Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Mrs Ava on March 13, 2009, 18:06:24
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Now I am ignorant about weedkillers, don't use them, not even at work, so have never learnt a great deal about them. However, today I met with a new customer who has a MASSIVE area of nettles at the back of her very very long garden and although I gave her all the no chemical options, she wants me to go in with a chemical and blitz the lot - she doesn't care if all that is left is bare earth. So, any advice from any of you who have gone down this route before. I have googled and see Glyphosate seems to come up constantly - is that going to do the trick?
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It will knock them down, but not for long. It is systemic so as it hits the leaves it travels around the plant and kills it. But only the weeds it hits, any seeds that are dormant will grow later an as the ground is not affected as the stuff neutralises on contact with the soil.
If you spray then wait a few weeks so a lot more of the nettles are growing, wait a few weeks, give it another blast of exactly the same weedkiller. After that lot wilts, block out the light to the ground with mypex for a couple
months.
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Thanks Ace - just the man to answer my question. ;D
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As Ace says, glyphosate does work but will need repeated application. One way is to apply the Roundup, wait for them to blacken and die, and then dig them up. It's much easier when the plants are dead.
http://tinyurl.com/dcmgzy is a (relatively) cheap way to buy glyphosate in bulk.
Alternatively, if she doesn't mind the bare earth for a year, simply use sodium chlorate. You can get a bucket of the stuff from B&Q for a few quid. It'll kill everything, but the ground remains unusable for a season.
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I did wonder about sodium chlorate. Nope, she isn't bothered if there is nothing left and she can't use it for a year, to be honest, it is an large area of wasteland at the moment anyhow - incredibly rough ground, but she doesn't want the nettles because of her son and there is a gate at the back which leads from her garden to the bridal path which she like access to year round, especially in the summer, when of course it is smothered with nettles.
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Please , can't you do without chemicals >:(
There is another way --- dig the b...... s out ! :(
Any way, why don't you want to grow butterflies ???? ???
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Use a fork.
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Okay, I charge £15 an hour. The area of nettles is as big as my allotment. It would cost her a small fortune. She is a single mum. How do you suggest she pays me for the amount of time it would take. Hire a digger....cost? Weed supressing membrane...cost? Of course, if you would like to come and dig them for free for her and I, then you are more than welcome - she has asked family and friends and they all run a mile. Yes, I have suggested other alternatives, but she doesn't want a massive area of 6 foot tall nettles come summer with her 6 year old boy running around.
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Use a fork.
Sorry Im not available this evening ;) ;D ;D
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Sodium chlorate is another way but be careful it leaches out to nearby ground. Nothing will grow there for 3 years, better the roundup and then scatter some grass seed or barn sweepings, then treat it as a meadow, rough cut it now and again.
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My advice would be if you do go for the glyphosate option then don't buy roundup, you can get wilkos or similar own-brand glyphosate for at least half the price and you won't be giving your money to monsanto..
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Also, if you're doing it as part of your business by law you're supposed to have a NPTC pesticides license.
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use a bush cutter on a good petrol strimmer or a scythe to cut it back then burn it
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Quite frankly if the client can't afford to pay it ceases to be your problem. Most of my clients are mega rich but sometimes they turn funny colours when I tell them how much. Some say yes and some say no. I will not use weedkillers as I value my health rather highly. I suggest you buy the client the product, instruct them in its use, and leave them to get Parkinsons.
Anyway, the child is still a baby till it is able to fall into the nettles without crying and a boy should not be allowed long trousers till he can walk in silence through the entire patch.
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Emma, please be very carefull with that chemical. Do not put your health in danger. I am sure the woman can do the spraying herself or even ask the local council to help.
Think very carefully about such a large area to treat please Emma. ;D
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and Emma - I think your tone to flossy was rather sharp, if you asking for advice on a forum ........
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Marcus, please do not come on here criticising our Emma, she is a very respected member of this forum.
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Emma,I never use chemicals.I would suggest if a client come to me and could not afford the fee that she works with you for a few sessions.
I would strim the lot down,burn it then cover the lot in heavy cardboard,free from most shops.The client then could dig over in time,remove all Roots and then put in a lot of grass seed.
This would be a quick way of making the area safe for the child.Also very cheap.
If she wants it sprayed let somebody do it who is trained with chemicals and go on to the next customer.
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I've used sodium chlorate in the past to kill ground before laying chippings for a large sweeping pathway round some island beds and where the lady didn't want the cost of membrane (+ the cost of laying it etc.) 3yrs on it's still smart, needing now only an annual spray with glysophate from Wilkos + the occasional spot-weed (and no plants in the beds suffered because of the treatment ;D)
The benefit of glyphosate only, for me, is that, after strimming and clearing then applying, it guarantees you return visit income every 2 months, say? depending on the weather, to check & re-spray if necessary 8)
I use a spray container kept expecially for the s/c, even tho it's carefully flushed through and disposable protective gear's cheap to be had..
