Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: purple sprouting on May 28, 2006, 20:36:58
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My OH and I applied for an allotment in September, and despite the number of overgrown sites, had to wait three months for the council to decide if any were available. (Not really a problem at that stage but......)
I applied for two plots in December and took over tenancy at that time. My OH hired a cultivator and the entire two plots were turned in January. Since then I have planted potatoes, onions, garlic, carrots, herbs, brassicas, a huge pumpkin/squash patch, and sweetcorn, beans, flowers etc etc). Some of my two allotments are under black plastic to suppress weeds (the soil has been neglected for many years and this first year I don't have anything to enrich it, but I am composting like mad, and have about two tonnes of organic horse doo fermenting - together with grass cuttings being dug in etc.).
Imagine my suprise when yesterday I received a letter from the council telling me that the plot was not being cultivated to their expectations and could I either confirm that I no longer required the plot or fully cultivate it by June 19th.
This......... despite the fact that most of the site is completely overgrown.
Has anyone else had any similar experiences?? How did you respond?
Regards
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Purple Sprouting... I think that's just awful and has really made for angry reading.
There may possibly be a mistake though? If your council's allotment department is anything like ours (which, with three months for them to figure out what's taken and what's not, sounds like it) then could it be that they somehow have their wires crossed and think you are tenants of another plot? I think it would be very worth your while contacting them to check.
If not, I think that is absolutely ridiculous... surely they'd rather have fallow ground cultivated and obviously being worked on rather than just left? Sounds like you've done a lot, too. Grrr.
I have recently tried to help two people get a couple of allotments and, while there are loads of empty, overgrown ones, the information is a shambles. For instance, the website for our association says there are vacancies for full plots. The man 'in the know' on the site says there are, too. Call the council and they have no vacancies, supposedly with people's names on the list for 18 months waiting for the ground to be rotavated (council do it). So, my only advice is to contact them and find out what's going on. Best of luck.
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this seems very unreasonable sprouting. my lottie neighbours reckon it takes three years to turn one overgrown plot around, let alone two.
and it sounds like you are doing a BRILLIANT job.
does your local authority want to drive plotholders off the land to develop it? :-\
I've had letters in the past when I had a shared plot in Stevenage - it's a bit of a jolt >:(
if you have a friendly site rep talk it over with them
definitely find out who's responsible for overseeing lottie standards in the council, and talk to them in person - ask what you're doing that's different to what they expect, as soon as possible, if possible get them to meet you on the plot
has the local authority rep has visited the site, or are they working on hearsay?
were they looking at the right plot? it's easy to get them mixed up
keep notes of all phone calls and meetings, and copies of all letters
please don't be discouraged :) just make contact in person asap to clear up any mistakes or differences in opinion about what is a 'well run' allotment
hope you manage to clear it up with your local authority rep soon :)
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It might also be a case of the council thinking they are talking to the previous tenants...
Write down a list of everything you have done since you took over the plots. Add in a detailed rundown of the state of the plots when you took them over. Any pictures you may have will provide quick visual proof of 'what was' versus 'what is'. If you want... add in the costs expended (particularly those you had to outlay because of the state of the plots e.g. black plastic)... all good fiscal proof of committment.
Then get to grips with the author(s) of the letter. Preferably in person, so that you can get precise answers to:
1. Why this was ever sent out.
2. On what basis.
3. On whose say-so.
4. Who provided the information stating your plots were neglected. On what date(s) was this information logged. Were photographs taken?
5. Who, in their department, checked their information, prior to the letter being sent out. And get a copy of their report. They might have a plot-mix-up.
Hopefully this will sort out the situation. Swiftly.
Always a good idea to get them to confirm, whatever is said to you as a result of this meeting, 'in writing'.
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and let us all know what happens. good luck, it sounds like you have worked exrememly hard, there must be a mistake.
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It's either a mistake or somebody being totally unreasonable. Go to the person at the top and insist that they see your plot personally.
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Agree with previous posts. Invite the writer to meet you at the lottie. From your description, wires are definitely crossed.
Sudden thought - the numbering system on our site is a bit strange which occasionally causes confusion. I hate to suggest this but are you sure you're cultivating the right plot(s)?
I wish you well. Try not to worry.
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Sudden thought - the numbering system on our site is a bit strange which occasionally causes confusion. I hate to suggest this but are you sure you're cultivating the right plot(s)?
I wish you well. Try not to worry.
The plot numbering on our site seems to be a law unto itself. Gawd only knows how the guy who delivers theh horse muck ever finds the right plots.
