Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: mat on May 24, 2006, 18:38:38
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???
Okay, so there is currently a knife amnesty and BBC news quotes:
"Knife possession legislation is being reviewed across the UK."
What is the current law for me, who has a Opinel knife (like a pen knife) which I take to the allotment? What happens if I was stopped and found to have a knife on me???
What happens if I go out walking in the hills with my pen knife in my rucksack?
Anyone know what the law is???
(p.s. I am female, and not one to use it on any living thing, let alone a person!)
mat
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interesting point. i dont know answer though. i too (like most gardemers i suspect) carry a knife, a swiss army one, and i've never thought about it really. I would like to assume tht the police would use their discretion, but... . dont know what they would make of my father in law who carries a machete in his van!
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There was a police officer being interviewed on the ITV news earlier today who said that it's perfectly legal to carry a pen knife with a blade up to 3.5" long as long as you have a valid use for it
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I think it's to do with having a valid use for the knife e.g. hiking (it'd be daft to go for a hike without one), gardening, going across to cut Gran's lino.
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Wonder who assessed the critical effect of the extra half inch over 3.5"?
Depends on whether you wear your heart on your sleeve?
Not a day goes by without my using my Victorinox.
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it's about having a lawful reason to have the knife; if you need it for something, it's a sensible size, and it's reasonable to have it on you at the time, that's OK. If you're lurking about in a subway with a twelve-inch carving knife down the back of your trouser belt, that's a different matter.
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Thanks Guys... I need to measure my knife; I think it is 4" but it sounds as though the extra 1/2" will not be a problem from your comments!
I was asking, as I realised at the end of one day a couple of weeks back, that I had gone to Tescos after the allotment - with the knife accidentally still in my pocket - and some shops have said they will start screening...
mat
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I wouldn't worry mat. A gardening knife travels in my rucksack (which passes for a handbag) at all times - essential for e.g. cutting string/tape, opening parcels, prising, fishing keys out of drains, hacking mud off boots, and borrowed by knifeless tradesmen everywhere. If screening happens, it won't be Good Life lay-dees who are first in the queue.
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Machete in the van, penknife in my pocket, and stanley in the toolbox, a veritable arsenal, but all essential tools. And 'tool' is the word to describe them, not weapon!
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Rarely go anywhere without a penknife, only work but try getting one airside at an airport
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:o Hmm! I have an old butchers chopper or is it cleaver on show in the back of my car :o praps best cover it up eh? but very handy tool for slicing up the stalks of the P/S/Broc, cabbage, sprouts etc: oh! and wood. ;D
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I am a thorough Victorinox addict. Have at least four of the tiny ones on various keyrings with blade, file, scissors and screwdriver. Plus a whopper computer fixit one (toolkit in pocket form) and two gardening ones - tri-bladed which are tricky to get. One's a reserve for when I lose the other!
One I found in the middle of a rainforest after carefully leaving all of mine in the UK :o.
At any time at the lottie I'll probably have three of them, assuming I've got car keys, garage keys and a garden one! All of which have been used for string, cutting veg, trimming those inevitable broken nails...!
Having said that, if I ever find myself under attack at the lottie, it won't be a knife I use to defend myself. Hubby taught me elementary quarterstaff fighting... with a rake! ;D
moonbells
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Sounds like my little Opinel knife is a childs toy compared to some you guys carry around ::) I'll stop worrying ;D
The rake idea is a good one ;D
mat
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I have a billhook, anyone attacks me and they'll need an ambulance... and probably quite a few buckets ;D
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:o I wouldn't go near a lottie person with an array of garden tools at his/her disposal :o even a garden fork would keep me at bay :o ;D
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Anyone who tries it on at my allotment needs their head examining, if there are psychologists in hell that is. I think I'd probably start with the grass hook, swung at throat height.
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That's the spirit, ALLOTMENTEERS FIGHT BACK ;D ;D
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Honestly you lot! ;D
The thought did strike me though the other day when I popped into Asda straight from gardening and I had my pen knife in my pocket and my curved blade gardening knife in my handbag. What with those, 2 pairs of shears, 2 tree loppers, a saw, several pairs of secateurs and a sythe in the boot, I think my pen knife is the least of my worries! :o
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This case might worry some of you then - basically this man had a Victorinox in his car and was driving to a meeting in London. He ended up being arrested and charged, made 5 court appearances and was eventually found not guilty by a jury. The fact that he had a baton in his briefcase too probably didn't help his case.
