Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: pete10 on October 21, 2006, 19:03:02
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Hi i wonder if anyone can point me in the right place .I'm looking to build some cages using
the build a ball system . But cant seem to find any metal tubing IE half inch .
Many thanks in advance.
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There's a scrap yard in Challow near Wantage (not that far from Reading), Burt Haynes, where you can buy cheap building materials. I think might they sell metal tubing.
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Thanks Keef will look in to that.
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Just a question Pete...why metal? Was thinking it might rust?
???
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Well something a little stronger than canes as they are very light.
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I use 1/2" copper pipe, i.e. water pipe, it's about $3 (GBP, american keyboard) for 10' It will never need replacing, so cheap in the long run.
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Good shout Mike where would be the best place to get it .Somewhere like Travis Perkins ?
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I use 1/2" copper pipe, i.e. water pipe, it's about $3 (GBP, american keyboard) for 10' It will never need replacing, so cheap in the long run.
Doesn't it bend extremely easily?
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Yes it can bend easy perhaps the more solid stuff would be better . I will check some out tomorrow
as i have a Travis Perkins next door to where i work .
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Hi
I would also be intrested as i want to but a large fruit cage up (34ft by 14ft) and with scafolding i got a quote of £700!!!
I estimated that a wooden cage including the cost of hiring a post holer makes it about £300, so your ideas are welcome!!
Louise
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I've used copper pipe & it's rigid enough. Really pleased with it. Got mine at Wickes, tho if I'd known of a plumber's merchants around, might have been cheaper?
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Hi Alishka was the pipe in a roll or the straight solid stuff.
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Sounds like a lot of money Louise perhaps the Ball system might be the way forward.
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yep might be the problem is that its a very windy site and other people who have put up smaller fruit cages using bambo have collapsed. :-\
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Louise - it's all about suitable shape and bracing, I'm sure you could do something pretty sturdy if you went for a sort of domed geodesic kind of thing. For that matter, if it's really windy you might do well using long sections of plastic tube and making something with curved spars based on the designs you see in dome tents - should handle strong gusty winds very well if you get it well nailed down and tied at the joints.
'Lish - I don't think you would have a much better deal elsewhere.... I certainly wouldn't recommend TP tho' Pete.
In general I commend to you the company Screwfix, ladies and gentlemen, for pretty much all your building, DIY, and hardware needs. Not a bad website, good prices (usually similar to Wickes or cheaper for fixings), free delivery (£6 handling fee if under £50) to your door, usually next day.
Have a look at the link for all things pipe related:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?cId=102639&ts=97203 (http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?cId=102639&ts=97203)
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This is bog standard 15mm copper pipe used in your house, check the piping going to your taps say in the bathroom under the basin. Rigid, you would need a pipe bending gadget to bend it. I use wooden blocks approx. 2" x 2" with holes drilled in instead of the ball system, cheaper & stronger system.
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I am still tempted by wood as copper has a high re-sale value and will be a target for theves.
Certainly thats what they targeted last time we were broken into.
If i was to build this in wood making boxed strutted frames linked together 11ft wide 7 foot high and cross brased linked would i need to sink anything into the ground???
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Hi Alishka was the pipe in a roll or the straight solid stuff.
straight solid stuff - like Mike's, sold for domestic use. About half was bought - the rest was from a bathroom re-fit at a house I work at which never made it to the skip 8)
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All that copper wouldn't you be worried about lightning? :D
I've a (temporary) bamboo cage which has held up since June but I used loads of cross bracing and the supports for the raspberry wires are pretty substantial.
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Nice info guys thanks .Managed to get down to B&Q the piping was rather exspensive so going
to try screw fix .
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Copper pipe is very expensive at the moment, thus making it very attractive to some people if it is not nailed down.
It works out about £2 to £3 per meter for 15mm lengths new, but £2 per kilo as scrap value (where I am)
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so the alternatives are bambo, wood and plastic?
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How about an adaptation of a Geoff Hamilton idea? Alkathene water pipe with doweling or canes inserted for rigidity?
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How about an adaptation of a Geoff Hamilton idea? Alkathene water pipe with doweling or canes inserted for rigidity?
Intresting just googled it and found this http://www.colinlawrence.free-online.co.uk/page5.html
Is this the same as http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id=19606&ts=69799
does anyone know?
I was wondering if i put loops of this along the 34 feet say every 5 feet and build in a simular wooden frame but no so high maybe 2 ft would that work?
If i cable tied the netting to the pipe would that help hold it together?
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Yes, I use this tube quite a lot, and it is indeed the same stuff. You can also buy it at DIY stores for a similar price.
We use it over raised beds to carry netting for strawberries and brassicas. However, more than about 1 metre width and 1.2 metres high and it tends to twist under the load. You can strength the structure with battens and so on, but that raises the cost and makes removing the net a bit of a pain.
To be honest, I wouldn't use alkathene tubing for anything as large as a fruit cage. It'll twist and sag like billy-o.
Using cable ties on the net is a good idea, but the costs add up if you use them too extensively. I'm assuming you'll want to remove the net at the end of each season.
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Hi
I am not all that bothered about removing it once its up.
