Allotments 4 All
Produce => Pests & Diseases => Topic started by: Laurdan on March 19, 2007, 12:48:35
-
Can anyone advise me? I have decided to take on an allotment with two others.
The plot has not been used for sometime. It is just wild grass at the moment, how would you recommend we start. Firstly we have to get rid of the grass, any suggestions? Should I use roundup? I have been told to mow the grass and then use roundup, I am concerned that this may not be a good idea for a vegetable plot. All suggestions greatly appreciated.
-
Hi and welcome to A4A! Lots of helpful peeps on here to give advice, also use the search function to look for answers on similar posts...
I've just taken on an overgrown lottie so am probably in similar boat - do you have any pics to show us? My friendly plot neighbours have recently sprayed my grassy plot with roundup, they said its the only one they allow on the site. It took just over a week to start working and now most of the grass is yellow and dead and ready for raking up. I would recommend it as otherwise you will be digging for quite a while! At first I didn't want to have it sprayed but now I have and it will be giving me a great headstart, much needed at this time of year!
:)
-
Is roundup harmful to the produce that I will hopefully grow on the plot afterwards?
-
not sure,laurdan, but i thought it became inactive in the soil once it has been taken up by the stuff you want to get rid of, if that makes sense! :)
-
thank you
-
For all intents and purposes it is safe for what you are planning.
I am led to believe it leaves a small salt deposit, but providing you are not using it continuously this is negligable and does no harm.
I will point out one application is unlikely to kill off the most pernicious weeds eg Dandelion, Dock, Couch & Nettles but it may weaken them.
The best way to get rid of these is to dig them out.
A note on application times, it is best applied when the weeds are young and growing fast. It needs to be applied in dry weather or at least a couple of hours before rain so that the active ingredients have time to dry into the plants system.
-
hello there, it all depends if you want to be a totally organic garden. Its hard and sometimes demoralising when bugs or diseases get your crops, but knowing that no chemicals etc are being used on them is so so good. Hard work but get digging
dave P
-
Roundup can be appealing to new plot holders (I was tempted!) but it's not as safe as Monsanto would like gardeners to think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GTARW.php
-
Roundup can be appealing to new plot holders (I was tempted!) but it's not as safe as Monsanto would like gardeners to think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/GTARW.php
I hope you are aware that neither of the websites shown can be said to be truly objective in their views.
Whilst it can be understood that very few people would choose to use a substance that may be harmful, a balanced decision must be taken. Like all manufactured compounds, there can be danger if manufacturer's instructions are not followed. Similar environmental dangers and dangers to human life can be said to apply to many activities that take place on allotments, like for example, the burning of waste vegetable products and scrap wood, particularly hardwood, the use of plastics as ground coverings, the handling and storage of animal manures, horticultural fleece, etc, etc - the list is endless if you really examine the production processes and carcinogenic effects oif these substances and activities.
I post this only as a balance to the views stated by onionhead, and post it as a holder of a pesticide licence who is reluctant to, and rarely actually uses, any pesticides at all, but who tries to make herself aware of the entire picture of how our activities affect things.
-
Yep, fair dos. Slightly missing the point, though, which is this: Monsanto appears to have gone out of its way to suppress concerns about the potential risks of Roundup, not only regarding soil contamination but towards human health as well. (This is, after all, the multi-billion dollar company which brought us agent orange and pioneered terminator seeds and other GM crops.)
It's difficult to make a balanced decision when not all the facts or dangers are known.
-
I hold a certificate for applying pesticides/weedkillers and such. We used to use some deadly stuff which is now been banned, but anything you buy over the counter should now be okay. Roundup is very safe providing you apply it sensibly. It neutalises when it touches the soil and will only affect the plants, we had to carry a bag of fine soil, just in case we were stupid enough to put it in our mouths then we were supossed to eat the soil to stop it doing any damage.
