
It shouldn't be that difficult to make it yourself assuming you brew your own beer so you have access to the main ingredient. You would have to experiment with different herb/spice combinations to get the right taste.
Alternately this recipe for homemade Marmite is supposed to be quite good, I can't vouch for it myself as i can't stand the stuff.
1/2 tsp molasses
1 Tbs rice syrup
1 tsp Better Than Bouillon (bouillon paste), vegetable flavor
2 Tbs nutritional yeast flakes (or 1 Tbs powder)
Mix all ingredients well.
Store in a small jar in fridge.
NOTE: If Better Than Bouillon is not available, use miso.
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Hi Baccy Man,
Where do you buy the "Better than Bouillon"?
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I rarely use it but one of the local deli's usually has it in stock knorr does their own version of bouillon paste too or if you know someone with a cash & carry card you can buy bouillon paste in bulk very cheaply.
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Thank you ever such a lot for your input, everyone, and a special thanks to BaccyMan - knew you'd all add knowledge 8)....I'm now off to google a few words I haven't a clue about....so I'm now going outside - and I may be some time ;D
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we use organic bouillon, my son says be careful, they have lots of salt in :(
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Yes Baccyman, thanks for all the detail. Great stuff, I love the scientific and technical side. I do brew my own beer as it happens, so who knows what i might end up with?
Geoff.
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I think Marmite is a rip-off,considering it's nothing more than a waste product of the brewing industry, with (lots of) added salt. Yes I like it but not at that price.
Geoff.
Like Marmite. I am a product of Burton upon Trent, and I love the stuff.
I've just been looking at the labels on the jars I have in the cupboard, and it no longer says 'made in Burton upon Trent' on the front. That's probably due to the fact that there are virtually no breweries left in Burton, but no idea where it is made. Probably like HP sauce, been transferred to 'elsewhere in the EU'.
valmarg
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My mother would disown me if I used gravy granules!
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ditto ;D
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Baccy-Man strikes again ;D you never cease to amaze me with your food knowledge and always interesting stuff thank you. For anyone who likes marmite try this one
A jar of Tahini ( I use the light)
equal weight of MISO ( there are lots of miso out there-wheat,barley- some much stronger than others,keep trying different ones until you find the one that suits your tastebuds best)
mix well together until shiny, may need a little hot water added to soften
place in jars or whatever and keep re fridgerated until used.
Lovely on toast and goeswith beans on toast much better than butter.
a lot healthier no added salt and suits my taste buds much better than Marmite - what do you think BaccyMan worth a try?
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Meat juices, thickened with a roux or cornflour and if you must a wee bit of gravy browning for colour,,,,,,,,,,gravy granules.........why? are they better/easier Can someone enlighten me please XX Jeannine
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Jeannine with gravy granules you add hot water then stir, it is a slightly faster way of making gravy although the taste doesn't come close to a proper home made gravy. Many people have grown up with Bisto™ which has been around since 1908 therefore it is what they are used to or they think it is difficult to make gravy so they simply don't try, if they do make it and find out how quick and simple it is & how much better it tastes they don't buy gravy granules again.
Susiebelle if that recipe suits your taste then thats all that counts, it would certainly taste different to marmite as you are basing it on sesame rather than yeast. If you bought some cheap yeast extract from a healthfood shop you would just need to flavour it to produce your own marmite it would be an option for anyone who doesn't brew their own beer or is unsure about how autolysis works.
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Hi BaccyMan - you are right I don't even know what Autolysis is let alone how it works however as a vegetarian Sesame when taken concentrated as in Tahini gives me a good blast of calcium together with all the vitamin B in the Miso gives me a good start to the day, so its a good veggie supplement as well as tasting good.
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Autolysis is essentially the yeast cells self-destructing.
You would start with a yeast solution namely the sludge from the bottom of the beer barrel probably combined with any froth from the top. Adding salt to the yeast solution makes it hypertonic which leads to the yeast cells shrivelling up which in turn triggers a process called autolysis, in which the yeast cells self-destruct rupturing the cell walls in the process. Then the dying yeast cells are heated to complete their breakdown. All you have to do then is separate out the husks (yeast have big thick cell walls which wouldn't do the texture of the marmite much good), and you've got yeast extract, flavour it & you have marmite.
In very simple terms the process goes yeast+salt+heat then filter & flavour = Marmite
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Thank you - that helps
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I should say "you must be in Brewing" hopefully it's of the "Real Ale" kind!
