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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: ina on December 05, 2003, 19:59:21

Title: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 05, 2003, 19:59:21

Is perpetual spinach the same as New Zealand spinach? I grew the NZ spinach this year but didn't like it at all. It seemed like wet, slimy velvet after it was cooked. On the packet of seeds it was called NZ spinach and on the same packet it also said perpetual spinach. If it's one and the same, give me chard anytime.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: rdak on December 05, 2003, 20:04:52

I believe that they are one and the same.
I imagine all spinach goes slimey if cooked too much- I always put in the pan for a few seconds.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 05, 2003, 20:20:38

Ah, I cooked it for about 10 minutes, wonder if that could be it? Thanks.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: tim on December 05, 2003, 21:12:06

- totally different! NZ is a poor substitute for summer spinach? - Tim

PS - later - some of us swear by chard (you've done it?) - much more reliable, substantial and productive - and I bring that up to 5lb in the pressure cooker and then cool as quickly as poss. Stalks and all. Freezes well. And, as I said elsewhere, great blended in a white sauce.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: gavin on December 06, 2003, 00:03:38

Hi doubledutch,

Bad news - imho, NZ spinach and chard cooked as a substitute for spinach are always a disappointment . . .

Good news? - but only for the cook who knew how s/he wanted the dish to taste!  For those eating the dish, a delicious new flavour, more robust, a bit chewier, and definitely more-ish!

Forget the "spinach subsititute" bit, and enjoy them for themsleves.

All best - Gavin

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 06, 2003, 00:05:13

Ehm Tim? Are you saying that perpetual spinach is NOT the same as NZ spinach?

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: MagpieDi on December 06, 2003, 02:07:57

Hi Ina
My brother lives in NZ.. and grows the NZ spinach as it is less prone to bolting in their climate......and I grow perpetual spinach ....which often goes under the name ...Swiss green chard ( I think )
.......so ...........I reckon Tim's spot on again!!  ;)  ;D

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Doris_Pinks on December 06, 2003, 02:21:06

Swiss chard, we love, spinach we do not! Well, actually my slugs prefer my spinach.so have given it up in favour of the chard! Much better taste and texture, and doesn't leave that dry feeling on your teeth.if you know what I mean! ;D We love it curried as "chard" aloo! DP

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: MagpieDi on December 06, 2003, 02:29:41

Yeh!...yummy.......Dottie.....and Bright Lights really are attractive looking plants, and very easy to germinate and grow on.............must be 'cos even I can grow 'em!!  ::)  ;D

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 06, 2003, 02:54:20

Oh no, this is all going wrong. Confusion all around.

I have always grown swiss chard and love it. Nothing to do with spinach.

We love just about any kind of 'greens' so I thought I'd give NZ spinach a try (of course it's not spinach at all, just another type of 'greens'). Didn't like it.

Then I read things about perpetual spinach (not a spinach either) and wonder if it's the same 'greens' as NZ spinach as it gives both names on the same packet.

So, the question is: are there different types of perpetual spinach?

Does anybody have other suggestions for other types of 'greens' (green leafy veggies) to grow?

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Doris_Pinks on December 06, 2003, 03:01:31

Ina, in my book it says Spinach (Spinacia oleracea) and New Zealand Spinach (Tetragonia tetragonioides) are different! Spinach is fast growing but will bolt in hot dry weather, NZ Spinach is more tolerant of hot dry weather, and requires less nitrogen, but does not like frost.........so I am confused too! think perpetual is a chard (Beta Vulgaris)  :)  DP

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: MagpieDi on December 06, 2003, 03:05:41

Oops ..sorry Ina.....better leave it for Tim to sort out!!!!  ;D

Second thoughts..looks like Dottie's got it sorted!!...think that's what I was trying to say Dottie...ta!!  ;D

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Doris_Pinks on December 06, 2003, 03:08:50

I'm with you Diane! Where's Tim when we need him???? ;D

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: MagpieDi on December 06, 2003, 03:21:38

Oh No!!!...he's not fallen overboard again!!

Frankly...I think the odd tipple has a lot to do with it!!  ;)   ;)  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: tim on December 06, 2003, 11:29:55

I  beg your pardon ?

What I'm trying to say is that 'spinach' is (for us) a pain to grow - comparatively unproductive, quick to seed and un-hardy.

For us, chard - of any sort, is just the opposite. And whereas it may not really substitute for spinach in things like stir-fries or salads, it's always there.

What I regard as 'perpetual' spinach, right or wrong, is 'spinach beet'. This is not the same as 'new zealand spinach'!

Let's get out of here!!- Tim

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hyacinth on December 06, 2003, 18:24:09

move over, Tim, your bolt-hole's getting a bit crowded...second thoughts, tho... ;)

My 'perpetual spinach' is 'spinach beet' and if that is good enough for Mr. Thomson, and good enough for Mr. Morgan, and good enough for Ower Tim, then...

it's good enough for me :D

I'm with Gavin, tho, that spinach is spinach and the other things are other things.. ???  Love spinach, but poor success...low crops & quick to bolt..tried 'Dominant' last year, but no great cop..  fortunately my local Asian grocer buys in great spinach but yes, it would be good to be able to grow it.