I can only wish you well and like others have said I just hope it is a paperwork balls up after alll your hard work.
Please post when you get it sorted.
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Hope you get it sorted quickly, I haven't got a perfect plot yet and my best I have been working for 13 years!
;D
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Thanks to everyone for their support and ideas - I am a lot clearer on what I shall ask the council tomorrow. Will feedback in due course.
Regards
Abb
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We had a letter like that last year along with everyone else on the site - and some of the others ( certainly not ours!!) are pretty good though i don't believe perfect can ever go with allottment!!
Turned out that the allottment sec had changed and the newbie thought he'd start anew and stir things up.
nothing came of it - but he did get quite a few irate phone calls.
Don't expect we'll be getting one this year though ::) ;)
Terri :)
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A neighbour of mine used to get one every year just because certain people had taken a dislike to him. I hope it's not malice in your case though.
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Tell me about it! I've only recently started allotmenteering and I got a letter last November too.
For anyone passing it this would seem reasonable because it was, indeed, somewhat overgrown. However, the reasons it was overgrown were:
- it hadn't been worked for at least 2 years
I was trying to be organic, so didn't want to spray it
- when I explained all this when I signed the papers (the previous January) I asked about the Council rotavating it and was told "hang on till after March when they did all the inspections
I had a death in the family so couldn't get down for a bit. When I did it was obvious nothing had been done. It was now too overgrown for an ordinary rotavator and needed a heavy duty one.
Back to the Council who said "What a pity you didn't chase us up" It's too late now. We'll only rotavate if you give up the plot and someone else takes it over".
I sent them a long letter outlining the state of it, the problems and saying I couldn't possibly do it in 2 weeks, but would undertake to make a noticeable difference by the next inspection. They agreed to this.
So if they actually mean it, you could try that. They did say that there was a waiting list - so it makes you wonder why some of the plots have (I've been told) been vacant for 4 or 5 years.
One of the problems is the "it takes time" nature of, well, Nature! versus the "you have a fortnight to bring it up to scratch" of the Council. Good luck with your quest. I think it sounds as if you're doing a great job too.
Basketcase
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This sounds very much like a mix up to me. All the previous advice is sound especially contacting the writer of the letter with evidence that your plot has been cultivated. Lets hope you get an apology. Our Committee are very good as they bend over backwards to try to help people and certainly give them enough time to sort out a previously neglected plot. We have a three letter system,: 1. a gentle reminder, 2. A more strongly worded one, asking if there is a problem, and the 3rd one giving warning that the plot will be checked within a certain timescale then they would be given Notice to Quit. If a plot holder gets in touch with the Secretary if they have a particular problem, like a death or illness in the family or any other reason, then they are usually very understanding and make allowances. So hope you get it sorted PS. busy_lizzie
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I had similar accusations made against me during my impostor incident. It seems organic growers are prone to these issues, due to the slower rate of clearance. I had only had the plot since July and cleared or covered most of it.
I just stood my ground and insisted I had long-term plans.
What to they expect beginners to do when faced with 17 perch of couch grass, docks and nettles; instantly produce 17 perch of crop covered tilth?
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Don't let the B****rds grind you down, I have enough trouble trying to get some of our members to turn a sod. We are a self owning site and too many members just want a cut in 12 acres of prime urban building land!!!! Over my dead body!
>:(
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:o
You stick to your guns dad! Hear Hear..or is it Here Here? Never did know!
;)
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:o
You stick to your guns dad! Hear Hear..or is it Here Here? Never did know!
;)
Hear hear.
:)
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;D
Thankyou! Now can anyone tell me why...where does it come from? These are the kinds of things I think about whilst weeding, maybe i need to get out more...
;)
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[offtopic]The correct term is, "hear, hear!" It is an abbreviation for "hear, all ye good people, hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say!"
Of course, if the speaker is actually asking a question, such as "and just where do you think we should open the new strip club?" it's not hard to imagine that at least one yahoo in attendance might yell, "here, here!" But this would be the exception that proves the rule.[/offtopic]
any feedback you can give us on your situation, purple sprouting?
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It might also be a case of the council thinking they are talking to the previous tenants...
Write down a list of everything you have done since you took over the plots. Add in a detailed rundown of the state of the plots when you took them over. Any pictures you may have will provide quick visual proof of 'what was' versus 'what is'. If you want... add in the costs expended (particularly those you had to outlay because of the state of the plots e.g. black plastic)... all good fiscal proof of committment.