I have been looking into doing this
- add a 3ft high box around the area ( have lots of wood so this is not a problem )
- will add a 10ft bambo cane into each end of a peice of tubing sinking each bit by about a foot and a half into the ground
- the spacing will be approx 6ft
- Rope will knit around each pole in 3 places ( either side and top ) and tie off at either end of the cage where i will put a trellis.
Questions
- Whats the best tool to cut the tubing?
- Do you think that will hold it in place?
- How do i caclulate how much pipe to order? i.e. if i want to have this 6ft high in the middle(min) and it has to span an area 14ft how do i calculate the lenth of each ARC of pipe? I am not mathamaticaly minded so dont know.
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Pete10 you probably have, but have you tried ebay?
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but what would you search for?
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... Questions
- Whats the best tool to cut the tubing?
- Do you think that will hold it in place?
- How do i caclulate how much pipe to order? i.e. if i want to have this 6ft high in the middle(min) and it has to span an area 14ft how do i calculate the lenth of each ARC of pipe? I am not mathamaticaly minded so dont know.
I use a cheap tenon saw kept for the purpose (or you can buy a specialist pipe cutter). The main problem with the tubing is that it comes in a coil, and is difficult to hold straight and steady whilst you cut it. I use one of those mini-workbench things that clamp it in place. Mark it with a magic marker, then cut.
Personally I don't think that you've got a hope of keeping a 14 foot span in place, no matter how you stiffen it. You might do better with two 7 foot spans.
Here's a formula for working out the length. You'd be wise to "add a bit" because the pipe won't follow the arc exactly.
If you were to have: 1.5 feet in the soil, 3 feet vertical sides, then an elliptical arc spanning 14 feet, with an additional 3 feet height in the middle (making it 6 foot max headroom), then you'd need 25' 4" of pipe. Call it 26 feet.
Best of luck.
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- How do i caclulate how much pipe to order? i.e. if i want to have this 6ft high in the middle(min) and it has to span an area 14ft how do i calculate the lenth of each ARC of pipe? I am not mathamaticaly minded so dont know.
The complete circle is pi x d, = 22/7 x 14 (where d is the diameter of the circle)
=44'
1/2 circle =44/2
=22'
This would be 7' high in the middle.
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thanks guy...
..will pass it by the hubbie :-)
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Good advice from every one lots to think about many thanks.
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but what would you search for?
tubing all round search
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Hi
I think i am going to go for the tubing idea, but i am going to get rebar metal poles rather an bamboo sink some into the ground and that should hold it in place along with some guide ropes.
I am going to call travis perkins tomorrow and see what they have.
I am really excited :-)
I have my boysenberry in a pot and it should be ok for 2-3 weeks. I can get the fruit cage done and the boysenberry planted before i go on holiday - exciting
many thanks to all the invaluable help and special thanks to pete 10 for letting me piggyback his posting
:-)
Will publish pictures as it goes up :-)
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look in the yellow pages under steel stock holders
ring one up and ask for a price on 1/2 " ERW tube
should be about £5 for a 6 metre length
Tim
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Nice one Tim will give it a go .
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i think i still have the 12 or 14 foot carbon poles from my old tunnel tent i think there are 4 of them. very bendy and VERY STRONG. if you are going for a domed effect they may be ideal. i f i still have them and you can do the postage, you can have them ;)
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I've found that a nice easy (cheap) way of using a ball system is geting a bag of 50 'plastic play balls' from Early Learning centre and using them for small frames. For larger frames I've used some old tennis balls that I've 'surgically enhanced'.
A friend has done something similar using old wood blocks taken from pallets, although he uses them with copper pipe as they tend to bend bamboo.
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you could try poly pipe,the sort thats used for waste pipes .it wouldn't bend if you thread bamboo through it and its easy to join at the corners with all the fittings that are available, I'm sure it would be cheaper than £300
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we got an old tent frame fro a car boot and ray jiggled round with it and we got two frames and some metal posts to tie sprouts up
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For a large fruit cage, how about using a polytunnel, but using netting instead of the polythene? Ebay has some pretty big poly tunnels for under £400, or maybe you could get a second hand one cheaply? MAybe the polytunnel maunfacturers would be happy to sell just the tubes? ???
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I used copper pipe clips fastened to the inside of the beds and pushed the pipe (reclaimed from a farm water supply system) through them into the earth, but like Melbourne 12 suggested they are a bit lacking in rigidity
(at least it means they wobble when the bl**dy pigeons try and land on them). The picture's of the seed bed, but I did do it on a larger scale with thicker pipe.
If two brackets were used at each end and were further apart on the pipe vertically it would stiffen the structure.
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I just got a second quote, £245. For all the scafolding needed to make my fruit cage and netting.
Just not putting it up.
So now i have to rally the troups ::)
So now i have to convince the hubbie ;D
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I have been thinking of using 21.5mm overflow pipe but I ave not had time to test it yet, quite cheap but I do not know at the moment how rigid it would be. Has anyone else used this?
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Hi
Try your local scrap metal merchant.
I bought galvanised scaffold tube from my local scrp metal merchant. he weighed the truck & paid scrap price(cheap). The local scaffold firms sell the damaged tubes to him.
Regards
Phil
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hi
i am paying .65 pence a ft plus vat for the tubing
£1.20 for the connectors
With the lenths cut to size and ready to put together and free delivery.
louise
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Where you getting them from?
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scafolding supplier rather scafolding company.
Thats why i have to put them up myself :-)