Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: ACE on February 05, 2015, 06:41:02
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I have heard, but never tried some weird and wonderful ways of ensuring germination. I can't stand the things myself but SWMBO loves them and has given me a packet of seed to grow some for her. On my last lottie I used to just chuck them in the ground and take pot luck. But this new allotment is smaller so I don't want to waste space. Are there any tried and tested methods that have actually worked out there. I rather fancy the germination on a wet paper towel in the airing cupboard, then only planting out the seed that has started. Tedious I know but at least I will get full row at harvest time. Has anybody tried that way, what were the results?
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I have done it often, and they all germinate. Not sure about the airing cupboard, prefer a cool windowsill. I use a north facing one. They do not need heat but they like light for germination. I would suggest kitchen roll so you can tear bits off. Plant out with the paper on top. I sow on surface and cover container with cling film to stop them drying out. It does not take long, after about 10 days they are probably ready, plant outside at the first sign of a root. I find it is best if roots do not get more than a couple of mm. It is a bit like watching a kettle boil. Nothing happens so you get tired of looking and next moment the roots are too long.
I then use a pointed knife to carefully lift each seedling, the roots break very easily.
Otherwise I prefer surface sowing on a line of potting compost the cheaper the better, some old stuff from last year will do fine. Once the plants get going well then they can be earthed up. I start Feb then you get spaces in the rows you can do a later sowing between the plants.
There is also a method using toilet rolls inners. Or newspaper planters.
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PS You need fresh seed,
Actually the way to ensure good germination of parsnips is to scatter them as soon as they drop dried from the seed head at the beginning of Autumn. The you will get millions. Not sure why the entire place is not covered with parsnips. I think you get 110% germination!! This is not the best time for getting the best roots as they can go to seed without producing anything.
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I use pretty much the same method as Digeroo (on wet kitchen or loo roll inside a tupperware box) but put them in a heated propagator on a low temperature setting. Didn't know they like light for germination, but my propagator is on a windowledge anyway.They obviously wouldn't get any light in an airing cupboard.
After about 10 days I watch em like a hawk for the first signs of a root, then use fine tweezers to move them into sieved compost in small peat pots with their bases cut off. (loo roll inners work but always go mouldy on the outside from my experience) Its a delicate operation since those tiny roots are soooo fragile and once the root is damaged then its game over for that seedling. I put the lightest sieving of compost over them.
I read somewhere that the seedling sends out a long tap root so I keep an eye on the bottom of the pot and try to harden off then plant out outside before it shows.
Faffy, but ensures a complete row of healthy plants off to a flying start.
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Actually just done a germination test of last years parsnip seeds using the method above and got an surprisingly good number to germinate. The seeds have been kept in a tupperware box in the fridge since purchase about this time last year.
Since I only want about 30 roots and the pack contains about 500 seeds, it seemed such a waste to throw away most of the packet. Just wondering if the seeds that have just germinated would produce strong seedlings/plants (Gladiator F1) or am I wasting my time. :BangHead:
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Since I only want about 30 roots and the pack contains about 500 seeds, it seemed such a waste to throw away most of the packet. Just wondering if the seeds that have just germinated would produce strong seedlings/plants (Gladiator F1) or am I wasting my time. :BangHead:
I think that if they germinate readily (don't take too long, and a decent number germinate) then its fine to use them. I think they tend to germinate just-fine in Year 2 on damp Kitchen paper - but by comparison if you chuck the seed outside in cold, wet, clay then the germination may fall off sharply, which is perhaps where the "one year only" viability comes from.
I germinate on damp kitchen paper, in a sealed container (Tupperware or cling-film cover) so it doesn't dry out, and then transfer to tall (5" at least, 2" diameter is plenty) pots made from Newspaper, so that they can be planted "whole" without root disturbance. With that depth I am safe to plant out any time up until the moment that the first true leaf appears. Using something shorter, like a loo-roll, means they need to be planted sooner - e.g. as soon as the seed leaves appear, although then there is little/no time for hardening off! I start hardening off once the seed leaves appear and then plant after a week or 10 days, by which time true leaves may be appearing / about to appear.
People say they just sow Parsnips and they are fine - that's great!, no sense making the job harder / adding "Faff" if that works for you, but for me on heavy clay I cannot get on the soil anything like early enough to sow outside, and I tend to get lots of forking roots, whereas with this method I at least get the first 5", which was in the pot, of a perfect root, and the planting holes I make, with a bulb planter, are as deep as I can make them, partially back-filled with some old used (fine) compost, so that usually gives me 9" of perfect growing depth before the root has to fight for itself - and any deeper than that is likely to get bust off when I dig them out anyway - mine are definitely not for show!, they are for flavour :)
I make my pots by rolling a sheet of newspaper around a (skinny) aerosol can, some pictures on my blog:
https://kgarden.wordpress.com/tips/how-to-make-pots-from-newspaper/
Here's some Parsnip seedlings I prepared earlier :D
(https://kgarden.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/img_6143_newspaperpots.jpg)
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Yep, Like that newspaper method. I don't know if I am going to be too late this year. I have been out of the vegetable growing loop for a long time while I was concentrating on flowering plants. It's like being a newby again.
