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Produce => Recipes => Topic started by: tim on June 17, 2007, 18:18:14
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For a decade, I was hooked on Global knives. Fashionable. At great expense. One, in particular, I used every day. Not a very good grip if wet & doesn't hold an edge.
Then I couldn't resist an offer of 5 knives for £10 & fell for the middle one. Great size & shape, light & good grip, but sharpen every day.
Now we're in Wayne country with my new Nogent weapon. Termed a carving knife, it is clearly not a chef's knife because it has no heel to the blade, but I got it largely for slicing. My Wife has some difficulty in this & this thing really has to be the sharpest that I have ever tried.
Believe it when proven but, like 2 other brands, it 'never needs sharpening'. Likely story!
Roullier White is pleased to announce the arrival of the NOGENT Trois Etoiles Expert Range of Chefs’ Knives, which never need sharpening! With 4 serrations per mm, the teeth are practically invisible to the naked eye. It is this technology that means they never have to be sharpened as they never wear down.
The knives are incredibly sharp, very comfortable to use, you don’t feel the serration when cutting, and the knife really cuts, and doesn’t tear the food.
And 'will slice a ripe tomato under its own weight'. Must try an Aubergine!
I think that it may be relegated because of its shape.
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Useful info Tim. I have an old Prestige chef's knife, bought it in 1982 and it still does the job really well because I sharpen it. Trouble is, it's looking a bit thin now!
I have a set of "Sabatier" knives, not sure if they are the real thing because they were a present, but they are taking ages to get really sharp!
Nogent looks just the thing!
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SO SORRY - Saturday was a long day!!
Here's the rest...........
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Great stuff, tim. :) I have been using two steel knives (small & big) that I bought about 15 years ago. They are not stainless steel so gets rusty if left wet but I love them! I have to sharpen them regularly though, which I admit can be a pain!
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On the other hand - very good with squidgy things, like fingers!! - but with Carrots the £2 one was easier!
Sharpening a pain? Four strokes in a Chantry! But I do like to try things.
Haven't tried it for carving yet. Probably not bendy enough.
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very ignorant! didn't know what a chantry was, googled it and got the history of catholicism (hope iv'e spelt that right) please explain chantry as knife sharpener.
gnan
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Will this do??
http://www.premiercutlery.co.uk/ind_cat.php?cat=sharpeners&sub_cat=chantry&gclid=CJasjffG6IwCFQ3alAodSwaEGQ
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I didn't know what chantry was either. :D
I use a slab of sharpening stone which I purchased with the knives. Chantry thingy make my sharpening tool look very primitive. :-[ I have to soak the stone in water before using it, which is the biggest pain!
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A 'stone' is great but, first, you have to very adept at holding a 22 deg angle. Second, it wears away the blade.
The Chantry sets its own angle & does not wear away the blade.
BUT - it will not re-grind a badly blunted blade. It just hones.
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Yes I have one of those but didn't know it was called a chantry. Unfortunately my father in law took it upon himself to sharpen our Sabatier knives on his electric grinding stone a few years back causing the blades to "flake". Although Peter had honed them down to get rid of the damage they have never been as good as when first purchased. A birthday present for Peter many years ago. I like big heavy knives for food preparation.
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We have Sabatier knives left over from when my son trained as a chef. We send them away to be sharpened by a firm that sharpens printers' guillotines. They come back like new razor blades.
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Speaking of knives - how often do you sharpen your table knives? At least once a month?
If you can see the edge, you might just as well be using a kids ruler!
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Our table knives have serrated tips.
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So long as you're happy - that's the main thing. But the tips still go dull & become visible, & unless the serrations are very fine, I still use a Chantry.
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Oh I thought you weren't supposed to sharpen serrated knives? Doh
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More grist to the mill?
"Never-need-sharpening knives are serrated, like a saw blade. A serrated knife does get dull because the teeth become bent and misaligned. A serrated knife functions like a saw, which will continue to cut, after a fashion, even when relatively dull. However, when dull, it will shred or tear rather than slice cleanly. There are several types of "never-need-sharpening" knives. Most serrated edges are created by mechanically grinding or laser-cutting the blade. Today there are sharpeners that quickly and easily revitalize serrated edges restoring their ability to cut smoothly. However, some "never-need-sharpening" knives have blades sprayed with a hard metallic coating such as tungsten carbide. A tungsten carbide edge is very brittle and in a relatively short time (less than a few months in most home kitchens) pieces break off and the edge becomes jagged, cutting in somewhat the same fashion as a serrated edge. These blades cannot be satisfactorily sharpened by home sharpeners and must be returned to the factory for refurbishing.
