Allotments 4 All
General => The Shed => Topic started by: Baccy Man on July 13, 2007, 00:14:09
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There have been millions of surveys on the ban and the results depend pretty much on the people that are attracted to them but as a poll has been requested in Keef's " Going for a smoke" thread I thought I would start it desite the comments about a pole not being representative of professional pub go'ers. A poll here will make no difference to the ban anyway.
I have allowed the option for users to change their votes if they change their mind.
Here is my opinion on the smoking ban to get things started:
Smoking bans are bad laws based upon lies, and a law that is based upon lies does not deserve to be respected. To see why this is true, go to
http://www.forestonline.org
&
http://pasan.TheTruthIsALie.com
Admittedly these 2 sites are biased as they are both against the smoking ban however they do have the evidence to back up what they say unlike the anti smoking sites which contain a lot of propaganda & little if any evidence to back it up.
Whats is this ban for, it is social engineering by the government and stops social interaction by a large proportion of the population, it is not about a health risk to non-smokers as there is no significant risk from second hand smoke to anyone, it is another lie which this Government has created, there is no epidemiological study which shows second hand smoke to have a relative risk factor over 3 (over 3 is significant) even the ones that have been fixed by ASH and Cancer research, combined these studies show a RR of well below 2.
The SCOTH committee created by government who say second hand smoke is harmful, are not speaking the truth, second hand smoke may be insignificantly harmful but so is water,coffee,most household products and cosmetics, also look at the other interests that some members of SCOTH have, ASH and pharmacutical interests, this committee is a disgrace to everything Britain stands for. Even the Health & Safety Executive say in HSE OC 255/15 they cannot produce evidence that second hand smoke is harmful.
Another common justification for the ban is the suggestion that smokers are placing an unnecessary financial burden on the rest of society because of the cost of treating 'smoking-related' diseases.
In fact, when you compare tobacco tax revenues (tax currently accounts for as much as 89 percent of the cost of a packet of 20 cigarettes) with the alleged cost of health treatment, the former far outweighs the latter. In the UK, tobacco tax revenue currently stands at £7 billion a year compared with the £1.5 billion it allegedly costs to tackle 'smoking-related' diseases. (Taxation revenue should of course be even higher - over £10 billion - but the Government has cleverly 'lost' £3 billion by over taxing tobacco and therefore encouraging smugglers and cross-Channel shoppers to buy the product abroad.)
Even if only a minority wanted some public venue where they can smoke together, that is made impossible by the intransigence of the policy. Government doesn't want anybody to remember what a nice feeling tolerance is. Nobody was given the opportunity to have there say there was no referendum before the ban was introduced yet this is supposed to be a democratic country.
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Thumbs up for the ban..
Geo.. :)
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The ban as my vote. :)
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It seems I can't spell today Dan if you read this can you change the title of the thread so poll is spelt properly.
Admin says - I've corrected it!
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"decision of the owner of the premises" - seems fair & got my vote.....but....ang on! the owner may not be the landlord?......hmmm. gettin tricky....."decision of the owner of the premises when endorsed by the landlord but, in the event of a change of landlord, the agreement to be re-confirmed with the in-coming incumbent".....
There again, if the pub is thriving and performing a public service (remember local post offices, anyone?).... would a new anti-smoking landlord have a right to make the pub a non-smoking one?
Life's never easy, is it?
;D
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Decision of the licensee, I say (that gets round the owner/landlord ambiguity). Separate smoking/non smoking areas could be made available in most cases.
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Decision of the owner of the premises as they are best placed to consider the needs of their customers; and therefore, their livelihood.
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I used to love smoking, gave up 9 years ago and still miss it every day. I work with a fella who smokes and he always lights up next to me so I can enjoy that first whiff of a freshly lit ciggy. If it were just me, I would say it is up to the property owner/manager, but I am a mummy and I HATE my children being exposed to smelly cigs in lifts or shopping centres. It hasn't happened often, but a couple of times we have gotten in a lift and someone is either smoking, or just left after having a smoke, and for my asthma suffering hub and daughter, it aint great.
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I don't think I need to tell you which I picked! ;)
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That is a big yes from me too.
My son's best friend's mother is a stinking chain smoker...she was out on the town last Sat and she reckoned the ban made her night a lot more fun...going outside meant she met and talked to people she would never have spoken to otherwise and they continued to chat as they worked their ways around the pubs. So there you go you smokers. Stop wingeing and get on with it..it's soo much more fun. Hah!
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I thought the poll was going to be about pubs. Surely a majority of public places have been non-smoking for some time anyway: shops, cinemas, buses etc.
I just cannot understand why anyone would begrudge a pub landlord the right to decide whether to make his pub (which will often be his home as well) a place where smoking is permitted. Surely if there were separate areas for smoking and non-smoking, everyone would have been satisfied with this.