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Certainly not too late this year. Prime time as far as I am concerned. Aiming to go to plot next week when the weather is slightly warmer. They say the later one have less canker.
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Do you just drop them, newspaper and all, into the prepared hole?
I transplanted thinnings one year as I had such poor germination - clump here, clump there - and you've never seen anything like the shapes I got. It was like an octopus orgy!
Adrian
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I find all the indoor faffing just gives me forked and stunted roots... I never get them "out" quick enough.
I now sow them in a damp drill where I want them, and cover with a plank to stop the soil capping. Use some pellets to stop the slugs that hide under there and check frequently (daily) after two or three weeks...
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I tend to sow in threes direct into the ground and I only fail once in a while. They really don't like being transplanted and I can be a clumsy oaf so I just sow direct, three to a station every couple of inches and then thin if any more than one germinates. It is still way too early for sowing direct if you want to get decent germination - normally leave mine till March.
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Always sow Feb. Even the year before last when it was frozen most of March I had a good showing. Pheasant tends to throw the compost around so I never get straight rows. But luckily he is not a seed eater.
The plot holder next to me is fantastic at parsnips, as soon as he gets a row in then in go mine as well.
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Do you just drop them, newspaper and all, into the prepared hole?
Yes, but I tear off the ring of newspaper around the top - if it sticks out of the soil it dries out the newspaper underground, which I think limits root growth of the new plant. Probably not a problem for Parsnips (they are heading straight down!!) but I figure it is for other things so I do it for Parsnips too.
Used to have the same issue back when I used pots made from compressed peat that were intended to be "plant out whole" to avoid root disturbance - they dried out so much that the plants never grew at all!!
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Well, I have started them off in a mini propagator that came free with two apple turnovers. Hope it works as it will be a good excuse for more apple turnovers.
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Well, I have started them off in a mini propagator that came free with two apple turnovers. Hope it works as it will be a good excuse for more apple turnovers.
More details please!
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More details please!
Triangular flakey pastry with a crunchy sugar top and a nice apple filling. :toothy10:
I expect you realy need the description of the clear plastic, deep, folded over lid packaging that they came in.
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I tend to sow in threes direct into the ground and I only fail once in a while. They really don't like being transplanted and I can be a clumsy oaf so I just sow direct, three to a station every couple of inches and then thin if any more than one germinates. It is still way too early for sowing direct if you want to get decent germination - normally leave mine till March.
This is what I find works as well. One year I tried sowing radish inbetween as they come up 1st and marks the row :drunken_smilie:
this worked quite well till OH proudly announced that he had "weeded" the radish :BangHead:
marg
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I totally agree with tearing off the top rim of the newspaper, very important., but easy to do. Also important to watch the bottom of the paper cell to check for a root emerging - same as for sweet corn. They don't do well if they are rammed into a hole and the tip of the root breaks off.
Also agree with the energy of the self-sown seeds. One year parsnips spread like weeds, and my nearest neighbour did not like it. But like leeks, I do try to leave at least one plant to flower and set seed as they are so much more vigorous than bought seeds.
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More details please!
Triangular flakey pastry with a crunchy sugar top and a nice apple filling. :toothy10:
I expect you realy need the description of the clear plastic, deep, folded over lid packaging that they came in.
Ha Ha ! Not a sales promotion from Greggs then! I shouldn't read these posts when the brain is addled after a busy day. Dont forget the drainage.....
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Dont forget the drainage.....
Don't need it. This is only for the first stage with the damp kitchen roll until they germinate. They are not really deep enough for propagating other stuff.
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I sow direct as I do for carrots. When I have tried to transplant them roots get damaged. Maybe I left them too long.
I always sow in early autumn as seeds ripen on old plants, so seed is the freshest. In fact I usually just let them fall to the ground when ripe and let them germinate as they see fit. They will germinate on and off for most of the year especially after a good fall of rain. I pick/eat parsnips every day of the year.
Remembering I am in Oz, I just planted my next experimental crop 4 days ago.
I have had such a great success with carrots that I thought I would try the same with parsnips too.