http://www.antiwar.com/spectator2/spec602.html
And a sensible, interesting (unofficial) police viewpoint on the above case
http://coppersblog.blogspot.com/2004_12_01_coppersblog_archive.html
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this one is probable stupid but this one is my fear
alone at home with the kids (5 and 2) hot day all doors open husband at work
stranger walkes in what do you do ( kitchen knife ) there over the size allowed
with any luck it will never happen but stranger things have happend at sea
how would a court look at that because if anything likethat ever happend im pritty sure they wouldnt be walking out of my house i do fret over things llike that and i would probberbly do some dammage to them for 2
reasons reason one my kids are in the house there safty comes first
reason two how dare he even think of entering my house with my kids in
iv offen read the news and thought what would i do in that situation
and there has been a lot of car jackings near me so in my car is a bat (and ball) along with spade rake trowle oh and dont for get the hand bag the only things in it are heavy items as i dont use a handbag its under the seat just in case i use the one under the seat as a storage bag ie a cup a falsk a first aid kit there is a couple of other unusual things in there too all house hold but not normaly found in a handbag ( i couldent fit the kitchen sink in which was a shame ) i am sutch a fretter about things like that silly some times but you just never know nowadays
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lou lou,
I'm the same about worrying if anything happens when I'm out in the car. All my lottie tools are in the boot but I do keep a very large pair of scissors with very sharp blades in the pocket of the drivers door.
If anyone asks why I tell them that it's in case I need to cut the kids out of their car seat harness if there's an emergency.
Tabbycat
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my other half wount be impressed now what a good idea for the door pocket i dont know why we do it but we worrie far to much some men are too layed back well i know mine is ;D
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hmmm...can you worry to much? Don't get me wrong, I worry about my kids and my darling constantly, has been the cause of critically high blood pressure, panic attacks and a complete distrust of people......but all I am doing is putting myself in an early grave, where I will be no use to anyone, and causing the kids to have no trust in other people. I wouldn't want to carry a large pair of scissors in the car because I would be concerned that my kids would get their hands on them, they know better than to play with scissors, but there is always that 1 in a 100 event, and also, if you are under threat and attempt to use them, could a stronger quicker person get them from you and harm you! And what about if you were to use them on someone by accident, I mean if you felt someone was threatening, but actually quite innocent? And you are talking about taking someones life, could you do it? You (I don't mean you personally whoever is reading this, I mean the great 'you') say yes, as I do if your kids, you or your other half were under threat, but I wonder how many could and would when the chips are down. It is easy to say, yup, I would, and yes, Emma Jane sits here and says that if her darlings were threatened, she would do whatever it takes to keep them safe......but......... :-[
Cor.....did I wander off topic and then back on....?
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Emma Jane - you are right that we all worry too much. I never really did until I had children. I try and keep it under control but I find now that I think about how I would deal with a worst case senario and then I feel much better. My husband thinks I'm being silly but it makes me feel safer to have thought about things.
In fact I really think my worrying started as an offshoot of my post-natal depression. I deal with it now by not watching the news or reading the newspapers. It means I'm not very well informed on world events but I'm not depressed either!
I don't really know if I'd use the scissors or not. You can never say how you'd react in any given situation. I really do keep them there in case i need to get the kids out quickly. When I was a teenager my Mum's friend was involved in a multiple smash on the motorway. She couldn't get her youngest child's harness undone and he died because no-one could get him out quickly enough & the cars caught fire. The memory of it has haunted me for years. I know that car seats have improved and mine are the ones that have the seat belts across them now but I still have the scissors - They are Duck-Taped to the side pocket.
Tabbycat
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I find it amazing what you all write! A lot of peope think the same, self preservation and fear is at the base of it all.
I don`t want to hurt anyone but More importantly I don`t want to be hurt by some pratt with an attitude or mental dis-order, I would protect myself or someone else being attacked if I possibly could.
I have always maintained I would use ANY force neccesary to do this.
I OFTEN carried a sheaf knife on belt as I used it day in day out on the farm for anything from cutting bale twine etc. (Also cos it was "ard")(I was young!)
mostly carry pen knife because they are so useful for ANYthing.
Always carried pepper spray in cab for any evetuality on night shift(don`t now cos out of date) but did need to use WD40 and lighter to get rid of serious potential threat once :D
In hind sight I could laugh and it was really funny in a evil sort of way but I could have been in great danger and at the end of it all, WHY should I have to be?
ME comes first.
Look at Tony Martin, what a hero. blast the intruders either through anger or fear, matters not, justice should have been a medal not a sentance.
How many times had he been burgled?
If someone walked up my stairs at night, the ONLY reason I would ask,"who`s that"? would be through fear that it was someone I know or some stranger in desparate trouble...
peaceful life is our human right but the potential of danger frm the minority is still a threat so one has to be sort of ready, instead of a statistic.
