Allotments 4 All
Produce => Ponds 'n' Stuff => Topic started by: petmas on March 07, 2004, 10:08:02
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Anyone else noticed a shortage (or here total absence) of frogs this year?I normally have 30-40 buy now, seen 1 so far and he has now gone
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Have you seen this story about frogs ?
BBC Story (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/somerset/3534361.stm)
Creepy
Dan
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Poor creature!Yet as it is fully grown it must be getting the right food and surviving well.We have siamese twins in humans,so this must be the same sort of genetic problem.No I have not noticed a lack of frogs yet.Mine do not tend to appear until about mid March when the weather gets better and they are hopping about in twos and threes.Perhaps the bitter cold did kill some off in shallow ponds.Mine jump into my deep fish pond to overwinter.Whereabouts in the country are you,petmas?
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Amazing what Blue Peter does with double sided sticky tape!!Saw an article about this in the paper yesterday. I'm on the Sussex coast. Normally we get frogs by mid feb and spawn about now 'tho it often gets caught in the frost. Pete
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Frogs are in abundance in my pond this morning. Mating away like nobody's business. ::) ::) Ours look like your pic Dan, - like a Roman orgy all of them intertwined. The pond looks like it is bubbling over. Have been trying to get some good shots with my camera, but as soon as I come near, everything stops. ;D busy_lizzie
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Oh dear Dan - that poor frog :(
Glad to say they are all 'doing what comes naturally' in our pond so expect loads of spawn soon.
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Saw frogs spawn in my pond yesterday, so mine must be okay.
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We have less frogs than last year, but they are all going at it like mad, even caught a threesome the other day! Looking forward to lots of froggy spawn.
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Certainly is a warning of global warming.... but the blackbird and robin arent under threat as yet......true global temperatures have risen by 0.4-0.8 degrees over the last century and are predicted to rise by a further 1.4-5.8 degrees by 2100.......the associated changes in climate are also of concern. The rate and extent of climate change can be reduced by reductions in carbon dioxide emissions.....although carbon dioxide stays in the atmosphere for 100yrs so its too late to stop some change......a reduction of 60-70% in emissions will be needed to stabilise the climate. A consequence of climate change likely to affect these Isles is that the Gulf Stream could shut down.....resulting in a drop in temperature,although this will be counter-balanced by the rise in global temperature.
The species most at risk are those exsisting at the limits of their natural range and migratory species which visit these shores along with those in fragile habitats such as heathlands in the south.
Think thats a long enough rant for now so I'll get back in my pram and save my thoughts re. GM crops another day
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Not seen my two frogs this year yet. Last year I saw them climbing my beans. I wonder if I frightened them off when I felled a fir tree last Jan. Hope not.
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I know how they make GM tomatoes...but how do they make GM milk!!
Think someone is pulling your leg there Ozzy :D
Not unless you mean soya milk...that was GM'd before tomatoes...since the 70's I think.
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I do give a fork Ozzy ... afterall there is an organic option in supermarkets....although it IS rather overpriced and over rated ie...is it ALL organic from the roots to your table? How can you be sure???
Cows have 7 stomaches..alot happens in them, so GM PLANT material probably aint so bad...not as bad as NON-GM sheep brains anyway (=BSE)
As for the demise of blackbirds and robins...ask you nextdoor neighbour what their cats play with, as this is certainly the primary cause of the untimely death of our beautiful garden wildlife.
I think perhaps agriculture needs a bit more support...afterall farmers have been custodians of our crops and animals for 1000's of years. Supermarkets have only been around for about 25 years or so...so lets get rid of the monopoly that freezes out the farmers choices by the 'financial mafia' tactics of the supermarket / shareholding profiteers (whose pockets we line by our own free choice)
Im all for animal wellbeing but lets not get too confused about who does what why and when...
Heres a philosophical question ....What do you classify as GM??
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But Oz, dont forget energy derived fron combustion of biomass raises more serious environmental issues than the other renewable energy sources.
It produces air pollution and is land-greedy in its cultivation....resulting in lg areas of monoculture and loss of biodiversity. Emissions from conventional biomasss- fuelled power plants are similar to those from coal-fired power plants. Biomass derived fuels can generate high levels of ground level ozone which contributes to smog and emit aldehydes which are carcinogenic ; however there is the prospect that once a sustainable fuel cycle is established there could be balance between carbon dioxide input and emissions if the fossil fuel inputs required for cultivation and transportation are discounted......so there is some hope.
