Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Garden Manager on July 26, 2005, 15:21:46
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I have a problem, not with the plants priducing fruit but with the ripening of them. My plants both in the greenhouse and outdoors are producing loads of fruit (had to 'shore up' some of the trusses because of the weight), but they remain stubbornly green and not a sign of red anywhere.
I have even resorted to placing ripe fruit (a banana) in the greenhouse in the hope this will encourage the 'tommies' to 'turn'.
Has anyone had this problem and/or can offer any advice please?
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everyone seems very impatient with their tomatoes. should they be ripe already? i am very happy to wait another month if need be.......doing them for the first time i didnt expect to eat tomatoes until the second half of august, at the earliest
svea
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Patience my dear!
I have several green ones, but don't expect them to rippen just yet. It's not that warm and sunny (again) for one thing!
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Hmm, I was half expecting to be told 'patience'. Thing is some of the fruit has been 'ready' to ripen (or so i thought) for ages, even before the last hot spell.
I always thought that the greenhouse ones came a lot earlier than the outdoor ones, but at the moment the outdoor ones are fast catching the greenhouse ones up!
Perhaps i am being impatient. its just i have been eating homegrown salad with shop bought tomatoes for what seems like ages, longing to be able to eat my own. Shop ones are just not the same.
Thanks anyway.
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My outdoor ones are ripening good and fast, my greenhouse ones are a lot slower. I seem to remember last year being told, maybe my John Miller, that too much heat slows the ripening process down! If I can beat the blight, I think I will save my greenhouse next year for melons and grow all my toms on the allotment!
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Hi
I've got the first signs of some ripenig but I think it's a bit early for the main crop, just not enough sun yet, usually goes mad once it starts
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I got the same problem e.j,the ones outdoor are much quicker,than the one in the greenhouse.
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::) Snap Rudd and EJ same here but being a newbie I don't understand why? What is the point in buying grow bags for greenhouse toms if mother earth tends to them better?
The mind boggles ::)
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Most varieties of tomatoes have a gene that initiates ripening from the inside out ( cv. Buffalo, most notably, doesn't have it) so even though nothing appears to be happening the fruit is ripening.
At first, when they are swelling, tomatoes are a relatively dark green colour. Once they have reached full size and ripening is progressing there is a very visible change in the shade of green to a much lighter tone. Once this happens it is only a short period of time before the blossom end, which is where 'pinking' is first visible, will then change colour indicating the fruit is finishing ripening.
::) Snap Rudd and EJ same here but being a newbie I don't understand why? What is the point in buying grow bags for greenhouse toms if mother earth tends to them better?
The mind boggles ::)
The problem isn't mother earth Roy it's the average British summer! Gro-bags in themselves won't make a huge difference but if it allows indoor cultivation then they are worth it. Last summer being a case in point?
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An overheated green house will not actually delay the ripening of tomatoes but can certainly affect the colour, and during the last few weeks many small greenhouses have severely overheated.
The colouring of ripening tomatoes depends on the ratio of two chemicals, lycopene and carotene. Lycopene, which provides the red colouring, is not generally produced (in this country at least) in temperatures above 80 deg F. Fruit exposed to the sun may well exceed this temperature for most of the day; Carotene will still be produced and will result in a yellowish tinge but the Lycopene will only be produced when the temperature drops at night, and if this cycle continues for any length of time the fruit will never attain the full red colouring but will turn to an indeterminate orange and may be patchy. In heatwave conditions the colouring of outdoor tomatoes may well be better than that of greenhouse ones as a result.
The simplest and most effective way of cooling a greenhouse is, of course to pour water onto the path or spray into the air, either of which will also considerably help in the setting of the fruit.
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I was taught that:
Lycopene is a carotenoid.
Tomatoes take about 50 days from fertilisation of the flower to full ripening. Optimum ripening temperatures are 18 - 21 degrees C.
Ethylene is the causative agent of the ripening process.
