Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: MonsterMum on June 01, 2006, 17:19:28
-
I have got my plot ready to be planted and I think I have decided that I want to go down the beds route, to maximise harvest and makeit easier to maintain.
My question really is what can I plant together? I have loads that I want to grow but don't have a clue about what will grow well in the same beds.
-
how many beds do you have boo bah? the most important thing you need to consider is your crop rotation, which is a whole subject unto itself!
-
rotation!
the easiest way to organise your plot is work out some plan based on rotation groups.
this still allows for some flexibility but gives you the basis for your plot management.
use the search function on here to search for 'rotation' - it has been discussed before :)
-
Hi bbb,
What to plant with what?
Most veg will work together if a) they enjoy similar soil conditions, b) don't shade or crowd each other (unless they like shade) and c) won't unsettle their neighbours when harvested (e.g. by lifting roots).
Several people say they enjoy mixing plants on their beds, they say it confuses the bugs and makes for healthier crops (e.g. planting carrots and alliums together)
If you make mistakes (I planted my overwintering broadies to the north of a broccoli hedge, never again!) it's not a problem - you just learn something new for next year!
Have you got a good book about growing on beds, and what plants are happy together?
I'd recommend this one unhesitatingly!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0715317814/qid=1149185833/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-0411622-2192660
Rotation
The wiki is very good for info on rotating crops.
But with a new plot/garden I'd be very relaxed about rotation in your first couple of years, just get stuff in :) and don't plant anything in the same place two years running :)
-
Sarah - I have 16 4m x 2m beds, I hope this sounds about right!
Supersprout - Thanks for the advice. I have reserved a copy of the book at my local library
My brain aches with everything that I need to know. I think I'm trying to be too ambitious for a complete beginner. I have never grown anything before so I really don't have a clue and am learning as I go along
-
another book recommendation i can make is joy larkcom's grow your own vegetables. this should be available in any bookshop.
i too spent some nights reading last year, trying to get a grip on the very same problem :)
-
Yes it does all seem a bit daunting to start with, i still feel a bit like it myself and find myself having circular dreams about seedlings and spacings and weeds. the important thing to remember is that you will have successes and failures and you will learn each season.
sixteen small beds sounds like a very good start (much more organised than my own haphazard arrangement). i would divide these into 3 groups of 4 and use a basic four year rotation, numbering the beds on your plan 1a 1b 1c ...2a 2b etc etc. the other 4 beds i would give over to permanent crops which are not part of the rotation such as soft fruit and asparugus. hope that doesnt sound too complicated it isnt really when you have it drawn on a plan. good luck, keep asking if you get stuck (we all do!)
-
My brain aches with everything that I need to know. I think I'm trying to be too ambitious for a complete beginner. I have never grown anything before so I really don't have a clue and am learning as I go along
Join the club bbb! :P :-[
Puzzling over what to plant and where still occupies me on many a long train journey ??? Remember to have FUN and experiment to your heart's content, enjoy the first year, it's very special.
the important thing to remember is that you will have successes and failures and you will learn each season.
Plants are great teachers ;), so if you just get stuff in they will sweep you along as they grow :o :)
-
Hi bbb
Allotmenting is like starting a new job.! The first year you see what other people are doing (while tentatively weeding , planting and constructing,) the second you have a go, the third you learn from your mistakes and by the fourth you are starting to get the whole thing sussed. Ready for success with all th geat ideas. :D
-
For the purposes of rotation I have beds for roots, brassicas, others and permanents.
Would I put squashes/pumpkins with 'others'?
I know that asparagus and soft fruits are 'permanents', but is there anything else that should be included in this category?
Where should I put melons and rhubarb?
-
rhubarb would go in a permanent bed, i think you are supposed to lift and divide every five years or so. squashes and pumpkions yes i think they are others. melons i think (but may be wrong) you would need to do under glass. cant hink of any other permenents off hand unless you fancy a herb bed. i am sure someone will come up with some others!
-
My brain aches with everything that I need to know. I think I'm trying to be too ambitious for a complete beginner. I have never grown anything before so I really don't have a clue and am learning as I go along
So am I. Fun, isn't it!
Agree with Svea about the Joy Larkom book, and would also recommend the Dr Heyasson Veg and Herb Expert and also Sarah Raven's Great Vegetable Plot - both have lots of sound advice about crop rotation.
