Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: aquilegia on September 15, 2005, 12:54:51
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What are the pros and cons of growing beans in fixed trenches as opposed to the usual rotation?
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Well, I intend to dig a trench and fill it with strawy manure & kitchen waste (which is what I did this year). My mother noticed runner beans growing up where they were last year - the roots resprouted.
I guess fixed trenches ok until the plants start to not be as healthy as they should (could) be. Would be handy not to have to rebuild the climbing frame for them.
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I read a novel approach to crop rotation the other day. Grow crops in one place until you get a problem, then move them to a new area! 8) Can't say I'm tempted to try it out, cos I am enjoying the sudoko-like thrill of figuring out rotations ::)
My mum had a permanent runner bean trench and scaffold for more than 20 years, and I never remember any shortages ;D I think she alternated sides (for the trench relative to the scaffold) to give the ground a rest, but that's all.
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well they say that they need not be moved to often
i also dug a trench for next yr for peas and beans and have first lined it with plastic (checked with level and length of woodthat stretches the whole length so reasonably flat) and then filled with somesoil and manure at about 4inchesfrom the bottom of the pit (which is about 8 to 12 inches deep) i stuck the fork through as flooding is not the desired effect but just to have hopefully a mini resevoir at the bottom as there a little thirsty in the summer and hopefully the roots will smell that waterandpromote a good heathy downward growth
well experiment awayyyyyyyyyyy
carl
speaking of which me seeds from T&M for me bolaotti came through this morning
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My mate has grown his runners in the same place for about 40 years, never has any problems and gives armfuls away every year.
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I am sure I have read somewhere that Bob Flowerdew actually lifted his runner bean plants and stored them like dahlias for the next year. :o
Has anyone ever tried this?
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I dug a gorgeous trench way back when, filled it with lovely 'stuff', backfilled it and had more runners than we could manage last year...this year......a handful! Blasted Vole family decided to move in and munch the plants at ground level as they grew! Runner beans will be finding a new home next year and flowers will benefit from the bean treanch!
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Wondered about rotation but th old timers never have a problem and they always seem to be in the same place on all the plots. always the same way round which is he obvious sun position though., still... now we are down to two plots we can rotate between the two.
Talking about rotation? What about the 3 yrs grow 1 yr rest?
Anyone leave bits to recover every 4 yrs?
Guess we are all organic and putting natural stuff back in from compo and enhancing it with nitro enhanced grass eaten by the horses that give us the wonderful stuff!???
wondering if farmers rest fields now and then cos they cant be so thorough and organic as us part timers?
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Fixed trench is best, runners have few or no serious soil-borne pests.
Some of the old boys at our site haven't moved them for decades and they grow the best runners I've seen
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I have moved to trench this year, simply because I got fed up of the beans being too heavy for bamboo supports and falling over; last year several plants snapped in the wind as they fell, so I decided enough was enough.
Filled a trench with a good 4-5" of manure and backfilled, then planted the beans round the edges of the manured bit. Hammered posts (3" cross section, 7' tall) in at either end, and suspended a thick wire between them. Tied the bamboos to that wire. Was up there last night in quite breezy conditions and no problems.
I have had fantastic beans, despite not watering them as much as I've done in previous years.
The theory is that I can take the wire down over winter and then get at the plot for digging the new trench etc. I suspect leaving it at nose level might surprise any oiks who try and walk across the plot!
moonbells
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The post business was what I found great. And I lean them at a good angle - single row of beans - so that the beans hang straight.
Because they take up so much room & light, it makes sense to find the least obtrusive plot, consistent with the plants' well-being, & stick to it. They are useful both as a screen & as decoration.
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Hi all,
I put up a "permanent" bean fence with scaffold poles etc last year. This was in a sheltered space near my sheds and water barrels as I think the stilll air is liked by bees. I had a good harvest and a glut of beans but this year slugs also enjoyed that spot and ate my baby plants over and over again. I`m planning to build a new fence for beans somewhere more open and move my composting area into slug city.
Col
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I am a dedicated rotator. It gives me a four year rotation cycle and nitrogonises next years brassica beds. I do not have enough room (1/2 lottie) to give a bed a rest every four/five years.
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I've had a productive morning digging a trench, it's the first time I have tried this and I'm hoping it will be a success. Should I line it with plastic.
I've managed to scrounge 3 large timber posts that will go in soon to complete my bean trench. Got 60 metres of plastic coated wire for £1.50 from a car boot so will have enough for my beans and my new raspberry area. Oh I love bargains. ;D
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I've also decided to try a permanent bed this year after losing all my beans late August (I think it was) during some storms. Just about everyone on our allotments does have permanent beds - my only worry is letting the bindweed also find a permanent home!