Then get to grips with the author(s) of the letter. Preferably in person, so that you can get precise answers to:
1. Why this was ever sent out.
2. On what basis.
3. On whose say-so.
4. Who provided the information stating your plots were neglected. On what date(s) was this information logged. Were photographs taken?
5. Who, in their department, checked their information, prior to the letter being sent out. And get a copy of their report. They might have a plot-mix-up.
Hopefully this will sort out the situation. Swiftly.
Always a good idea to get them to confirm, whatever is said to you as a result of this meeting, 'in writing'.
Extremely sound advice, if I may say so. If you put all of these questions in writing, it may be worth heading it up "Freedom of Information Act Request". The FoI Act states that they have to respond within 20 working days. You may not get names of informants, though, which it could be claimed are subject to the Data Protection Act.
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They have to respond within 40 days, and they're entitled to charge £10 for the information. Treat this as a last resort, if only because it's unlikely to lead to good relationships in the future!
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I think that provided a letter or email is politely worded, it need not sour relationships with the local authority.
FWIW ....
From the DCA website: http://www.dca.gov.uk/foi/faqs.htm
How do I make a request?
The Act requires that all requests:
• Are in writing (this does include emails)
• state clearly what information is required
• state the name of the applicant, and an address for correspondence
What happens when I make a request?
When a public authority receives a request for information, they must respond as soon as possible, and not later than 20 working days after receiving your request.
The public authority will consider your request, and reply.
The reply should confirm or deny whether or not they hold the information, and either provide the information you requested, or explain why it has not been provided, quoting an exemption under the Act.
What happens if the public authority doesn't understand my request?
Under the Freedom of Information Act, public authorities have a duty to advise and assist requesters. If the public authority doesn't understand your request, they will contact you to clarify what it is that you want.
What does it cost?
If you are requesting information contained in an authority's publication scheme, the scheme will also give details of whether (and how much) the authority will charge for providing the information.
If you are requesting information not contained within the publication scheme, the authority may charge you a fee, as laid down in Regulations.
These Regulations provide that requests which will cost less than £450 to answer (£600 for requests to central government) will be free of charge, although public authorities may charge for the cost of photocopying and postage etc.
If your request will cost more than this to answer, the public authority can refuse to answer your request, answer it for free, or charge up to and including the full cost of answering.
If you refuse to pay the fee, the public authority can refuse to supply the information
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Well!!.......I used all of the advice given when I approached the council, unfortunately the allotments officer was not available for comment, for ages, as she works part time and had last week (ie the half term) and the week before as annual leave.
This was fair enough (I am a working mum, and was on leave myself last week for the same reason).
The problem would appear to have been a combination of all of the suggestions - new broom sweeps clean - numbering all over the place etc. I received a written apology this morning, and feel very humbled - the letter was detailed and very, very explanatory and (well ??!!!) nice.
However - in an unexpected turn of events - I have been offered (and have accepted) an allotment at a site close to my home. One that I applied for years ago and was told that it was unlikely to ever become available.
This time I will take lots and lots and lots of photos of the site when I took it over to compile evidence of progress if I get asked again..........
Regards from a very happy allotmenteer!!!
Ann
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Phew! Good going purple sprouting, glad to see a happy resolution :)
And good luck with the new plottie!
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Sounds like all's well that ends well.
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An interesting story, and useful to others in many ways. Congratulations on the outcome.
I have taken on a second allotment in an almost completely neglected field surrounded by lovely mature trees and tall overgrown hedges. The council cuts the grass twice a year, but in between it grows rank and unhindered with large patches of nettles and brambles. There are several sites that seem to have been abandoned and three that are actively worked and productive. Another contains a ramshackle home-made shed (I love it, and want one like it) whose owner sits in an old armchair dreaming away amid a chaos of old barrels, broken tools and toys, and rough grass and nettles. The council man who measured out my plot and handed it over just looked in his direction and shrugged.
I find the place a complete paradise; I am starting to slowly dig out my patch of grass plus experimental "lasagna" beds and am completely content there.
However, your story has made me wake up. If the council were to change officers and try to get a proper grip on the site, there could be similar trouble, and I now plan to take a set of photographs myself, just in case. There is no way I can get my plot cleaned and productive within a few months, and if letters are ever sent out like yours, I need to have some sort of defence ready.
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Another contains a ramshackle home-made shed (I love it, and want one like it) whose owner sits in an old armchair dreaming away amid a chaos of old barrels, broken tools and toys, and rough grass and nettles
Yep, that's my next door neighbour too. And long may it continue :D
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It's wonderful, isn't it, that for a few pence per week one can rent a bit of England and be at peace with yourself among greenery. It was while the council man was telling me I was not allowed to put up a shed without written permission, and moreover it must be a "purpose-built shed", that I looked over at the ramshackle one, and he shrugged and grinned.
