Allotments 4 All
Produce => Kept Animals => Topic started by: Jesse on February 28, 2006, 22:19:07
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I've taken the first steps into the world of bees and have contacted my local beekeepers club through the beekeepers association. Still not sure if I'll be able to keep bees myself but I'm looking forward to learning more about bees anyway. oooooh, very exciting, just had to share it will you all ;D
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Do they have an Association apiary? If so, you'll have a place to keep them if you need it. If you get an opportunity to get some equipment second-hand and it's in decent condition, don't miss it. New prices are disgusting. Meanwhile read all you can, and grab any opportunity you get to see the inside of a hive.
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They did say something about having one but it's not located in my town, it's about 8 miles away, but it's great because it's somewhere hands-on that I can learn. The theory side of their training/club meetings are done at a nature reserve about 2 miles from where I live so that's great! I'm off to look at some books, I think you posted a link at my forum for books :D
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I probably did. https://secure.thorne.co.uk/cgi-bin/cgiwrap/millhouse/thorne/shop/shania?ACTION=thispage&THISPAGE=page53.html&ORDER_ID=143350053 . Ted Hooper's 'Guide to Bees and Honey' is a good one to start with.
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Thanks Robert, I've ordered the book, looking forward to it arriving. :)
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Once you've got bees, there are more I'd recommend, but you don't really need to know about stuff like queen selection yet. If your Association has a library (most do), make use of it. If you can find a copy of Ron Brown's 'Beekeeping: a Seasonal Guide', grab it. It's out of print and invaluable. There are a couple on Abe Books http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?bx=off&ds=30&bi=0&an=Ron+Brown&y=20&tn=beekeeping+a+seasonal+guide&sortby=2&x=29 . Another thing to do is join the Irish Beekeeping List at http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/irishbeekeeping/ . Despite the name, it's international, and it'll put you in touch with the latest ideas. Mite control methods, in particular, are developing very fast.
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National hives in the flat (the normal way of getting the standard UK hive - you have to assemble it but it's pretty straightforward) are available from The Apiculture Centre, Lawn Rd, Ashleworth, Gloucester GL19 4SL, tel 07810 476 554, Email theapiculturecentre@hotmail.co.uk for £36. Their ad in 'Beecraft' doesn't specify whether they're cedar or pine (I suspect the latter) but it sounds like pretty good value. They've got other equipment at good prices as well.
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thanks Robert, that is a good price. We were talking about bees today and think we've found a spot in the garden where they could go. I also found another notice in the farm shop advertising a beekeeping course at another club near us, as our local one is part way through the course already I might see if I can join this course, it starts at the end of the month. :)
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Do it, you'll learn no end. I learnt from books and what I could pick up on the net. The latter is seriously confusing at first; if you have two beekeepers together you always seem to end up with at least three strongly held opinions. But without it I'd never have learnt the latest methods, so it pays in the long run.
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I spoke to the chap today about the beekeeping course, it starts in just over a weeks time and we're (me and OH) booked onto it. :)
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sounds cool, my grandfather was a beekeeper in his spare time and we have hives on the lotty both honey bees and a bumble sanctuary area.
Any other lotty's got bees?
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Mine, illegally. There are loads of sites which have them legally; bees and allotments go together extremely well. I've had mine ever since I've had the plot, and they've never caused a problem.
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Hello Jesse, my husband Sam and Myself have had bees for three years on our allotment we have had no bother..the crops have increased on everyones allotment, just having the bees is a real pleasure just to watch and study them is a real privilege, I find them a stress reliever we are privileged to have them..In the very early days of beekeeping we joined the beekeeping association they were very helpful loads of information and the bee Inspector came to Inspect the hives what a mine of Information..Then Lo and behold beekeepers were behind every door I never knew a beekeeper before we bought our hives, now they seemed to appear from everywere,we thank them all for all there help O a book we were advised to buy for beginners was Bees at the bottom of the garden by Alan Campion..Highly reccomended, seen us through all our swarming seasons and spring feeding sorting out the queen cells and other problems..only been keeping bees for three years but we have loads to learn good luck with your bees I know you will never be stuck for help or advice..and the honey harvest Is wonderful Kindest regards Maureen..
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I'm encouraged to ask if I'm allowed to have some. What about vandals?
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This can be a problem; they're unlikely to push a hive over or anything involving physical proximity, but stone throwing can do a surprising amount of damage. Keep them out of sight as far as possible, and if you don't ask permission, nobody gets a chance to say no. It depends whether you can keep them hidden, or whether they'll be in full view of all around.
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Impossible to hide them from other lottie-holders so I'd have to ask. On the other hand there is a perfect spot between my shed and my greenhouse that is protected from stone-throwing. Thanks Robert. I'll read the association rules and think whether I can apply officially.