Cheers,
Rob ;)
-
So am I right in thinking that I put roots in beds together, so for example beetroot and carrots can go in the same bed, and the same for brassicas etc etc.
I thought I had it sussed and then my dh came along and confused me all over again ::)
-
Hi Baby BB. Welcome to the mysteries of crop rotation!
I found Gavin's site really helpful when I was starting and this article about plant families will help sort out what goes where http://www.keirg.freeserve.co.uk/diary/tech/rotfam.htm The rest of the site is also really good especially the monthly jobs planner.
Hope this helps and just enjoy yourself.
-
More permanents: Jerusalem artichoke and Globe artichoke.
You can move JAs about, but they are b*ggers to get out completely if you do. Globe artichoke are like rubub, start again every five years, but that's a loooong way off ;)
-
yes, dont be fooled thinking beetroot is a root crop - it's a brassica in disguise!
i group roots: potatoes, parsnips, carrots
brassicas: a group unto themselves, incl. cabbages, sprouts, broccoli, rocket, kohlrabi, beetroot
alliums and beans: garlic, onions, leeks, all kinds of beans and peas
i grow squashes, cucumbers etc where i can fit them in, same with sweetcorn.
tomatoes, aubs and peppers are the same group as potatoes (botanically speaking) but because they can all get infected with similar diseases, i grow them not together, but seperately. do not forget, however, that they belong to the same group rotation wise and hence you should avoid growing toms and potatoes in the same beds in subsequent years.
in reality, my brassica section is much smaller than my other two, so this is where i put in my 'others' group plants, mainly, to balance it out.
you will rarely grow the same amount of veg in the same space for each group.
-
Thanks Supersprout & Svea :). I was working on the classifications in the Vegetable Expert book where both JA & Beetroot are classed as roots ::)
Also, just another thought - if the instructions for spacing in the packets/in books are based on rows and beds can be planted closer together, how do I know how much space to leave between crops? I know this will depend on what the vegetable is but is there a principle to work to?
-
hmm, maybe beetroot is root, not brassica?
the seeds certainly look the same as kohlrabi, and the seedlings look very similar indeed. i havent actually checked in the book though :-[
-
Also, just another thought - if the instructions for spacing in the packets/in books are based on rows and beds can be planted closer together, how do I know how much space to leave between crops? I know this will depend on what the vegetable is but is there a principle to work to?
Also a beginner to this & a bit behind you - we are still clearing - hope to have one bed ready this weekend ;). I am also planning a bed system & asked about spacing recently:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,57/topic,20004.0 (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,57/topic,20004.0)
I have bought Pauline Pears book (published thru HDRA) "Beds" & it has proved to be a useful guide.
Regards
Saz
-
Swede and turnips are brassicas - Beetroot is Beta Vulgaris - I have mine in with my parsnips, in the same area as my alliums and carrots.
-
I think beetroot belongs to the beet family and can be grown with roots. Like RC says turnip and swede also kohl rabi go with the brassica.
have a look at this too http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1200/crop_rotation.asp (http://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profiles1200/crop_rotation.asp)
-
ah, thanks for clearing that up, guys. i'll know better next year then :rolleyes:
-
A word of warning, don't group all you Solanaceae together, keep your tomoatoes and potatoes apart, otherwise blight may spread more easily. Unfortunately because of the way my neighbours rotate their crops compared to mine, it is impossible for me to keep my tomatoes away from their and my potatoes.
-
I've got my outdoor tomatoes planted between my asparagus. Apparently they're good companions and I thought the feathery asparagus bushes might help support the tomatoes as they grow. The other tomatoes are beside my fruit bushes. Unfortunately I had to plant some Pink Fir Apple in the adjacent bed since I ran out of space. But you're right. It's one thing rotating your own plants but it's hard to take into account what your neighbours might be doing.
-
I've got my outdoor tomatoes planted between my asparagus. Apparently they're good companions and I thought the feathery asparagus bushes might help support the tomatoes as they grow. The other tomatoes are beside my fruit bushes. Unfortunately I had to plant some Pink Fir Apple in the adjacent bed since I ran out of space. But you're right. It's own thing rotating your own plants but it's hard to take into account what your neighbours might be doing.
You can try to match their rotation, however this then increases the likelihood of pests spreading.