Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: scottcara on May 25, 2007, 16:29:38
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Hi all. I'm a beginner and I'm very puzzled to weather or not to rotivate my new plot witch is over grown at the minute. its approx 300sq m and hasn't been worked for some time.
My idea was to start by strimming it down then rotivating it all before covering with plastic sheeting for the time being while i get my plot set out, build shed etc.
Could anyone shed any light on this subject or offer any advice.
many thanks scott.
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I'm prejudiced, so better start by doing a SEARCH (in the toolbar above) for rotovating.
Enough to keep you busy for a few minutes!!
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We prefer the fork method...
:-\
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Do it by hand or you will make 10x more work for yourself. If you rotovate then you chop all the weeds into hundreds of little pieces then each little piece of the hundred become a weed. Voila: 100 times more weeds to remove than before you started. Yes it looks good after rotovation because the ground looks cleared quickly - but it sharp fills with more weeds quicker too.
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As I said, I'm prejudiced.
1. Any digging will bring up the weed seeds of generations.
2. It is said that, if you don't allow couch to grow more than 4" before chopping it, it will disappear.
3. I could not have coped with our first bit - given that, for 14 years, I had 1 1/2 days a week at home - without a rotovator.
This is the difference 7 months made. And I do not believe that we have an inordinate legacy of nasties. I'm prejudiced!!
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We hired one for the weekend for £70 for 5 days from HSS and never looked back.. We used roundup 2 weeks before to give it a head start then rotivated the beds down to about 10 inches...
As long as you go over the area with a rack and pick out the roots that are alive you should be OK. We have 10 beds each 2m by 5m, 1 we did completely by hand the other 9 by munching machine...... To be honest, we would never have managed to do all 10 by hand.... to demoralising.
Both side of the argument win and lose. Flip a coin....
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Given the current state of my poor aching back, I'd say yes in a moment, but I know (from the experts on here) that I mustn't and I will continue with spade and fork and lots of elbow grease.
Sadly Tim, my previous tenant (and association) did allow the couch grass to grow more than 4" and it's running everywhere.
I thought I'd "just turn over" the bit that I thought I'd cleared and ended up digging the whole patch again and brought out another sack roots that just seemed to go on forever. I've tried so hard to get the spaghetti ones as well, but I know there are still plenty in there.
There I was thinking I'd have the whole plot dug in a weekend.
:'(
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The council strimmed my plot, then I've used roundup on half of it. Three weeks later it was clear which perrenials it didn't get, so I've been spot weeding these out, then next weekend I'm going to get a rotivator if the weather is good enough to go over it. The other half I am digging by hand slowly, part of this half has bindweed and I really don't want to rotivate over that. The other plus is I've been able to plant up as I go in the hand dug section, which is a bit of a morale boost to know I have achieved something, rather than just waiting for the roundup to do its thing.
It will be interesting to see which end is more weed free over the next few months.
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Dig by hand or you will be fighting the weeds for the next year or so. ;D ;D ;D
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I rotivated and yes I have weeds but so does the lady that does it by hand. I think if you want to see progress in a short time rotivate then cover with black plastic and hand dig small patches that you can manage. At least that way wil get some veg this year if you work full time.
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I think I may be a masochist - so be warned before you read this!
My personal opinion is that unless you know what weeds you have on our patch you shouldn't rotovate. Basically because you can spread all the nasties around which make it a b****r to sort out. I also know you can't dig couch grass and horsetail out. But I have not found yet a successful weedkiller.
So I truly believe the only way is to dig the weeds out initially and then persevere in the isolated spots where there is a lot of perennials. Andy es the old timers at the lottie laugh at me too!
Still digging..... :D
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I found the secret if you are going to rotovate is to plant it up straight away and hope the plants beat the weeds in growth.
Years down the line, I would never rotovate but then I have been digging for the past 20 years and still have bindweed in abundance :o
I also don't like the thought of chopping all those poor worms into little pieces now. ;D
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If you are capable and the back can take it using a spade and fork to me is the best way. However if you feel the need to use a rotavator then go for it. How about dividing the plot in two, hand dig one half and rotavate the other. After several weeks post the results of which one worked best for you. Which ever way you choose good luck DD.
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I'm saying nothing. Narthing. :P
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Irrespective of whether you rotovate or not, covering in thick black plastic is always beneficial.
Your choice depends on :
1) are you up to digging a whole plot
2) are you organic
3) do you want to plant this year - its getting on a bit now - longest day in 3.5 weeks
If the answer to 3 is No, then cover & leave for at least a month, then start digging as you feel fit. Within just a month the top growth will start to die off. If you can, leave until the Autumn.
You don't have to dig the whole plot in one go. It took me two winters to clear my plot by fork - but I'm glad I did it that way - I KNOW there are no perennial roots in my plot (God knows I shifted enough bindweed to feed an army) , and this winter, I can rotovate rather than dig without any problems.
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Good morning guys. iv just woken and logged on for my second day on a4a and found a dozen replies to my questions.
This site is great and thank you so much every one for your advice.
Cheers Scott :)
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you normally only need wait a few minutes for a handfull of replys....
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just make sure you have nothing like Mares tail present as if your rotorvate you'll wish you hadn't!
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Don't talk to me about mares tail its everywhere. :'( :( >:( ;D ;D ;D
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i'm finding the black roots but am having a hard job finding the top growth !!!! :o
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I've been digging by fork today and managed to fill an old compost bag with couch grass roots from an area of only 8ft by 3ft. :o
Rotovating would have chopped all that up and made it a nightmare to get out.