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There is separate areas...there is inside and there is outside.
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Total thumbs up from me.
The countless nights I've gone out and had to suffer cigarette smoke, dread to think of the effect it had on me, against my wishes. Out last Saturday, absolutely fantastic, and I didn't come in stinking ;D
Up till now, if you wanted to socialise with others, you had to put up with it and suffer. Not any more, brilliant ;D
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Total thumbs up from me.
The countless nights I've gone out and had to suffer cigarette smoke, dread to think of the effect it had on me, against my wishes. Out last Saturday, absolutely fantastic, and I didn't come in stinking ;D
Up till now, if you wanted to socialise with others, you had to put up with it and suffer. Not any more, brilliant ;D
But would'nt a choice of smoking and smoking pubs acheive the same ?
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But would'nt a choice of smoking and smoking pubs acheive the same ?
Not really - if some of your mates smoke and wanted to go to the smoking pub then you either have to both go to different pubs or the non-smokers would suffer by having to go into the smoking pub.
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The countless nights I've gone out and had to suffer cigarette smoke, dread to think of the effect it had on me, against my wishes.
What effect is that then.
There is no significant risk from second hand smoke to anyone, it is another lie which this Government has created, there is no epidemiological study which shows second hand smoke to have a relative risk factor over 3 (over 3 is significant) even the ones that have been fixed by ASH and Cancer research, combined these studies show a RR of well below 2. Second hand smoke may be insignificantly harmful but so is water,coffee,most household products and cosmetics.
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But would'nt a choice of smoking and smoking pubs acheive the same ?
Not really - if some of your mates smoke and wanted to go to the smoking pub then you either have to both go to different pubs or the non-smokers would suffer by having to go into the smoking pub.
But on the other hand, smokers are being forced to smoke outside away from thier mates.. if your the only non-smoker in a group, then well you either sit on your own whilst your mates go out for a f*g, or go out and join them. Swings and round-a-bouts is'nt it?
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Stop wingeing and get on with it..it's soo much more fun. Hah!
There is separate areas...there is inside and there is outside.
Tell that to my brave, terminally ill friend who loves a pint and a cig in the local. Whose mobility is decreasing by the day. (And it isn't a smoking-related disease, it's genetic.)
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Ah don't give me that. i have refrained from using the fact that my mother in law is dying of lung cancer as my anti smoking stance, also that my mother is badly affected by smoke due to her MS and she likes to go out for a drinkie etc etc
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health risks aside, it's just nice not to have stinging eyes, a sore throat and smelly clothes just because you wanted to be sociable.
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Ah don't give me that. i have refrained from using the fact that my mother in law is dying of lung cancer as my anti smoking stance, also that my mother is badly affected by smoke due to her MS and she likes to go out for a drinkie etc etc
Clearly you are a very compassionate person.
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We lost my partners mum to lung cancer in november 06. I had already given up, OH was in the process of doing so when she was diagnosed and within weeks of her diagnosis both of OH's brothers ahd given up too. Was a bit of a wake up call for everyone I think. You make your choices and take the chances.
Sorry to hear you are going through this too Heldi. It is horrible, horrible, horrible.
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health risks aside, it's just nice not to have stinging eyes, a sore throat and smelly clothes just because you wanted to be sociable.
It is unfortunate that only when a smoker stops smoking that they realize that. :)
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health risks aside, it's just nice not to have stinging eyes, a sore throat and smelly clothes just because you wanted to be sociable.
It is unfortunate that only when a smoker stops smoking that they realize that. :)
Agreed.
Personally, I took it up because my parents smoked and I wanted to know what all of the fuss was about, so I perservered with the coughing fits / nearly being sick etc, because at 8 years old I thought it must have made me look grown up, after all, all of the adults around me were doing it. Thank G*d I came to my senses!
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Thanks Emmy,it's a bit raw at the moment. I'm sorry for your loss Emmy and Greyhound I am truly sorry about your mate. I hate smoking, I don't hate you!! Or anyone else for that matter. Can we get back to ribbing each other pleease!!!
Besides i have to nip to the toilet every five mins after a couple of drinks and that has got to be more of an inconvience than nipping outside for a drag hasn't it?!!
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Besides i have to nip to the toilet every five mins after a couple of drinks and that has got to be more of an inconvience than nipping outside for a drag hasn't it?!!
;D Heldi!! Me too!!!! Pesky babies.
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Its crap having to stand outside pubs to have a f*g in the rain. Better provisions should have been made. I don't want to socialise outside with folk i don't like. I want to sit with a pint watching racing with my mates and have an occasional f*g. No kids allowed in pub so i can't see the problem. Don't like smoke don't come in.
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Don't like smoke don't come in.
