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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: gwencross on May 31, 2004, 09:54:17
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I am thinking of trying dilute washing up liquid on my broad beans----ie the black fly. Has any one tried this and with what results? Any better ideas using kitchen stuff?
thanks GG
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The washing up liquid (or soft soap) spray for black fly should work. Remember to spray either early morning or in the evening so to avoid scorching the plant. Also, you should, if you haven't already, pinch out the growing point tops of the broad beans. If you have ants "milking" the blackfly, try putting some jam (what Bob Flowerdew does!) which the ants will then take (as they have a sweet tooth - do ants have teeth??). The ants would otherwise protect the blackfly from predators.
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I was just going to post the same topic!! I've just spotted blackfly on my Broad Beans as well as on the growing tips of my redcurrants; I know the washing up liquid works on greenfly so I'll have a go at the black ones tomorrow, don't want to use insecticide so lets hope it works ;)
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Does washing up liquid actually have soap in it or is a detergent? I'm not sure what all is in washing up liquid so I'd rather stick with real soap.
I always use soft soap, the green/gold stuff that comes in a little tub and put a little bit of spirit with it. It works but you have to repeat the treatment after two or three days!
How much do I use? About two table spoons of soft soap and one tablespoon of spirit in a 1 liter spray bottle I think.
Actually I do a glob of soap with my hand and a small glurk of spirit, mix well with warm water and fill the spray bottle with it.
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Ina, I am glad to see that you are as scientific as me! ;)
I seem to have got away with no blackfly so far this year (touching wood, spitting and whistling, crossing fingers and toes) so haven't yet pinched the tops out. Are there any benefits for pinching the tops, like do they branch and produce more beans?
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I think pinching out concentrates the bean's resources on the pods.... Beans perhaps then are slightly earlier.
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I like the idea of adding spirit to the mixture. Is this Meth or white or even alcoholic? Perhaps that would rule out the need for any thing else and make the beans taste interesting.
Does anyone know if there are nasties in the washing up liquid? I really dont want to spend out for soft soap if I can help it.
Incidentally. A lovely drop of rain at the moment.
thanks Gwen
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Washing up liquid IS detergent and should not be used - it will harm the plants.
Use either soft soap or soap flakes with a touch of washing soda
I was told that the aphids have a waxy skin and the soap disolves it - as they breathe through their skin, they suffocate
I just thought you'd like to know that!
Either of the soapy solution work well but even they can harm some plants (more than one application scorches fuchsia leaves) so try them out carefully on anything decorative
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Just to back up Phil -I used Ecover washing up liquid diluted as a spray last year (as I couldn't find soft soap) and it killed the Nasturtiums I sprayed it on, and very nearly killed the peppers (they dropped most of their leaves).
Jeremy
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Isn't 'Derris' liquid a natural product? It's for use on plants including food plants.
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Derris is a plant based product which, like soft soap, has "qualified approval" from the HDRA.
That means it can be used when moving from a conventional regime to fully organic or in emergencies, but should not form part of the normal way of working in an organic garden.
Derris is very poisonous stuff and kills a large number of insects so should be used in the evenings when the beneficials has gone yo beddy bies - it also is lethal to fish, so don't use it near ponds
Phil
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I tried using washing up liquid spray against greenfly on my osteos that were overwintering on the kitchen window sill. I had four plants, now I have none. They all withered and died but the greenfly didn't.
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Soft soap works much better than washing up liquid - as it dries, it seals up the spiracles & suffocates the aphids. W-u-l helps to dislodge them, but in my experience it's not much better than spraying with plain water.
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Why risk using detergent when soap flakes are sitting on the shelves in places like Tesco's??
Ecover is enviro friendly as it breaks down in the sewage system but it certainly ain't plant friendly!!!
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If there aren't too many of the blighters - finger & fumb do the job
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This gives the explaination that concurs with what I have always been told:
http://chattanoogarose.org/Soaps%20and%20Detergents.htm
As someone who has managed to defoliate both Fuchsias and peppers (among others) with both dishwashing liquid and 'Safer's' soap (a commercially avilable insecticidal soap over here) I am well aware of the similar effects of both. The way I have overcome this is to spray late in the evening to avoid the phytotoxicity (which also works best for whitefly as the adults don't fly off so promptly at this time) problems, or to immediately spray the plants with pure water to dilute the liquid to such an extent it no longer reacts with the leaf waxes.
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Thanks for that John.
So my information about soaps suffocating the little blighters is possibly true.
A couple of points though,
1. the brands of soaps are presumably the US flavour (flavor ;D) and the UK/European versions may be differently formulated so may have better (or worse) effects on both insects and plants.
