Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: Emagggie on December 03, 2007, 20:11:10
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This is an awful tale, ongoing as I type apparently.
My elderly cousin and her husband (both in their 80s) have lived happily in a lovely house in beautiful gardens surrounded by a council park in Sittingbourne, Kent, for many years. Since August this year they have been a target for vandals. They have had huge stones and rocks thrown at their house causing £4000 worth of damage to the roof and windows so far. All efforts to involve the police have proved more or less fruitless as they say they are far too busy. They did send a community officer, but she said she was too scared to go into the park herself, and not to try and catch the vandals as they would end up being prosecuted themselves.
Correspondence with the chief of police for the area has resulted in an acknowledgement and nothing else.
They have made every effort to safeguard their property including cc tv on which they are not allowed to record anything outside their perimeter, where the vandals operate.
I have just had an email from my cousin to say that deep holes have been dug round the boundary hedge. Needless to say it is taking a toll on their health and they don't sleep peacefully at night.
Isn't this a terrible state of affairs? Short of moving in with them I really don't know what to do. They are terrified of repercussions if they take any action. I would like just 15 minutes with each one of the b*st*rds.
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Oh Emaggie I am so sorry to hear about your poor cousin. What is wrong with these people. Trouble is you can do very little to deter them. I recently asked a lad who is about 10 (not in seniour school yet) if he would mind not running across my garden I asked him if he would like it if I did the same to his garden. His sister, no older than 8yrs said "Go on then see if we care"
The estate I live on is very quiet but we are the short cut through to 2 schools so do get problems now and again.
To think that people of your cousins generation have to endure these things is just terrible, and to think that they can get no help from the Police.
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Thanks for that Lorna, now I've 'slept' on it I'm even angrier. What kind of society is it that breeds children who get their sport from antagonising the eldely.....moreover what kind of police force that says ignore them and they'll go away. :( >:(
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Could they contact their MP or the press to try & put some pressure on the police? But maybe they are too scared to do that?
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It must be very distressing for them and a worry to you. Its shocking that the police wont take it seriously; we seem to be breeding a generation of children that think they are above the law. If the police wont do anything then perhaps you should contact the council who owns the park and make some noise there, they must be pesponsible to some degree for safety in the park? It might be an idea to consider approaching the local press.
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Unfortunately the police force we are stuck with, who are no better than the scum WE!! pay them to police with there turn a blind eye approach. >:(
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It's shocking that two elderly people are being put through this and even more shocking that officialdum don't seem to want to step in. What are they there for if not to protect the community? I agree with the suggestion of contacting the park owners (council?) and maybe suggest to them that they get onto the police? Drop some hints here and there about going to your local rag?
I know it's said that violence is never the answer but at this stage I would be talking to someone who 'knows someone' if you get my drift? ;) I'd make sure they wouldn't want to come back for another go.
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I'm even angrier. What kind of society is it that breeds children who get their sport from antagonising the elderly.....moreover what kind of police force that says ignore them and they'll go away. :( >:(
Obviously, a society where there is little or no discipline in schools or at home, parents don't give a t**s, and the justice system is impotent because of all the stupid rules regarding so called "human rights". In other words, we have become far too liberal. Possibly something to do with all the violent video games available too? Even kids games like Sonic and Worms are full of violence.
Bring back short sharp shocks, punishment fitting the crime (including punishing the parents for undisciplined children), especially for violent/armed crimes (death penalty?), and stop pampering those in society who WON'T work, and live off of OUR taxes.
Of course the police have no time to deal with these matters. Every criminal they catch involves them in DAYS worth of paperwork, and motorists are a much easier target.
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Thats so awful :( Unbelievable (or should be) that the police won't help. Would somewhere like Help The Aged be any help do you think? Advice at least, or maybe they could speak to the police for them?
Sadly children and others who do these things know that members of the public can't do anything as then they'd be the ones in trouble.
It's all wrong.
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Perhaps they should contact their MP
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/mpdb/html/519.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/mpdb/html/519.stm)
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Emaggie I'm so sorry to hear of your cousin and husband's ordeal. when we had a recent spate of trouble from the local kids, including them jumping up and down on the roof and bonnet of my car, the police weren't very helpful either. I emailed my local MPs and councillors, one of whom is also the local ASB contact point, and both were superb. immediate response, letters out to all the local residents, local community officers on daily patrols. I realise that what your relatives are going through is quite a lot more serious, particularly as the police seem incapable of doing anything to help, but it's definitely worth trying their local MPs. and as others have said, maybe the local press?
if the vandals are now damaging public/council property, ie digging holes in the ground along the boundary, maybe that's when the local council might legally be able to step in?
it's so tricky to know what to do: you worry that any action you take will only make matters worse and that the vandals will want to take revenge if they've been reported. and so ridiculous that you should have to worry about reporting someone for committing a crime. my heart goes out to you and them :(
do they have any friends with really big scary dogs that could start walking off the lead in the park in the evenings? just as a deterrent, obviously
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I am really sorry to hear about this and can make only two suggestions that might help.