That's just rude. If it's ok for you to say that then it's ok for non smokers to say if you want to smoke - get out.
Smokers now the minority and unfortunately that means you don't call the shots.
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Smokers now the minority and unfortunately that means you don't call the shots.
Any other minority group would get preferential treatment.
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Its crap having to stand outside pubs to have a f*g in the rain. Better provisions should have been made. I don't want to socialise outside with folk i don't like. I want to sit with a pint watching racing with my mates and have an occasional f*g. No kids allowed in pub so i can't see the problem. Don't like smoke don't come in.
Stop at home and watch the racing on ya own telly, invite ya mates round get a few cans in.Then there would be no big kids in so no problem. Don't like the ban stop at home. Swings and round-a-bouts ain't it. ;)
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Don't like smoke don't come in.
That's just rude. If it's ok for you to say that then it's ok for non smokers to say if you want to smoke - get out.
Smokers now the minority and unfortunately that means you don't call the shots.
In the pubs i frequent smokers are easily in the majority.
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The countless nights I've gone out and had to suffer cigarette smoke, dread to think of the effect it had on me, against my wishes.
What effect is that then.
There is no significant risk from second hand smoke to anyone, it is another lie which this Government has created, there is no epidemiological study which shows second hand smoke to have a relative risk factor over 3 (over 3 is significant) even the ones that have been fixed by ASH and Cancer research, combined these studies show a RR of well below 2. Second hand smoke may be insignificantly harmful but so is water,coffee,most household products and cosmetics.
Wonder what the late Roy Castle would have thought about that, all those years being a musician in smoke filled clubs and bars, then to die of lunch cancer. And my dad, smoked since he was a teen, died of heart disease linked to his smoking, he was fit and well, low cholestrol, very fit as a milkman, normal BP etc.
Pubs is a tricky one. But again, smokers do seem to the be the minority now so it does seem unfair for non smokers to have to inhale their smoke, but then I can't imagine a clean fresh smelling boozer! The stink of a smoker I don't miss. There is a mum who comes to one of the kids clubs and watches and phewie, you can smell her as she walks through the door. It isn't a sexy stench thats for sure. Yellow teeth, wrinkles, couging up crap, but I still miss that first smoke of the day. :-\
Ex smokers get on their high horses about giving up and hating smoking, people who smoke get on their high horses because they are being told they shouldn't do it. Any addict has the same problem whether to booze, drugs or cigs.
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In the pubs i frequent smokers are easily in the majority.
I wonder if that is regional though. In our local it is a few people that smoke, I don't think it has made that greater difference.
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Smokers now the minority and unfortunately that means you don't call the shots.
Any other minority group would get preferential treatment.
::)Some people are never satisfied, you are allowed to stand anywhere in the carpark and yet ya still moan, i don't know ya wont jam on it. ;) ;D
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In the pubs i frequent smokers are easily in the majority.
I wonder if that is regional though. In our local it is a few people that smoke, I don't think it has made that greater difference.
Its varies from pub to pub, and depends on the kind of people that go in there - sorry to keep harping on but... smoking and non-smoking pubs is the way it should be.
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I am not having a dig at smokers at all....remember, if they put vitamin C in them, or gave them away with your shreddies, theres a good chance I would start again. Just interesting to think about smoking patterns geographically and demographically....if that is what I mean.... Big words on a Friday isn't a good start to the weekend!
There is no way around the law is there? I mean you can't get a licence to have a smokers only pub for example? I guess 'smoking speakeasies' will crop up.
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No there is no way round the law freedom of choice has been taken away.
The next step is giving out plastic glasses as people can't be trusted with glass even though the surveys show 85% of customers believe that a polycarbonate cup would devalue their drinking experience & three-quarters of drinkers would stop visiting a pub if it served drinks in plastic vessels rather than glasses.
http://www.caterersearch.com/Articles/2007/05/29/313987/plastic-glasses-a-turn-off-in-pubs.html
Plastic glasses with a no smoking message are already being given to drinkers in Northamptonshire who want to pop outside for a f*g to make drinking outside safer and to get the smoke-free message across to everyone using them.
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/news_detail.aspx?articleid=46959
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Its varies from pub to pub, and depends on the kind of people that go in there - sorry to keep harping on but... smoking and non-smoking pubs is the way it should be.
I see your point keef but what happens when a new licensee takes over? You can't guarantee they will want to keep it as a smoking pub.
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Its varies from pub to pub, and depends on the kind of people that go in there - sorry to keep harping on but... smoking and non-smoking pubs is the way it should be.
I see your point keef but what happens when a new licensee takes over? You can't guarantee they will want to keep it as a smoking pub.
