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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: deadbird on November 02, 2014, 19:16:13
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Having come to realization that broad beans are a staple ;and having very poor results or none with overwintering ;would like to know if other members have success by sowing now in pots first week of november and giving some shelter?
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Mine are already in the ground. They are tough things and most should make it through. You might need to net if birds are a problem where you are.
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My winters can get really cold and see off winter hardy veggies like greens and broad beans so I sow my broad beans in March in toilet roll tubes and then plant them out when big enough. They soon catch up with autumn sown plants and I get a good crop but maybe a couple of weeks later.
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I don't 'usually' sow any for overwintering at all...don't find overwintering that much benefit for early crops. Starting early in the season, and the plants will soon catch up those that are outside.
Saying that....last autumn I chucked all the dry husks away into borders...missed quite number of seeds and those happily germinated and many survived to following year, but we did had mild winter. It was little added bonus, but didn't convince me going back to purposely sown winter plants.
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They do not do well for me during the winter, normally start sowing Feb under bottles. The a few every month till June.
I am trying some new varieties. Luz de Otono, just sown them and Wizard. Wizard is a field bean so hopefully will brave the winter. Doing well until I take the bottles off something is eating the seeds and leaving the green stem behind. I suspect vole, rats or squirrels. May just be green manure.
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I sowed Aquadulce claudia on 9th Dec last year, they overwintered well, and I had a good crop of beans on healthy aphid free plants. I was certainly eating beans before anyone else on our site, all of whom planted early in the year. Having said that, we did have a very mild winter.
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Am heartened that some of replies reflected my own experiences,beans not surviving snow on exposed clay site in Surrey-- will aim to sow in February --thank you
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I sow broad bean Aquadulce in October and usually get a good early crop, I do not protect against the weather but have to watch for mice.
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This is the first time I've grown broad beans. I planted up half the space last week, and will do the rest in March so I can compare them.
I have Bunyard's Exhibition (from Wilko's sale) and some lovely smaller cold-tolerant landrace beans I got from a guy in France. I'll be interested to see how they do!
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Am heartened that some of replies reflected my own experiences,beans not surviving snow on exposed clay site in Surrey-- will aim to sow in February --thank you
My experience has been problems (on heavy clay) with wet, rather than cold, even using a robust variety like Aquadulce. I sow early in the new year, in pots, and transplant out. I have grown Aquadulce for years, but this year plan to try all the varieties favoured for flavour (which is increasingly becoming our primary reason for growing our own veg) to have a taste-test and thereafter stick with a preferred variety; I think sowing early in the new year, rather than Autumn, will give me more options in that regard.
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Wet soil is a problem for beans, rather than cold. I've tried various methods, and direct sowing around the beginning of March seems to work best so far. I haven't tried overwintering in a raised bed, but I anticipate reasonable results at least when I do.
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No problems with waterlogged soil here, but they still never survive the winter. I am on a natural raised bed of several feet of ice age gravel at home. What is waterlogged soil? I can dig here within hours of the rain stopping.
Could be damp air we get the mists from the lakes and river. If they do survive then they only have a couple of pods per plant. It could be a problem with the wind.
Even a couple of years ago when March was horrendous the Feb sown ones did well.
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Well we'll see what happens here. I'm on horrible clay, but my beans are in a raised bed full of compost and old manure with sandy soil in the bottom so drainage is fine.
I imagine once they've germinated the plants are pretty hardy.
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I have similar soil to Digeroo, but it floods from below rather than from above, so I think mine probably suffer from being windswept in winter. Certainly winter-sown ones don't get much further ahead than spring-sown ones, whether I flood or not.
My parents always grew broad beans on Essex's infamous clay without problems, so I suspect they can handle that, but add in wind and you've got problems.
Adrian
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I imagine once they've germinated the plants are pretty hardy.
I am sure they will do splendidly in my imagination, but reality can be very different. Germination is no problem, but after that all sorts of things go wrong. Something can eat the seed normally leaving the top. But even quite big plants suddenly die for no apparent reason. I have tried sowing early, late, several varieties - all the ones recommended for over wintering. All end up as a waste of space and money. Cloches no cloches and every other trick or wheeze I can think of.
