Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: STHLMgreen on February 04, 2007, 00:41:23
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This is the first year i'll have my allotment. I read about the 'three sisters' corn, squash and beans thing. How does this work with crop rotation? Don't beans have to move around?
I've also read different groupings for the rotation. What grouping do you guys actually use?
Thanks!
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If you just go to search at top of home page and then type 'crop rotation' this will get you loads of info1
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I use a four crop rotation
1. spuds = heavily manured and followed by a green manure
2.legumes and brassicas - manure liberally and lime heavily
3. roots - compost and mulch
4. toms, marrows, onion, spinach, lettuce, sweetcorn ect - well rotted compost, mulch and feed
1234 - 2341, 3412, 4123 etc
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You'd rotate the three sisters along with everything else.
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This is my first year too ;D I am using a 3 bed rotation which will comprise of:
1) Legumes and onions: Peas, Beans, garlic, salad crops
2) Roots: Potatoes,Carrots, beetroot, parsnips..... will probably put leeks in here after 1st early pots out!
as a long term crop ready for legumes and onions which will follow!
3) Brassica's: Cabbage, brussel sprouts, broccali, cauliflower.
I am going to try growing Butternut squash under my sweetcorn but not sure how well it will do ??? I will probably do this in my brassica bed as it has been manured and will have more space...i hope!
Each person has their own ways of working their crops and indeed i have met many that have given up rotating altogether as they say it is impossible :-\ but i can't understand this myself but then im only a newbe so what do i know :-\
Hope this helps
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We're using four rotation beds, groupings as follows:
1. Potato family (incl. tomatoes)
2. Legumes
3. Brassicas
4. Onions & Roots
I'm gonna slot all my non-rotation crops in where they will fit, and then probably carry them on round each year (so they're with the same crops each time) unless there's a good reason not to? I know i'm a total newbie, but I'd probably put your 3 sisters thingy in with the legumes so the beans rotate each year.
Good luck, would love to see some pictures of this in practise! x
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Kitten, never tried tomatoes with spuds - do you plant them in between spud rows?
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Thought the usual way was
Pots, Roots, Legs, & Bras
Toms & pots are both susceptible to blight though, so I thought they should be kept well apart even though they're both members of the same family.
Terri 8)
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If you just go to search at top of home page and then type 'crop rotation' this will get you loads of info1
ditto if you type in 'three sisters'! :)
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Group 1 the root crop. These include things like potato, (parsnip, swede, - although some put these with brassica's )celery and salsify.
Group 2 should follow Group 1. This group includes the legume family, peas and beans. You could also include onions and leeks.
Group 3 follows Group 2. This group is the brassica's and includes cabbage, cauliflower, spinach and Brussels sprouts.
This is a basic 3 year rotation plan and you need only manure ahead of potatoes
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rotate with beans. The squash and corn are 'neutrals' to a certain extent, and though it's good practice to rotate them onto different areas each year, they don't fit precisely with any of the main groups described by other posters. That leaves the beans, so your three sisters goes with the legume rotation.
The one thing I would say to watch out for is smut, a nasty corn problem where kernels swell up to huge proportions and are full of grey-black fungus. It's a delicacy in Mexico apparently, but won't half wreck your sweetcorn crop. It's a five-year 'avoid the area' if you get it, and it prefers hot dry conditions. If we have a very hot year, there'll be a fair bit about. If you catch it before the swellings pop, then you're ok.
I've now got three beds which are in quarantine, though thankfully two of them come out of it next year.
moonbells
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Hi okra, I've absolutely no idea what I'm doing to be honest as it's our first year on the allotment, and I've only ever grown tomatoes & cuc's in pots before.
I've just been reading a few books, reading a lot of threads on here ( :o ) and making the rest up as I go along ???.
I'm following what Susan Berger's book Allotment Gardening says re rotation. It gives the four groupings as I previously mentioned, in that order, and puts tomatoes, aubergines & peppers in the same group as potatoes, saying that they all benefit from the addition of organic matter, which will in turn benefit the legumes the following year.
I suppose we'll find out later in the year if we've done the right things, and if not we'll make some changes next year. Looking forward to all the learning tho' ;)
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dont put yourself down kitten, the first year on the plot is a steep learning curve and your rotation logic is sound - tomatoes are indeed the same family as potaotes, and that is the very reason why they are suceptible (sp) to blight and therefore need to be kept at some distance. i agree with others about putting the three sisters into the bean group. and yes butternuts work fine under sweetcorn.
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and, by the way, kitten, we're all still learning, there's really no right way to do things, just personal prefernces, mother nature can mess up even the best laid plans :)
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Phew, i'm so glad there's no right way to do things lol, at least if i've got a good reason, then my way will be as good as any ;D ;) ;D
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there always room to try something new - I will try some toms and peppers with the spuds and see what happens
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If you PM details, I can email you with what I am doing this year. It is all done in MS word document format.
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I have legumes, brassicas, roots, pots and onions... no idea where i should move what yet but my rotation year will be at the end of this season so no panic yet.
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If you PM details, I can email you with what I am doing this year. It is all done in MS word document format.
ooo would you extend that offer in this direction?
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If you PM details, I can email you with what I am doing this year. It is all done in MS word document format.
ooo would you extend that offer in this direction?
Will do. You need to PM email address via this site.
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Will do. You need to PM email address via this site.
[/quote]
Sent them to you 1 minute ago.
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kitten,
just wanted to say don't worry or panic about growing veg. I planted my allotment last year and my wife gave birth to our daughter soon after. Even forgot to label what I planted. Anyway understandably I didn't attend the allotment much but it didn't matter as it kind of looked after itself and the amound of produce I had was amazing. Although I did have to wait a while to see exactly what i planted where. There is a general rule of thumb about rotation but just learn from each year. everyone's soil and climate is different and will produce different results. Just enjoy it!!! ;)
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Kitten last year was my first year and everything just sort of went in, there was two of us so we had spuds in two places the same with carrots, parsnips, beetroots and lettuce. So this will be our first year of grouping and rotating, things I learnt were : label everything, space out crops properly, don't manure roots (carrots, parsnips),don't overwater, hoe weeds regularly and don't take on too much. Learn as you go along and just enjoy it and take notes to improve next year, happy digging. ;D ;D ;D
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Awwwww thanks mokanoo & cornykev :-* ! I was beginning to get myself all confused about it all, but i'm gonna chill out and just go with the flow. I've already invested in a big note book, which i take with me each time i go to the plot, even tho' there's nothing to make notes about at the mo lol. ;D
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Heres a little graphic to show my method.
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stan.shepherd/downloads/rotate.jpg)
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I always have trouble with the meaning of arrow directions.
Does that mean potatoes follow carrots/roots and are themselves followed by peas/legumes?
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I read it as meaning that the potatoes move into the bed where the beans were last season, and the roots go into last year's potato bed ???
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Just imagine its talking about one bed and that the arrow means 'then'.
Peas then brassicas then roots then tatties then peas then brassicas etc etc.
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I've recently found out that turnips and swedes are brassicas too so must be included in the brassica beds.
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quite a useful explanation of the rationale from GQT
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fsheets/12_08_01/fsheetsq8.shtml (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/gqt/fsheets/12_08_01/fsheetsq8.shtml)