Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: dannylewis on June 12, 2005, 20:16:38
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Hiya,
Did anyone watch Gardeners' World on Friday, well if you did, did you see the Hydroponics part?
I have just been on the website and for a small kit it costs £59.50 and i thought that was robbery, am i right? Because surely there is another way of testing it and i aslo thought that why cant you use a cylinder drainpipe with covers either end (to stop the water leaking) and drill holes in where your plants go, surely this would work?
What do you think? i am going to try it when i get some money to get it because that will be well cheaper, right?
Thanks Dannylewis
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Hi Danny
I do most of my gardening with hydroponics. I have cucumbers, tomatoes, potatoes, peppers, lettuce etc in at the moment and yes I have the kit from the hydroponicum.
I have the recirculating kit so the water is pumped around the system. It really is simple and so much easier as I dont have to mess about watering pots, I simply bang five gallon of nutrient solution in the tank every few days!
There is far less chance of anything drying out so that side isnt a problem. The wick system means that the plants are fed a continous supply of water and food, they take what they need so no dry or drowning roots.
This will be my third year with the recirculating system and I think it works out very reasonable if you re-use the perlite again. You dont have to buy any growbags or anything.
I also set all my seedlings off in hydroponics, however I make my own from two margarine tubs but you can buy them off the hydroponicum website. Its very simple to make your own though.
I grow my carrots and potatoes in boxes of perlite, sat on an old table so I dont have to worry about carrot fly.
All in all I find it a brill way to garden, and much simpler as im not continously worry about plants drying out!
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Tut tut where is the fun in that!
Can you see the folk down at the lottie paying for those water pumps.
Do you think I could make sumat out of tat.
Don't think Monty was too impressed either.
Seriously tho it looked quite interesting a tad scientific for the likes of some of us. But then call me a lottie lover!! :-\
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well, the cost of the kit is the least thing to worry about - the running costs for the electricity can be enormous since one of the main uses of hydroponics is the ability to grow produce all year round under lights (250 watts minimum but generally using lamps around 1000watts). It is interesting but not remotely organic and the potential for disaster is very high. Crops need to be really worthwhile since it is a large financial investment. MD and the Hydroponicum guy coyly refrained from mentioning the biggest use in the UK which is for growing your own cannabis.
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Won't have a bar of it. In my opinion the whole point of growing your own food is to take modern science out of it (BSE etc). I assume these nutrients are just a bag of chemicals. And the only thing I know to be widely grown hydroponically is cannabis.
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Hiya
glad to see you put some though into it, i thought it might be worth gettin a solar powdered pump, if you can, and use that and try it with my hose pipe technique.
dannylewis
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Well if we compare hydroponics and normal gardening like for like, we will see that there is no need for lighting or expensive equipment. It doesnt have to be done in a dimly lit cupboard, hydro gardeners can use the sun and a greenhouse like everyone else! :o
Unfortunately some people hear the word 'hydroponics' and think of drugs, fair enough but that is just a part of it, I know for a fact that people on here use artificial lighting for their seedlings, but that doesnt mean they are growing cannabis!
Its not an expensive scientific way of growing. I grow carrots in an old toy box full of perlite, I simply chuck in a bucket of nutrient solution every so often. My pump for circulating water cost a pound from a carboot sale.
People saying that financial costs are high seem to me to be people who have never tried hydroponic gardening and are just stating what they have heard in the past.
As for it being all chemicals, doesnt anyone on here use tomato liquids etc? The so called chemicals are the same as in here, but more balanced as the plants get all their nutrients from the solution as there is none in the medium that holds them. Some people make their own nutrient solution from miracle grow etc, now im sure thats not frowned upon by gardeners.
Like for like there is probably no difference in costs. The lightening argument is not an issue as any gardener could choose to light his greenhouse throughout the year.
Please dont see hydroponics as a Frankenstein hobby or even as a druggie hobby, believe it or not, cannabis can be grown in soil too!
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I agree with Shirl in that if you only use the same fertiliser (and you can get organic tomato fertliser - or make your own comfrey or nettle brews) then there isn't a lot of difference.
But if one of Shirl's main points is that it says woorying about watering, then you can set up a "free" water system using a large container for the water (old 5 litre or larger water container, standing in bit of gutter to hold the water, then use capillary matting under plants in pots or just another piece of matting as a wick to water the plant or pot - no need for a pot - just "simply bang five gallon of nutrient solution in the tank every few days" as Shirl herself said
Phil
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but that doesnt mean they are growing cannabis
- my ex-mate was
Its not an expensive scientific way of growing
- but its not natural - that's the point.