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thanks Maureen for your post :D
OH and I attended the first meeting last night and it was great fun. A huge number of people turned out, membership at the club is currently 70ish, last night approx 45 new members turned up to join. I learnt loads and we're going to take the option of keeping our hive at the associations aipary (sp?) for the first year. That way we have somewhere to keep it and it's at a place where there is always someone knowledgeable around to give us advice, a great way of learning and building confidence. After the fist year then we'll make a decision where to put the hive(s). The other thing I learnt last night is that beekeepers, like gardeners, are great people :)
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My next door Allotment, has a Beehive and it is secluded nicely, about 20 ft away, but when it is a Hot day, I often get Stung ,while working on my own Allotment. The Chap on this Allotment, is a really nice guy --very helpful, I haven`t got the `nerve` to tell him, his Beehive is a pain in the neck, even though I know, Bees are a good pollinators.
The Allotment the other side of him, nobody wants.
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Ah that's another important factor then, although from what (little) I've read about bees I think that some sorts are less aggressive than others. Actually I've never been stung by a bee but I live in terror of wasps. :o :o
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My next door Allotment, has a Beehive and it is secluded nicely, about 20 ft away, but when it is a Hot day, I often get Stung ,while working on my own Allotment. The Chap on this Allotment, is a really nice guy --very helpful, I haven`t got the `nerve` to tell him, his Beehive is a pain in the neck, even though I know, Bees are a good pollinators.
The Allotment the other side of him, nobody wants.
that's interesting to know. when you are working at your allotment are you in the line of flight for the bees going back to their hive? I've been told that if the hive is sited near a fence or hedge then it forces the bees flight path up above human height and should avoid situations like yours. I'd be interested to know because wherever we site our hive I don't want any complaints from other people, I want to get it right first time. :)
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You want something about six feet high in front of it to force the bees up above head height; you shouldn't keep bees where you've got close neighbours without this. If you have a shed, this should do the trick if you site the hive carefully. Then you need good-tempered bees, obviously; this is a matter of being careful about your queens, and replacing them if they ever get bad-tempered, which can occasionally happen with a new queen. If you've got a flourishing Association it shouldn't be hard to get a queen if you need one, and if you only have the one hive you are a bit vulnerable to it going queenless.
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Hello enjoy your bees and look after them well and enjoy the honey harvest leave plenty of food for the bees and take enough for yourself withought bees we would have no plants, what a thought..Maureen..
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Jesse, we have indeed a law in the village saying: It is prohibited to keep bees within a distance of 30 meter of houses or roads, unless at the distance of 6 meters from the hives is a fence, at least 2meters high or higher. The 30 meters is also for the owners of he hives own home (PPV art. 2.4.24) :o
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Where are you?
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Jesse,
It is situated next to 10ft high Hedge.
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That sounds like a good place to put it. Mine face into a five foot hedge, at least it's five foot when it's newly trimmed, but there's a drop on the far side so it's effectively more like six feet.
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Robert, I am in the Netherlands. We have quite a few regulations when you want to keep bees, Not only the distance you have to stay away from houses, people and roads but also for transporting th bees. My allotment f. i. is not such a good spot for my hives because I am to close to the bulbfields, of course that is a better spot for them so I have them at the end of a wood, the front at he waterside, a lot of trees on the other tree sides and at the moment they are very busy flying in with all colours , spec. the orange coloured pollen.Lost quite a few during wintertime. When inspecting today found one with only drone brood, rest was fine.
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It does vary a lot from coutry to country; here we have no regulations at all except for a few local ones. In general, the only rule is that nobody should be able to go to court and convince a judge that your bees are a nuisance. I lost one out of three over the winter; the other two are looking healthy. One has a little drone brood, but that one is very strong.
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Thanks to all for all this information.
I am really interested in keeping some bees on my plot but the rules day that it is not allowed. Having read this I think I might try some anyway.
Are there any other "illegal" beekeepers out there?
Flossie
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Yes, me. There are loads of allotment sites round the country where bees live quite happily without upsetting anyone. One Beekeepers' Association, I've a feeling it's in Kent, has its Association apiary (which means lots of bees, not necessarily nice or well cared for) on an allotment, and I believe there's an allotment site in London with it's own Beekeepers' Association. Keep good-tempered bees, don't let them swarm, and keep them out of sight.
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Hai Jesse, How is our beekeeping course going???
Hope you still enjoying it ;)
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Just found this thread - I too am considering re-starting in beekeeping (I kept them in Ireland, many years ago)
The current prices frighten me - so the link to the £36 hive is VERY interersting. I read in my local beekeeping newsletter that Scandinavian high-density polystyrene hives are superior to wooden ones, particularly for cold areas. Does anyone have any experience? Will they stay up in a high wind?