Fair enough then, its up to the licensee - presumably they will have done some research into the pub they are buying and will be able to make an informed decision on whether or not to ban smoking in that pub. On a side note, the changing of licensee quite often does more for emptying a pub than banning smoking - from personal experience >:(
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On a purely selfish point: we now have a whole host of pubs and resturants that we can happily use so the ban is GOOD THING for us ;D
I can see why smokers who now can't smoke in their local where practically everyone smokes are annoyed. But I guess the problem is that a blanket ban is easier and cheaper to enforce than treating each case individually.
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I would like to add that a separate smoking area would be best... dont mind being outside so long as an area is provided and preferably covered, nothing worse than drinkers spilling out on streets as i have been seeing every night from work... next thing will be drinking in public places - then the front of pubs will clear and drinkers will go home to drink and smoke.
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Yes from me, no one can argue with the tax income from fags, but that in my opinion is the only argument a smoker can win. I hear loss of revenue in the pubs, but in ireland and Scotland it doesn't seem to be the case, going outside in the cold and rain, the people I know moan but are quite willing to spend half the night on a mobile outside in the cold and rain and how many smokers who moan go on a long haul flight taking on alcohol but go 12/15 hours without a smelly. ;D ;D ;D
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Yes to a ban from me. Whilst I dont always think we have the right to say smokers cant smoke, I then remember that I, like other non smokers, never had a choice about whether we get third party smoke instead! Even sitting in non smoking areas didnt always work sa the smoke simply rose and floated in to the non smoking areas defeating the whole point!
My holiday coincided with the ban and what a great week it was being able to go into any pub or restaurant we wanted! No more looking inside to see if it was smoky!
Yes the smokers may have had their rights taken off them, but non smokers didnt have the right in the first place.
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Definitely a big hurray for smokeless pubs. If they can do it in Scotland and Ireland they can do it here. I am an ex smoker too :-[ And wished I had given up earlier.
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Smoking is brilliant! Why?
There's no room for secondary smoke if you fill your lungs with primary smoke!
So, instead of being browbeaten into being a passive smoker - take control!
Become an active smoker!
And finally, tobacco is wholly vegetarian! Now for the song:
Oh yoooooouuu light up my liiife...!
;D
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I think it is brilliant that I can now go into public places and not have to put up with cigarette smoke. I have a problem with my lungs, where I have to posturally drain them twice a day, because I don't have the ability to clear the lower lobes of my lungs like normal people. I have to lie upside down and bang on them to clear them that way. When I get up in the mornings I
can't just start the day normally like ordinary people because I have to drain my lungs, and at night before I can go to bed I have to do the same.
I have spent years, both at work and socially where I have had to breathe in smoke from other people's cigarettes. Whether it is going to a pub, in a restaurant, standing in a queue, people can be very inconsiderate with their smoke. To have had just half a room dedicated to non smokers which is open was a total waste of time as the smoke just drifted over. Because of my lung problem I can't just get rid of the smoke like normal people, and it makes me very wheezy. So YES, I am delighted not to have to suffer from other peoples bad habits. It was so lovely to go to a pub last week and sit anywhere I wanted too, the place smelled so fresh and I felt liberated. busy_lizzie
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Yes from me, no one can argue with the tax income from fags, but that in my opinion is the only argument a smoker can win. I hear loss of revenue in the pubs, but in ireland and Scotland it doesn't seem to be the case, going outside in the cold and rain, the people I know moan but are quite willing to spend half the night on a mobile outside in the cold and rain and how many smokers who moan go on a long haul flight taking on alcohol but go 12/15 hours without a smelly. ;D ;D ;D
So why have 1200+ bars(and counting) in Ireland permanently closed claiming it is as a result of the ban coming into effect?
Why is it that national newspapers ( Scottish editions ) have censored any references to the defiance of the Smoking Ban in England? Is it because the Scottish Government are terrified of a backlash as well?
The passive smoking argument has been one as well as I have pointed out several times there is no evidence secondary smoke is significantly harmful.
The smoky atmosphere can be resolved by good ventilation. In my local before the ban there was no smoke around despite numerous customers who smoked cigars & pipes in addition to all the cigarette smokers because the landlady had spent a few grand on high quality extractor fans which cleared the air.
I would like to add that a separate smoking area would be best... dont mind being outside so long as an area is provided and preferably covered, nothing worse than drinkers spilling out on streets as i have been seeing every night from work...
Hundreds of pubs don't have any outdoor space which leaves no option except standing on the street some can't even put a suitable ashtray outside without permission from the council let alone provide shelter are theses pubs supposed to close.
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Stop at home and watch the racing on ya own telly, invite ya mates round get a few cans in.Then there would bekid no big s in so no problem. Don't like the ban stop at home. Swings and round-a-bouts ain't it. What so you and your mates can watch the shopping channels. Your barred.