Ethylene is produced naturally, but can be introduced artificially, or stimulated by stressing the plant.
Hope this helps.
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Ethylene by itself is not the causative agent of ripening. There are many other processes involved that are genetically controlled such as the conversion of starches to sugars and the production of lycopene and carotene by phytochrome genes. Ethylene is a by-product of ripening but can be also used to induce some ripening-like chemical changes in fruit. This is widely done over here for some fruits, notably tomatoes and bananas, that have to be shipped over large distances. It is also commonly used in Europe on late tomatoes to turn the fruit red just prior to the plants being removed (it kills the plant too). This facility is also used commercially to induce flowering in Bromeliads as the plant is induced into early senescence and flowers as a result. To ensure an extended shelf life and reduce transportation damage tomatoes and bananas are commonly picked before they are ripe (and still firm) and then gassed with ethylene after transportation to induce these changes. However, the resulting product is not 'ripe' as many of these other chemical changes have not taken place.
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John, but doesn't ethylene regulate some of the ripening processes? I was taught that auxin and other hormones involved in growth help to generate it in various plant tissues, which have receptors which then respond to ethylene in different ways, one of which is ripening. The ethylene also helps to degrade chlorophyll, hence its use for citrus fruits.
But I'm a rookie when it comes to botany - discuss!
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Clever stuff apart - most interesting - I could not plant my toms outside in the first week of April knowing that we get sharp frosts until at least mid May
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Cor! some interesting stuff there and no mistake. Thanks.
The heat thing does ring some bells. My greenhouse overheated regularly during this summers heatwaves, despite vents and damping down. Perhaps this has slowed things down.
Encouragingly some are geting paler, so some are at least on the way towards ripening.
How I wish i had paid more atention when we covered plant hormones in the RHS advanced course i did. I remember the bit about ethylene (and growth hormones - not much help here), hence why I put the banana in with the greenhouse tomato plants. I can't remember much else about flowering and fruiting unfortunately.
So 18 - 21 c if the optimum ripening range then? At that rate the greenhouse toms will 'turn' first. During this recent weather outside temps have been below 18 at times duing the day, but the greenhouse has been OK. So there is hope!
I am now concerned that the outside toms will be blighted before they ripen. This wet weather is perfect for blight to get going. I have sprayed with Bordeaux mixture as a preventative, but I fear the rains will wash it off before it can do any good. :(
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Bordeaux - just keep spraying after the rain.
"Before it can do good"? Remember it's only a barrier?
Temperatures? Until the hot spell, ours were often as low as 10C - then 85C+in the heat.
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Bordeaux - just keep spraying after the rain.
"Before it can do good"? Remember it's only a barrier?
Temperatures? Until the hot spell, ours were often as low as 10C - then 85C+in the heat.
Surely Tim if the Bordeaux acts as a barrier then that barrier is doing some 'good'. therefore if it gets washed off then it wont 'do any good' Yes?
Hmm when the rain stops I'll try again with a spray perhaps.
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This year so far my green house has been a bit of a disaster
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What Tim means is Bordeaux isn't a cure, if you have blight, treating with bordeaux isn't going to make the plant well again, it will still die. So, once the plants are dry again, you do have to spray again.
Why has your greenhouse been a disaster Vony??
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Yes, Richard!
Thanks, Emma - not what you might call an active do-gooder.
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I've tried plastic sheeting barrier tacked to poles and placed in front of my outdoor toms on the windward side, about 4 ft 6 ins high along the entire row, and it seemed to work: those toms didn't get blight until much much later than the others. I did curve it around at the sides too.
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That 'much lighter tone' that John talks about.
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Ooops! :-[ After all the worrying about it i completely forgot to check today!
>:( :( >:( :(
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No still stubbornly green today (getting lighter maybe but still very slow).
At this rate I will be looking for culinary ideas for green tomatoes, as thats all i'll have!
(sigh) lost track of the number of 'pep' talks they have had to encourage them to turn.
