Allotments 4 All
Produce => Under Glass => Topic started by: nippie on September 27, 2006, 14:07:36
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We want to "fumigate" (?the right word) our greenhouse. We have bought a smoke candle, but there are no instructions on the tin.
Can anyone give us any advice please, ie time of year etc.
Thanks in advance, nippie
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What is it? Sulphur or a Fumite thing?
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It's a sulpher candle, is it ok to do it this time of year? There is nothing in the greenhouse at the moment.
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If you have had Red Spider Mite, the sooner the better. But otherwise, I leave mine until just before planting out.
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Ok Tim thanks for your help. We haven't had red spider mite that I have noticed so perhaps we will leave it for a while :)
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Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd ask my question in here ......... my two sulphur candles have arrived, and my tins DO have instructions, they are quite scary beasts these candles. I'm not surprised everything drops dead (including me if i'm not careful).
Question though, are these suitable for use in polycarb/clear plastic (as opposed to glass) greenhouses.
I don't want to wake up and find it's turned the whole thing opaque or melted it !
There is a phone number on the tin, so I can phone them next week if no-one here has the answer, but obviously here is the obvious place to ask first.
;D
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Never thought on't!
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Then I shall phone tomorrow and share my new found knowledge.
If it can fade and tarnish things, I'm sure it can melt too. :o
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if you care about your health and the environment and all the 'useful' bugs around then let the winter be the best fumigation of all :)
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oh now i'm in a quandary ! lol i suppose i can wait and see if a big freeze set in.
two steps forward one step back. it's all so confusing.
::)
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I don't use them for just that reason... but the RSM get me wondering....
::)
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I got RSM last year. Put on Armillatox with a paint brush which seems to have worked really welll although of course it is not sold for that purpose and I was actually just using as a soapy cleanser. ;)
Don't splash it on yourself though - leads to a bit of a rash.
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The environment? I care a lot. And I really can't see how a smoke in a closed geenhouse is going to harm it?
Not as much as keeping your engine running in a traffic jam. You do, don't you!!
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is this addressed to me, I don't know :-\
anyway I drive as little as possible and do turn my engine off
if you look around your greenhouse right now there will be spiders, possibly frogs and toads, bees, wasps, hover flies even, a butterfly or two, etc etc - so yes fumigate them as well
it is a fragile food chain and the micro climate is likewise delicate - I'm all for cleaning out a greenhouse, washing the windows for optimum light values, handpicking slugs and snails and relocating (sending them on their holidays :)) and there is so much you can do to keep so called pests out by maintaining the best humidity, heat, dryness, air levels as possible
would you let off a sulphur candle in your own home :)
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Good driving, Calendula - unlike the majority!! Yes - we only drive 2000 miles a year. But that's because of our age!
Not an attack - rather a furtherance of the topic. Ones engine - not yours!
Right - that environment. Yes, there could be a hibernating butterfly. Sorry! No more than those that die in our attics every year. The toads are long tucked into their winter quarters. The flying thingies are also looking elsewhere for food. The spiders? Shame about that. But whatever you do, I have never seen a shortage - much to my distress, when getting my hair tangled in webs every morning. And they seem to trap more hoverflies than whitefly. Slugs etc - holidays? The neighbour's plot??
I do agree with live & let live in the open. Everything is doing its best. Or so we are told. But what the hell do all those useless Sparrows do?
No - we burn lots of ordinary candles - which mess up the paintwork - but I'll spare the children.
Climate? Yes - I do work on that. But so often fail with RSM. And I do have to use predators. This year, too late. Stupid!
Don't know if any of that makes sense? Mostly, as I've said so often, I squidge everything nasty I can find, rather than poison it.
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:)
never fumigated my greenhouse,don't see the need,I don't seem to get to many pests, organic for years and years and parasitic wasps find any stray greenfly on my aubergines ;D touch wood ,never had whitefly in a greenhouse.
I like my spiders and spiderlings to much to kill them, and my toads under the flower pots!! /shades x
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Bully for you - but we're talking about blight, grey mould & the many diseases that can ruin your crop?