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.....but if this poll is about giving the option to pubs to have smoking/non smoking establishments (praps even a mix, with separate bars?)....I'm not understanding the objections from the non-smokers here. Surely they, too, will have an option of which pub to frequent?
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Don't seem to have much time for telly Northener, just lately my local as got a great atmosphere.......no smoke in it. ;D so now after a hard day at the allotment out in all that (it does seem to make ya thirsty ::))fresh air i go for a pint or two and a bit more fresh air. :) Who needs the goggle box when theres all that fresh air to enjoy out there. ;D
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.....but if this poll is about giving the option to pubs to have smoking/non smoking establishments (praps even a mix, with separate bars?)....I'm not understanding the objections from the non-smokers here. Surely they, too, will have an option of which pub to frequent?
We have now. 8) in fact ya could say we are spoiled for choice. ;)
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SMOKING BAN HAS MY THUMBS UP. ANYWHERE.
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The comments from a lot of people in favour of the ban suggest that smokers should be treated as a persecuted minority. This hardly seems fair when provisions have always been made for non smokers previously. Non smoking cafes & restaurants, non smoking clubs, seperate smoking & non smoking sections in some pubs. Surely it would of been fairer to just expand on what was previously being done improving ventilation better seperation of smoking & non smoking sections (prefereably seperate rooms with no need for non smokers to walk through the smoking sections). Why is a ban on smoking in all enclosed public spaces needed.
What about people who work from home who can't smoke in their own home as it counts as business premises. Or people who can't smoke in their cars for the same reason.
I use public transport & can no longer smoke at most bus stops or train stations since the ban has come into effect even if I am the only person standing there so nobody will come into contact with the smoke I produce.
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Smug in the snug could you could say Froglegs,lovely.
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Provision has not always been made for non smokers. It is only gradually over the years that provision have been made for non smokers.
For years I shared an office with two smokers, with their desks next to mine. It wasn't very pleasant, coming home after having had to breathe all that in day after day. The same goes with pubs and restaurants. Non smokers have suffered for years and you can't get over the fact that smoking is not good for anyone, those doing it and those having to breathe the smoke in.
I know it is a terrible addiction and it is not like I am unsympathetic to those who are hooked. My OH is a smoker, who has tried for years unsuccessfully, to give up. He smokes in the garden and never near me fortunately. He is honest enough to know it is bad for him and wishes he could give up. busy_lizzie
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Am in the minority here.
I think they should be banned........period!!
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Negatives below:
Dangerous to your health
Dangerous to others around
Responsible for small birth weight
Costs tax payers millions in healthcare
Causes fires which cause deaths and financial grief
Addictive
Low income families spend grocery money on them
We are passing all of the above onto our kids
Positives below:
Government gets money
IF THEY WERE LAUNCHED TODAY THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED FOR SALE
Oh I am going to get it now.
PLEASE don't take this personally anyone.
I know people have the right to choose, but not for other people, not for their children, not if someone else has to pay the health bill, not if kids have to go without food.
And if the choice is the answer, why not include pot and cocaine as available too.
I don't understand it.
XX Jeannine
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The comments from a lot of people in favour of the ban suggest that smokers should be treated as a persecuted minority. This hardly seems fair when provisions have always been made for non smokers previously.
Where has the non smoking bar worker been protected? They still have to serve in a smoky environment, even if smoking at the bar was banned a few years ago. I suppose you could always only employ bar staff who do smoke, but then that's discrimination against non smokers.
where was the protection for someone who worked in an office that smoking was allowed (taxi ranks etc)?
Non smoking cafes & restaurants, non smoking clubs, seperate smoking & non smoking sections in some pubs. Surely it would of been fairer to just expand on what was previously being done improving ventilation better seperation of smoking & non smoking sections (prefereably seperate rooms with no need for non smokers to walk through the smoking sections).
If restaurant owners, pub landlords etc wanted to do this they would have done, but they didn't.
What about people who work from home who can't smoke in their own home as it counts as business premises. Or people who can't smoke in their cars for the same reason.
Anyone would be naive to think that any law would stop these people from doing this, but they would just have to accept the consequences of a fine and any other condemnations that arose from it.
I use public transport & can no longer smoke at most bus stops or train stations since the ban has come into effect even if I am the only person standing there so nobody will come into contact with the smoke I produce.
Yes, but where do you draw the line? if there were only 2 people standing in the queue then your actions would affect the other person and to go back to something that EJ said, it must cost millions every year for cleanup of cigarette ends and packets which have just been discarded on the floor or to clean up after smokers at the end of the night in the pub. Cigarette bins have been around for ages but the majority of smokers would chuck the used butt on the floor.
Is it wrong that I can't drive at whatever speed I want to just because I own a car? No! As a driver I have accepted responsibilities that I will do whatever it takes to protect other drivers and pedestrians from my irresponsible actions because it would affect other people.