It needs a good watch on the weather forecast tho and I look to do stuff like this when we're guaranteed a run of good and calm wind-free weather.A job I had to do all this last year, simply, just didn't get done because we didn't have the right climactic conditions for it(+client availability+my availability)...the area was kept strimmed as much as possible & it's a job outstanding for this season.
A thought...any chance, should you go the glyphosate route, the lady would like a path made through to her gate? I'm thinking that, with a thick mulch of bark chipping perhaps?, it would keep a pathway nettle-free pretty well, while the newly growing nettles either side wait to be re-blasted.....more I think about it, more I like the idea 8) ;D
and PS...what a shame the lady doesn't want to house some ex-batt chooks. From what I read on the chook forum, they'd sort that lot out for her in no time :) ;D ;D ;D
All the best in whatever you decide to do,
Lish x
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They certainly would... chooks love nettle beds. I still remember we had a mint bed 5' high from where we put the droppings when we cleaned out the shed... ;D
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Proliance Quatro very similar to Roundup £5 a litre :-*
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Marcus, please do not come on here criticising our Emma, she is a very respected member of this forum.
I have read the posts and see that EJ is reluctant to use the chemicals and does not normally. There are good reasons here why she feels that she has to. But, just because she is a long standing and respected member of the forum, does not make her immune from criticism - just like it does not make me or you immune from criticism. That makes the forum unwelcoming to newcomers. However, on this occasion, the criticism is unjustified.
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Hi EJ. I wouldn't use Sodium Chlorate if there's kids or pets about it's very toxic. I would wait a week or 2 yet to make sure the nettles have started growing well for it to be really affective. Then spray em with glyphosphate.
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V. valid point from Growmore 8), sorry, forgot that warning.. :-[
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have read the posts and see that EJ is reluctant to use the chemicals and does not normally. There are good reasons here why she feels that she has to. But, just because she is a long standing and respected member of the forum, does not make her immune from criticism - just like it does not make me or you immune from criticism. That makes the forum unwelcoming to newcomers. However, on this occasion, the criticism is unjustified.
I do not want to detract from this thread too much as I am finding quite interesting.However I wish people would not say such and such is a well respected member as no one can speak on my behalf and who I respect and who I do not respect is up to me.
Please speak for yourself ,not make out we all feel the same about a particular person.Nothing intended towards you Emma ,just speaking in general.
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Whats all this to do with weedkillers? ::)
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Just responding to earlier posts. :)
Oh and another point,someone being a long standing member means nothing to me.
People can be a long standing pratt,just as they can be a long standing Angel :)
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makes me chuckle when someone just comes on here to ask a simple question, as i have b4 and they get moaned at, shouted at and wotever else. everyone is EQUAL on here but if you can't answer the question then why bother replying. ;)
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When information is asked for I do dislike answers which criticise and don't answer the question.
Ace I hope you can reassure me my patch of ground on which I put roundup last Sept. is O.K. to plant with potatoes next month.
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I am very much against using chemicals as we can do untold damage to our land .
I answered the question by suggesting an alternative way this could be dealt with by someone who apparently has not got much cash to play with.
:)
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Roundup and all other glyphosate containing herbicides are on the list of substances that the EU has voted to phase out because it is considered to be an endocrine disrupter. Other commonly used products also on the list are bifenthrin, mancozeb, thiacloprid, glufosinate and metaldehyde. The new law comes into force later this year.
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And think of the fresh eggs ... :) :) :)
Edit by asbean:
SORRY - I have no idea how this reply got onto the wrong thread - please ignore it ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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anyone spraying another persons land MUST have a PA1, and a PA6 certificate, the penalties for spraying without the relevant certificaTES are horrendous!!!
(even if you doing it for a mate)
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anyone spraying another persons land MUST have a PA1, and a PA6 certificate, the penalties for spraying without the relevant certificaTES are horrendous!!!
(even if you doing it for a mate)
Tony can i spray at mums?
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Thanks for the PM's chaps - your advice is always welcome and taken.
Rosebud, thank you.
I asked a simple question which was answered in the first few replies. I have taken onboard what a couple of you said about having the correct certificates/licences, and as I don't, because I don't spray, as I made clear, I will be speaking to the client and will provide her with the name and where she can get it from - probably B&Q or Wilko's, and let her do it herself. I will mention the chooks, but she is a full time working mum so I don't know if she would have the time necessary to care for them, she doesn't have the time to care for her garden, hence me.
Lish, I had already suggested a 'semi-permanent' path, especially as I can get my mitts on free chippings from a tree surgeon chum. I will definately push that idea, and as I am going to visit her garden regularly, I can keep the re-emerging nettles under control inbetween weedkiller blasts.
Marcusexeter - get over yourself. Rather sharp..... ;D I wasn't being 'rather sharp', I just get genuingly fed up with people leaping to the defence, not reading the posts through properly, being holier than thou. Yes, I am a long standing member, big deal, yes, I am open to criticism, but I didn't ask for a discussion, I asked for advice, which Ace, Melbourne 12, Simon 404, Betula, Hyacinth, Growmore, Ceres and Tonybloke gave me, for which I thank you.
