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Produce => Kept Animals => Topic started by: triffid on October 22, 2006, 20:15:32
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The National Honey Show ended yesterday and I had a great time nattering to lots of other beekeepers from all over the country (and beyond!) ...
Having spoken to several who major in borage honey (about the lightest and clearest of all -- when it's liquid, it's almost the colour of dry white wine) and others who rely on rapeseed (another pale honey; granulates fast and hard) I'm fascinated to know more about what people like in different honeys...
You see, most of the folk that buy our honeys prefer darker ones, from mixed summer flowers.
So can I just ask what kind of honey you like best?
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The best I've had was a mix of bramble and privet, with other things thrown in. Bramble is always my mainstay, but it's very bland. Privet is dark and much stronger-tasting, and the result was far better.
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... which just goes to show, cause one of the Wise Ones down my way reckons privet honey is inedible!
Have you tasted ivy honey?
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I've heard the thing about privet being inedible as well. Maybe it is when it first comes in; a lot of the stronger ones seem to mellow with time. Ivy's very pale, bland, and the problem is that it crystallises in nothing flat. There are tales of bees being unable to use it over winter, and even of bees being killed by it crystallising in the honey stomach. I certainly don't believe the latter. Some bees may have trouble utilising it, but our native bees must have been wintering on it for millennia, and I don't believe they can't cope. Mine brought in loads this year, and a very good thing too after this awful season. I've still got a bit of feeding to do, but nowhere near as much as I thought a few weeks ago.
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Oh that sounds like a great event triffid, lucky you! Extremes - a good treacly eucalypt or heather honey, OR a beautiful pale (don't mind acacia but will look for borage now). If I can, I always buy local honey, but it's not always easy. I get put off by crystallisation - is there a cure? ::)
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Brought some chestnut honey back from Italy in the summer, but not too keen on it- it has a really strong flavour. Got some sunflower honey in France which was yummy and some "spring blossom" Yorkshire honey which was also good.
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If you want to 'cure' crystallised honey, warm it gently. Maybe put it on top of the hot water tank overnight? I've never bothered myself, but I well remember Gale's honey from when I was a kid; sometimes it was so thick that you couldn't spread it at all. That was clover, which used to be the major UK honey till they ploughed up all the old permanent pasture.
If the honey crystalises, that suggests it's good stuff; supermarket honey is heated and microfiltered, and in the process they remove everything which distinguishes honety from syrup, and destroy a lot of the medicinal value into the bargain. Don't ever heat it strongly unless you want to wreck the taste.
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I like the taste and smell of heather honey.
I once used to take bees to the N York moors for winter stores and a bit of surplus if lucky. Wonderful scent when extracting.
The farmer occasionally had the most superb very dark honey, very thick but not crystallised. He said it came from pine trees but it was not honey dew. However, he could never find the source and if it was produced it was about the same time as the heather flowered, perhaps a bit earlier.
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If it really came from pine trees it has to have been honeydew. It's generally thick, dark, sometimes greenish-black, with a strong taste. In some parts of continental Europe it produces a significant crop. Some people love it.
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Toadspawn -- that dark honey may have been sweet chestnut, perhaps.
A fellow beekeeper in Yorkshire gets the occasional batch of a lovely honey from a grove of sweet chestnuts; really dark (shine a torch through it and it glows like port!)
Never done the heather run, though: looking at (and tasting :P) some of the Irish heather honey I bought at the show, maybe I should be brave and try... amazing stuff!
The Lakes and Scotland are too far, I think, for us -- but there was a time when quite a few beekeepers hereabouts had contacts in East Anglia and used to take advantage of heather there.
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I do eat a lot of Honey, too much at times. I like Heather Honey but also I sometimes buy Borage Honey. Its a wonderful natural food.
We have relatives who have a Honey Farm who has his hives all over North Northumberland and Scottish Borders. Click on this interesting web site. If you are in this area, this place is worth a visit.
http://www.chainbridgehoney.co.uk/
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I haven't even clicked the link -- Willie Robson's famous (and even more so since the publication of Sweetness and Light)!
Not visited yet, but Chain Bridge Honey Farm' s definitely a highlight to be added to my next northerly tour.
But if he's a relative, surely you shouldn't have to lower yourself to buying honey ;D
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Well, I do get quite a lot free but it is a business and I like to pay for it if at a reduced rate. Its quite a set up at Chainbridge Honey Farm and well worth a visit. The whole family are involved in the day to day running of the business. Willie is a character if you have not met him. Hope you manage up to see it all one day.
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My favorite must be Sea Lavender Honey,its strong tasting. I buy it when i go down to North Norfolk near the coast.
Field Bean Honey is a nice one too, i love the scent of the Beans when I'm working my bees, it makes a pleasant change after the smell of Oil Seed Rape.
Doe's anyone know how many Beekeepers log on to the site?
Regards to all, Bombus
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Bombus, I don't think anyone could know since not a lot of personal info gets into the admin records.