You must be a very good Christian!
But IF you had a bad infestation every year - what would you do?
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:)
you may think I'm dim,but It didn't occur to me you could get blight in the greenhouse :-[I'm very careful in the watering and ventilation dept,greenhouse door and windows open all season no grey mould.
soil is changed in the greenhouse boarders every year.maybe I'm lucky?
do you have to fumigate every year Tim? /shades x
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Never, Shades!! And far be it for me to interfere with your happy regime - long may it last!
But for the less fortunate it is sensible, I believe, to thoroughly sterilise the 'house each year. Even that doesn't guarantee a clear run, but so much effort is put into the growing season, & the crop is such high value stuff, I like to think that I've done all I can to achieve it.
I also pressure spray with Armillatox.
I'm sorry about the spiders, but there never seem to be any fewer in there! The toads? I make sure they are moved to salubrious surrounds before D Day.
End of season horrors below.
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Tim,
It never occurred to me that I could pressure spray with Jeyes or Armillatox - always use a paintbrush - thick or what ??? - but might be worth adding to Top Tips for those of us who are hard of thinking.....
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When I say pressure spray, I mean a thing with a long handle - & a couple of gallon capacity - with which you keep pumping to achieve the necessary pressure.
Not the usual Hozelock (with due respect).
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None taken - thought that was what you meant - picked one up in the summer for the roses (mildew)
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I am with Tim on this one ..My greenhouse's get cleared out completely .They are then fumigated with a sulpher candle or fumite etc ...Then all glass, benches and nooks and crannies are washed down with Jeyes or Armatillox..
I have enough to combat in the new season without having to cope with any nasties left over from previous year ...
without wanting to stir this up too much as folks will do their own thing anyway but.... if you are going to all that trouble to fumigate and still get problems then why bother and if you actually try to sustain the micro climate in a g/h I think there is less likely to be infestations of anything, i.e. keep the balance
also someone mentioned pressure sprays - be careful I've known people take their glass out using pressure spray :(
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Indeed - I don't mean a 'car-wash' type thing.
Why bother? No - you're not 'stirring'! But if I didn't, & use predators, chances are I'd lose the lot. Rather than get a bit of mould in October?
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I would *love* to fumigate my conservatory - but where oh where would I put the plants? The pests concerned are in and on them, so cleaning the building doesn't really help.
I wish to goodness someone would invent something that you could set off which killed the bugs and not the plants... or humans... ;D
I settle for a twice-yearly scrub of every surface I can see with household Domestos spray :) and then use predators if something does take hold.
moonbells (currently having little bugs fight aphids - I ought to have shares in Defenders...)
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i actually found a ladybird (my first of the season) in No: 2 g/h last night, probably cos there are loads of greenflies that keep appearing on my Little Gems.
I'm going to leave my fumigating a while longer yet !
;D
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You know I thought fumite bombs had been discontinued by the EU regs...
If they're still legal, hoorah!
Though the last time I tried it (about 7 years ago...) the house stank for days as it got in through the not-very-good door between the cons. and the lounge!
moonbells
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You really shouldn't be using one in a conservatory Moonbells... the H+S Exec. would have a blue fit!
:o
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One thing to be aware of when using sulphur candles is if you have plants growing in containers around the outside of the greenhouse. It's best to move these a few feet back as the fumes leak out of even the smallest crack and can still damage plantlife growing in close proximity. As I have previously learned to my cost. :o
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right, that's it, i got scared and have given my two candles to a bloke in the office, in exchange for some fuschia cuttings next year.
the g/hses are just too close to too much to risk !
;D
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I've only ever used sulphur candles twice, once in each GH. They were very effective, but the second time the plants around the 'big' GH were badly scorched. I was a bit wary of going into the GH even after leaving the door open for a while afterwards, and the smell is appalling - really gets up your nose! :o
No damage to wooden (cedar) frame or staging but noticeable staining of concrete slabs despite candle tin being placed on old bricks. On balance I think I would still use them again though. As for environmental concerns, sulphur is a natural product - think volcanoes!