I also removed a sieveful of stones.
So I would definitely go for digging by hand.
I'm digging a bit then planting a bit, otherwise I won't get anything planted.
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Mares tail is he bain of my life, i'm filling bags and bags of the stuff wether it be the black roots or the top growth its everywhere!
its so fustrating when you get a good row of something coming up and all of a sudden you get mares tail popping up through it, and its always at the base of the plant whatever it may be!
All i do now is keep diggng it out or chopping it back if i have stuff set, unless there are any other ideas
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I took on an over grown lotty last year! the dandylion roots were like super size carrots and totally covered the plot! i did not rotovate as i believe it would have made it ten times worse! i pain stakingly dug bit by bit and so far so good ;D
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I had an allotment at the previous address. I tried to dig that and like everyone ended up with bags and bags of bindweed. However, there was one brilliant plot there and when I asked what the owner had done i was given the full run down
It seems that he went most evenings for about an hour and just dug the ground. This was done by piling the soil up in one place. he was also there at the weekends and each visit he either added a bag of horse manure or a bag of sand (the soil was clay). Once he had dug out one spit he took the soil down another level and put the soil on the pile.
he then moved the pile to one end of the plot so that he could dig underneath it. he then moved the pile to the other end. Sort of mixing it up and taking out any big stones. I suspect he also took out any weed roots that were still there.
I understand that this took up the best part of 12 months but when he started to grow veges, well it beat the pants off anyone else in the allotment. Also he did not dig the garden again but just used the hoe.
So if you have the time, horse manure, sand, muscles and can wait- well you know what to do.
By the way he was working on the M25 at the time driving one of those earth moving machines.
so happy digging i think.
Bill Door
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Man you know what? I wanted to do mine all by hand but was so anxious to get planting, and the ground was so hard, that we rotovated most of the plot. I'd lovve to say if we got all the weeds out of ours that would be it, but they are all over the unused plots as well and will probably seed/run into ours again anyway!! So I prefer to at least be able to pull the roots out of the ground as we can now after rotovating :)
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My first plot full of marestail I rotovated. I spent the following year digging out 10x as many as there were the year before I had rotavated. Lesson learnt the hard way. :( :( :(
On my new plot: having spent most of last year painstakingly digging marestail and other stuff by hand I am now so pleased I did. I get the odd one poking through here and there, but with 10 minutes checking & weeding three times weekly - pleased to say it was time well spent.
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Why do they always come up in the middle of my bloody carrots >:( :'( ;D ;D ;D
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I did a bit of all suggestions when I took over my plot last August....!! ;D
I walked over the plot and dug out the docks and dandelions by hand as best I could.
One part with bindweed I cut off the top growth and covered with carpet for eight months, and used it as a construction area. Now covered with a thick layer of manure ready for squashes soon, very little regrowth so far.
The riddled with couch grass area I sprayed with Amcide, waited 6 weeks then dug over the areas where I was making raised beds, removing the couch roots as I went. These beds had 3 bags of mushroom compost rotovated into them.
The other side of the plot was dug over bit by bit as I moved various plants to other areas, thick mulch of manure, which was rotovated in in March just before potatoes planted. There are a few bits of couch that keep popping up, but nothing like it was before.
The choice is yours! ;D
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Can someone please clarify the couch grass 4 inch thing please.Does it mean if I have couch grass and cut it down before it gets 4 inches high it will die off??
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In theory, yes. It may take repeated attempts before it dies off...it's tough stuff!
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That sounds too easy though, so need to get this right,if I chop it off before it gets to 4 inches and I do it regularly,it will die.
Am I right?
Anybody know how long,would it die off in one season if I was really dilligent?
XX Jeannine
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Don't know, someone near me tried it on their plot but only rotovated twice, and it has mostly all grown back...... :-\
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FIL is toying with hiring a heavy duty one for his plot as he is finding it hard going (he had a hernia op earlier this year) & has suggested that we share it which DH is very keen to do as our plot is very uneven & as he is doing all the digging atm Im inclined to let him ;D...but we have 2 fairly large patches of horseradish in amongst the couch & really dont want them rotatvated so will probably get him to remove most of them first or get him to steer round them ;)
Saz
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Many years ago I planted a block of sunflowers (don't ask me why) on a plot that was completely infested with couch and bindweed. This block was the entire width of the plot and square say roughly 8m x 8m and the sunflower seed was from the petshop for feeding the birds. I was expecting these to grow to about 6' high but they all made at least double that. When the patch was cleared in the autumn, the soil was completely bare and free from all traces of weed. Maybe it was the lack of sunlight, maybe lack of water or perhaps sunflowers are toxic to weeds. ;D
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Jerusalem artichokes, which are an edible sunflower, did much the same to weeds on part of my plot. I think they just shaded them out, but I may be wrong.
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We have a very large lovely bit that is completely couch grass free, it is where we did the bonfire on Guy Fawkes night, the only time of the year we are allowed one,the ground is smashing there.
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This year I moved plots.
My old plot did not have any couch grass.The reason it didnt have any was because I spent many hours on my knees digging the stuff out until eventually(after about 3 years) it had all gone.
My new plot has got couch grass in some places.....guess what i will be doing for the next 3 years? ;D