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Produce => Recipes => Topic started by: tim on June 06, 2007, 08:40:49
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How different in real terms is a can of beef or chicken stock from a dissolved cube?
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???
Wish I knew! Have often wondered myself, must read the label next time I see some.
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And how different again is home-made stock with home-grown veggies in?
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lots of salt in cubes i think !
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ok hubby again to the rescue says that there is absolutely no substitute for home made stock however if what is available in the tin is home made stock or the equivalent with little salt then it is far superior to cubes you can also use boullion but all pre prepared ones are salty (not sure about tin ones as there are so many) all add flavour but home made wins hands downs.
might not be able to help with gardening questions but have my own expert on food so ask away :D
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Good!
Yes, I always make my own when the goods are there. How else can you get the jelly! (***)
What I'm trying to clarify is whether a Cube is dehydrated bought-in ready-made Stock - ie the same thing without the water?? If so, you're paying a lot for the water!!
And, with Cubes, yes -- I always go for 'low salt' &/or Organic.
(***) Added this remark after the rest & perhaps I've partially answered my own question??
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Could you not look at the ingredients ?
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Quite a good idea, really! For example:
Stock. Beef Stock 6%, Beef Bouillon 5%. (What's the difference, please?)
Cube. Beef Fat 3%. Powdered Beef 4%.
In both cases plus Vegetable Stock or Extracts.
Just wondered whether they start in the same way as we do, with the real ingredients, & then 'spin dry'.
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Missed the point a bit there.
Which is - discounting the amount of salt, are you really getting something very much better paying £1.45 for a can, rather than a cube (same end quantity) at 1/6th the price.
If not, why buy water??
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I ALWAYS make stock from leftover carcass bones - although I do use the cubes in emergencys.
I personally PREFER to use reduced, home-made stock than a salty stock cube.
Debs :)
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I prefer the stock from a raw carcass/bones.
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I like to use raw bones, especially beef and well brown them on a high heat in the oven, then make them into stock. Half an hour in the prssure cooker.
Tim, re cubes versus cans. I rarely use either but I have noticed that some brands of tinned seems to taste less man made than the cube if that makes any sense.However the price makes a difference so considering that in too I would probably use a cube rather than a cheap tinned,or a better quality tinned which can be expensive.
xx Jeannine
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We always make our own, it is far superior and we have control over the salt content. We make about 5-6 litres at a time about every three weeks and freeze it.
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How do you freeze 5/6litres please.
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In 5 or six one-litre containers :) :) :)
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I'm not going to attempt to answer Tim's question but, with regard to freezing large quantites, after boiling and straining the stock, I drastically reduce it to maybe about a third or a quarter the original volume before freezing it in small containers. I doubt I'd even fit five or six litres in my freezer, even before the bean/ tomato/ harvest comes along. :-\
As an aside, I would guess that the dominating taste of bought-in stock is good old monosodium glutamate (E621 from memory). Asian stores usually have it if you need it.
Geoff.
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How different in real terms is a can of beef or chicken stock from a dissolved cube?
I know a little about the manufacture of canned soups and bouillon, but nothing about stock cubes.
But I found this amazingly frank ;D website: http://www.stock-cubes.com/formulas.html which tells you how to start manufacturing stock cubes. They have nothing to do with stock, and a lot to do with flavourings and colourings (and of course MSG).
If you buy a canned or bottled liquid product it may well have dried ingredients, flavourings, and colourings in it, but it won't be exclusively artificial. By and large, the more you spend, the higher will be the proportion of "real" meat and veg. But the meat may well be bulk-canned (preserved beef and chicken are imported from the Far East and South America for this purpose). The stock will have been pressure cooked, which can impart an odd odour and flavour, and the fats may well have started to oxidise, which makes it taste slightly rancid.
Of course, home-made isn't necessarily perfect. If you boil bones for too long, you get off-flavours. The fat content of home-made meat and chicken stocks will tend to be high, and the danger of rancidity, even in the freezer, is correspondingly increased, especially as home cooks don't use anti-oxidants.
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Very helpful.
So one does not need the actual meat in anything - just the smell of it?
Rather like this - does it say FISH anywhere?
And still can't figure the difference between Bouillon & Stock??
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I've always understood a "bouillon" to be a clear liquid, whereas stock can be cloudy or thick.
The label from your can is interesting. Apart from the tomato puree and the herbs & spices it looks as though it's entirely artificial. I guess that in that case you might just as well use a cube!
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Or make your own :P :P :P
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Of COURSE!
But one does need a fall back position.
Oh, I see that Marigold say Vegetable Bouillon - Instant Stock!!
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I think bouillon and stock are terms used to indicate similar things, with a rather broad brush approach.
The following is a good starting point for food anoraks such as myself ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouillon_cube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouillon_cube)
Not to be confused with Court Bouillon ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-bouillon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court-bouillon)
Hope this helps, rather than confuses ...
Derek :)
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Yes - in ever decreasing circles!!
Found one similar to that that I meant to post this am.
All of interest - to me! I still believe that we ought to know what we're eating.
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From the first link, I followed to the broth link, and extracted this comment ...