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Mine are all green still as well. They've got plenty of time though, and if they stay green I'll be making chutney.
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i have my first three or four toms almost bright red. more light skinned ones.
not long now, CD :)
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I'm in the all green boat too. :( In fact I've got many more flowers than toms so memo to self: sow earlier next year.
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Tim,
Just out of professional interest (I'm a digital picture retoucher) have you artificially enhanced the red tomatoes in your pic? ;)
Tony.
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Would I?
Noooo! But some of the folk on this board might like your help with theirs??
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I have now picked fresh roma and tigerella from the allotment and my HUGE marmandes are redening! Also, lots of yellow peacevine in the greenhouse and they are sugar sweet. This year I am glad to say, blight seems to have been curtailed on the plot, and the greenhouse toms are ripening before September like last year!
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I was wondering. I normaly leave my greenhouse door open during the day to keep it cool, regardless of the weather outside. Could this slow down ripening , or at least negate the advantage growing in a greenhouse under cover offers. Its just that at this rate both inside and outside toms are going to ripen all at once.
Could keeping the door closed a bit more help on cooler days?
Any veiws/thoughts on this?
Thanks
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It will becooler, but the amount of cooling will depend on the wind. Unless it's blowing a howling gale straight through the door, it'll still be warmer then outside.
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I saw on another website when I first started to try to find out why my toms were not ripenening (Still not), this suggestion about too much heat preventing ripening, & some American wrote to say that if that was the case, half the states in the US would not be able to grow tomatoes!
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Finally!! One of my tomatoes is ripening. I'm growing organic Gardener's Delight on my sunny ::) balcony in SE London and yesterday one tomato started to turn. It's been a long wait, but all worth while for one tiny tom. Just another 100 or so to go :)
M.
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;D Yes we too ;D have our first ever nearly red tomato :) I noticed one truss has snapped, it's still attached but I doubt if they will survive now. :(
We have 40 plants so hopefully we will get a small crop out of them. ;D
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You mean like this?
Take heart - they've all been picked except this last one! Yes, they are small ones.
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My Tomatoes:
'There aint no stoppin' them now!'
Excuse me, but that statement is perfectly true. Ripening like billy-o!
Isnt it strange how the fruits on a truss often weigh so much the truss cant take the strain and bends or snaps? I have had to 'shore up' a few of mine with string to stop them breaking off. That sais on one of my bush types, the weight of the fruit has actualy broken a main stem let alone a truss! I am expecting to have to pick these fruit green in case they dont ripen properly as a result.
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Maddy Me too - my very first ripe tomato of the year. Just the one but I was so pleased to see it. I notice a few more are on the turn too :)
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Save that pic for posterity!!
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Why do the yellows and oranges ripen so much earlier than the reds? Been picking 'other' colours for weeks and weeks now, but the reds have only been coming in abundance for the last couple.
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Dunno EJ. Have same prob with my courgettes - bucket loads of yellows and only a few greens so far.
But I do have my first red tomato and orange habanero chilli of the season as of today so I'm happy ;D ;D ;D
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You mean like this?
Take heart - they've all been picked except this last one! Yes, they are small ones.
;D Cheers Tim ;D Exactly like that :) Glad I left it attached now as there are a good few on the truss.
I do so love this Lottie growing, ;D my first year and everything is coming up roses ;D and do you remember us all moaning about May (was it? or March :-\) being a cold start and things lagging behind ;D Tee hee, I'm a very happy chappy ;D
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I'll do that Tim :)
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Also, lots of yellow peacevine in the greenhouse and they are sugar sweet.
Yellow? From the seeds I sent you? They are supposed to be red!
I saw on another website when I first started to try to find out why my toms were not ripenening (Still not), this suggestion about too much heat preventing ripening, & some American wrote to say that if that was the case, half the states in the US would not be able to grow tomatoes!