Please read and understand the instructions, don't add 'one for the pot'. The dilution rates have been worked out very carefully and will work. Tougher weeds might need 'spotting'.
If you are next to other plots. clear it with your neighbours first as they might be fully organic and even the slightest breeze can drift it .
Most important, try and find out if anybody has weedkilled it in the last year, you never know if somebody has used a bit of stuff from the back of their shed, it might not have even worked, but could still be lurking. KEEP A RECORD.
-
Thank you all so much for your help and ideas.
I yesterday sprayed into my allotment 'Roundup'. I shall now wait 1-2 weeks to see how it goes. It was a beautiful day and I followed the instructions strictly.
I have arranged to use a rotivator for the next hurdle of banishing the wild grass.
Again any ideas always welcome.
Once again thank you all. :)
-
Ahhhhhhhh!! the joys of gardening ;D
I have enjoyed reading this thread and the various points of view wish such facilities had been about when I started up!
Just think of ; DDT, Paraquat, Temik, Nicotine, Calomel dust, Benlate, Chlorophos just to name a few
Ahhhhh!! these were the days!! 8)
-
Oh Tee Gee , when we bought out the old guy next door to us when he had to give up we actually found Paraquat, fortunately I am not so young and I knew what it was. We had a dickens of job finding someplace to take it. It had to have been 30 years old!!!
XX Jeannine
-
Laurdan,
Don't know where you are situated, but support the use of Glyphosate in your position with starting your plot. However, depending on your weather conditions, it may take six weeks for it to be effective - so please be patient.
-
I am in St Albans, Herts.
I went over to the allotment today. Nothing has changed. :( :(
The grass is the same colour. It has not yet been a week but I thought I may have seen a small change.
I know I must be patient, but I thought the grass may have gone slightly yellow?????
-
my oh used what he called 'gramoxin'(spelling) in the yard,next to my veggie garden a few months ago >:(
I have now cleared the veggies out and dumped them and refuse to grow anything this year to eat >:(
anybody ever heard of this stuff ???
-
Not sure about ROUNDUP but for DEEP-ROOT you need to wait 6 weeks before planting. It is a similar product so I would suggest to read the small-print on the packaging. ;)
-
my oh used what he called 'gramoxin'(spelling) in the yard,next to my veggie garden a few months ago >:(
I have now cleared the veggies out and dumped them and refuse to grow anything this year to eat >:(
anybody ever heard of this stuff ???
Gramoxone 100 - contains paraquat. It is only legally available for use by those licensed to apply pesticides. Gramoxone is being withdrawn and will be illegal to have stocks of it after 31/12/07.
Here's the manufacturer's product safety guide.
http://www.syngenta-crop.co.uk/PG/GRAMOXONE100/
-
Not sure about ROUNDUP but for DEEP-ROOT you need to wait 6 weeks before planting. It is a similar product so I would suggest to read the small-print on the packaging. ;)
"Deep Root" comes in many different types, some of which contain glyphosate and some ammonium sulphamate. NO Deep Root product is approved for use on edible plants, so it should not be used where you intend to grow foodstuffs.
-
"Deep Root" comes in many different types, some of which contain glyphosate and some ammonium sulphamate. NO Deep Root product is approved for use on edible plants, so it should not be used where you intend to grow foodstuffs.
I would agree to a point but after time it totally dissolves. When I changed plots last spring, the new ground needed loads of work. I cleared and made 2 applications of Deeproot. Only 1/4 of the plot had stuff planted in it. Admittedly the remainder has been left empty whilst I cleared & prepared the ground for this year. I have used deeproot to clear previous plots and had no problems growing - though I did wait for 2 months before putting anything in the area treated.