I once asked the authorities about the legal power of citizens arest.
The answer was not forthcoming but eventually it was assumed that you could use ANY force neccessary......
I once had a person appear over back fence!!! Scary!
But oh, how those 5000 staples of poor carpentry must have smarted on those pinkies ;D
Person enters garden-unorhtorised-dog bites intruder-dog gets murdered by those in power of justice......What was the right thing to do for human rights???????????????????????????????????
Kill the uman give the dog a medal...
Why oh why do humans have "special" powers over animals?
Justice is a myth.
Don`t I waffle a lot :P
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I have been nagged and nagged by the kids and my 11year old Grandson. I am not a nervous person, spent years having to be in the house with 4 kids when Charlie was out almost every night on our lorries. Since being on my own (not that Charlie could have done much as he was disabled) I do silly things like being in the back garden and leaving my front door unlocked sometimes only locking it when I go to bed around midnight.. So at last I have got sensible, if I am in the garden I turn the key in the front door leave the side door to the back porch onlocked in case kids visit. My sister-in-law tells me I should keep all doors locked even in the day, she had an intruder who climbed her 5ft fence and entered her house by the back door when she was upstairs on the computer!! Terrible to think we are not safe even in our homes. Very sad.
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Gone ome people I know, never lock their car and even leave keys in ignition and it never get nicked :o
If I did that it would be gone in 60 seconds...............
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AndyH. Ah That is one thing I am fussy about. My insurance states that no payment will be made for a vehicle stolen if the keys are left in.. Oh dear sounds like I value my car more than my safety!!!! and it's only an old banger ;D
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;D Thats true Lorna
and how many of us keep £25 worth of rubbish in the garage and £10000 of car(not mine) on the driveway! :-X
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Gone ome people I know, never lock their car and even leave keys in ignition and it never get nicked :o
If I did that it would be gone in 60 seconds...............
I know a guy that used to leave his engine running to warm up his car in winter, it was a lovely Audi convertible worth about 23 grand, thieves took it off his drive, he never saw it again and not a penny did he get off his insurance company. :o ::)
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Well,Well,
What has the world come to when a garderner cant have a penknife in their pocket.
All of you are saying much the same thing.
No one on God's earth will ever stop me carring one.
I'll bet all of us has had a penknife from been a young lad or lass.
If we did everthing that Goverments tell us to do I asm afraid life would not be worth living.
Sorry but when I have read all your letters I could not help myself.
Deryck
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I think the whole point is that you CAN carry a penknife in your pocket, just so long as it's of a reasonable size and you have a reason to be carrying it
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That is the truth really, reason for carrying anything that could be a lethal weapon.
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When I was 19 I was charged with possession of an offensive weapon. This is what happened.
On my way out of the door I noticed it was raining and so put on my dad's raincoat. It was late at night and I was going to the garage to get some rizla. Half way to the garage I got stopped by a squad car, they said that I matched the description of a suspect in a mugging that had just occurred, and that I was going to be searched.
I was not bothered as I had nothing to hide. Imagine my surprise when they fished a large folding lock knife from my coat pocket. It was my Dad's fishing knife, and the coat, I had absent mindedly borrowed, was my father's coat that he used when fishing, he had obviously left the knife in the pocket.
I was arrested and charged with:
Possession of an offensive weapon
Mugging
Possession of a class B drug*
Assault
My father's explanation that the knife was his made no difference, they pressed ahead after I was positively identified by the victim, he later withdrew this identification after he saw his real attacker in the street a few days later. The police however pressed ahead with the weapon charge. The stress of this was huge, but to my surprise the charges were dropped without any real reason why being given. My Dad never got his knife back.
*the 'drug' was another thing found in my Dad's coat, they thought it was a tiny piece of cannabis resin, it turned out to be a little bit of twig.
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arrested for being in possession of a dangerous twig! ;D
Excellent! (not funny at the time though....
We got searched at gatwick once, we were really young and for a laugh we were tricking a mate, saying we had this drug called purple something?
It was a sealable small bag with polystyrene balls from the bean bag in it.
The police took a lot of convincing! ;D
Then upon searching the car(mums) they found a bra in the glove box???
Not mine!
In a leter year I was in a wreck of a car I had been given by a farmer that was now a PC, asked what was in the boot I said I don`t know, upon opening it they found it full of water and blood and feathers!
Wanted me to tell them what was underwater! Not putting my hand in there, you can if you like! They didn`t and I proceeded.....
