Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: kt. on November 09, 2006, 22:13:28
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I want to put some eating apple trees in the allotment. 2 or 3, and possibly a pear tree too. I want the trees to stay small. Maximum of 6ft height, i know they will need pruning to stay this height. I hope to train the trees shapes to the CORDON method or possibly STEPOVER to keep the roots small and prevent them taking over fighting for moisture with all the veg. Any advice on type of trees to get much appreciated. ::)
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For your apples try and get them on a m9 rootstock, these will only get about 8 foot tall but give plenty of fruit. Pears need to cross pollinate so a family tree with 2/3 varieties on one stock is a good idea unless somebody has a pear nearby.
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I know the usual advice is to get dwarfing rootstock trees, though in the past few days I've been doing a lot of research over at the gardenweb.com fruit/orchards forum, and there the consensus seems to be to get a M26/MM106 rootstock and keep it under control by pruning.
(Incidentally, if you're looking for reasonable prices mail-order, http://www.tarnplants.co.uk/mail_order_fruit.htm were ever so helpful when I phoned up. Mostly MM106 trees.)
Also, Bramley's considered to be such a rampant thug that they recommend getting the size rootstock down from your other trees to keep it under control!
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Also how about planting in one of those bags that partially restrict the roots
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I think the best advice is to buy the best apple for the location, i.e. correct rootstock, correct soil, best light, favourite type of apple, best choice for pollination, correct staking (especially for the dwarf roots) and then let them grow - fancy and excessive pruning is fine if shape is so so important but this is an art that has to be perfected else you will prune out all your fruiting spurs, if it is produce you want then let them grow as they want to, just cutting out dead, damaged or diseased wood - the hardest thing is deciding which varieties to choose ;)
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Tell me about it! The list of varieties is phenomenal, especially when you look at the big online places like Keepers.
Given you're oop north, it might actually be a plan to look at the varieties offered in the link I posted earlier, as those ones are all very hardy. I'm thinking of getting a Katy and Lord Derby (pollination not an issue as I have others which will pollinate them).
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Katy is a wonderful eating apple (but doesn't keep), I have one and it is so pretty, the apples being picture postcard red and when people walk past when the apples are nearly ready they always comment on how lovely the tree looks - even had them pinched once cos they looked so good :(
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that's one of the ones we were thinking of getting, when does it fruit, we already have a discovery which we get too many ready at once and wanted a couple of later keepers, i thought Katy was one of them, maybe not ? :)
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Mm, that's one thing I'm a bit worried about as we plan to have a couple of trees in the front garden, and I'll be pretty annoyed if people start taking lots of them. Course, this is why the other one's a bitter-tasting cooking apple. :D
Katy sounds good in terms of disease resistance & hardiness, also the flavour sounds really nice. (I'm not the only one that buys apple trees without knowing what they taste like, am I?)
As for them keeping.. we make lots of homebrew, so any leftovers will be turned into apple wine. :D
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we've got a freezer full, so have ray's mum and dad, my sister and our daughter, we've eaten 2 to 3 per day, given pounds and pounds aaway to neigbours, next year we're going to make apple juice but I'd like to have a couple we can keep to eat fresh, will have a look on line for types to get :)
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that's one of the ones we were thinking of getting, when does it fruit, we already have a discovery which we get too many ready at once and wanted a couple of later keepers, i thought Katy was one of them, maybe not ? :)
Generally Katy is picked September/October, so quite a short harvesting period and they go soft quite quickly, hence not a good keeper - off our small tree, after thinning twice, I get approx 100 apples each year, the branches get heavy and tend to bend over making picking from the top easier but alwasy a risk of them breaking - I forget which rootstock, but a small one and at present it is about 8ft tall (highest point)
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that doesn't sound too bad, the discovery comes in from mid august so's finished b4 end sept
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If you want a keeper try a russet, I do not even pick mine until now. Try and find somebody with some and taste one first, they are not to everybodys taste. The shop ones if you can get them are not the same
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when we went to visit ray's grandad, in colchester,(107 when he died) we went to an apple day and I tasted home grown russetts there,they tasted fantastic
I can't stand the ones in shops, so that gives us one to think about :)
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They are like sprouts and parsnips, they like a frost on them to bring out the taste.
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Last August I planted a 3 year old Spartan tree on my plot, this year I have been rewarded with 60+ apples, and 2 litres of cider. (hick). An apple, deep red in colour, crisp and very very juicy.
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That depends on the rootstock you choose, but so far it's been a non-problem on my plot; I suspect the eventual factor will be shading not root spread. I'm still putting trees in slowly, but I have Bramley and Grenadier as cookers; the Grendier hasn't fruited yet. Then there's Worcester Pearmain as an early eater; mine isn't doing well as the roots are weak, and i'm going to prune it heavily as soon as the leaves drop. James Grieve is also early, and good, and Egremont Russet a little later. This one tendes, I find, to drop it's fruit before they're fully ripe, and they need storing for a few weeks. Charles Ross is an attractive-looking apple (as is James Grieve) but I think the texture is poor. Namissa loves them though. What I want now is a really late keeper, a late pear, and a late plum.