1. Get your cousin to write a letter to her local MP outlining the situation.
2. Contact journalists from the local newspaper (whatever that is) and have it covered in there.
My experience has been that the first option usually generates a response (especially if you are an older person) and the second option usually embarrasses the local law enforcement into doing something.
As to CCTV not being allowed to film beyond the boundary of there property that is just wrong. If they can get good, clear footage of the troublemakers they should forward this to the police, if no action is taken then they should take the route of putting it to the newsdesks, posting it on YouTube and Facebook for maximum exposure.
I don't know what the area is like that they live in but around here very often the worst trouble comes from kids from very well off families whose parents would be mortified if they knew what their little 'darlings' were getting up to.
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They have made every effort to safeguard their property including cc tv on which they are not allowed to record anything outside their perimeter, where the vandals operate.
I also meant to pick up on this too. I work for a security company installing cctv and alarms to both business and domestic property and I'm pretty sure the above is wrong. We install at residental properties who have cameras on their front gates recording the roads/streets outside. Same goes for businesses. What do the police think the cameras on the side of buildings are filming if not what's going on outside of them?!
When my guvnor comes back I will double check some details and get back to you Emaggie.
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Thanks for all your replies. I received this morning from Philip (cousin's husband)a copy of the reply he received from the chief of police's office which states that the matter has been 'passed on' to the area commander and he will deal with it and respond within 20 working days. That was over a month ago, and they have heard nothing. Also a reply from the local MP, who commiserates and says he will bring up the subject at his next meeting with the police in early December. I have told them they are too patient, and to keep making a fuss but they wont for fear of upsetting people!
I did suggest the media, but they are terrified of the repercussions.
As a family, we are sorely tempted to go with the heavies route, but what if they come back and make matters worse.....it doesn't bear thinking about.
The local council (park owners) have made it very plain that they will not be held responsible for damage caused.
I will be interested in what you can tell me SB. I don't know who installed their cc tv but they set it so everything outside the perimeter is blank.
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A few years back we had trouble with kids causing mayhem in the street on a daily basis (banging footballs about, writing on and scratching cars, spitting into peoples gardens, throwing eggs at windows etc etc). A neighbour and I found out where a few of them lived (by following them) and complained to the parents who simply wouldn't believe their offspring could behave like that and ignored us. So then we videod a few hours "play" in which we caught plenty of criminal activity and informed the police, who, armed with evidence and addresses visited teh culprits homes within a couple of days and put them all on a complaints list (whatever that is). It worked. End of problem. At no time was the legality or otherwise of our video called into question. I seem to remember that this video question has something to do with the data protection act, but that if you have grounds to believe that a criminal act is about to occur you are entitled to film or take photos to your hearts content.
I think the key is to make it easy for the police to act...
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maggie, my heart goes out to your cousins, I can't give any practical advice as I'm all for the heavy route myself, after all, there's no cctv in the park, ;)
anonymous heavies, obviously, so's not to cause more problems, maybe with big dogs.give them the fright of their lives >:(
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If you have gone the route of appealing to the Council, the MP and the police then go to the press armed with the letters that they have received showing the heartlessness of the authorities - the gutter press loves stories like that but at least their covering the story generates a response.
As to the council refusing to accept responsibility - speak to a lawyer - I suspect their negligence falls under 'breach of public trust' or some such thing.
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Hi Emaggie,
So sorry to hear about the problems your cousin and her husband are having.
I think it would depend on the age of the vandals that are doing this, sometimes sending in the heavies could make the matter far worse.
If they were my cousins I would go online to their local council and email the Cheif Excutive, complaining about the toal lack of care to their residents and that the council do owe a duty of care to them, and why isn't anything being done.
I would also email on their behalf the local councillor's explaining the situation and asking them to look into the matter of the lack of attention by the police.
If I had no replies, from the Chief Exec or the Councillor's, but I think you will, then I would email them all again saying you are going to take this issue to the press.
I don't think you have anything to lose by emailing them all and maybe you will get something done. I really hope you do as it must be an awful situation for them.