Is it wrong that I can't discipline my kids the way I was disciplined? No! my parents went far too far when disciplining me but that's a matter for an entirely different thread which I won't be starting.
Is it wrong that we can't use DDT on crops these days to make sure we get a good harvest without birds and bugs having their share? No!
Yes the smokers may have had their rights taken off them, but non smokers didnt have the right in the first place.
Shelle has summed it all up perfectly. well done Shelle
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If your a non-smoker, and you object to smoking that much then why would you get a job in a smoking pub?
I dont know where you've been, but quite a few bars and resteraunts have been non-smoking for sometime.
If a police car spots a driver of a company van having a f*g, will they stop them? and fine them on the spot?
Most public places have been non-smoking for sometime, hotels, supermarkets, hospitals etc.. however if think bars and pubs should be treated differently, as they have been for years with regards to drinking laws.
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I would back a ban.
I gave up smoking recently and have not missed it for a minute. Im better off, feel fitter, love the absence of the smell of tobacco on my clothes, and I'm free of that awful bind that cigarettes put you in...have I got enough? stop and buy some, where can I have one at the airport ? etc, etc....
Even when I did smoke I didn't do it in the houses of non-smoking friends or near children.
In the fifties smoking was considered sophisticated and 'in'. Now we know better. Its superannuated bad habit that does no one any good. Get rid of it and good riddance!!!!
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Am in the minority here.
I think they should be banned........period!!
!
Negatives below:
Dangerous to your health
Dangerous to others around
Responsible for small birth weight
Costs tax payers millions in healthcare
Causes fires which cause deaths and financial grief
Addictive
Low income families spend grocery money on them
We are passing all of the above onto our kids
Positives below:
Government gets money
IF THEY WERE LAUNCHED TODAY THEY WOULD NOT BE ALLOWED FOR SALE
Oh I am going to get it now.
PLEASE don't take this personally anyone.
I know people have the right to choose, but not for other people, not for their children, not if someone else has to pay the health bill, not if kids have to go without food.
And if the choice is the answer, why not include pot and cocaine as available too.
I don't understand it.
XX Jeannine
Of course theres no other reason to smoke other than to give the government money. I hate doing it i just love giving Gordon some more of my wedge - ::)
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Jeannine I would agree with several of the negatives you pointed out.
Dangerous to your health.
I agree entirely there is only 1 brand of cigarettes that I have ever seen marketed responsibly you can see a transcript of their own health warning here http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=908350 this was in addition to the government heath warnings.
Dangerous to others around.
There is no scientific evidence to backup this claim.
Responsible for small birth weight.
Only if pregnant women smoke, many women give up whilst they are pregnant. It doesn't give me an incentive to give up as the chances of me becoming a pregnant woman are spectacularly low.
Costs tax payers millions in healthcare.
Smokers are tax payers & they pay an addition £7.5 billion in taxes on their cigarettes this more than covers the £1.5 billion to cover the heathcare costs. Although smokers are now at risk of being refused treatment for routine procedures unless they stop smoking for at least 1 month by Leicester City West Primary Care Trust & Norfolk Primary Care Trust has already taken the step of removing smokers from waiting lists. I don't suppose it will take long for all other heathcare trusts to follow suit.
It would also pay for the littering mentioned by EJ & SnooziSuzi although littering is a seperate issue & I would not have a problem with on the spot fines for dropping cigarette butts as long as suitable bins for cigarette butts were made availiable (they are not in my area). When I am out I have a small sealed ashtray attached to my keyring to eliminate the need for littering.
Causes fires which cause deaths and financial grief.
That is irresponsible behaviour all smokers should ensure their cigarettes are extinguished before discarding them.
Addictive.
I agree completely but people make an informed decision about wether they take up smoking or not.
Low income families spend grocery money on them.
This would be completely irresponsible behaviour. I know loads of people on the dole who smoke but they always spend their money feeding/clothing their children, paying for scool trips etc.. before even thinking about spending it on cigarettes. Parents who drink heavily or use illegal drugs would be another matter though.
We are passing all of the above onto our kids.
Peoples kids are bombarded with information telling them not to smoke if they choose to ignore it & start smoking anyway how is that the parents fault.
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I gree that pubs and bars should be treated differently. These are not places for children although I can foresee that this new law will lead to a more kindergarten environment. ugh.
Some or many of you mistake a bar for an eating establishment which many old pubs have turned into. They are more akin to continental types.
Bars are for drinking.... not television, not meals, not children....
The irony of this new law is that not only does the `for`fraternity have no choice but the `against ` don`t either.
Insidious populist democracy.
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I was apprenticed as a decorator and can remember seeing painters spewing their guts up when washing off pub ceilings because of the nicotine. When I became the boss I would not take on any pub redecorating, always priced it so high that we didn't get it. I used to give 5% discount for inside work in the winter + 5% for pensioners.