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And do you think that the really naughty boys and girls out there are going to hand their knives over to the police....me not think so
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Dragging the thread back on-topic, as far as I was aware, swiss army knives and clasp knives are street legal. I even took one with me to Iceland 2 years ago, via Heathrow. As requested I just needed to put a swiss army knife in my backpack at customs to go into the luggage hold.
Bearing in mind it was post-9/11, and the fact they made a fellow group member post a fruit knife home, as it was in her hand luggage with her apples :o, I'd guess the authorities are pretty relaxed about Swiss Army Knives. Whether they should be, is another topic... :-\
Dave
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Customs and check in staff are idiots. full stop.
Poweing hungry sad ******** jealous of you going on holiday.
they sell cheap lighters in air side at india. they take your money then confiscate the goods! Where do they think we were going with them?
A rucksack at Gatwick going out to red sea, can`t take that as hand luggage! Bigger ruck sack just went through, had to buy rubbishy bad and put some items into it and the rest I packed in mates luggage at the desk, then they asked him if all packed himself, after watching me put my spare rubbish in his bag, he said yes and they let us all through.
All the same contents between the 2 of us! then we lied to them and through we went.
Idiots the lot of them,. No real set of rules, just depends on attitude of check in pratt.
took bag through once and it got checked for explosive remains, it got through! It had had low explosives in it but was not detected.
why do they confiscate nail scissors from hand luggage!???
They were there to cut cable ties off main luggage when reaching destination, luggage cable tied to stop theiving gits in luggage handling.
(on a roll again)! >:( >:( >:(
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I came up against a miserable, jobsworth moron once, when I was flying back from Ireland after New Year. He had obviously over-indulged big time and was really p***ed off at having to be at work.
I was catching a flight with my OH, my daughter who at the time was 18 months old,& I was obviously expecting baby number two. What did he choose to confiscate?........
My daughter's baby cutlerly that was in my handbag! He said the fork was a "potentially offensive weapon". I pointed out that I was hardly likely to be a hijacker considering the condition that i was in.
I then told him that he could keep the spoon as well, as he obviously had the mental capacity of a toddler himself and would need them to eat his lunch with. >:( ;D
At this point the OH lead me away quite quickly before I got blacklisted by Dublin airport!!! ;D
Tabbycat
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NICE reply! ;D
OH`s always ruin things by coming to the rescue!
The outcome could have been great by the time it got to The Sun ;D
Could have been front page news with a picture of your toddler in handcuffs behind bars crying,"mummy" ;D
(just off to a job at The Star!)
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That is a predictably twittish attitude, how are they supposed to choose who to let through with banned objects? Should they just stop anyone who looks a bit like Osama Bin Laden or what? The rules are there for everyone’s safety. Don't get me wrong, my work brings me into close contact with check in staff and they are mostly fairly unintelligent but they have a list of objects which are not allowed in hand luggage and that's the end of it, grow up and stop whining
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I'd have to agree. If there's a list of banned items, they're banned. They can't just have exceptions all over the place. It's an inconvenience us normal non-terrorising folk will have to deal with :P
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oooooooooo!
so what about the case of the rucksack???
Mine was described as having too many pockets and too big?
Mine was Much smaller than the one that just went through and had 2 small side pockets, thats it!
Pathetic. You can say stop whining, but it is stupid have rules decided by attitude.
I would rather ignore the terrorists and keep the same security.
sod the idiots who disrupt a peaceful life. All I wanted to do was take a rucksack as hand luggage with contents that were harmful, the reason being, a rucksack is easy to carry. bung it on your back and forget about it.
I was off diving and had BIG knife in luggage which I can happily walk round in public with it strapped to leg without any problems.
Too many people wandering around this planet worrying about rules, instead of sticking to their sensible guns
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common sense HAS to be used.
if you are between 11-21 and running around the streets in a shell suit and a baseball cap, demolishing car wing mirrors and are found carrying a blade ....... i'd knick you.
if you are a deep sea diver off on hols for a fortnight to a coral reef, i wouldn't.
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sod the idiots who disrupt a peaceful life. All I wanted to do was take a rucksack as hand luggage with contents that were harmful, the reason being, a rucksack is easy to carry. bung it on your back and forget about it.
I was off diving and had BIG knife in luggage which I can happily walk round in public with it strapped to leg without any problems.
Too many people wandering around this planet worrying about rules, instead of sticking to their sensible guns
Firstly there is a size limit on carry on luggage, so if they let someone take on an over large, rucksack they are in the wrong but it still doesn't mean that they should then let everyone carry anything they want onto the aircraft.