At any one time of year not all states can produce tomatoes. For us in the Northern states, no surprise here, summer is our production time. This site:
http://www.texasgardener.com/pastissues/janfeb02/tomatorganic.html mentions why the Southern states have problems during the summer in the "adapted varieties" section. Excessive heat is the factor down there.
John, but doesn't ethylene regulate some of the ripening processes? I was taught that auxin and other hormones involved in growth help to generate it in various plant tissues, which have receptors which then respond to ethylene in different ways, one of which is ripening. The ethylene also helps to degrade chlorophyll, hence its use for citrus fruits.
But I'm a rookie when it comes to botany - discuss!
Thank you for this jenny as your comments spurred me to some research. I was taught that ethylene was responsible for senescence and death. Judging by what I found the understanding of the function of ethylene has moved on considerably since then (30 years ago unfortunately) although, as I understand it, it's production, and that of the other hormones, is still governed by genetic responses to phenological stimuli as received by the plant during different stages of growth. I'm not sure if this was well understood back then. Alternatively. of course, I simply forgot!
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Nice to see you back John, I missed you.
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Atlast my money makers are starting to turn red, my gardeners delight have benn keeping me going a treat and hopefully some will survive the force 27 gale that is blowing out there.
Finally got the first pepper this year, those are going in earlier next year.
But the courgette has been had by mildew
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Boy you should've seen the tomatoes I picked last night. Filled a dessert bowl with a selection of Shirleys, Gardeners Delight and Gartenperle (a cherry tumbler type - really nice).
After all the worries that they wouldnt ripen in time, we are now picking faster than we can eat them! ::)
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As Svea says - 2nd week in August.
We've been picking ittybits - enough - since late June, but this is the first REAL PICK!!
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Has anyone had any ripe outdoor tomatoes yet? I spotted two red ones the other day.
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Fantastic tomatoes Tim, mine aren't nearly as impressive.
Robert_Benchley mine are growing outdoors but in containers on a patio, is this half way between a normal garden and a greenhouse?
I was also wondering if on really hot days I should water my patio? It does get incredibly hot, certainly too hot for my bare feet, will this also be too hot for my tubs? Any advice gratefully received.
M.
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I binned our outdoor ones, because they were going nowhere.
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my outdoor ones have been growing very well. probably since about the second week of august (thanks tim, i forgot i mentioned that ;)) first only a couple, now enough every day to fill both hands - made vodka tomatos last night to take to a party. night before had roasted cherry toms with garlic and sea salt stirred into spaghetti. my plums are a little slower/later, they are starting now. i am expecting a glut any day and will have to have a cooking passata session soon :)
PS: my tom plants are planted in soil, against a wall. so i guess they benefit at night from the warmth the wall will radiate. i have 10 plants in total - 5 GD and 5 San Marzano (plums) and this seems to be enough/about right for the two of us :)
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I've picked my first G Delight from the ones planted at home in my garden. My husband broke one with the mower - mowed right into it >:( >:(
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Must try the Vodka ones!
Mine, of course, are indoors.
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I tried those yellow toms yesterday for the first time, given to me by one of my lottie friends and they were delish, quite different from the norm and very tasty. :P ;D
What are yours Tim? as I must try those next year if they will grow without a greenhouse. 8)
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I ate my first outdoor tomato today, a few more are reddening, most are still obstinately green.
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I wouln't grow the yellow ones (Galina) again, Roy - I find them very bland.
Nectar, the bigger red cherry is as good as I have had & I shall always grow it again, but I don't know about outdoors. Vida Verde suggest Aurora as 'very early', & Simpsons mark Santa (bottom left) as 'early'. We always grow that, but it's definitely a 'plum'. Some folk might prefer the juicyness of a standard. Simpsons also note Matt's Wild Cherry as having blight resistance.
In your shoes, I would ring the supplier & check for your conditions.
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Thanks for that Tim, I wonder if they were a different variety then? These had a sweet distinctive taste but still tomatery that tickled my must have more taste buds. ;D
I'll ask her what variety they were next time we meet at the Lottie. 8)
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Very unlikely that it would have been Galina - it's a bit unusual.