Not totally convinced yet - it may well depend upon cost - but I will follow this thread with interest.
JeremyB
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People in cold climates who use them have very positive things to say, but if you're in Cumbria I doubt whether you'd need one; the problem in UK winters isn't cold, it's damp. Bees can take any degree of cold provided they're dry and have plenty of food stores. But a long, damp winter can cause its own difficulties. Insulated hives were tried in Britain in the first quearter of the last century, and soon dropped out of use, so I wouldn't bother. Contact the local Beekeepers' Association (S C Barnes, 01900 824872); they're the best people for local advice.
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Hai Jeremy, I know people in Canada are using those polystyrene beehives and it can be very cold there, but there are a few important negative points:
it wil give mice problems ::)
and if you have a lot of propolis it will damage the boxes when seperating them.
I don't think I would bother nor in UK nor in the Netherlands to change my wooden ones for polysterene ones. ;D
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Robert - could you check that link you gave please, (the one to the £36 hives) My mails keep bouncing!
JeremyB
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Try phoning them. As far as I know they don't have a website, just an email addy; they don't sound particularly web literate so all sorts of things could have gone wrong.
The propolis point is a good one; UK bees can be quite profligate with it. I've occasionally heard things about animl damage to the polystyrene hives, and it makes sense that they would be rather more vulnerable than wood. Not that it takes a rat or a woodpecker long to go through wood if it makes up its mind to do so. Mice are easy to keep out; I have my own entrance design which keeps them at bay and minimises wasp problems as well.
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Hai Jesse, How is our beekeeping course going???
Hope you still enjoying it ;)
Hi Lady Cosmos, yes we finished the beekeeping course and have joined our local club as non-beekeeping members. Me and 7yr old son have also been to one of the aipairy (sp?) meetings where we were able to open the hive and lift out the frames to inspect the hive. It's been very interesting. We hope to soon have a hive which will be kept at the clubs apiary which is great because at each meeting (which is every 10 days) we'll have experts on hand to help us whilst we're still learning.
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Great Jesse, Nice that your son is joining as well. Do you mean with meetings practical lessons? And do you get a hive from the club?
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The meetings are every 10 days, during the meeting they open the hives and inspect the bees, we all have a turn opening them and talk about what's going on. I haven't been to a saturday meeting yet but I believe there's cake etc afterwards (yummy!). It's good because as a beginner they have veils for us to use and all the equipment (even had a bee suit for my son) so little initial expense. Once we know for sure that beekeeping is something we want to do then we'll buy our own veils etc. The hive is an offer with the bee club for a year whilst we're learning so yes it's provided by the club at a cost to us but much less than the cost of buying new and we have the reassurance of help there all the time whilst we're learning. After the year we'll probably buy a hive for the garden, allotment or who knows where, need to decide on the best site first. :)
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It is amazing he, when you open the hive.....
It is the most busy time now, last Tuesday I did everything to prevent swarming.....
and now it is waiting for 13 days ;D ;D ;D
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I have a garden of about 1/2 acre, and the section that I am thinking of keeping bees in is bounded on two sides by an 8-10 ft lleylandii hedge. Can I face the hives towards this hedge, rather than face into the orchard (the house is about 45 meters away, the other side of the fruit trees), if so, what distance must I leave between the hives & the hedge?
There are no houses the other side of the hedge, only pasture.
The only other house is about 80 meters from where I am thinking of putting the hives.
JeremyB
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Jeremy that sounds like an ideal spot for the bees, wish our garden was that big with no neighbours nearby, that's what worries me about keeping them in our garden is if neighbours complain. I'm not sure about the height of the hedge, I'm sure Robert or someone else will know, but I've been told to point the hive towards a hedge to force the bees up high when flying off from the hive, not sure if there's a limit on how high the hedge should be though. It's a good idea to join your local beekeeping club because they'll give you a lot of help with buying hives and colonies etc. and you also get the insurance which I think is very worthwhile. :)
Lady Cosmos, hope you've managed to prevent the swarming :)
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It sounds perfect; once they're up above head level they won't bother anyone. Mine are ten feet back from a hedge, but you can go closer if you need to.
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And Jeremy, keep in mind that , if possible, the opening of the hives should point to the east. Important so that the bees can start as early as possible to get the pollen. And that they can get the nectar before ten o clock in the morning.
You will get much more if the hive opens to the east. ;D
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Ah - the hedge is due west! The fruit trees & the bulk of my garden are east, so it looks as if they will have to face inwards - mind you, the wildflower area & fruit trees will be more easily available.
Robert - you have caused chaos! I spoke to the apiculture centre today, and learned that for the last couple of weeks, their email has gone berserk, and their postbox is filling up faster than they can empty it! - They had no idea why, but I suspect it is the popularity of this site, and response to this thread!