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What's a purpose-built shed anyway? You could build one out of old bits of pallet wood and it would still be 'purpose-built'.
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From his tone, I gathered that he meant NOT home-made but shop-bought and tidy-looking. And especially not like the one already on the site. However I liked his despairing shrug and "I don't know why we let Mr X get away with it" which encourages me to think that if I make runner bean support and throw a tarpaulin over it, I might be able to shelter from the rain without calling down the wrath of Rother.
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???
Am I the only one baffled by the thought of an allotment site without sheds? For years i looked out of train/car/bus windows at these lovely idiosyncratic buildings on allotments and dreamed of the day when i would have one! How can a person be expected to take all tools necessary for every eventuality on the crossbar of a bike etc? My hat is off to all those who manage, I struggled with a bootful of tools til i got my current plot, now I can walk there, much more ecologically sound!
;)
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I can't imagine; a shed is the first necessity of lottying. Digging equipment comes a poor second.
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Am so pleased the mix-up has been resolved so pleasantly... and a plot near your home, too! ;)
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???
Am I the only one baffled by the thought of an allotment site without sheds? ;)
Sheds are not allowed on our site, only those low storage boxes. It was annoying at first, but now I got used to it. The trouble is that some of my tools are too long to fit in my box, so I have to hide them in some bushes.
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no sheds...... aherm.... :-[ so where do you pee in privacy in the winter when the toilets are closed incase the pipes freeze?
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no sheds...... aherm.... :-[ so where do you pee in privacy in the winter when the toilets are closed incase the pipes freeze?
:-[ I'll whisper busta: among the PSB
;D
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when the toilets are closed incase the pipes freeze?
Toilets? Which toilets ???
Greenhouses, ponds and fruit trees are not allowed either. At least we have running water! And if that ever gets cut off, we're next to a brook ;D!
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Greenhouses, ponds and fruit trees are not allowed either.
I can understand ponds not being allowed (kids falling in them etc./public liability) but GREENHOUSES AND FRUIT TREES??????? WHY??????????????
And a shed is an intrinsic part of an allotment. I think at least 50% of the people on our plots wouldn't have an allotment if they didn't have a shed to hide from the 'outside world' in ;D
Crazy ......
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Toilets?
::)
Time spent on allotment... directly proportional to bladder volume.
No tea to be consumed beforehand!
No sheds permitted, nothing allowed above waist-height, no cover for baring the essentials, public footpath a few feet away and in full view, no public toilets in vicinity.
They don't make it easy for folk - particularly female folk - to get stuck into allotmenteering...
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We actually have a toilet on our site, which is getting a bit up market in that respect. The keys haven't been distributed yet though. It's down the far end, but it should be OK for the occasional poo, or if the family are down for some reason. I wouldn't waste pee though, it's too valuable on my crops.
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Glad to hear everyting appears sorted Sprouting.
When I moved into my area 3 1/2 years I scped the area, found the allotments closest to home and put my name on the waiting list - I got a plot at the beginning of this year, and, as it is about 50 yards frm my front door have several advantages:
1. Store all tools etc at home and take what I need to the site each visit
2. Store hand tools & wheelbarrow at the plot - cos I found them when I cut back the weeds! (so they weren't originally mine to start with)...anything I find at site, stays at site.
3. Visit site each evening for 30 mins - 3 hours to water, weed, digg, sow, tend. Rather than trying to get everything done quickly, I double dug the first bed, which was then planted (spuds & broccoli), then dug second bed (celery, onion, shallot, sweetcorn, carrot) etc.
- I only have three small 'half beds' around the (mature & heavily laden) Victoria Plum tree to dig - but these will be planted with overwinter crop (onion, kale, garlic).
4. Take photos of the plot at the beginning of each month.
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nothing allowed above waist-height
What?
No tomatoes, tomatillos, corn... etc
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I bet they grow runner beans there.
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Whoops! Imagining lots of people bent over double to stick to the waist-high rule! ;)
Not quite so draconian. 'No structures above waist-height allowed', but on looking about this rule seemed to be ignored when it came to plant supports. So canes are okay, and so are low storage boxes and cloches - but sheds and greenhouses are not. Was a little unsure about a trellis to support last year's cucumbers, but although it got a look or two (unorthodox construction), all was quiet. Sadly, the trellis lasted a lot longer than the cucumbers (slugs).