And yes, yellow cherries can be great - & better for arthritis sufferers.
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PLEASE a little more about the vodka tomatoes ;D
I've got vodka and toms, how do I combine them?
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I quote -
Not a sauce but a great favourite in our house. Pack tomatoes into a clean steralised jar. Fill to brim with vodka. Seal put in a cupboard and forget for at least 3 months. The tomatoes make faboulous snacks for parties and use the tomato vodka for making bloody marys
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Thanks Tim, is it best to use cherry tomatoes?
I've just bought a £3 bottle of vodka back from hols. so wouldn't feel so bad using that. My favorite drink after home made wine is a decent bloody Mary.
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I'm just a bystander here, but I would go for cherries.
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Has anyone had any ripe outdoor tomatoes yet? I spotted two red ones the other day.
I am picking indoor AND out Robert!
Tim - I can match your first big 'pick'. We have been eating them, had two batches of soup plus chutney made out of them. And still there is a significant quantity on the kitchen windowsill waiting to be eaten!
And i probably have less plants than you. (oh I wish I had some photos to prove it!)
Not BOASTING or anything you understand ;D
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Am I right in assuming you only pick red tomatoes for the window sill or should we pick all the green ones as well? The latter doesn't really make sense somehow :-\
I'm green too don't forget. ::) :P ;D
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Am I right in assuming you only pick red tomatoes for the window sill or should we pick all the green ones as well? The latter doesn't really make sense somehow :-\
I'm green too don't forget. ::) :P ;D
Oh only those ripe or virtualy ripe get picked roy(that those that are red or whatever colour the packet says they should be when ripe ;)). The windowsill is where we keep them before they are used (never refridgerate homegrown tomatoes).
Only pick green ones at theend of the season when they wont ripen on the plant (or if the plant gets blight ::))
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And 'don't place it the sunshine or they'll go soft'!!
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Oh only those ripe or virtualy ripe get picked roy(that those that are red or whatever colour the packet says they should be when ripe ). The windowsill is where we keep them before they are used (never refridgerate homegrown tomatoes).
Only pick green ones at theend of the season when they wont ripen on the plant (or if the plant gets blight )
Why can't you refrigerate home grown toms? I have been eating them from the fridge and they tasted good. ???
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"How to Store Tomatoes - eHow.com
How to Store Tomatoes - If you've got a great, vine-ripened tomato, don't kill its
flavor by storing it in the refrigerator!"
etc!
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Thanks for that Tim, and the useful link ;)
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I think slightly warm toms always taste better even if they are supermarket ones. Same with strawberries (most sm strawbs taste of nothing if they are chilled, didn't have luxury of lotty strawbs as they got nicked)
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Success! After sowing the seeds at the end of March...
Two Gardeners' Delight tomatoes (in the greenhouse) are finally showing signs of a pale red flush.
Two whole trusses of Ailsa Craig (in border along a west wall) are starting to go from dark green to light green... so red can't be too far away.
One Gardeners' Delight tomato (in allotment) got eaten, straight off the plant, on Sunday. What a lovely sweet taste.
And thanks for the info on tomato/fridge storage.
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It was suggested by Monte Don on Gardeners World to remove the lower leaves of the Tomato plant to let the sunlight get to the tomatoes and ripen them.
My Ailsa Craig and Gardeners Delight are ripening beautifully as they have a lot of sun outdoors, and they taste great. The ones in the greenhouse are taking a little longer, I think there has been a little too much shade. However, at least I won't have all the tomatoes ripening at once.
It's sheer heaven to pick and then eat a sun ripened tomato. There is no comparison to those horrible shop bought red round things that they sell in the supermarkets, they are only grown for yield, travelling and keeping properties. Taste, they put at the bottom of the list.
Lily
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My kitchen windowsill is in shade tim, dont worry.