I did learn that they are not one business, but a co-operative, with many bee-related ventures operating together. Apparently most of the individual catalogues are in preparation at the moment, and will not be available for a while.
JeremyB
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Sounds good for business. Anything to encourage a cheaper alternative to Thorne's! Don't worry if the hedge does face west; my hives are in the shade until late morning, and it doesn't worry the bees one bit. I think the thing about facing the rising sun is a bit of an old wives' tale - there are lots of them in beekeeping. Safety should come first, and facing the hedge will stop them flying into anyone.
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the question about the hive facing east was raised at our course, the consensus was that it didn't make much difference so if it's not possible to face the hive east no need to fret. :)
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Thats why I wrote Yesterday: IF POSSIBLE....
If you have hives at different spots you see big differents in the amount of nectar.
Bees from hives east start much earlier to collect, no doubt. I see that every year.
But it is NO MUST.
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How much of that is the direction they face, and how much varying amounts of available forage?
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Example: having 6 hectares , that is 6 X 10.000 M2, of hyacints and on both sides of that field are hives. 12hivesX 10 windows ", that are the big ones, with 2X food, 2X empty, 2 X full brood and 4Xinsides, The east opening hives, the bees start early in the morning because the bees see the light earlier, collect many more times than the west opening hives.
So if you not ONLY go for the honey, but for the bees as well, it makes not much difference.
One other part of our land has trees , about 4000 M2, and there are at the moment 16 hives, 16X 10", 3X 7"and some 3". Those hives are at 3 different spots.
More or less the same inside qua food, empty etc. Inspecting the inside shows a big difference. So that means many more bees, many more new beehives to make by our own swarming technique, and at the end much more honey :P
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How are they doing this year? mine have been expanding like mad the last few weeks; the stronger is now in the forst super, and beginning to store honey up there. I have native bees on single broodboxes.
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Hi Robert (or anyone else who can answer this) I have not received anything from the apicentre - although I was warned that things might be delayed - but I want to get prepared before the year drags on too long.
Are you aware of any other suppliers of economically priced hives that I could look at?
JeremyB
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Jeremy the only other place I know of is Thorne but I'm not sure how competitively priced they are. Have you joined your beekeeping club? Someone mentioned at another forum that their local club get a discount from Thorne when buying equipment.
I forgot to update here about our meeting on Sunday at the apiary. The hive we looked at was preparing to swarm, there were a LOT of queen cells being built in the hive, must have been around 20 or so. The hive has two brood boxes on because they're wanting to split it, we broke off the queen cells and added another super. Here's a picture of me, it's taken with a camera phone so doesn't pick up the bluebells and primroses well but it's so pretty there under the trees with a carpet of flowers.
(http://www.news2share.co.uk/photos/2006/bees140506.jpg)
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When I looked at Thorne's site, I almost abandoned the idea of beekeeping altogether. Their prices are frightening!
I have found most of the equipment elsewhere at a fraction of their prices (look up "beekeeping" on ebay, & visit some of the trader's shops), but not yet come up with reasonable hives. Robert's link to the apiculture centre looks very promising, but I spoke to a very harrased proprietor who, since Robert posted the link, has been swept off his feet! Even if their £36 hive is a reality, I suspect that it could be next year before they can fulfil new orders - But if they can do it, surely there must be others!
JeremyB
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I know some of the members at our club go to beekeeping equipment auctions, perhaps there's something like that near you? You could register at the beekeeping association forum and ask there http://www.bbka.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php (http://www.bbka.org.uk/phpBB2/index.php) or I found this place, more expensive but not as much as Thorne http://www.beekeeping.co.uk/products.htm (http://www.beekeeping.co.uk/products.htm) go to the bottom of the page and click on catalogue.
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Two very useful links - many thanks
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Thornes' normal prices are astronomical, I don't know how they've got the nerve. The best time to get woodenware is actually New Yeaer, when they sell off all their seconds. Try the local beekeepers' Association, in case there's anything going second hand, or one of the auctions that's been mentioned.
The one time I tried to control swarming by breaking off cells was a omplete disaster. If you've got spare gear, demareeing or Taranoving, or a shook swarm are all better methods. Every possible method can be found here: http://website.lineone.net/~dave.cushman/
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I found one of my hives preparing to swarm today, with five queen cells and the broodbox packed out with wall to wall brood. So I demareed it, ie separated the queen from the brood. She's at the bottom in the original broodbox, with a little brood to hold bees down there, and lots of empty comb which they'll clean out ready for her to lay up. All the resrt of the brood is now at the top in a separate broodbox, with the queen cells, and one end propped up on a oupl of bits of stick to give them a separate entrance the virgins can use at mating time. They'll hatch out, mate, and start a new broodnest up there. At the end of the season I'll separate them and get an extra hive out of it.