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holly-er
does that make you a "prickly customer" EJ ;D
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it does saddad, very prickly at the moment. ;)
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;D ;D ;D
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Roundup and all other glyphosate containing herbicides are on the list of substances that the EU has voted to phase out because it is considered to be an endocrine disrupter. Other commonly used products also on the list are bifenthrin, mancozeb, thiacloprid, glufosinate and metaldehyde. The new law comes into force later this year.
I thought that any restriction only applied to so-called amenity spraying, and that glyphosate would remain approved for use on and around crops. It still seems to be listed in Annex 1 of Directive 91/414/EEC. All I can find is withdrawal from the simplified extension scheme, which comes into force in June. Do you have a link for the withdrawal of permission?
Edit: It looks as though sodium chlorate is on the way out though. I must stock up ;D
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Cograts Emma..you've come up with a good and workable solution for your new client 8)
You've also covered the topic I came back to mention - where to buy all the doings she'll need. I don't know about B&Q, but Wilko's do a really good reliable pressure sprayer - their own brand and half the price of Hozelock f'rinstance. And she can get everything else she needs there too...best to give her a list?
All the best,
Lishka
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Thanks Marcus, oh to be long standing and respected !?
Some get away with the odd remark and some don't !?
floss.
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When information is asked for I do dislike answers which criticise and don't answer the question.
Ace I hope you can reassure me my patch of ground on which I put roundup last Sept. is O.K. to plant with potatoes next month.
Should be OK, as I have stated, roundup neutralised as it touched soil and all that was in the weeds has now gone.
This is not just as read on the packet advice. Apart from being certified ;D, I am also certificated for the spraying of herbicides.
There are a lot of scaremongering stories about, weedkillers, I have been doing it now for over 25 years and no ill effects.
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anyone spraying another persons land MUST have a PA1, and a PA6 certificate, the penalties for spraying without the relevant certificaTES are horrendous!!!
(even if you doing it for a mate)
Tony can i spray at mums?
technically NO! (you will be a 'contractor')
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Nettles are easy to get out as they're shallow rooting.I use a mattock as it cuts underneath them easily and has the weight to chop through the thickest root.
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'' I have been doing it now for over 25 yrs and have no ill effects '' quote from Ace,
yesterday,
You had better change your Avarter then Ace, you look a bit '' ill effected ''
to me , ;D
floss xxx
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Survived all that - all I can offer about sany praying is to use a lever pump sprayer with a fan head which jets rather than mists. If that make sense?
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Thanks Ace. I always suspected you had hidden talents.
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Oh he has , love him, ;D ;D ;D
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I got my glyphosate from a farmers' collective shop / agricultural supplier. Quite a lot cheaper than Garden centres but you have to buy a large bottle.
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I'd rather not use chemicals, I thought that was the idea of allotment no chemicals maybe I am wrong
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I'd rather not use chemicals, I thought that was the idea of allotment no chemicals maybe I am wrong
The idea of allotments is to grow food. There's no mention of "chemicals", for or against.
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There are a lot of scaremongering stories about, weedkillers, I have been doing it now for over 25 years and no ill effects
I don't know about Roundup (did resort to it when I got my plot) but there have been plenty of other things which turned out to have horrible side effects, DDT etc. An ex work colleague nearly died from using something called Roseclear, which was a supposedly safe organophosphate. It paralysed his breathing and his heart stopped, and he only survived as they lived right near a hospital.
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I'd rather not use chemicals, I thought that was the idea of allotment no chemicals maybe I am wrong
The idea of allotments is to grow food. There's no mention of "chemicals", for or against.
That's what I ment to say growveg without cemicals
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There are a lot of scaremongering stories about, weedkillers, I have been doing it now for over 25 years and no ill effects
I don't know about Roundup (did resort to it when I got my plot) but there have been plenty of other things which turned out to have horrible side effects, DDT etc. An ex work colleague nearly died from using something called Roseclear, which was a supposedly safe organophosphate. It paralysed his breathing and his heart stopped, and he only survived as they lived right near a hospital.
How curious. The old Roseclear whose formulation was banned contained Pirimicarb, Triforine, and Bupirimate. None of them contain phosphorus, so they're certainly not organophosphates. The only hazard to health that was recorded was potential eye or skin damage from splashing undiluted liquid.
Rather worryingly, your colleague's experience with Roseclear was never reported, since there were no serious incidents recorded from amateur use.
Roseclear 2 and the current Roseclear 3 don't contain organophosphates either.
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Re Roseclear, perhaps I am mistaken about it being an organophosphate. It was probably the old Roseclear as it happened about 20 years ago. The guy did report it and at the time I worked there he was trying to sue the chemical company. Seem to remember the problem was that the hospital didnt have definitive proof that it was the chemical that had caused the problem, by the time he had made the link and told them, there werent any traces of it in his body.