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if i ever get this allotment and have a greenhouse up there, i might try them, but i've a 10' high hedge within 6" of g/h No.1 as well as the onion bed, strawberry bed, and soon to be garlic bed in between the two g/h.
i'm just going to have to keep my fingers x.
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As for environmental concerns, sulphur is a natural product - think volcanoes!
but what folk are planning to do with them is not natural at all
you could substitute sulphur candles with the worst possible nasty bleach or disinfectant and just blast your greenhouse with water - as Tim said with a pump spray - but just as nasty and just as dangerous to health
we are oh so scared of a bit of dirt, fungus, disease, insects and other critters, mould, and anything else because we think it shouldn't be there and we want to have power over it and obliterate it but we are dealing with nature and it should be there -
if you really want to be clean then a damp cloth and nimble fingers will get rid of just as much and believe me sulphur candles or any amount of disinfectant etc won't be a successful prophylactic against 'nature' in your greenhouse - it will happen
it makes me so sad that folk get caught up in the chemical industry - rant over :'(
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Calendula, it is true that the use of sulphur candles could be described as artificial, but in terms of polluting the environment. Consider this.... Every year Mount Etna vents more than one million tons of sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere. Etna is just one of over 1500 active volcanoes on Planet Earth.
Consequently, a few thousand or hundreds of thousands of sulphur candles are just a drop in the ocean.
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I think Calendula's 'rant' :) was pretty reasonable and I agree to a large extent with her opinions. I actually bought a sulphur candle 2 years ago because of RSM but having read the small print ended up not using it, the sulphur candle is affecting your local environment much more intensely than however many tons volcanoes spew up.
On the other hand, with regard to greenhouses, I think it could be argued that because we are creating artificial environments, not all of nature's reactions are natural. For instance I've never seen RSM outdoors in nature at large.
By the way, I must defend Armillatox: it breaks down completely leaving absolutely no residues - last year the normal garden spiders were back within a couple of weeks - and isn't like a bleach or even washing up liquid (which usually has amniotic surfactants etc). I don't know about Jeyes which I use to sterilise old pots - will have to research.
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my points could be expressed a little differently then
plutonium is 'natural' but what humans tend to do with it, and its effects on the human body is ___________________ (fill in your own descriptions) :)
volcanoes do what they need to do - sulphur is ancient and a byproduct, the microclimate in a greenhouse is there for a reason benefitting each other in a fragile chain - humans always want power over the chain, humans are intent on killing, if we could we'd cap every volcano as well
volcanoes are dangerous and so are sulphur candles
let's begin with the eyes - burnings, ulcerations, haemorrhages, loss of vision
skin = again ulcers, burnings eruptions, cannot heal and suppurates and festers
lungs = cannot breathe, painful breathing, asthma, pleurisy, pneumonia, tuberculosis
brain/head - throbbing headaches, hair loss, ringworm sets in
anaemia, bright's disease, epilepsy, meningitis, rheumatism, peritonitis and much more caused by the lovely natural sulphur
I actually care about people's health and well being and am just trying to encourage people not to use these and other horrendous products, there's no need and it won't give you a perfect greenhouse anyway but folk will do what they want - enough said from me :-X
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Calendula. I have obviously offended you so I apologise. :-[
Yes, volcanoes are harmful, but what I was trying to get across is that when compared to the colossal amount of harm done to the environment by Mother Nature, sulphur candles represent an insignificant hazard. That is not to say that I advocate using them willy-nilly.
As mentioned previously I have used sulphur candles only twice before. I tend to think of them as a last resort, and would ordinarily scrub out with a dilute Jeyes fluid solution or Citrox, twice a year.
I care about other people's health too, so I am sorry if I gave the wrong impression. Despite the 'inorganic' sulphur candle use, I do not use any chemicals or weedkiller or inorganic fertiliser in my garden, and have stuck rigorously to this policy for over 20 years. I think that possibly buys me some environmental 'credits' to use in an emergency.