There is also some good info regarding alternatives to GM crops in the Actionaid report "GM Crops: Going against the Grain". They have had success improving yields using legume-based agroforestry and other means....interesting reading.
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Just like to say, back on the frog thing, that we counted 15 in our pond this morning (and a few newts) and we have 2 massive clumps of spawn! Go froggies!!
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As for sunflower oil fuels...please read the following datasheet on:
http://www.cedarvale.net/carrieroils/sunflowermsds.htm
the part where it says...
HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS
Combustion produces carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and thick smoke. In general, products of combustion (such as organic materials) may be irritating and toxic
Whenever you burn an organic product you always ALWAYS get toxic products ...even from 'natural, so called environmentally friendly alternatives'.
In fact the only perfect energy source (apart from the sun) is hydrogen...as this will release only water to the atmosphere when used as a fuel.
Always question the info provided by Greenpeace, or anyone for that matter. I noticed on the link you gave me that the people they asked about food in supermarkets was the supermarkets themselves....so how reliable is this??!!
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Oh Ozzy I think you need to read more stuff than the things posted on the spooky 'X-files' sites mahn.
Come on!!
Theres a wealth of info out there on science sites that will tell you the TRUTH is out there mahn.
GM has a scientific definition!! And its hazy...as we have been modifying cows sheep wheat for hundreds of years!! By dodgy inbreeding breeding programmes. If you want weird wonderful strange genetics things look at DOGS!!
Google the word polyploidy ...a natural property of plants...
And one MAJOR GM crop is......DOPE mahn. Which is grown on tracts of agricultural land that should be used for FOOOOOD....the local populations are STARVING!!
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Oh Ozzy, Ozzy the carcinogens will get ya no matter the degrees!!
Ignorance IS bliss...wish I was there....my own little bit of paradise!
Send me a postcard ...
xxx ;D xxx
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One of the major, major probs with GM crops is the stranglehold of the big corporations such as Monsanto.....which gives rise to a widening of the gap between subsistence farmers and landowners who can afford the new technologies. Recent research has shown that GM Soya has yields 6-11% lower than that of non-GM.The stipulations of the use of GM crops are reminiscent of those laced on high yielding varieties during the Green Revolution of the last century. Once again, the wealthy benefit and poor suffer.
Many of the worlds food shortages arise from the inequity between production and need..... and the debate re. GM can divert attention, funds and research away from alternative solutions to food distribution probs.
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I agree with you there RR. You know that alot of the 'GM' research is just taking advantage of plants natural ability to 'genetically engineer' themselves ie polyploidy. Essentially the scientists are doing this because it more likely to produce a viable crop....they are just manipulating what would happen normally in nature given time.
My definition of GM is introducing genes into something that wouldnt normally be there...like introducing insect genes into plants for resistance. Thing is I dont have a problem eating the crops but I do have a problem with the way they grow them, alongside non-GM crops. So when a supermarket says that something is non-GM, it might be but it might also have been in a field next to GM crops. And do they know if there has been any cross transfer of genetic material??
Ozzy thanks for the link...I belieive in the Gaia theory anyway..so pollution isnt such a big strain on the world. If we wanted to keep everything original and untainted on this planet then we would have to remove oxygen altogether...as this was a major catastrophe to the original life forms on this planet ;)
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Andi.... you say that GM builds on the plants natural ability......however genetic manipulation usually involves the intruduction of a "foriegn" marker gene such as those for antibiotic resistance.....the effects of which are uncertain.Also some transgenic soybeans hve expressed Bazil nut proteins which may give rise to allergen poblems....or that new traits may interact with existing genes to produce plietropic or secondary effects.
Oz ....three cheers for the Zambian govt who refused food aid from the USA as it could not be guarenteed GM free....the US refused to comprimise and convert to financial aid. Think one of the biggest threats to this planet is good ol' uncle sam....... what with non-signing of Kyoto an' all.
Scientific uncertainity is uppermost in the great GM debate and there is a close association between insufficient evidence and perception of the risks of transgenic crops.Accurate risk assessment is reliant upon scientific knowledge and scientific uncertainity needs to be converted into informed probability.