17. When serrated knives get dull you have to sharpen not only the tips of the serrated teeth, but also the scallops in between.
Sharpening and realigning the prominent teeth will resharpen a serrated knife. It is not necessary to sharpen the scallops between the teeth. Like a saw, the tips of the teeth do most of the cutting."
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So what would you recommend Tim? I haven't a clue where or how I would get all my knives sharpened. :-[ :-[
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Didn't mean to be the voice of doom, Anne! Just interested in the subject. But given the number of 'ultimate' knives on the market, it's really beyond me to comprehend.
My thoughts:
1. A knife is a very personal thing - my Wife doesn't like the ones I like. Her hand is different.
2. Metal handles, however sexy, slip when greasy.
3. I don't like my new one for general purpose work - I need a heel for that. Haven't tried it as a carver (its purpose) yet. It does go through a tomato with its own weight, but is not so easy with hard, dense things.
4. If there was an everlasting blade, a butcher would'nt steel his knives all through the working day?
5. If knives are honed regularly, they need grinding less often.
6. Serrated knives hold their main edge well - it's just the tips that dull. Scalloped edges like the 2 outside ones, are easy to hone on the Chantry. Saw edges like the middle one are not.
7. Saw edges start to tear as they lose their edge. Even when sharp, they tend to drag.
8. For grinding, I use a guide designed for Global knives. (Pic)
9. As said above, if you can see your edge - or tips - you're wasting effort.
10. If you really want to be depressed, try this - http://users.ameritech.net/knives/Juranitch1977Feb.htm
11. Tungsten edges start very sharp but cannot be re-sharpened.
Have fun!! Surprised Derek hasn't joined in - where is he?
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Wow! Thanks for all that. I can see I shall need to research carefully before buying any new ones. I don't know where Derek is. He hasn't been posting much recently I think although he is sometimes in the chat room.
It makes such a difference having a good sharp knife when you're preparing things.
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I don't know where Derek is. He hasn't been posting much recently I think although he is sometimes in the chat room.
I am still about but just lurking, in and out of the chatroom. I don't have much idea of what is happening on A4A much these days.
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So what would you recommend Tim? I haven't a clue where or how I would get all my knives sharpened. :-[ :-[
Many moons ago we used to get a 'knifeman' coming around our street in South London offering to sharpen any knives or scissors...........I'm guessing he's long gone! :-\
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May as well add some comments, now I have seen this thread ...
As a tool, security of grip is possibly the most important feature to me. Sharpness comes and goes, but the grip is a feature of the design, and will vary with different hands. I have not used a metal handled knife, but I have used metal handled tools extensively, and concur with Tim's comments.
Most serrated edges are cut on one side only, suited to a right handed grip. Since I am left handed, I find these useless.
My favourite knife currently is a large cooks knife, with a broad rolled stainless blade. The blade is broad enough that I can scoop chopped ingredients into the pan with minimum fuss.
I still prefer a wooden chopping board where possible, to maintain a sharp edge.
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I'd agree with all of that Derek. I prefer a wooden chopping board, a large cook's knife that doubles as a "scoop" and I tend not to use serrated ones except for things like tomatoes where they seem to do a better job and my bread knife is serrated too. Where I have a problem is in the best way to ensure maximal sharpness of said knives and also I am curious as to which brand of knives people find best.
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As you can see - a bit of a fetish?
But over the years, one is tempted to try something new. Some of these are over 50 years old.
Comparison? I doubt that the majority have such a variety that they could draw a comparison. Mostly, I imagine, what you have is what you like. I cannot say which of the many makes here is the best.
First comes how it feels. Second, is it right for the job in hand - ie carving, paring, slicing, chopping, filleting, boning - & third, does it hold its edge. Anything can be sharpened. For carving, I like a very flexible blade - like that of a filleting knife - so that I can feel the depth of the cut, & go with the shape of the joint.
All my knives need regular honing to keep them in order. Little & often, or they get to the stage when they need a re-grind on a stone.