I think quite a few of A4A's beekeepers are posting on here, though :D
So far I've spotted four...
me
Robert_Brenchley
Toadspawn
and you!
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Thyme honey - it's almost savoury.
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Barnowl -- Greek thyme honey?
I had it once, years and years ago and would probably like it much better now than I did. As I remember, it has an almost medicinal aroma. Is that right?
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It would do; thymol is a mild disinfectant which turns up in Listerine mouthwash and all sorts of things. I use it to kill mites, and loathe the smell!
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Actually, I was given a bottle of thymol earlier in summer by a Polish beekeeper. Apparently it's used a lot there as an anti-varroa therapy. Unfortunately, I didn't quite understand the instructions, so I haven't tried it on them yet.
Will be meeting other members of our BK association next week, so will ask around!
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It's quite simple to use, though it's a bit late in the year now. I've just done a thymol treatment, using Apiguard, which is a commercial preparation. In any other year, it would have been too cold for it to work.
http://www.stratford-upon-avon.freeserve.co.uk/PENotes/VarroaTreatment.htm
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Barnowl -- Greek thyme honey?
I had it once, years and years ago and would probably like it much better now than I did. As I remember, it has an almost medicinal aroma. Is that right?
The aroma is almost medicinal. It's Turkish honey from the Datcha Peninsula but I imagine Greek would be very similar. Problem is I've never seen it for sale in the UK so have to bring loads back because we don't go there every year.
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I think quite a few of A4A's beekeepers are posting on here, though :D
So far I've spotted four...
me
Robert_Brenchley
Toadspawn
and you!
et moi :)
aren't honey shows amazing - from almost clear to almost black, what a palette of colour
but you have to beware of honey descriptions unless you are familiar with the location stated on the tin - 'honest' producers will have their hives in huge fileds of single plants, such as thyme or heather (the bees won't wander from this) but so often the source is hit and miss in a jar of honey because you can't guarantee where the bees have been
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Lime honey. ( as in citrus)
Had it in France years ago and have hunted for it here, France and Italy ever since- no joy :'(
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Try Poland?
http://www.alvanatural.co.uk/honey.htm
:)
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Supersprout, you do find some good sites! Those Polish honeys look yummy, and the prices seem fair (though I didn't spot how much postage was). You asked about honey shows earlier... yes, they're wonderful, though at the National the only way to get a taste is to buy jars (or become a judge!)
:P
Robert: thanks for the varroa treatment link: what I've got isn't thymol crystals; it's essential oil of thyme. When I find out how the Polish beekeeper who gave me it uses it, I can pass the info on if you're interested!
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thank you triffid, I do love hunting for good food sites :-[ ;)
how long does honey last in an unopened jar in a cool dark place, please? ::)
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Honey was found by archaeologists in ancient Egyptian tombs. And was still perfectly edible. ;D
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(But according to Trading Standards we're supposed to put 2 or 3 years as a 'best before' date on our jars!)
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:o just add three noughts? ;D
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But it would definitely have crystallised by then, so you wouldn't like it SS. :D
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So what sort of year have everyone's Bees had? after what has seemed like an endless summer.
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I know that essential oils were tried for varroa control a few years ago, but I haven't heard anything for a long time, which suggests they didn't work.
This has been a completely lousy year for bees! First, they were slow to build up in the late spring. Then, the hot weather made them horribly swarmy, and to top that I had problems with queen mating. Then, the honey sources dried up. Obviously, a perennial isn't dependent on producing seed every year, and if it's short of water, the flowers don't produce nectar. Normally, I can count on the bramble, as there's masses about and it's really deep-rooted so it doesn't go short of moisture. This year it did. The brambles round the stream were OK, were covered in bees, and produced a good crop of blackberries. A few hundred yards away on slightly higher ground, only the early-flowering brambles were pollinated; the later ones seem to have produced no nectar at all. The result was 20lb of honey from three hives, which is totally pathetic. I've ended up feeding two of them, and that's not something I'd do normally.
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Hi Bombus
I did reply earlier but the message disappeared!!!!
My one hive has given me the best result this year - 70lb. I have had more honey in other years but with more hives but the average per hive has only been 20-30 lb. No idea what they were feeding on because no crops of significance around. Unfortunately next year every cultivated field within a mile is oilseed rape. Lots of honey potentially but not very exciting taste and the frames will all be spoilt. I will have to make sure the colony is strong at the time the stuff starts flowering and it seems to get earlier each year.
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Sounds as if its been a mixed year, depending on your location.
I have had a really good year in spite of not being able to move my hives to the crops ( Rape, Beans, Borage ) Had an operation/recuperation period in early summer, it cramped my style for two months. Having said that i was at home with my Bees and able to artificially swarm all 6 hives.
New queens all mated ok and then went on to lay like crazy.So i ended up with very strong hives that were able to make the best of what was around my home patch.I have ended up with just short of 5 cwt of Honey for their efforts.