Ien, if you cooked your perpetual for ten minutes, no wonder it was slimy & horrid..I get my big wide-based lidded pasta pan, just cover the bottom of it with water to stop  burning, then bung in all the washed undrained leaves. Heat up high, lid on (but off, like, as you turn them) and they take...what? well, 3 minutes has got to be max. Drain really well and then the fun part begins..Heat some good quality olive oil, add lots of crushed home grown garlic & chillies & toss the leaves in it. Salt. And then squeeze lemon over & twirl it round your fork like spaghetti... 8)

PS..that may have sorted NZ spinach, perpetual spinach and spinach, but...what about swedes and turnips??  I think that the orange one is a swede and the white one is a turnip and, besides, they've got different shapes, but a friend calls them something different..

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hugh_Jones on December 06, 2003, 18:48:40

I`m afraid, Lishka, that you can`t differentiate between turnips and swedes simply on colour. In my comparative youth I used to grow a turnip called Orange Jelly, which had orange coloured flesh, and Golden Ball, a variation of Snowball, and both were rather better flavoured than the whites.

I think you will find that, essentially, the only difference between the two is that until recent times swedes were mainly grown agriculturally as cattle feed, and were therefore cultivated for size and quantity as a single crop, while turnips were mainly used domestically and tended to be bred for quality and flavour and for staggered cropping. These distinctions (except the staggered cropping)  have now largely disappeared and (to my mind) the flavour of the better swedes is better than that of turnips

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: tim on December 06, 2003, 22:10:46

- and what is nicer than a rough mash of swede, carrot and parsnip -  with LOTS of butter and pepper? - Tim

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hugh_Jones on December 06, 2003, 22:27:07

A fine mash of potato and swede with a taste of horseradish mixed in surrounded by several thick pork sausages swimming in rich gravy, and a pile of pickled red cabbage on top.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: gavin on December 07, 2003, 02:29:10

"- and what is nicer than a rough mash of swede, carrot and parsnip -  with LOTS of butter and pepper? - Tim"

A second helping :)

Or a third  :) :) :)

Improved with a good haggis, and associated liquid trimmings, but not necessary.

All best - Gavin

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 07, 2003, 10:09:21

Thank you Tim!
So, spinach beet is perpetual spinach and NZ spinach is something else (which I don't like).

Now, I would like the proper name for spinach beet so I can try to find seeds for that one (it is not swiss chard is it?).


Lish, about your recepy. That's one of the ways I like to fix my swiss chard but usually I do it without the 'sweating' first. Just washed, and tossed around in hot oil with garlic.

I'm going to google spinach beet now.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 07, 2003, 10:27:02

Aha!

Spinach beet = beta vulgaris = chard. Maybe some people also call this perpetual spinach.

NZ spinach = very long and complicated names, also called perpetual spinach.

So, when I said that I didn't like NZ spinach, some of you thought I was talking about swiss chard since both of them are sometimes called perpetual spinach.

From now on for me, spinach is spinach, chard is chard and NZ spinach is not spinach but family of the ice plant and I don't eat that either.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hyacinth on December 07, 2003, 11:28:35

'morning Ien ;D

The seeds I sent you were perpetual spinach aka spinach beet?  And you didn't like it, except on the compost heap :(  ;)

There again, if you were boiling it for ten minutes...

ugh!!!!

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: ina on December 07, 2003, 17:01:41

Sighhhhhhhhh, I give up.
Spinach beet is swiss chard!
I love swiss chard hahaha.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hyacinth on December 07, 2003, 18:18:33

Oh, Ien!!! You can't give up...I'm just starting to have fun, here.. ;D ;D ;D - Lish

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hyacinth on December 07, 2003, 18:24:23

Quote

- and what is nicer than a rough mash of swede, carrot and parsnip -  with LOTS of butter and pepper? - Tim

Far be it for me to say "nicer than...", Tim but equally nice would be a rough mash of turnip, carrot and parsnip???  :P

(and all this rough (or fine) mash, remember ladies and gents, can be easily fashioned into Parsnip Patties with Additions ;D) - De- Lish

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Palustris on December 07, 2003, 19:04:59

Just be glad you can eat Swiss Chard or Spinach beet. I cannot. It reacts with one of the medicines I have to take and becomes inedibly bitter, no matter what you do to it. And I used to like it as well with a sprinkling of nutmeg. (after lightly steaming until wilted that is.)

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: john_miller on December 08, 2003, 01:20:54

Putting my 10 cents worth in here. Turnips are Brassica rapa while swedes (known over here as rutabagas or, archaically, Swedish rutabagas) are Brassica napobrassica, i.e. bred from two different species that do not cross.
I would also like to mention that Vermont's only indigenous vegetable variety is a 'swede' called The Gilfeather turnip, named for the breeder of it, John Gilfeather. He was a bachelor farmer in the mid 1800's who selected this variety over many years on his farm about 20 miles from here. It is a white fleshed cv. that you can eat like a Kohl-rabi (if, like me, you so choose!). It has to be one of the ugliest vegetables still grown but it does come from a time when looks were not high on everyone's (or more accurately, every supermarkets) priority list.It is very mild flavoured and almost totally free of the oils that impart pungency to brassicas. T. & M. did carry it for a few years but no longer do but if anyone can find the seeds in the UK they are worth growing, in my opinion.

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Mrs Ava on December 08, 2003, 01:40:02

okaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy.... cool with the spinach situation.....now the  swedes and turnips ....  a swedes and swede and a turnips a turnip..... what are mangleworzles then?   ???

Title: Re: perpetual spinach or New Zealand spinach?
Post by: Hugh_Jones on December 08, 2003, 01:48:42

Mangleworzle (or mangold) is a form of beet, larger than the garden beet, yellow in colour, and derived from the sea beet beta maritima