2. All soaps, but detergents to a greater extent, effect the leaves of plants (especially, as we both have experienced, fuchsias)
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Two rather silly questions:
1. What name do soap flakes go under in the supermarket (simply soap flakes?) and where are they sold (with washing up liquid, stuff for washing machines ... sorry showing my ignorance here)
2. I've got quite a bad infestation on my broad beans. The beans have started to form but the plants are trying to throw out more flowers from the top ... if I nip out the tops I'll be nipping out all the new flowers and reduce my yield. So what if I do nothing? Do the blackfly actually attack the bean pods aswell?
Please be gentle!
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1. Soap flakes - in packets like washing powder, and probably somewhere near them (they are in my Tesco)
2. You can reduce them considerably by squashing them with fingers and thumb (a bit messy if there are lots) or spraying with plain water will knock (most of) them off. In a bad infestation they will cover the young bean as well.
Phil
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The recipe is 2oz of flakes disolved in a small amount of hot water then made up to 2galls with cold water (+2oz of washing soda - not caustic soda - so that's a small amount to 50mils (enough to make it very soapy) add one crystal of washing soda, if you have it, (again, from Tesco, or a hardware shop) and use straight away as it tends to solidify if you leave it.
I know cos I've tried it
According to John's website slices from a bar of soap should also work, but I haven't tried that and don't know of anyone that has
Phil
I now normally use soft soap - a tub cost me ~£2.50 from the HDRA shop at Ryton and I've only used half of it in 3 years!!!!
2 heaped teaspoons to a small amount of warm water then toip up to 1litre with cold
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Usually the stuff you'd use for ultra-delicates, Lux or Dreft - but the packet will say "soap flakes"
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The "posh" soap flakes will have a brand name like Dreft or Lux but will include the words soap flakes on the packet.
The cheaper, generic packets will be called "xxxxx Soap Flakes" or something similar
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Whatever 'flavour' is tried it is most important that a trial is conducted on a few leaves before the whole plant gets sprayed. Presently I am using 'Dawn' (the leading brand over here) "plus hand care" formulation (not my hands that were hoping to be protected I add!) which I have never used before. Even my test spray was applied with trepidation but no problems were detected so I have carried on using it. I doubt if U.K. flavours can have any less, or more, chance of toxicity compared to the myriad formulations available over here!
Would napalm, judiciously applied of course, work?
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Hmm, found this topic better late than never - I just today removed the tops (ok, top third) of some of my Crimson flowered broad beans as they were totally black with the miserable blighters. Funny thing though - there are hardly any blackfly on the others in the four rows. Just a couple of completely infested plants.
Will acquire some soap flakes asap and do a few test squirts before any more major breakouts occur.
and does anyone else suffer with little thrip type things that eat into the base of the broad bean flower? A lot of the earliest flowers haven't set as they get nibbled into before they've barely opened.
(Am willing to test napalm on local pigeon population... please send test samples in plain wrapping)
~Kris
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3 fields near me have been planted with filed beans.really affected one being a few
I checked at the weekend and some are afflicted with blackfly but one may be covered (the top half being black over in the worst cases and the bean alonside have little or no evidence of the beasts. The next affected stalk can be up to 5 yds away
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I put two idle ladybirds on the only bean stem affected with blackfly. A few seconds later they were attacked by ants and driven off....so I blasted the plant with a pressure water bottle! Umph!
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Thanks for all the help re treatments for the B.fly. Mine have been zapped with an ad hoc mixture of soap and water. They have grown away from the affected parts and it looks like I might get a later crop.
The most successful plants flowered early at the base of the stem. Later sowings flowered higher up and got caught by the aphids. Why might this be?
Thanks again Gwen.
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My winter sown broadbeans, no blackfly at all, my spring sown ones, today, infested! :o I wonder if the spring sown ones are softer as they haven't had the mean winter weather to toughen them up like the winter sown ones, and the black fly like them tender?
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But the spring sown ones do taste better than the overwintering ones!!!
So blackfly are not so stupid. ;)
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Perhaps the spring sown ones tast better because of the blackfly?!!!
well, to add my 2p worth to this discussion, I've just picked up my tub of soft soap, ordered from the chemist, today. I was bit surprised when I opened it, it really does look like swarfega! Preparing for a blackfly massacre tonight...
however, in the last couple of weeks I have been spraying about once every 4 days with water/few drops of fairy liquid, and fortunately haven't seen any ill effects from it on any of the beans.
It's noticable that since I attacked the blighters the broad beans put on a huge spurt of growth, but that really could be just the time of year and therefore coincidental - the weeds are growing like there's no tomorrow at the moment as well.
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Phil - I read somewhere that overwintering ones taste better than spring sown ones. Suppose everyone's taste buds are different... I can't quibble with the taste of the overwintered ones.
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Nor me MV, had some tonite, blanched, then de-skinned and sprinkled over our salad of freshly cut biondi and red frissly lettuce. Yumsky!
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I needed to get rid of blackfly from runner bean plants. No way would I use derris on plants that are about to flower.
Rightly or wrongly i have used diluted washing up liquid (on an overcast day). I think i will soon rinse it off with a water spray after a few hours have passed.
I will let you know how i get on.