My soil is pH 8.5, shale gravel and clay. Too hard to dig so I just plonked a little soil, compost and hay on top and planted into that. The results for carrots is that they are forked. On the other hand I have to use a crow bar to get parsnips out because somehow they go straight down weaving their way through the gravel and rocks. Soaking the ground also helps to get them out.
So about 6 years ago I got 20mm gravel and built a box 1500mm long by 80mm wide and 200mm deep. I added a few mm of sand on top to hold the seed. I fed it with worm wee every 10 days, added the odd amount of worm castings and animal manure over the year and would harvest at least 7Kg of carrots each year. They usually have a bend in the root when they hit the bottom.
Now I have just completed a 3000X1000X300mm wicking bed using all the old gravel plus some from another project and sand on top.
As I said carrots and parsnips planted 4 days ago. Being heatwave conditions (35C for last 3 days) I cover the sand with 2 or 3 layers of shade cloth to try to keep some moisture near the top. I have planted excess seed (my own harvest) anticipating to weed out many.
Not sure how 300mm deep will go for parsnips because I often find them 4-500mm long.
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In my experience, there are two things.
1. Fresh seed.
2. Warm ground. The seeds won't germinate below 8deg C, and are best at 12deg C. This happens around the end of April, beginning of May in Cambridgeshire.
In early May I scatter seed on raked ground, cover lightly with soil or sand, water and wait.
Rarely need to wait more than a fortnight. Very high germination rate.
The roots are no smaller than others locally.
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I sow mine in Feb and March. Far to dry in May onwards to develop good sized roots.
Certainly never seem to have needed 12 degrees for good germination. Maybe we get some warm sunny days which gets them excited.
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If this sounds arrogant I apologise now and explain later.
Have you ever looked at a parsnip seed (or any other flat seed from an umbellifer - Lovage etc.) and wondered how a "wild" one gets itself buried 5mm deep like the seed packets recommend?
The answer is 99.99% it doesn't - not without human help. It lands flat on a surface and blows away again until it finds a damp one or gets rained on. It then quite happily sends a root down and is even more happy if it doesn't have to lift any soil with its shoot.
I did NOT predict this - I'm not smart enough - I had to have a friend tell me that he scattered some seed in desperation after many drills failed and he couldn't be bothered even hoeing them in. He got massive germination - and that's when I really looked at the seed.
Round seeds like cabbage family roll into cracks, seeds on a parachute drop into holes, but flat-winged seeds just lie on the surface.
I know that seed drills do work if you aren't on 100% clay, but my theory is that in as little as a year parsnip seeds lose the oomph to lift a shoot and get soil out of the way. 3 year-old parsnip seeds in a drill will give you virtually no germination, but scattered onto damp soil and left alone they behave like more ordinary seeds of the same age and come up 50% or more.
I've been doing this for 3 years now and I'm still amazed how much difference it makes.
I'm not amazed that the seed suppliers haven't told us - why would they? Fresh seed is best - no question - but old seed is almost as good and costs nothing apart from a thicker sowing and less work (and a slightly wobbly row).
Cheers.
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If this sounds arrogant I apologise now and explain later.
Not at all! Interesting points worth considering..
Do you earth them up at all - once they have became established?
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I didn't do anything to them apart from dig them out - but.
I have to admit I drew a hoe lightly down the bed to make a smoother area to spread them on, and this means that over time the rain may have moved soil from the higher edges over them.
I also gave them a few extra sprinkles of water in a dry spell a few days or so after sowing to compensate for their dry exposed position
I should also point out that allowing the weaker seed to sprout might explain why I had a much broader range of sizes - without the brutal evolutionary pinch-point provided by the drill method.
Cheers.
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I had to have a friend tell me that he scattered some seed in desperation after many drills failed and he couldn't be bothered even hoeing them in. He got massive germination - and that's when I really looked at the seed.
Sometimes the most obvious explanation is the best one...and it could 'stab' us into eye and we still fail to see it...
YES....what you said does make sense...and I'm going to put in practise as soon as the soil warm up a little. I have plenty of 'out of date' parsnip seeds that I was going to get rid of...
I have bad habbit of thinking things too far and making big effort to make conditions for germination 'perfect'...it is hard to 'let i t go' and learn to do things simple way...BUT.... I'm looking forward to this little experiment... :toothy10:..and should it all go well, lessons are to be learned and I have to start thinking differently 'how we should do things'.
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So after standing there for hours trying to spot the little white roots then with a magnifying glass, pair of tweezers and paper cones of compost I slowly plant them all on and I'm still only halfway through the process. Then I find that just chucking some old seed on the ground is the preferred method.
I don't even like them.
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Like Vinlander I also noticed that self sown ones come up in profusion and realised that surface sowing was the answer. I believe they need light for germination.
I have begun to earth up later it reduces the scab.