-
Personally I don't use anything but when making enquiries a few years ago when turning a lawn into a veggie patch I was told by some very careful gardeners that there advice was to use nothing but if I must then use Roundup was the only one they would even consider as apparently you can plant in it very quickly. That's all I have,
XX Jeannine
-
anyone heard of a product called burn, it's something farmers have access to, someone on our site used it, it's a very strong weedkiller, the bloke next to him isn't amused, it went on some of his rhubarb :)
-
Just like to add, don't buy Roundup, buy store's own brand glyphosate, eg Wilkos is at least half the price of Roundup. Also, more and more pesticides are withdrawn each year, what is deemed safe today may be discovered to be lethal in ten years time. Just a thought. :-\
-
yay, agree with above, buy wilkinson's own glyphosate, its much cheeper. Not sure I'd use it on a veg bed though if I could avoid it, but I must confess to using it on paths when desperate (i've been told it becomes inert on contact with the soil).
-
Hi all
Well I've now used a rotivator to turn over the beds, It all looks great I am in the process of fencing the plot in, to keep the rabbits out and I worked in the manure today. It is looking real good. I have sowed in trays, spring onions, beetroot, carrots, brussels, cabbages and lettuce. Can't wait to put them in.
Thanks for all your support
-
Hope you've got before and after photos ...
-
Got to admit we didn't :(.
Having trouble buying resonably priced chicken wire. Managed to get some from Wilkinson's but they are always sold out. I paid 5.99 for it in Wilko's, I know B&Q do it but it is 15.99 for the same stuff. Any suggestions?
I am about to try the internet.
-
mesh direct, we got 2x 25 metre for about 50.00 :)
-
Thank you for your swift reply. However I have already tried them. I wanted 600m x 50m which they use to sell for 27.95 but they are sold out and not expecting anymore until July and new stock will be 32.99.
-
You could try SCATS (if you have one near you) I got a load of mesh for my frames from there, it was over 60% cheaper than B&Q.
I took over an overgrown half plot last year and dug down 2 spits deep to clear all the bindweed and couch grass, I only have the odd bit of both regrowing where I missed it. Took about 5 months to do though. ::)
-
mesh direct, we got 2x 25 metre for about 50.00 :)
This is about the right price for it. Try Googling for "Wire netting"
-
Managed to get Wilkinson's to put some to one side for me when it comes in, hopefully this weekend.
I have now come up with a good idea for keeping the birds and other pains in the neck out. I have a plastic frame for a marquee. I shall put the frame up and cover it with plastic netting.
I am hoping to plant out this weekend but I am really stressed that I will go back after planting and the rabbits will have eaten it all! Is their anything that I have to take particular care of? And is their anything that I do not have to worry about?? Or are my troubles about to begin :-\
-
;D ;D ;D
You poor wee soul , you sound like me last year ;D
This year I've decided to take a differant approach.
A wee verse I was told at school........years ago
Out of the gloom , A voice said unto me,
Smile and be happy, things could be worse,
So I smiled and was happy,and behold......
Things did get worse. :P
;D ;D ;D
Don't worry, things have a tendency to work themselves out ;)
-
Well I have now planted. Starting with spring onions, peas, sweet corn, beetroot (doing particularly well),carrotts, onions, brussell sprouts and potatoes.
Had to go in to hospital last week for an op, but I have today been to inspect my allotment and all is well, I was concerned about the amount of rain we have had but they are doing well and nothing has been eaten (touch wood).
I shall endeavour to take some photo's this week and up load them.
-
Hi all
All going well. that was until last week when I found a dead snake caught up in the netting covering my brussels, I legged it when I first saw it, but got hubby to do the Tarzan thing and unravel it so as I could have a real look feeling a lot braver knowing it was 'brown bread'. It is about 30 inches long, dark grey in colour with markings on the side.
Is this normal?? What deters snakes?? ;)
-
It sounds like a slow worm and I find your cavalier approach to its death a little distasteful >:(
-
Trust me this was no worm!!