Tim, you meantion angled posts - is that a similar idea to having the suspended frame with beans hanging underneath. If so can you tell me....
1. What angle do you have them at
2. How far apart do you put the supporting posts
3. Do you need build the end like an A frame to stop the top settling down?
Thanks in advance of the response.
Iain
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I am a firm believer in the rotation system. I saw an interesting programme some time ago, when I used to watch television, about a south american farm that was struggling due to the cost of fertilisers. They introduce beans into a rotation, and within a few years the farm was running with no fertilisers at all, and making a profit. I cannot remember any other details.
Derekthefox :D
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Flowerlady, I've not lifted and stored like Bob has, but this season, I'm experimenting with just removing top growth and mulching heavily. Am a curious, kinda person!! Will let you know...
Lottie ;D
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I take back a bit of what I said - later in the season, we had many longer & straighter beans on the other ( north) side this year!!
But it can't be worse than the usual 2 rows leaning together - that's about the angle we use. Otherwise you couldn't walk by.
My supports are 2 x 8' galvanised water pipes - about 35mm.
Or we did use 4 metal 'canes' as 'A' supports for a 24' row.
But commercially, surely, they still use the old method? Certainly around Evesham I've seen them. And the market beans are as good as you could wish. But what a price!!
I've done the 'dahlia' thing in the past, but last year I let them dry out. Failure.
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Still using the rotation system but next year I will be using smaller arrangements of canes and will be keeping my beans seperate so will have seperate smaller cane arrangements - i.e. two lots of reds, one for fresh, one for drying, two lots of whites, same reasons, two lots of bortlottis, two lots of climbing frenchies, etc. My big structure collapsed under the weight of the beans and plants this year.
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Thanks Tim.
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I rotate every year.
For one small patch of french beans, I have 2 old rose arches, cheap metal ones, which push about a foot into the ground to secure them. I site them about 6' apart, then run canes horizontally between them, which the beans latch onto as they grow.
I find this easier than putting up wigwams, and just wish I could find some more on a skip somewhere...
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One advantage of not rotating that hasn't been mentioned is that the inoculum levels of the Rhizobacter from year to year cropping on the same area are always higher than if the crop is moved every year. Infection will occur sooner as a result.. This means that the plants are manufacturing N in larger quantities earlier than having to wait for the bacterium levels to build up again.
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I understand these Rhizobacteria are species specific, but are they variety specific ?
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I have never seen that sort of information. With the tiny genetic differences between cvs. I would wonder if the bacteria need to be that specifically adapted. Alternatively, given this tiny difference, it may be that the bacteria are able to select among themselves (Darwinially [?] speaking) that quickly that it doesn't make much of a difference. Disease bacteria certainly seem to adapt to new cvs. quickly enough, if that is the case!
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Finished my trench today, thickly lined it with newspaper and put the first lot of kitchen waste on. Oh it is satisfying to get a job completed. ;D As long as the other guys don't go and check how straight it is! They laugh at OH's potato rows and think he's been on the booze when he digs ;D I don't want that reputation (even if there may be a bit of truth in it ;D)
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I am a big believer in rotation. Would not like to take the risk of spoiling my soil. :-[
read this: http://mtvernon.wsu.edu/plant_pathology/veg_rotations.htm
That is a veeerrry long time rotation :D
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but as merry tiller wrote:
Some of the old boys at our site haven't moved them for decades and they grow the best runners I've seen
beats all science.
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Absolutely ;D
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Like redclanger I will rotate the position of my beans.
There are few plants that work so much in our favour - spreading their nitrogenous goodies where ever they go!!
Seems a waste not to spread their good work, and I'm sure it saves us a few £'s on the on the fertilisers!!
Undercarriageplan! Thought I would lift a few of my bean roots to store them as recommended and see what happens.
I would suspect that one can steal a march on the growing season. But I have no idea if they are then caught up by the new seasons plants. I shall have to wait and see!
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I have angle iron posts in bean trench with an angle iron stretcher across to support canes from both sides...
I grow runners in same place every year ...
A trench is dug soil put to one side ,shredded paper or screwed up news paper in bottom then a good layer of compost ,manure etc, then about six inch of soil on top .This is the soil put back from top of pile dug out which was last years new compost, manure, which beans grew in .So I think in a strange way the soil is getting changed in trench as i always have a couple of barrows to take away every year . cheers Jim...
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This gives some idea of my 'lean' - showing the 'A' supports.
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That help a lot in visualising it Tim. I have to say that is an impressively tidy veg garden as well!
Iain