We never used to refridgerate but this was purely by accident not design. We never knew why you shouldnt put them in the fridge, until we bought some from a grower at a flower show back in early summer, who told us not to do it as it ruined the flavour.
Its interesting to see people learning these growing tips for the first time. My own growing technique is the result of at least 3 generations of tomato growing (domestic scale) in my family. Some has been lost and rediscovered over the years, and i have tried alternative methods, but at the end of the day you cant beat the tried and tested methods.
For example, who puts small flowerpots next to the plants to aid watering? I saw it recomended on TV by Alan Titchmarsh a few years ago, but before that never seen it recomended anywhere. AND YET this is something my grandfather always did, and can remember as a small child helping to water his tomatoes by uusing this same method! In my veiw this is by far the best way to water (and not overwater) tomato plants as you will always give them the same amount each day.
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Robert, all of these are were picked from outdoor plants. (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a364/Mrsava/tomato_mayhem.jpg)
My greenhouse toms aren't a patch on my allotment plants, so next year, the greenhouse is going to be purely for peppers,aubergines and melons!
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I'm starting to get a few ripe ones now. Only a couple a day at the moment, unfortunately. It'll soon get better.
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So why, Emma? But a nice assortment. What do you use each variety for?
Lily - surprised about the leaf thing. I always reckon that one removes them to ventilate: & that tomatoes should be shaded from the sun!!
Here are some ideas. http://gardening.about.com/od/vegetablepatch/tp/TomatoTips.htm
http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00031.asp
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;) Another useful link Tim (Taunton.com) Tar very much, now I see where I have been going wrong on a few points. ::)
I have a load of tom plants at my Daughters close by and her Mum in law (who is an old tom grower) pruned a few leaves and topped the plants whilst visiting, hopefully she has saved the day. ;D
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REAL BEEF!! Palla di Fuocco.
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Cor! Tim what a whopper!
Whilst the big beefsteak toms are impressive, I do prefer the smaller tomatoes for eating.
BTW talking of tomatoes, I have just got back from a visit to an event called 'Totally Tomato' held at West Dean gardens in West Sussex. Tasting, cooking, growing, you name it, plus other nice eats to try as well. Nice gardens too.
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I know what you mean - but every size & type - be it cherries, mini-plums, plums, standard, white, green, harlequin, beef - has a place - & different flavour - in the food world. I mean - how do you stuff a cherry?
West Dean? - stayed in HIS bedroom & used HIS bathroom whilst on a picture framing course 30 years ago. Great place.
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;D Mmm! look very tasty :) I have had nearly a dozen cherry toms off my first effort so far, many more to come, I hope, as they were absolutely delicious as was the cucumber and radishes. ;D
I see you have a “Combat” flight simulator, I have the 2002 Simulator that I think is very so real that I need a drink to fly some of those machines, good job it is only pretend. ;D
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West Dean? - stayed in HIS bedroom & used HIS bathroom whilst on a picture framing course 30 years ago. Great place.
If 'HE' is the future King Edward VII, and the toilet was made to measure, he must have had the biggest bum in all history.
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I fly the 2002 one too, Roy! The other is used mainly by the 8 & 10 year olds!!
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I use them for a whole host of things Tim. The cherries are like sweeties, left whole for salads, but also, they dry quickly and are devine when jared in oil. The 'normal' toms are used for salads, sandwiches, and the larger ones for stuffing. The plums are for cooking, but there is never enough, so 'normal' toms also go into the pot. I have made tomato ketchup with smoked praprika - devine, tomato relish, River Cottage chutney, and have pints and pints of tomato sauce cooked down and bagged up in the freezer just waiting for a chilli or a pasta dish! The beefsteaks are gorgeous, I have never really successfully grown them, but this year I have masses. They are great in sandwiches, stuffed, or sliced and cooked with a steak or in a burger or chops, or just sliced down the middle, sprinkled with a little salt and gobbled up!