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So many varieties, so much choice. I will take everyones advice & combine the lot. Would I get away with 3 different types of apple tree? One to harvest August/September, 2nd to harvest September /October, and 3rd to harvest October/November. All side by side.
Any suggestions as to how wide the roots will spread and take over the soil?
As far as varieties go it is just as important to choose apples from the same group or neighbouring group for pollination and you need to decide what you want from an apple, cook, eat (obviously you can cook with eaters as well) and what texture you want - as Robert says the Charles Ross he doesn't like because of the texture and I agree for eating but it makes fab apple sauce, whether you want to keep them for any length (the pantry where I store my apples smells wonderful now when you open the door - all will keep until the new year if we didn't keep eating them ;D)
I would visit as many online apple sites as possible to get to know about all the varieties
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I have Fiesta and Sunset - the Fiesta is a bit like a Cox's but mine is in a large pot so the apples are small, I use it as a pollinator but it needs to go in the ground but not sure if I have the space - nice flavour - the Sunset is also like the Cox, late harvest and seems to keep for ever, can be small in fruit size as well - so if you like cox's these are good choices
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As I say, i grow both James Grieve and Egremont Russet, and they're both sxcellent. The only thing with Egremont Russet is that it really does need storing for at least 3-4 weeks after picking. Wait till the fruit go a sort of greeny-gold colour; you can't miss it.
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Only planted our Winter Gem in May but did have 3 or 4apples off it, which were very tasy with a good texture.
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:)
I bought 3 apple trees from Morrisons this year to grow as cordons,Lord Lambourne,Worcester Pearmain and Sunset(the jury is out wether WP can be grown as a cordon).LL had one apple this year and was blooming delicious ;D /shades x
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worcester pearmain is a tip bearer :-\ and that would be one reason why the extra pruning for a cordon wouldn't be the best idea
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Really pleased to hear that Sunset is a good apple variety. I planted one late last winter and it had lots of blossom on it but not one apple survived. :'( I'm hoping that now it's established it will do better next season.
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sounds like the blossom wasn't pollinated - what do you have nearby that will do the job?
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How old was it? I've had very young trees flower without setting. It's better if they don't at that stage since you want growth rather than having the tree use all its strength in bearing.
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The tree was from Ken Muir but I don't know how old it was when I planted it - it just came by post. ;)
Pollination may be the problem. There's a James Grieve on the next but one plot but that's quite new too, as it was planted the year before.
I have a new neighbour who has planted a cox, a bramley and another that I can't remember so there's three of us in a row with apples.
Although I do seem to remember quite a few tiny apples but they all dropped off - would they form without pollination?
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No, they were pollinated :)
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They drop off when the tree can't suport them to maturity; it's known as 'June drop'. Cox's and James Grieve will pollinate Sunset.
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I'm planning to plant a row of apple cordons but am not sure of which materials to use for the structure - posts in concrete, metposts and wood, galvanised metal tubing?
I want the structure to last for decades. Any advice welcomed.
I would recommend Scrumptious - it crops when young and tastes of cherries and sometimes aniseed (Sep).
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Mm, that's one thing I'm a bit worried about as we plan to have a couple of trees in the front garden, and I'll be pretty annoyed if people start taking lots of them. Course, this is why the other one's a bitter-tasting cooking apple. :D
Katy sounds good in terms of disease resistance & hardiness, also the flavour sounds really nice. (I'm not the only one that buys apple trees without knowing what they taste like, am I?)
As for them keeping.. we make lots of homebrew, so any leftovers will be turned into apple wine. :D
I went to ken muir apple day with the express thought in my mind that i would not by anything and if i did i wanted one apple and one pear/
I bought 3 apples and 1 pear as i tasted them and they were devine! ( also tried the juice and i am sure blended they would make excelent home brew )
I picked Pixe ( packed with taste ) desert apple, Bardsey ( worlds rarest apple ) a cooker that tastes wonderful raw wow and kids orange red (my personal fav) yum yum. The pear i got was an asian pear as i dont like the taste of english pears unless there cooked and the asian pears are expensive ( and my neighbour has an english pear so i am sure there will be some swapping going in.)
I compromised ( told myself at the time anyway ) that i would put the later flowering ones in the garden at home and the earlier one and the pear on the lottie, there on m26 rootstock and i plan to train as cordon. I want to bang in some wooden steaks at the weekend and add some wooden verticals to help protect against wind and tie the apple & pear to in the area to the right of my shed which should be nice and sheltered.
I am going to be putting a climbing rose there as well as a peony shrub so that i have a little peice of calm in the summer. Just need a bench!
So this weekend i will be hammering in the posts for the apple area and the posts for the grapevines while the clay is soft. ( 12 posts for the grapes and 3 for the apple area ) Which leaves me the winter to work out how to get the wire to stay tight.