Stock is made with bones. Broth is made using meat.
I associate broth with bouillon ... unless it is identified as of vegetable origin.
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What a bicep!!
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there is absolutely no difference between boullion and stock they are the same apparently you just get different brands with different additives both are used to make stock. cubes are a little more convenient as you open them singly where as with boullion you tend to open the whole jar and it has a limited life then boullion comes in both paste and powder/granule forms too. all in all cant beat home made
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Going back to when I read "The Science of Food" about 10 years ago, so forgive grey-cell failure... MSG is perfectly acceptable as a flavour enhancer (and in fact occurs naturally in all meat - by combining with other Amino acids, it helps to determine the taste of all meats) - the trouble is when it is used as a flavouring (it has roughly 10 times the potency when mixed with other Amino acids). It is still labeled as an enhancer, and I reckon they separate it out into stock & bullion so they can put in twice as much thinking we won't notice.
Food labelling allows you to add whatever is in the ingredients naturally - so boiled fish can have a significant amount of MSG added.
I often use a small amount of a stock cube to bring out the flavour of a dull piece of meat - but far less than prescribed by the manufacturer. You really wouldn't know it was there if used correctly (well, my foodie friends can't, anyway!).
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I often use a small amount of a stock cube to bring out the flavour of a dull piece of meat
Ollie - WHERE DO YOU BUY YOUR MEAT????
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Whenever I try to simplify something to bring it within my range of understanding, it always has hidden depths. But its fun!
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I often use a small amount of a stock cube to bring out the flavour of a dull piece of meat
Ollie - WHERE DO YOU BUY YOUR MEAT????
Well, if we plan badly & leave it until Sunday, there's only supermarket stuff on offer. But otherwise, say you're doing a pot roast Lamb Shank, bung in a quarter of a beef stock cube (far less than the packet would tell you) & it will make the taste of lamb much stronger without bugring it up. I know a Michelin star'd chef who does this but would probably never admit to it (I spotted the cubes in her kitchen & laughed at her).
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Ollie, your planning is cr*p. You have a farmers market in Guildford. Go there to buy your meat. Make friends with the stall holders. Use your freezer. Plan your meals in advance. We haven't eaten supermarket meat for about five years, and we can honestly say that each meal is "The Best". We NEVER throw away stuff because it's too tough, stringy or "dull". If good husbandry has been practised, the meat is hung for long enough, then you will always get good meat. I am passionate about this, we never throw away food because it's not good, the only stuff I buy from the "English Mafia" is cleaning stuff (some) and pistachio nuts. :) :) :) :) :)
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Ha! Thanks Asbean. We are also lucky enough to have a very good "normal" market for fruit & veg. I know a couple of the guys on the farmers market... And we have half a Roe Deer (shot by my uncle on his fruit farm for worrying his asparagus) plus about half of half a lamb in the freezer from a farmer friend near Shere, plus some bits of Aberdeen Angus that I met when they were calves from near to Godalming... The salmon & sea trout also hogging freezer space sadly has to be flown in (well, posted) from North Uist, although I'm fortunate enough to have been to the Smoke House & met the farm owner.
I didn't make my point very well - all I was saying is that stock cubes have a place in the kitchen. And if you use the whole animal, some bits will be a bit dull compared to others. Also, we seldom know who'll be visiting on a Sunday until the day before, so planning isn't as easy as one would wish. I appreciate your concern for my lack of organisation. I do my best to blame the wife.
I agree with you entirely - esp. about hanging meat - lots of supermarket beef would be perfectly good if hung properly. Having said this, it's very hard to hang beef for more than 21 days, due to potential hygiene issues (according to a farmer I know near to Godalming), so me & apparently several good chefs always leave it in the fridge for a week before cooking (a tip given to me by aforementioned Michelin star chef).
We get nuts, cleaning stuff, baby wipes, cheddar & beer from them so are not as wholesome as you, but we're giving it a go... One day, maybe... ;)
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Ollie - OK, sorry, your planning isn't really what I said it was!! How about cooking lamb shanks slowly - don't use stock cubes - use red wine. We also use a soffritto which is finely chopped onion, carrot and celery, lightly fried then flour and fry the meat on all sides, then add 1/2 to 1 bottle of the red stuff. (or one bottle minus a large slurp for the cook). Add a bouquet garni, cover with foil and cook at the lowest oven temperature, for about 8 hours. You don't need to gut the meat - it falls off the bones.
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Sounds good - but you forgot to bung in a bit of a stock cube! Everybody likes a good Lamb Shank now & again... oo-er, better not descend to the watershed... ;D
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That doesn't need a stock cube - believe me!
(BTW, off topic, sorry, but did you ever go to get my sister's manure?)
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(BTW, off topic, sorry, but did you ever go to get my sister's manure?)
Remaining off topic - no, it's on my list of things to do... hasn't really been the weather for shovelling poo - not even your sister's stuff!
We're away for a week next week, I'll give her a call after that if that's okay...
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;D ;D ;D It'll still be there ;D ;D ;D
Have a good week away - hope the weather doesn't put a dampener on it ???