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soooo....frogs......nope, haven't spotted any in our garden yet, but we don't have a pond, we tend to find them lurking under all of our pots. Did find that wee newt on the plot last week. Ava would love a pond in the garden.....I sense yet another project on the horizon! ;D
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There is a veritable orgy going on in my pond as I type! :o
My fish do not look impressed, and are ducking n diving to avoid being grabbed by an over enthusiastic amphibian! (friend lost a fish to one last year) When you see the pond boiling with activity, it makes you wonder where they have all been alll year!! (hopefully eating my slug population!) I must get the small pond on the lottie sorted to recieve frogspawn, as it looks like I shall have plenty ;D Horrah for nature
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I don't know if I am the first but my first lot of spawn has arrived in my pond ;D As DP says there will probably be more to follow judging by the activity over the past couple of weeks. Trouble is, I haven't got another pond to transfer the spawn to protect the taddies from the fish so I'm afraid they have to take their chances every year :( Having said that, judging by the number of baby frogs I see each year, many of them seem to survive the jaws of my large orfe :-\ :)
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Hi lads and lassies!
Is there anyone out there who lives in the Torbay area who has frog spawn to spare? My pond is only one year old and as yet I haven't seen any frogs homing in............there is lots of cover for them so I would really like to have some.
Alternatively, maybe someone can tell me where I could take a jam jar and have some hope of collecting some myself.
MTIA
Tricia
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We now have piles upon piles of spawn. Every day I go to see the frogs, and there's more. They're well busy. I can hear them at night singing away as they get down to business. Looking forward to millions of tadpoles. Just hope it's not as dry as it was last year. Our pond evaporated some, which made it slightly scary for the taddies.
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You lot have took me back to my childhood, tromping around the pools with a string suspended jam-jar...This weekend I'm off around the lake by the plot 'frogging'. If I find any they're going in the man-made pond on my plot.
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You guys talking about frogs have inspired me! next year, I'm digging a pond on my plot ;D
jams
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Just couldn`t let this thread go without a picture.
(http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkPhoto?GUID=746941e0-7637-4fef-c0ce-6dca29a0390d&size=lg)
There are actually 35 frogs in this picture and five other similar patches of spawn. We counted over 100 frogs in this one pond this afternoon - they absolutely love mating in the mimulus.
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Mimulus? By 'eck, Hugh, that must be good stuff. Can I get it at the chemist?
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I don`t think so, ken, but no doubt we could find some room for you in the pond as well if you`re that desperate.
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Must be some pond to accomodate 100 frogs and two men, Hugh.
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Only one man, ken, only one. I shall be on the side with a boathook making sure that the frogs get their moneysworth.
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last year was first year for spawn and I beg'd some of a mate. They all disapeared over winter but there are a big fellow and I have seen a smaller one, could they be mine from last year or just a couple passing. There is no sign of spawn but I did have a really good clear out (of the pond)three weeks ago as I have some gold fish, but what I want to no is, are the prey to cats. Cats cant get near the water so fish are ok, But the frogs well I dont know very much about them.
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Hi Jock - I have loads of frogs in my pond each year. I also have two cats and they like to watch the frogs and occasionally chase them but I have never seen them harm a frog, so hopefully your frogs will be ok. The large frog you have seen I would not have thought it was from your last year's spawn as I think they take a while to grow to full size (although someone will probably tell me I'm wrong :) :D)
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Hi Jock, I'd agree with patricia - Cats don't seem to like the taste of frogs!
Goldfish on the other hand will eat your frogspawn and tadpoles, often sparing none. Maybe a seperate smaller pond for the frogs would be a good idea?
james :)
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I must confess that, with one pond containing large carp, Orfe and Tench, and another pond with goldfish, I`ve never seen fish eat the frogspawn. Certainly they will take a percentage of the tadpoles when they first hatch, but there are probably just as many fall prey to Great Diving Beetles, Whirligig Beetles, Water Boatmen, Dragon Fly Larvae and Newts (and one cannot make them stay in separate ponds). Nevertheless, we still have many hundreds which survive and can be seen as tiny frogs making their way to the safety of the nearest flower bed or shrubbery in late summer.
And don`t forget that herons are quite partial to frogs, and if they can`t get at the fish in the middle of the pond they will happily eat the frogs around the edges.
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I am delighted this year, as I now go down to my pond, at the allotment, and lay by the edge watching the tadpoles, they are magic and so many of them.
On the GM subject, I think there is NO other reason for this hideous messing about with nature, than money
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Not a single sign of frogs yet :'(-the water is OK though as the newts and insects all seem happy enough. Maybe a strain that has the sense to wait for the last hard frosts has evloved ;D.
Stephan.