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I’ve been following this thread without comment because most people are doing such a grand job; however, I can only keep my mouth shut for so long,
A few of my experiences, observations and thoughts.
My youngest son had an asthma attack at two years old, was rushed into hospital and admitted for five days. His dad was a sixty a day man.
Three years of medication and numerous similar episodes followed.
Ex-husband traded me in for a younger model. (He came crawling back, was refused entry) No more medication, no more asthma attacks.
My beloved Granddad smoked all his life and died of stomach cancer at eighty two?
My father died at seventy six of lung cancer, a heavy smoker, would give anything to have him around now. Nineteen years on, mum still alive, non smoker.
I went to my best mate’s husband’s funeral last year, fifty two, smoked all his life, died of lung cancer.
Another mate, heavy smoker, is panicking now because she won’t be able to smoke when she goes to her local, yet she spent two hundred and fifty ponds on hypnotherapy last year in an effort to quit.
My eldest son smokes, always trying to give up.
My two step-sons smoke. Every time they pay us a visit I hear ‘next time I see you I will have given up’. I have never said a word about it to either of them.
Do ‘some’ smokers’ secretly want to stop and is part of their bravado down to fear of failure, “me thinks he doth protest too much”
I too have lung damage, contracted TB when travelling in my thirties and a smoky atmosphere makes me seriously ill. I haven’t been to a pub for years, missed a lot of night out with my mates. I would have been able to go if I’d had the option of a non-smoking room.
When I have a party most people congregate in the conservatory, a designated smoking area, full of smokers and non smokers alike, but I do keep the French doors open.
We have all accepted non smoking in restaurants and child friendly establishments which I think is a good thing, but there must be freedom of choice and some things need a little time. Slowly slowly catchy monkey!
We are all getting a bit fed up with the ‘nanny state’, EEC directives etc. and as a nation becoming increasingly insecure. I think for some people this law is just another strike at the very essence of our heritage, the British way of life and our freedom, that’s why I do have a little sympathy for the guy who likes his pint with a cigarette. However, I wish the dreaded weed had never been discovered and John Rolfe had stuck to his back garden growing roses.
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I DO believe there is evidence to show it is harmful to others.
I did not blame the parents if their children smoke..the WE was meant to represent a country who allows it , I don't believe I mentioned parents,same goes for the pregant Mums, if it was banned they wouldn't have the choice, therefore their children unborn children would be protected. I also know of many families where drugs and cigarettes DO come before food for kids.
I believe as much as possible in free speech and freedom of choice but we do not allow folks to smoke opium or shoot heroin either, the government has taken that decision away form them ,had they not it would still be legal too. I think there is enough data to show it is just as dangerous albeit in a different way.
XX Jeannine
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I DO believe there is evidence to show it is harmful to others.
I have done an awful lot of reading on the all aspects of tobacco from growing/manufacturing techniques, ritual uses, health effects, the financial side of it etc... I could quote a list of the 600 or so declared additives that are used in commercial tobacco but I would be unable to quote anything that demonstrates secondary smoke is significantly harmful which has not been disproved elsewhere & yes I have looked. I have never disputed the fact that tobacco is harmful just that I believe it is only harmful for the user.
If anyone believes the propaganda that is their decision I am rapidly losing interest in the subject.
I did not blame the parents if their children smoke..the WE was meant to represent a country who allows it , I don't believe I mentioned parents,same goes for the pregant Mums, if it was banned they wouldn't have the choice, therefore their children unborn children would be protected. I also know of many families where drugs and cigarettes DO come before food for kids.
Obviously I misinterpreted your comment "We are passing all of the above onto our kids." but I still believe people have enough information given to them to make an informed decision on wether to take up smoking or not.
As for cigarettes coming before kids that is neglect & is therefore a matter for social services & the NSPCC it should not happen.
I believe as much as possible in free speech and freedom of choice but we do not allow folks to smoke opium or shoot heroin either, the government has taken that decision away form them ,had they not it would still be legal too. I think there is enough data to show it is just as dangerous albeit in a different way.
As for the comparison to opium & heroin I would say tobacco is more addictive & more dangerous to the user there are an awful lot more tobacco related deaths than there are opium/heroin related deaths, some of the additives legally put into commercially produced tobacco are probably much worse than anything heroin would be cut with. However this poll is about the ban on smoking in public places it is not about wether using tobacco products will kill you or not the only anwer to that would be yes. If it was banned completely it would just go underground the same as all the other (now illegal) drugs have so people could still get hold of it the prices would go up drastically so people would start committing crimes to pay for it. The revenue it currently generates would be lost so there would be no money to deal with the problems it causes (unless the government decides to stop blowing up the middle east & starts using that money to resolve the problems in the UK instead). In my opinion an outright ban would do just as much harm as it would do good just in different ways.