It was rather nasty looking with teeth. If I could have saved it you could have given it a home on your plot as you like them so much. I don't remember reading in either of my allotment books that I would have to deal with such species. Where have the rabbits gone? seems they legged it the same time as I did. Still, I must say that produce seems to be bug free now :)
Although the experience has made me a little apprehensive when I am there on my own, I took my 80 year old mother with me yesterday for a bit of protection ;) ;)
-
Glad to hear you are getting a return on all your efforts.. sorry to hear about the Slowworm... "Worm" is an old word for reptile/snake/dragon like serpent, glad to hear the Bunnies have hopped it!
;D
-
I have had a truly great first summer. The reward is really exhilerating. I cannot believe how quickly everything takes off. I have sown and now reap the reward, potaoes, radishes, sprouts, tomatoes, carrotts, beetroot, sweetcorn, french beans, onions, cabbages and rhubarb.
I still have a lot to learn but I am amazed that I have managed to grow so much. I need to next year have a system going where by I am able to collect all produce on a regular basis. At the moment it comes in bulk, so I have to learn to stagger the planting so the reward is more fluid.
I have set my self a target that on Christmas day I shall be eating my own potatoes, sprouts, carrotts. Next year I shall plant parsnips and sweet peas to make the xmas dinner completely home grown, apart from the Turkey, of course!
The real joy is thinking what shall I do for dinner tonight, and then walking over the allotment to collect the produce, simply fantastic. I have one moan the weather, will it ever stop raining??
-
If it did you would have to waste time watering stuff!
;D
-
Hi there, back to the snake bit of ur post, as im sure many will say on here we have 3 kinds of snake in this country not counting any escapes made by pets of corse lol,
the Adder
the Grass snake apparently more common than the Adder
and even more rare is the smooth snake not slow worm i belive
a slow worm is a lizard with no legs
the Adder is the only 1 i no that could give a venemous bite but not dangerous unless extremely young or old or suffer heart prob's get a bite
please dont take this for gospel i looked up on net a while bk.
snakes are also protected animals i think could be wrong.
but you should feel pleased to have them around you and they are more scared of you than u are of it.
why not do a search on google on snakes like i did. you can find out all the markings and see pics and what not so atleast you will be btr prepared for if you c another one. MPG
-
(http://www.arkive.org/media/062851CB-DB0F-4D65-843C-E7298127D151/Presentation.Medium/info-Slow-worm.jpg)
Slow Worm (Legless Lizard)
Status: Protected in Britain under Schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act (1981). Listed under Appendix III of the Bern Convention and Classified as a Species of Conservation Concern under the UK Biodiversity Action Plan (UKBAP), but not a priority species.
The slow worm, a legless lizard, was once thought to be a serpent and is often mistaken for a snake. There are certain features that separate the slow worm from snakes, however, including the presence of an eye lid, which earned the species the alternative name of 'blind worm'. This species is the most commonly seen reptile in Britain. Adults have a smooth, shiny appearance, and a grey or bluish belly. Males and females are different in appearance; females are brown, copper coloured or red on the back, with brown or black sides, often with lighter iridescent flecks. In many individuals there is a dark stripe passing along the middle of the back and stripes running along the sides of the body. Males vary in colour, they may be greyish, brown, coppery or reddish-brown, and typically do not have stripes; furthermore, they have broader and longer heads. Occasionally, individuals may have blue spots, a feature that is more common amongst males than females. In juvenile slow worms, the back is iridescent silver, gold, bronze or copper and the sides are brown or black.
(http://www.arkive.org/media/6A650A7C-13E7-4C1B-93E8-F8483EAF5681/Presentation.Medium/info-Adder-amongst-heather-.jpg)
Adder - Britain's only venomous snake and runs a mile when disturbed - unless trodden on like I did in which case it gives a non-fatal bite.
Status: It is illegal to kill, injure, harm or sell adders under the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981.