Some of my Wizard are looking bonny, but the second batch have been decimated by the seed eating, not clear why they left the first batch be they are only 6 inches away. It will be interesting to see if they survive. I also have some at home which is less windy, but none the less a waste of space for overwintering. Over the years I have tried everything only once have I got a reasonably crop, and even then the February sown masterpiece green longpod, trump them big time only a week later in terms of flavour and total crop.
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The guy who gave me the cold-hardy landrace seeds is obviously getting great results in France with winter sowing, so I'm hopeful they'll work here as well.
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I will look forward to hearing how they get on. I did have one plant which did well last year, it came up as a weed amongst the Russian kale, I am going plant some amongst the brassicas again as an experiment.
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We used to get them by the hundredweight from a farm supplier and have a big share out. They were termed as field beans and we planted in October. Most of the time they were dug back in as a green manure, but they overwintered well and I would sometimes let a patch go full term for picking and eating. Autumn planting stopped the blackfly but the crop did not come any earlier.
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(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5601/15355519358_ec7ec5afb5_z.jpg)
Here are the landrace seeds I got - look at the wonderful diversity!
Field beans plus larger commercial varieties crossed with field beans.
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There's one called express & that gives an early crop. I think Chris Cross grew a while back & was happy with the results.
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We were very successful with planting our broad beans in early Spring and covering the ground with a net (to prevent mice eating them) until the seedlings had started pushing up. I cannot remember the variety we used but it was one with quite hairy pods. This was the first time we were successful but the ground had been manured the year before and covered for a year and we think this is the reason.
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As I have written before, I am a great believer in overwintering broad beans, also Wizard field beans. Only the very worst winters damage them, and because they have developed strong underground root systems, they pop up again in the early spring with new shoots.
At the moment mine are threatened by deer apparently dancing over my beds every morning and evening, so I have put up some flimsy bamboo and netting defences. Time will tell if they simply push these over, or run round an easier way.
Has anyone else successfully protected their crops against deer without spending a fortune?
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Start saving your hair. :tongue3:
Actually, Deer don't like the smell of humans, (can't think why. Much), and hair holds the smell very well.
Try your local hairdresser for the sweeping-ups, and if you can get some, tie handful's into tights or stocking material and hang them around your veggy-bed protective sticks. :glasses9:
You could also sprinkle some pee around while you are there. That also helps. :wave:
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I'm also a believer in early sowings - 2 in October and November always produce and one of them is usually nearly free of blackfly. But I use Aquadulce Claudia in London so they are more than hardy.
I also sow green-seeded "flavour kinds" in March. No point sowing rough old hardy kinds in the new year unless you get killer late frosts.
Horses for courses.
I have tried putting cloches over any September sowings or volunteers that came up too quick (because they look so "soft") but the ones the cloches missed actually fared better.
Cheers.
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I had beetles in my crop this year from spring sowing, not sure if winter grown would be better.
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Having tried both overwintering and sowing in modules in February the later modules option wins hands down where I am in Brum. If you get a mild winter or a cold one with not too much rain you get a reasonable crop (It's wet and cold that bumps them off!). Otherwise it's hopeless.
Even if you get them through winter it only gains you a week or two in cropping.
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If you get beans with beetle holes, a couple of days in the freezer - obviously while the beans are dry - will kill them without affecting viability. I find I do better planting them direct. Planting out from modules sets them back and makes them temporarily vulnerable to slugs or pigeons, while I don't get the slug problem with direct planting.
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I have fine netting over one bed of field beans, but some creature is getting in and digging out the seeds at the base of the plants, which are growing strongly where not damaged, but the bed will be patchy. Very sad to see the broken shoots lying around.
Other bean beds (ignored by the creatures) are growing too fast in this warm wet weather (East Sussex) but at least the flimsy netting I put round them has stayed in place and not been pushed over.
I have heard of the hair solution against deer but in spite of living next to a hairdresser I think I could never get enough for 2 ravaged allotments at that site! Cheap netting and old bamboos and string are working well....
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I have heard of the hair solution against deer but in spite of living next to a hairdresser I think I could never get enough for 2 ravaged allotments at that site! Cheap netting and old bamboos and string are working well....
Yes, I don't think its just one of those old wives' tales.
Deer are a wary animal at the best of times and the smell of human really upsets the flight-or-fight hormone ratio in favour of legging it.