I grow carrots in an old toy box full of perlite
- I grow mine on soil.
As for it being all chemicals, doesnt anyone on here use tomato liquids etc?
- I don't.
miracle grow etc, now im sure thats not frowned upon by gardeners
- I do.
Frankenstein hobby
- Science gone mad.
and you can get organic tomato fertliser - or make your own comfrey or nettle brews
Nothing wrong with that Phil
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Hmmm Redclanger, I can see from your very short replies that we wont be changing your mind about hydroponics, I bet you said the same thing about mobile phones when they first came out.
Hydroponics works for me and I can see it being very useful for a person who struggles to work low down in the soil. Veggies can be grown in containers at waist height using perlite, making it easier for a disabled person to continue gardening if perhaps they were struggling with more conventional methods.
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No - but I am quite prepared to agree to differ. The reason I have an allotment is to do it as naturally as I possibly can. This year I am a newbie and am having to compromise but in future I want to be a vegan organic gardener which mean growing my own manures, composts and pest control measures (despite protestations on another board that homemade pesticides are illegal). This method is all about feeding the soil not the plant.
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Gosh now that is far beyond me! Im just getting to grips with learning how to manage the plants without worrying about the compost ;D
I'm a newbie but for me a lot of it is convenience, my daughter was very ill last year (she's in remission now) and I was spending approx eleven hours a day at the hospital, my plants would have wilted and died in the hot weather if it wasnt for the hydroponic set up. As it was, I just put my water in the tank before leaving home and the plants were fine.
I really struggle with onions though for some reason, mind you the ones I grow in soil were no better, they must be my 'bad' crop
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Shirl,
Onions wouldn't be the first crop that I thought of as likely to do well in a hydroponic system - I would have thought the medium would be too wet, they seem to like a dryish surface with access to lots of moisture below
Phil
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Thanks Phil
I have had no better luck with the onions I have growing in the soil either. And spring onions, forget it, they hardly bother germinating whether in soil or perlite, they must be my jinxed crop! I went earlier today and looked at the onions growing in the soil and they have a nice big green foliage, but the bulb is hardly bigger than when I planted it and im assuming by now it should be about full size.
Garlic is fine though, I have garlic growing in an old filing box full of perlite and I let the perlite get good and dry on top before its next watering, its doing well and the carrots in a box are coming on nicely. The carrot box was a complete success last year. I have it standing on an old table in the garden and because of the hight I dont have to bother about carrot fly, however, everytime a human pest walked by, they would pull up a tasty carrot so I still had none left for my dinner! ;D
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posted by shirl #6 on: June 15, 2005, 10:25:13 » cannabis can be grown in soil too!
it can, but its not as good as the hyroponics stuff !!!
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Shirl,
As I understand onions they grow leaves until midsummer and then the shortening day length triggers the bulking up of the bulbs from the leaves as they wither so all is not yet lost
Phil
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Shirl,
As I understand onions they grow leaves until midsummer and then the shortening day length triggers the bulking up of the bulbs from the leaves as they wither so all is not yet lost
Phil
Thats brilliant news, I started late with everything this year so I did wonder wether they would have time to grow into a useful crop, but with a good top growth on it I have renewed hope now! :-)
posted by shirl #6 on: June 15, 2005, 10:25:13 » cannabis can be grown in soil too!
it can, but its not as good as the hyroponics stuff !!!
I want photographical evidence of this claim please gunnerbee! ;D
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I don't think you'd see it on a pic. The concentration of cannabinoids increases with the light intensity, so the stuff grown hydroponically is far stronger than the anaemic product of our natural sunlight. That's why it's traditionally been imported from further south where the light's stronger.
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Ahhh but thats not hydroponics, thats just lighting, anyone can use that. The hydroponics part is the actual water and everything else as far as I know.
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All very interesting! I love the organic plot stuff but really interested in hydroponics. No soil born diseases etc but want to make a kit not buy it.
One site said pump puts water in and then it drains. Lets forget the natural available light but what about the water side of things?
Anyone got detailed diagrams?
Would like to try this at low cost etc.
Anyone near Gatwick that I can pop along and look at how they did it to get my head round the concept?