The adder is Britain’s only venomous snake and is, as a result, a much-maligned species with a wealth of folklore surrounding it. Despite the public perception of this snake, however, it is a shy, timid and non-aggressive species. This stocky snake is easily identified by the dark zigzag line passing along the back bordered by rows of spots. A dark mark which takes the form of an ‘X’, ‘V’ or ‘H’ is located on the rear of the angular head and the pupil is vertical. Males are greyish, whitish, pale yellow or cream in colour with very dark contrasting markings, whereas females are typically a brownish or reddish colour with brown markings. Females also tend to be longer and wider than males, and have shorter tails. Male and female juveniles are reddish in colour. In all cases, the belly is grey, greyish-brown or bluish, and the throat is dirty yellow or white. Completely black (melanistic) adders arise quite frequently.
(http://www.arkive.org/media/D859491F-52BE-42BF-9437-DF72BDD68CF2/Presentation.Medium/info-Grass-snake.jpg)
Grass Snake
Status: Protected in the UK by Schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act, 1981. Listed under Appendix III of the Berne Convention.
The grass snake is Britain's largest terrestrial reptile. This snake is typically olive-green, brown or greyish in colour, with a variable row of black bars along the sides, occasionally with smaller round markings along the back in double rows. The underside is off-white or yellowish with dark triangular or rectangular markings. A characteristic black and yellow collar is present behind the head, which has earned the species the alternative name of 'ringed snake'. Totally black (melanistic) forms and albinos occasionally arise. Males and females are generally similar in appearance, although females are often larger; males can be identified by the presence of a swelling at the base of the tail and by the fact that they have longer tails relative to females.
(http://www.arkive.org/media/64E1A5AC-AAAE-4296-8777-CF6BE210078A/Presentation.Medium/info-Smooth-snake-head-detail.jpg)
Smooth Snake (Extremely rare)
Status: Listed under Appendix II of the Bern Convention, Annex IVa of the EC Habitats Directive, Schedule 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981, and Schedule 2 of the Conservation Regulations 1994.
This non-venomous snake is very rare in the UK, and is superficially similar in appearance to the adder (Vipera berus), but can be distinguished by a number of features including a rounder head and longer, slender build. It is brown or grey in colour and has dark spots on the upper surface rather than the zig-zag patterning characteristic of the adder. The eye has a round golden iris and the head is brown with a black crown and eye stripes. The common name 'smooth snake' refers to the scales, which lack the keel of the other British snakes.
And yes please. I would love to have one of our native snakes or a slowworm resident on my plot.
All the above information is courtesy of and no doubt copyright http://www.arkive.org (http://www.arkive.org)
-
I should add the the smooth snake is restricted to a fairly small area on the South Coast.
-
I should add the the smooth snake is restricted to a fairly small area on the South Coast.
And London and the Home Counties and the Midlands. As it is primarily a nocturnal creature it is rarely seen but that does not mean it is not around. I have quite a good population on my plots and give them the required hiding places, however, I've had to have serious words with them because they do not seem to be making any headway against the nightly invasion of slugs.
-
LOL U NEED SOME HEDGEHOGS, I HAVEN'T SEEN ANY SNAKES FOR AGES, I HOPE I HAVE THEM ON MY PLOT WHEN I GET 1.
-
I should add the the smooth snake is restricted to a fairly small area on the South Coast.
And London and the Home Counties and the Midlands. As it is primarily a nocturnal creature it is rarely seen but that does not mean it is not around. I have quite a good population on my plots and give them the required hiding places, however, I've had to have serious words with them because they do not seem to be making any headway against the nightly invasion of slugs.