Wholly agree that the centrepiece is a substantial cook's knife. And my cheapo one is doing me proud for £2! Beyond that, much is dictated by mood.
Having waffled on so far, I have to retract to some extent. If I were setting up again, I would probably go for Granton for my key knives. I gave No2 Daughter a set when she married. They have a very clever design. The scallops alternate on each side of the blade so that the cutting edge can be incredibly thin, but strengthened by the shoulder of the scallop. And they feel great & come in good sizes. This one is 15".
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That's a really impressive collection Tim! As to the 15" Granton it reminds me of the French TV reporters comments when Sarko won the presidential election: "C'est immense!" :P
I notice too that you have magnetic rails for your knives. Mine are in a wooden block and I sometimes wonder if that contributes to bluntness.
I'll need to get out my grinding stone and bring them back to pitch.
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On the use of any blade, perhaps a light anecdote ...
In an earlier life, when I was young and fit, I was heavily into japanese martial arts, and was impressed by the power that could be presented by correct posture and 'attitude' ...
One evening, the aikido instructor brought in a genuine samurai sword, properly sharp (modern practice weapons have no edges) and tutored us in the simple technique of cutting a sheet of newspaper, held apart by two assistants, into two pieces.
Easy? One would think so, with a razor sharp weapon, but the newspaper consistently just folded under the pressure of the blade. Only when the technique was correct, could the paper be cut. A humbling exercise, but also applicable to cutting vegetables, as the fundament is the same ... the knife should stroke the vegetable (or meat), I always use a forward action, gentle, letting the knife do the work, resting the forward edge on the work surface, so I am not even carrying the weight of the knife. There are other techniques of course, but this is my favourite, it becomes joy just to cut up tomatoes, garlic, onions, lettuce, meat etc
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Cor! That were pure poetry Derek! You've just turned kitchen skivvying into an art form. I'm well impressed. 8)
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But SO true, Derek - I'm constantly saying DON'T push down & bang hell out of the board - SLICE!!
Anne - if you're really going to stone them, DO try for the correct & CONSTANT angle. Over the whole length for kitchen knives, but only the front 2" on a table knife.
And one tip at least in that link is worth hearing - stone until you get a burr. Then wipe off the burr on the other side.
PS So sad when it's skivvying - I'm so lucky in that I can enjoy every moment of it.
And Derek - No 6 Grandchild is 2 places away from Black Belt in Taiquando. At 11.
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Ah so difficult to achieve a constant angle ... but necessary to give that flat edge.
However ... I prefer a convex grind for paring knives, eg for peeling, as the form then tends to push the cutting edge away from the fruit or veg, preventing digging in which sometimes occurs, so it is the pressure of the grip which maintains the cutting action. I peel carrots differently however, using a cook's knife, top and tail, then slice around the carrot lengthways, I just find it quicker, and the carrot is straight ...
PS when cutting on wood, I always align the blade with the grain. Sadly I dont possess a block of end grain.
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Tim I've never thought of it as skivvying. Anyway for the last 11 years since he retired Peter has done it all, except sometimes when I was allowed to help. I was thinking more of common perceptions than my feelings. Also I love teasing Derek though he rarely rises to the challenge d**n him!
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Derek - you don't actually use a KNIFE for paring?
There's only one tool for the job??
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Again, I cannot get on with those tools, but I am happy with a small convex ground knife ... (carrots excepted). When young, I used to peel the spuds and carrots etc for tea, so perhaps certain approaches are ingrained ...
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Got him out of retirement at least!!
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:)
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You done good Tim the guy was becoming a recluse!!!! Weren't you Derek!!!!!
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And he does carrot & courgette strip salad with a KNIFE??
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Derek, is it a left handed thing with these paring tools? I cannot use some serrated knives and try as I might I can't get the hang of those wobbly peelers.
We bought a knife (serrated) at the Ideal Home Exhibition 35 years ago, it was advertised as never needing sharpening and was true to the blurb. We ditched it last year as the handle broke.
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Knives terrify me ! I only have two..and they are in a drawer under the counter and sink where I take them out , use them, wash them up and put the dangerous things away again without moving from the spot ! Rohaise
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i love my knife (a sabatier) which my mum bought me but i am really rubbish at sharpening it. i usually get father in law to do it. i am miserable when its is not sharp. a blunt knife is a dangerous beast.