All up for natural feeds and green manures which we are trying on our plot this year...
Andy
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This may be the sort of info you are looking for:
http://homepages.gold.ac.uk/suzanne/hydroponics.html
alternatively, if you google on hydroponics, many of the equipment manufacturers have useful advice on their websites.
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Wow Jennym, this all looks too complicated and expensive to me and what could be grown in those little pots? Surely tomato and courgette roots would be too large for the small pots shown on the website! If growing onions for example, I can't see how it would be possible to get more than one onion root in each of the pots!
I think I will stick to traditional methods.
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I fancy having a go with the free mayonnaise tubs that Wardy said you can get from the bakers (or failing that Wickes's 99p buckets and cling film), cheapo pump, natural light (or I might splash out) and the muck water I use on the allotment for nutrients - who knows, could be a winner.
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Out of curiosity I once made a hydoponics set-up using two halves of a 9" plastic drain pipe, about 10 feet long with capillary matting in the base. I used an old air pump from an aquarium with a 3" funnel above it ( inverted) and connected above that to a piece of tubing. Anyway the bubbles lifted small amounts of water up the tube and into the top of the drainpipe. Crude, I know. I made up my own solution of nutrients from some book. I grew lettuce down the pipe. The growth rate was absolutely phenomenal and the lettuce actually grew to eatable size in 21 days. This was in spring, inside with extra light. The trouble , and this is why I have'nt tried it since was that they were very bitter and completely inedible. I think it was the combination of nutrients and light that made them really dark green and horrible . Mind you it was worth it just to see the rate of growth. I did learn something... I am absolutely certain that most gardeners just don't feed their plants enough to get optimum growth rates.
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in future I want to be a vegan organic gardener which mean growing my own manures,
Curious? growing own manures, is that instead of horse poo?
Is grown manure more "vegan"
I am trying green manure this year but also lots of poo
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If it does not involve an animal at any stage it is vegan organic:
http://www.veganorganic.net/
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Horses poo by default!!!
Bit cruel to make them hold it :-X
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'vegan-organic growers insist on green manures, composts made of plant-based materials, mulches made from plant-based materials'
hay goes in horse - recycled hay comes out horse. therefore poo is plant based.
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Vegans try not to use any animal by-product. It's the use of the animal 'middleman' which makes manure non-vegan...as opposed to compost (the subject of the quote) which is, to all intents and purpose, animal-free.
I'd guess that vegetarians would be ok with manure though. :)
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so eggs are a no go too then I guess :-\
Which leaves me starving to death! Got to admire people that can do it though
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yes i know tm....it was meant tongue in cheek
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yes i know tm....it was meant tongue in cheek
Doh! Sorry - noone likes a defensive vegan... :-\
so eggs are a no go too then I guess :-\
Which leaves me starving to death! Got to admire people that can do it though
I couldn't do it if it was difficult Andy...but I have to say having an allotment full of fruit & veg really helps... :)
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agree tm allotments are excellent things.
goes to show with all out little gardens of lawns that SO many paople are missing out on this gem of growing stuff.
Harder work than shopping(yuk) but more rewarding despite the hard work. ;)
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I grew my lettuce like this:
An old tupperware bread bin for the base (free because mother in law throwing it out)
Teeny mesh plant pots 8p each
hydroleca as a root holding medium (approx £1.29 big bag from wilko)
Bit of polystyrene to float the plant pots in (free)
Stood the bread bin like a bowl and filled with nutrient solution, cut holes out of the polystyrene and popped in the plant pots which were filled with the hydroleca (its the tiny brown balls that hold water) this little raft was floated on the nutrient solution with a lettuce seedling in each pot. It grew very quickly indeed and the lettuce was delicious. No need for water pumps etc. I know they tell you to use them to help pump the oxygen round, but the gap between the water and the main bulk of the roots gives the plant enough air and the longer roots dangle in the solution and drink what they need.
As I mentioned before, I spend a lot of time at the hospital so I dont have the luxury of nipping out to water stuff all the time so this works for me. I only needed to top it up about once every ten days
Take a look at this mini propagator setup http://www.thehydroponicum.com/acatalog/Propagator.html
That is how I grew all my seeds, except I used empty margarine tubs and it was all diy. My seeds grew like weeds and I didnt lose any.
Can you tell my enthusiasm for hydroponics! ;D