Are you sure you mean the Smooth Snake? This sounds more like the Alow Worm, which is more widespread, oftwen nocturnal, and a great slug-eater. Smooth Snakes feed mainly on lizards, snakes and small mammals.
http://www.first-nature.com/reptiles/coronella_austriaca.htm
-
Distribution map for Smooth Snake:
(http://www.searchnbn.net/output/gridGBv4_MTNTJ279630368490.gif)
courtesy of:
http://www.searchnbn.net/index_homepage/index.jsp (http://www.searchnbn.net/index_homepage/index.jsp)
and the Slow Worm:
(http://www.searchnbn.net/output/gridGBv4_MTNTJ279630368510.gif)
-
Are you sure you mean the Smooth Snake?
Please accept my apologies. I did mean slowworms. I will stand at the back of the class until I can afford new glasses.
-
Thanks for the pictures Redclanger. After studying them we both agree that the snake was a grass snake. Attended the allotment today, no snakes just plenty of slugs. We have removed the netting now so if anymore snakes get in they can get out without killing themselves.
-
hi there laurden... we may be your nearest allotmenteers on here...we are in hatfield....we to had such a overgrown plot...i went into hysterical.manic laughter when we went to view!...but cannot beleive wot we have acheived in 4 months! With no Round Up! We were tempted...but with some beg stealed and borrowed lino and old carpet...we now have 12 raised beds...full of produce...( we got our plot in april)...we are pretty smug!..Good luck ...a mission that seems impossible ...IS possible with lots of dedication. ;D
-
Hi Lottiewood
Good to hear you are enjoying the fun. It's like another world, ours is Hixberry Lane, Hatfield side of St Albans. There is a real community feel and it is total time out when we are there. I have found it very satisfying watching how everything grows. I am starting to plan now for next year. I have learn't a great deal this summer so next year I could be in competition with Tesco's ;) I have a war on at the moment with slugs. They are invading me like the Third Reich, it is a constant battle.
-
Anyone help with ideas.
I have a clear patch now and do not know what to plant. Can I plant garlic and onions now?? I have onion seeds (Bedfordshire Champion) but the packet says not to sow until Jan-Apr, my allotment books say I can sow onions about now, what do you all think??
-
Not an expert, but I don't think anyone puts in garlic before October at the earliest. You could use that space to plant some quick growing leaf plants - lettuce, pak choi etc which will harvest from around 6 weeks time then plant your garlic in November / December,
Or buy some seedlings e.g.
http://www.organicplants.co.uk/acatalog/Catalogue____Pick_and_Mix_45.html (http://www.organicplants.co.uk/acatalog/Catalogue____Pick_and_Mix_45.html)
- not as satisfying as growing your own from seed, but would give a longer cropping period.
This article gives a pretty comprehensive description of growing onions.
http://www.vegetableexpert.co.uk/GrowingOnions.html (http://www.vegetableexpert.co.uk/GrowingOnions.html)
I think quite a few brassicas can still be planted for harvesting winter/spring. I've just started some more kales (dwarf curly and cavolo nero which are good croppers)
-
Thanks for your help; I decided to go with pointed cabbages, broccoli and purple broccoli. All winter veg. We will see how I get on, could be just a new war started with slugs over the winter :(
One of the more mature members of the allotment said that it is good to leave the soil over the winter and just prepare it for next season. What are your thoughts on this???
-
I think it is fair to say that most planting is done in the Spring. If you are going to clear more space before next Spring obviously you could use that for the spring planting even if your current bed is still producing / in use (e.g. garlic won't be ready until June/July). Check when what you are planting is due to crop and plan accordingly.
Most beds, e.g. for spuds, can be prepared relatively close to planting if you dig in e.g. composted manure but I'm pretty sure fresh manure would have to go on in the winter since most plants can't take it until it has broken down a bit - not sure of the timing I'm afraid.
For our beds (all raised) that aren't going to be used over the winter, ideally I get them weed free, cover with manure then with fabric and leave them until wanted. The worms do the work of getting the manure into the soil.
One tip with brassicas I wish I'd known when we planted our first ones last year was that they should have very firm soil. Really tread down hard around the plants other wise they'll sprawl all over the place.
I think some of the more experienced gardeners should join in now :)