Friends? :) ;)
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I was just interested in the discussion without realising I might be upsetting you, Calendula, so sorry from me too.
Like Spruance I try to be environmentally friendly (but admit that I have a bit of thing about RSM).
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oh crikes :-[
it's me who should apologise - if I hadn't of just realised there were replies to this it would have been left hanging (I opt for reply notification but don't always get it)
absolutely no offence taken or meant by me, just passionate and imploring about getting people to opt out of the chemical industry as much as they can and the trouble with forums is that even when you use smileys the messages can be read many ways, so sorry
:-* ( for spruance) :-* (for barnowl) :-* :-* :-* for everyone - whatever we cultivate in times of ease, we gather as strength for times of change
mama nature does ok really, we just have to find our own balance with her, she's a real cool gal ;D
back to the cricket ;)
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being pretty uneducated in the ways of the gardener, it's good to read both sides of the debate and from there make your own decisions.
when i first bought my candles, in higorance, i thought they were a bit like smudge sticks, how dozy is that ? having read the tin and listened to advice, i am not going to use them. funny thing was i got them from the organic gardening catalogue !!! you'd think they'd put a warning on the page wouldn't you ?
moral of the story, read more threads and understand what you're doing and why.
glad everyone kissed and made up. i'm positive no-one meant to offend anyone, it's just a sharing of knowledge after all, isn't it.
;D
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Hi Folks
I'm the fellow that MrsKP is giving the sulphur candles too, so i feel that i need to explain myself why.
Being a grower of exhibition fuchsias the strive for perfection is what the aim is. unfortunately to gain perfection chemical aids are required, holes and blemishes on leaves are down pointers in an exhibit, and any signs of pests can get you exhibit disqualified and after spending months taking care of your plants thats the last thing you want.
Modern society has got us that way, just look at your local supermarkets and veg counters and see how uniform everything is, [the down side is that everything is tastless]
I'm not trying to defend the use of chemicals, but to compete in todays flowers shows at the higher level, nature does not always have the answer and have to turn to any aid that is available, the days of shown as grown have long gone and unfortunately thats why a lot of local flower shows can no longer survive.
I hope i have not offended anybody and hope you understand why i use chemicals
Bob
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I hope i have not offended anybody and hope you understand why i use chemicals
Bob
You certainly don't offend me, use as little chemical as possible but sometimes there is no other way. People who will not use chemicals when the occasion requires it are the friends of certain pests, if you found Colorado Beetles would you not spray them?
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I agree that the fight against the chemical/drug giants is a very worthwhile one. The injection that could save eyesight is being pushed by the makers at £1000 a go, while they downplay their own alternative at £79!! Thus the NHS cannot afford to save people’s eyesight. So we are paying an inclusive-of-treatment fee of £450 a go privately. The White House, yesterday, was ordering us to have the NHS use US drugs.
To continue this rational discussion:
1. Most of us DO care for life around us. Most particularly about the health of our families. But I would rather use my own discretion in treating the food I grow than buy market produce heavily doctored chemicals.
2. To do this successfully, having tried Nature’s Own Treatment, I have found it necessary to start the year with a clean greenhouse. The treatment is contained therein & is no threat to the neighbourhood.
3. Unfortunately, I am not a good enough Christian to ban the killing of all pests – ants in the store cupboard, silver fish in the linen cupboard, flies in the larder, cockroaches in the kitchen (if we had them!), caterpillars on the Brassica (finger & thumb). I take great care in the use of slug bait (under cover) & I do not use yellow ‘Trappits’ which catch more hoverflies than whiteflies. Finger & thumb again on Peppers etc. I do use predators for RSM – difficult to see, let alone squidge - & let them do Nature’s work. I would love to leave it all to Ladybirds, but last year we only saw about half a dozen in the whole garden. And that’s not because we spray open crops – our only treatment being Bordeaux on Potatoes, which is a service to our neighbours as well as to ourselves!.
4. Sulphur? Don’t let the word scare you. It’s very useful on plant wounds against Botrytis - &, in passing, it has wide use in medicine.
Just one person’s view on life.