When my bees are on Rape I put just a starter strip of foundation in each super frame. The Bees draw this out and I don't mind if the Honey sets , I just cut it out. When the rape is over i then put my supers of drawn comb on the hives and they are not seeded by rape Honey.
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I've been monitoring the way bees respond to varroa infestation, and sure enough, I've seen them cleaning out infested pupae. Only trouble is, according to what's coming out now, parasitised drones probably can't fly fast enough to catch a queen, which may explain the problems with mating. I'm going to see whether walloping the mites over winter has any effect on mating success.
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Hi Robert, what Varroa treatment do you use and at what time of the year do you use it?
Regards Bombus.
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Bombus, I don't think anyone could know since not a lot of personal info gets into the admin records.
I think quite a few of A4A's beekeepers are posting on here, though :D
So far I've spotted four...
me
Robert_Brenchley
Toadspawn
and you!
And me ;D
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Every year we have about 40 beehives at the isle of TEXEL, north of the Netherlands, to get lots Borage honey. That's my favorite one. ;D
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BTW have you seen CNN report: There's much more to bees than honey.
London: Scientists have unraveled the genetic code of the honey bee, uncovering clues about its complex social behavior, heightened sense of smell and African origins. etc etc.......????
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I use Apiguard in either spring or autumn; it seems to work fine with the temperature in the mid- to upper fifties, despite the packaging saying that it shouldn't be used under 65 Fahrenheit, but it can drive the bees out of the hive if it gets too how and it evaporates too fast. This latter isn't on the packet incidentally. As a backup, I have oxalic acid for dribbling in winter; I wouldn't use the vapour for safety reasons.
I won't use Apistan or Bayvarol, because the active ingredient (fluvalinate) is persistent in comb, and seems to have all sorts of nasty long-term effects on the bees.
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As I have not as yet noted any resistance to Apistan I have used it again this autumn. I don't eat the Brood comb, and renew 2 frames with foundation each year,i don't see a problem. I have never seen any long term side effects on my bees, in fact just the opposite they are normally very fit and the Hives are bursting with bees. Also this last year I have been on open mesh floors, Much better ventilation and any Varroa that fall off bees pass through the mesh and because i'm on hive stands, are unable to get back into the hive. Also in very hot weather it must be easier for the bees to control the inside temperature.
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I swear by mesh floors; I've been using them for years. Have you had any problems with queen mating? Fluvalinate is a strong suspect, at the very least, though I don't think that's the whole story by any means. As long as you rotate comb you won't have the sort of wax contamination they sometimes seem to get in the States, where PMS-type symptoms are being attributed to it in some cases. Bees will move wax about in the hive, so it might take a shakedown onto foundation to completely get rid of the chemicals.
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Sometimes if the weather looks set to be warm and there is a good flow on, I will artificially swarm onto foundation and not drawn comb. This is a good way to cull old comb.I do the same on the borage, use some brood frames of foundation for supers, after extracting the honey they can be used as brood or super comb.
I have had no problems with queens mating at all this year, the weather was good at the time i art. swarmed.I've had problems in the past during long periods of bad weather.
Open mesh floors are also excellent for ventilation when i'm moving bees around,I don't bother with top screens. Do you ever move bees around?
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Not routinely, only when getting new stock in. The incident when they started escaping on the train has rather put me off!
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I love Greek honey ...........mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;D ;D
I bought some Sainsbury's "Taste the difference" Greek honey. The label describes it as a dark honey with a rich, treacly flavour and hints of molasses, liquorice and aniseed, collected from the hills of mainland Greece. The only indication as to the plants that the bees frequent, is a picture of pine flowers and cones. This honey is delicious especially when poured over Greek Yoghurt.
I bought a jar of Tesco Finest Greek honey yesterday but haven't tried it yet. It states on the label that it has a liquorish and aniseed flavour, so I am hoping it is every bit as delicious as the Sainsbury's one. It states it is from pine and chestnut trees in northern Greece.
For me then... definitely Greek honey. ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Pauline: if you ever see dark coloured British honey for sale (farmers' markets, via local beekeepers' associations etc) do give it a try. It's probably very much to your taste!
And to Bombus (much delayed reply -- sorry!)
So what sort of year have everyone's Bees had?
2006 has been a funny sort of year: less honey than normal (down by about 20%) but very good flavour. In fact we've had happy results at the couple of honey shows we've entered, which is something we're very chuffed about!
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Thanks Triffid. I will look out for it. I have now opened the Tesco Geek honey and it is almost as good as that i bought from Sainsbury's. ;)
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uh-oh ... greek honey and greek yoghurt ... can't resist ... waauuugh! :P :P ::)
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Try Poland?
http://www.alvanatural.co.uk/honey.htm
:)
Thanks for that...will certainly order some!!! :D
( sorry for the delay, but only just found this thread again!!)