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I still believe people have enough information given to them to make an informed decision on wether to take up smoking or not.
People do have the information and have done for years, but the fact is that they still choose to take it up and cause others to be affected by it.
72% of people have voted that the ban should have been put in place, however only 27.1% of others could say either No or that the business owner should decide. This forum is a great cross section of society as we have old and young, male and female, smokers, non-smokers and ex smokers. Really the only thing that we all have in common is that we have a love of gardening, so can we please put this one to bed now and get back to being friends :'(
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SnooziSuzi I only started this poll after you requested it in the going for a smoke thread.
It would be interesting to have a poll on this subject to see truely how divided the lines are on this subject... anyone care to start one?
If you are satisfied you know how divided the lines are on the subject now that 60 people have voted & some of those people have interacted in debating the subject then I suggest we get Dan to lock the thread & it can disappear into obscurity & nobody will be able to drag it up again.
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I know you did, and thank you for doing it (didn't have the guts myself!)
It was an interestng thread with some opposing and valid comments.
I'd be happy for the thread to be locked, I think everyone has had their say and gotten a lot of their chests.
Thanks again for everyone's frank and honest comments :D
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I still believe people have enough information given to them to make an informed decision on wether to take up smoking or not.
People do have the information and have done for years, but the fact is that they still choose to take it up and cause others to be affected by it.
72% of people have voted that the ban should have been put in place, however only 27.1% of others could say either No or that the business owner should decide. This forum is a great cross section of society as we have old and young, male and female, smokers, non-smokers and ex smokers. Really the only thing that we all have in common is that we have a love of gardening, so can we please put this one to bed now and get back to being friends :'(
As i pointed out - this forum probably is'nt a good cross section on general pub gowers though.
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Get back to being friends..............oh gosh, did we ever stop??
XX Jeannine
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I still believe people have enough information given to them to make an informed decision on wether to take up smoking or not.
People do have the information and have done for years, but the fact is that they still choose to take it up and cause others to be affected by it.
72% of people have voted that the ban should have been put in place, however only 27.1% of others could say either No or that the business owner should decide. This forum is a great cross section of society as we have old and young, male and female, smokers, non-smokers and ex smokers. Really the only thing that we all have in common is that we have a love of gardening, so can we please put this one to bed now and get back to being friends :'(
As i pointed out - this forum probably is'nt a good cross section on general pub gowers though.
;D ;D.....Why's that then Keef. ;)
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::) read the other thread..
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Not reading most of this thread cos can't be bothered with most of the arguments seemingly repeated throughout. I recently gave up smoking and timed it so I would be coming off the patches shortly after the ban came into play. Therefore I have had the benefit of regular CO checks. When i smoked I had a CO level of 20. As a non-smoker who lives in an urban environment I have a CO level of 4. The day I gave up smoking I had a CO test at about 10am and I was already down to 12 having been in the pub the night before - last f*g about about 12pm, so in 10 hours, I had cleaned 8 something or other units of CO out my system. About four weeks in of being fagless, I went to the pub (still in the days of smoking) and did not have a cigarette 8) It was a Friday. I left the pub at the usual time and the following morning, went for my appointment and the Sad Addicts Clinic. My CO reading was again back up to 9 :o Bearing in mind I would have lost about the same amount over night, that meant I had a CO reading of about 17 based purely on passive smoking. A smokers level of CO is harmful on its own without the associated tars, benzines etc so don't anybody lecture me that passive smoking is harmless. I have personal, documented and recent proof that says otherwise.
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Here's a question for you....correct me if I am wrong, but it is now against the law to smoke in any enclosed public space/workplace. Tonight we watched Heartbeat and old Alf Ventris was sitting in the Aidensfield Arms enjoying a good old smoke. Yes, legal and okay in the 60's, and potentially filmed before the ban started, but does this mean from now on we will not see people smoking on TV programs and Films? Dot Cotton in Eastenders for example (I assume she is still in it) ? I don't watch any other soaps apart from Heartbeat. :-\
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EJ, I'd reckon that any series set in the Houses of Parliament (remember Yes Minister?) or in prison (Porrige?) or psychiatric units - oh! I forgot, I mentioned that already under 1) :P....would have to include smoking if it was to portray real life...
Question...anyone know? Smoking allowed in solders' canteens in war zones? ::)
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If solders are soldering whilst in their canteens in war zones ??? :D I think they'd be very silly to smoke at the same time and how do they take a draw of a cig with their masks on...or drink a cuppa for that matter? :D
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You can't do the garden when it's raining, your fags go out.
Please do not drop f*g ends down the toilet, it makes them soggy and hard to light.