If deer were bothering me I would combine the handful-of-hair technique with the string and bamboo barrier you already use. I doubt it could hurt in any way, and ya never know, it might just tip the balance back in your favour... and remember ;) you only have to deter the deer from your plot. Making your neighbour's plot seem an easier meal to a deer is fair-doos to me. :)
Back on topic. The overwintered broad beans I grew last year, from the seed-swap, reached a height of seven or even eight feet tall. They tended to outgrow pest attacks and cropped very well indeed.
I might even plant a few outside in the next day or so. We still haven't had any real frost yet.
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My wizard beans are being eaten too, not netted but the squirrels and voles will simply bite through it so it just spoils the netting. Funnily the earliest sown ones are untouched. Not clear why not. Left some under bottles too long and they have gone leggy. I have been experimenting with burying the seeds rather deeper. Might have to dip the seeds into something smelly.
Some of the plants are so far looking very bonny. Though not holding my breath.
What variety were your seven feet beans did they need support
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I had beetles in my crop this year from spring sowing, not sure if winter grown would be better.
Like Robert said - after a short spell in the freezer they get killed and their eggs too. Although there will probably be other beetles waiting in the garden and the ones killed off aren't the main culprits for next year's crop. There are years where you have more, others where you have none. Just one of those things.
Just want to add that I doubt it makes any difference when they were sown because the damage is done by the adults shortly after flowering in summer when the eggs are laid.
By the way, it may be worth watching French bean seeds saved this year. The bean beetle is rarer than the broad bean one, but more devastating to seeds. Broad beans with holes will generally germinate well, beans often not at all. And in a warmer summer we seem to get more. The only time I had them on my French beans was the warm summer of 2003. It is likely there are some this year too because of warmer weather. I will keep a careful look-out anyway. Not overly worried about broad beans with holes in.
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wired year...mine Broad Bean seeds had been in ground for just over three weeks, and no one germinated yet!
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This is my first try of overwintering and growing broad beans on my plot. I have 'aquadulce' coming through which I have covered with net cloches to stop any pigeons nibbling away. Hopefully will get a good crop.
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I had a few over the winter beans but the tops have bent over and rotted already. Too windy.
Wizard still looking good. Caught a mouse yesterday. Thought it was a vole until I saw its long tail.
I have found that burying the beans a little deeper and then earthing up with manure seems to prevent them being eaten, though the voles seem to have little problems digging.
My pigeons not keen on BB. Not found nets any protection against the mice and voles thy simpy gnaw through or go underneath.
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Funnily the earliest sown ones are untouched. Not clear why not.
This sounds like something that we notice more with peas -
1) Mice etc. show a lot more interest in colder weather when there's less alternative food.
2) They are much more interested in the pea seed than the shoot - they dig down alongside the shoot and leave most of them scattered about after they have eaten the pea. BTW. That's why the traditional guttering method doesn't stop your seedlings being attacked - it's a bit too shallow to support the plant until the seed has shrivelled - use something deeper like juice 'bricks'.
3) They can smell the seeds through the ground - if you use a barrier like expanded metal (metal lathing) that keeps them 20cm away from the row they often don't bother to burrow under it even though it is no problem for them. If they are really hungry then paraffin etc. can backfire because they can smell them from a greater distance.
To my taste buds a pea shoot tastes good and a broad bean one doesn't - so the effect should be stronger - anything that gets the plant ahead will reduce the severity - because more seeds will be shrivelled before the rodents get really hungry.
Cheers.
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(http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo189/laurieuk/298.jpg) (http://s374.photobucket.com/user/laurieuk/media/298.jpg.html)
My aquadulce broad beens a few days ago when I went to pick the brussel sprouts for Christmas. They were sown late October and usually get through the winter to give a good early crop.
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Wow Silverleaf that is quite a collection of beans. I like the idea of cross a field bean with a large bean variety, might give it a go.
My Wizard are mostly doing well, a few drooped in last nights frost, but I am pleased to see most of the plants have a couple of extra growing points near the ground, so hopefully if the main stem succumbs to the winter there are another couple of stems waiting in the wings.
Has anyone tried pinching out the growing tip of autumn BB to encourage more stems to form.
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Have not pinched out the tips but often the tip gets damaged and the lower shoots take over , which is more or less the same thing. It makes the crop that bit later but not sure that you get more.
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I am not after more I am after anything. If I get more than a few pods from Autumn sown BB I feei I am doing well.