Secondly, if you think that everybody should be free to carry a diver’s knife onto an aeroplane then I'm shocked at your naivety. My freedom to be safe from knife attack overrules your freedom to be armed with a blade, end of story as far as I'm concerned.
Some very strange, stressed & drunk people travel by air, the last thing I want thrown in to that mixture is a weapon thanks, I'm sure you're a very safe & responsible person but sadly not everyone is, so why take the chance.
How about making a full psychiatric report for every passenger part of the requirement for air travel?
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You know, I wouln't have minded the cutlery being confiscated if it had been metal. I can fully appreciate that there are rules about the stuff you can take on a plane, but it was PLASTIC cutlery and not as sharp as the ones that they give you to eat your in-flight meal with, AND I'd checked with the security staff aT Heathrow that it was ok to have with me when I'd flown out to Ireland. >:(
My friend's husband is one of the security staff at a certain airport, and he freely (& cheerfully) admits to taking out his bad moods on the people whose hand baggage he's checking. Sometimes he does it because he's in a strop, sometimes he chooses "people I don't like the look of - people who look too happy", sometimes he picks an item that he knows will upset someone - one of the things he likes to do best is confiscate nice pens or the brushes from women's make-up bags.
He thinks it's hilarious when they get upset. I know that he is one bad example in hundreds of nice guys who are doing a very necessary job, but he genuinley seems to get a kick from the power that he has over people. He is totally unrepentant about it and sees being able to upset someone as a perk of his job. ???
I have to say that he's not one of my favourite people.
Tabbycat
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There are many words that describe people like him, unfortunately they wouldn't even be suited to watershed. >:(
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Firstly there is a size limit on carry on luggage, so if they let someone take on an over large, rucksack they are in the wrong but it still doesn't mean that they should then let everyone carry anything they want onto the aircraft..
The rucksack was half the size of the regulation size baggage and half the size of the rucksack before me. As I said, idiot staff who don`t know their job properly, and in that, I am right.... End of story.
Like Tabbycat.... Idiot staff who should not be employed in such a post.
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I think we all need to take a deep breath
Ready?
OK - breath out anger, breath in love (repeat many , many times!!!!!)
;D ;D ;D ;D
Tabbycat x
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yep another debate, time to end, go do some veggie stuff :D
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I wasn't talking about plastic knives but heyho ::)
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Just as an aside they use plastic cutlery on a local ward, for patients at risk of suicide/self harm.... but it is near the top of the tower block.... at least A+ E is at the bottom!
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Guess who'se partner packed a 1.5" makeup scissors / knife in her handbaggage at Mumbai airport? The x-ray machine picked it out - which amazed me - but it took the removal of every item in her bag, piece by piece and God knows how many re-passes through the x-ray machine before they could find it. As they would not tell her what they were looking for, she could not help.
My gardening knife has a 7" blade, serrated on one side, and with a chunk of blunt metal on the end of the handle. It is my old diving knife from way back. I could have a problem!
JeremyB
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Look at Tony Martin, what a hero
Sorry, but I think not. He killed the intruder with an unlicensed gun. I'm all in favour of protecting my family and property but Tony Martin broke the law intentionally to protect his property.
Ask anybody who owns a gun and has applied for a license in the proper manner what they think of people like Martin before labelling him a hero. God help us all if so-called 'vigilantes' end up armed with shotguns.
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Not only that, he shot the guy in the back while running away. That's the act of a coward, not a hero.
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Agreed but running away is also the act of a coward ?
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However poor my opinion of teenage burglars, I don't think anyone is justified in shooting someone who's ruinning away. If the lad had been coming towards him he might have had an excuse since he could have done it in fear (justified or not) for his life. But once the kid started to run away, he was no longer a threat.
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As I said I agree but I wonder if I'd do the same
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I wonder why the charles bronson films were so successful?
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I wonder why the charles bronson films were so successful?
Yes, I've often wondered why, as they were all pretty awful.
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Love or hate them they were successful because they hit a nerve which means people agreed with them deep down, at least for the majority.
Meaning no-one likes to harm people but the essence of it all was self preservation was the all important aspect.
If someone tried getting in my house to steal or worse then regardless of the "law" I would do ANYTHING to protect myself and the ones I love, as would any self respecting person.
There are many un-ethical and bad people in this world and if they decide to take an easy route for greed or gain in that manner then they deserve anything that is thrown at them in that course of action.
And yes, Tony Martin is a hero in my opinion. ;D
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I once tried to bring a ceremonial sword in from Spain through customs. It was a present for a friend. Wish I had'nt bothered, the Spanish customs guys did'nt see the funny side at all. Good job I spoke their language, thats all I can say ;D ;D