Sinbad
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I spoke to cousin and husband this afternoon, and offered my input. They said they'd wait a little longer to hear!....... so I emailed the MP and made it very clear how bad the situation is and that I would be recommending that they go to the media if their is no action soon. He answered immediately saying he knew the letter Philip wrote was on the Area Commander's desk and if they still hadn't heard by the end of next week to let him know. How disappointing. I feel an email coming on to Area Commander Hope. (not an appropriate name in this instance I think ::)) Nay, it has to be a phone call I think. I'll try to persuade the rellies to let me make a fuss even if they wont.
Will email the council tomorrow too.
Many thanks for your replies and suggestions folks. A problem shared and all that. ;)
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maggie, if yu need us all to email them, let us know, or the papers, ..too much of this going on :-X
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Thanks Mal, will do.
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Hi again Emaggie. I think SB is correct, my son has a workshop down a side road and recently there was a burglary in the flats which are just past his workshop. The Police actually came to my son and said they had noticed he had cameras would he be kind enough to see if there was anything on there to help them, his cameras are there for 2 reasons to see who is entering his workshop and also what vehicles are travelling along the little road (block end).
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Hmmmm, will visit this weekend hopefully and look into it. Philip is adamant that he would be in breach of the data protection act. Perhaps if I get info from local police that will convince him to get it changed.
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Emaggie, most of the basic things you need to know about running cctv can be found here (including the data protection act) http://www.cctv-data-protection.info/
This is not my company but some helpful advice. It appears one must be registered somewhere to run the cctv and use it publicly (and for evidence) but ..... if our company's anything to go by, having an installer come along and set up just one camera probably wouldn't work out too expensive - but that's just guesswork on my part.
I do know that for every system we install, we are required by law to send off a certificate of compliance for each customer. The customer also keeps a copy.
Just a thought, but have they thought about putting up three or four dummy cameras as a deterrant?
I didn't get to speak to my boss today but I will still ask for details when I speak to him tomorrow.
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Many thanks SB. All printed off and ready to refer to. Just what we needed.
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E Maggie get in touch with the local ASBO contact in your area and ask for their advice,they can be very helpful and may even know of the troubles in your area and even the local nasties. I work with them on a few things and have heard them many times say in meetings, contact us when something is going on. They have loads of valuable info. Good luck, it is very mean and hopefully they will get tired and give up after a bit, that is apparently quite common. Hugs to the rellies XX Jeannine
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Hi Emaggie, Haven't been on this site for a while so have only just looked at your thread.
THis is terrible! >:(
I found out that my daughters friends were hanging out of her bedroom window and yelling abuse at an older neighbour (when I wasn't around >:() but moving her bedroom from the front of the house to the smallest room at the back of the house has put a stop to this!
I was mortified and couldn't believe that my little angel was in some way responsible for this. I'd have had her up in front of a judge if it would have taught her a valuable life lesson.... Shame a lot of parents aren't this bothered though :(
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Thanks again all you lovely folk for your good wishes and information.
Today I have spoken to just about everyone! Police say they sent someone along to see the rellys so that is the end of that as far as they are concerned. No they didn't apparently, no contact for ages so another call tomorrow ::) BUT... the local council were most helpful although they wont put a fence up because they have no money, the ASBO dept. were brilliant, promising to call tomorrow with a view to sorting out some kind of surveillance etc. I'm keeping everything crossed that they do as they say they will. Philip is not so confident anything will happen, he has resigned himself to the fact that that is their lot in life and put up with it they must. :(
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I haven't forgotten, Emaggie, I'm just not at work today :)
(ps got any local hells angels bars/hangouts in your area? ;D ;))
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Sam what you like, good luck Mags. >:( ;D ;D ;D
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Stick with the ASBO team, I have never been able to fault them and the ones I work with with are very dedicated. Good Luck XX Jeannie
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Big result last evening and today apparently :D
Asbo officer and also police have visited and, joy of joys, a police officer is going to sort out their cc tv for them. The police told my husband (Bearded Wonder)-I was out- that they have been working away at the problem, but it seems they have not been communicating with the rellys!!
Hopefully, if that is the case, it will change now.
I can't thank you enough for your help everyone.
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This is great news. We'll watch this space for more news! (Emaggie, I don't want to see leaked cctv footage on youtube of you chasing someone across the park with your gardening tools ...... )
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Got a bro redesigning the rotorvator he's lending me as we speak SB ;D ;D
(Think Boadicca..hehe)
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yeah, result...as long as they've got you watching them, they won't dare do nothing :o ;D