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Hi BaccyMan - you are right I don't even know what Autolysis is
That's what I googled :-[ ;D
All really fascinating stuff 8) and nothing's changed my mind about gravy granules ;D
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I'll just throw in my 2p worth for a vegetarian gravy:
Chop very small
Onion, mushroom, carrot,a litle bit of fresh chilly, anything else you've got hanging around in the fridge
Fry til soft in olive oil or butter
Add water, marmite, soy sauce, miso, tomato ketchup, veg worcester sauce, bit of red wine or sherry
Bubble for a bit then blend with one of those hand mixer things
Thicken with arrowroot.
Make a lot - it keeps for days
Incidentally I've just come across a reduced salt marmite type of thing called Toast Topper, there's a picture of that chef - the hairy one, on the bottle - it's quite nice really...
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Sounds good isbister I'll be trying that this week!
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I'm ignorant isbister,
I didn't know that veggies eat butter?
???
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Meat juices, thickened with a roux or cornflour and if you must a wee bit of gravy browning for colour,,,,,,,,,,gravy granules.........why? are they better/easier Can someone enlighten me please XX Jeannine
My wife is coeliac so no amount of flour will be on the agenda......thats the reason why we use a certain brand of granule that is gluten free
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My wife is coeliac so no amount of flour will be on the agenda......thats the reason why we use a certain brand of granule that is gluten free
Amaranth flour, brown rice flour, buckwheat flour, gram flour, cornflour, millet flour, potato flour, potato starch, quinoa flour, sorghum flour, soya flour and white rice flour are all both gluten & wheat free. There are numerous branded gluten free blended flours available as well. If you check the ingredients on your granules you will probably find they use potato starch but white rice flour is more commonly used in homemade gluten free gravy.
Hi BaccyMan - you are right I don't even know what Autolysis is
That's what I googled :-[ ;D
All really fascinating stuff 8) and nothing's changed my mind about gravy granules ;D
While googling did you spot the connection between yeast extract & MSG?
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While googling did you spot the connection between yeast extract & MSG?
Sorry to barge in. Do you mean its high concentration Baccy Man? Working from memory here, but isn't Parmesan another one? I'm afraid I'm a defender of MSG although I don't use it in any great quantity
Geoff.
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Yes I was referring to the free glutomates.
yeast extract has 1960mg of free glutomates per 100g, parmesan has 1200mg per 100g.
Soy sauce, beef extract, chicken extract, powdered eggs & milk powder are other high ones.
I use msg myself with no ill effects but some people do seem to have reactions to it those people also tend to react to foods with high levels of free glutomates yet they are fine with things which have lower levels like tomatoes 140mg per 100g.
On the other hand people who are very vocal about how bad msg is & how badly they react to it are often fine when they eat foods containing high levels of free glutomates which suggests it is a psychosomatic reaction rather than a real problem in some cases.
As this thread has been concentrating on what is in food I thought I would mention it as everyone seems to have an opinion on msg & anyone who chooses to avoid it should at least be aware of which foods are naturally high in it.
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Tellboy
Vegetarians eat butter, eggs, cheese etc but don't eat flesh
It's vegans who eat no animal products at all
Incidentally piscatarians eat fish and chick-a-ticktarians eat fowl
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I'm ignorant isbister,
I didn't know that veggies eat butter?
???
telboy, why wouldn't we? butter is made from milk and salt. vegans don't, however.
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ooops sorry isbister :(
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....understandable confusion, when even 'vegetarians' argue the issue about dairy products - it comes up from time to time on the Beeb Veggie MB. Think that the argument for non-dairy consumption is that milk production is a direct result of cruelty to a cow (& its offspring, in one way or another!) in the first instance, then on-going cruelty to the animal during its milk producing life, the 'reward' for which is eventual slaughter.
"chick-a-tikka-tarian"?... ;D
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Hey, i got some of these granules, I needed a box to mail something in and begged one from my neighbour , it was a commercail packet that had granules in so she gave ne some of the stuff as well as the box.
I tried them just mixed with water, no ............not nice.
I tried them as a thickener when mixed with juices round a roast added water then the granules and presto they worked great, was much easier than making a roux etc.
Would I use them again..yes. They didn't replace my home made gravy but I would use them for some things and make home made for others.
Thank you for the post, proved the theory that you are never to old to learn something new
XX Jeannine
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I agree, gravy granules are not better Jeanine, I stopped using them a long time ago and make 'proper' gravy. You cant beat the flavour and its so much healthier. I keep lots of 'stock' in the freezer in case its needed.
At least I know what is in it and feel happy to offer it up ;)