Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Tim1988 on September 25, 2015, 15:00:18
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I received and email today starting that because I had not contacted the site manager as requested (I didn't get any such request & not received any communication from him) and I have not done any work on my plot (completely untrue) my tenancy wont be renewed and I have to vacate my plot by 5th October.
Having read my tenancy agreement I am quite confused by my rights etc. Although having read through other forum posts I have seen legal rights about notice periods for non renewal of tenancy and written notices about supposed breach of contracts which I feel my allotment association haven't complied with.
I am absolutely furious and at my wits end over this, I have had my plot for one year and really want to keep it but I don't know what to do. I accept I have not been the perfect tenant over the year but I have been learning and improving whilst I feel really unfairly treated by the management who have made several untrue statements about me and my plot. I have previously asked for copies of their complaints and appeals procedure but only got more attacks on me and my plot.
If anyone could help me understand my rights as a tenant and what I should do next that would be appreciated....
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Welcome to this forum.
You have given little detail of your case. Most committees want no more than happy, successful, members ,cultivating ,co-operating and complying with rules, conditions and requests. Only you know whether you have done that.
You will have protection under the constitution of your association/society and this will be available(again) from the Secretary/chairman. The association/society will also have protection from unruly, non compliant members and those whose actions bring complaint.
If you have a reason to believe you have been unjustly treated, and disclose to this forum the background and reasons for the complaint(s) against you, I have every confidence that the many forum members will generously contribute by way of sincere advice.
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My issues started in spring when I went to my plot to work on it and found all my tools had been taken, compost bin had been thrown over and everything moved around. The day after I received a letter through my door which my old landlord must of popped in as it was addressed to me at my previous address. This letter was from the Allotments association and was a termination/eviction notice. I had not had any previous contact from the allotment manager at all so as you can imagine I was extremely unhappy. I then contacted the allotments office and explained what had happened and they admitted to having made a mistake in not updating my contact details so they withdrew the previous letter. I apologized that I had not kept my plot to a good standard (i had some serious personal issues) but that I had already started work to turn this around.
A couple of days later I received a 28 day notice to 'clean & tidy my plot' so over the next 28 days myself several of my family spent an extraordinary amount of time working on my plot. At the end of this 28 days the plot was dramatically different from how it was and around about within the acceptable standards in the rules. The deadline passed and I received no communications so I assumed everything was ok and our extremely hard work had paid off.
Then months later in the summer I received an email from the allotment office saying that 'it was noted that progress in bringing the plot in to 75% cultivation is unacceptably slow' and 'there is also concern about the disposal of turf'. I was later told that this was informal feedback.
As I disagreed with this untrue email I responded to say so. My plot was 75% cultivated and I could see no major issues. I then received and email from the chair who went to great length to lecture me and not respond to anything I previously said. She went through history telling me how I had not started work on my plot at a previous date(when I had)and that I had done nothing over the above mentioned period time when myself and family members had spent a huge amount of time on the plot.
This saga has caused me a great deal of stress and seriously effected my health as I already struggle with stress related health issues. I wanted to get into allotmenting to not only grow food(which I have done) but to reduce my stress levels but when I am repeatedly being sent emails based on lies and when I am told I did nothing when I spent loads of hours on my plot it has only made me more stressed.
I have been disgusted by the way I have been treated which quite frankly feels like bullying. I have repeatedly asked to be informed of their appeals procedures but I was consistently ignored.
In the mean time I had been working hard on my plot bringing it up to a reasonable standard. Before this morning I had not received any communication from the allotments association for about two months so I assumed everything was ok and I could just get on with my allotmenting.
I received and email today starting that because I had not contacted the site manager as requested (I didn't get any such request & not received any communication from him) and I have not done any work on my plot (completely untrue) my tenancy wont be renewed and I have to vacate my plot by 5th October.
Are they allowed to do this?
They are acting like they can say and do whatever they want no matter what the reality of the situation is.
I can't see that they have any proper constitution or if they have I doubt they will be forth coming with it as they have ignored all my previous requests for information.
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It does seem an odd process.
Several questions:
1) is this a council allotment, or a private one?
2) is the allotment office a council office, likewise allotment manager, or a deputised member of the Committee?
3) have you been taking photographs of progress, or could any family members/neighbouring plot holders attest to the progress you say you've made, particularly before and (specifically) after photos around the 28-day period and how it's been maintained since?
4) have you kept copies of your correspondence with either the Committee or the Council/allotment office? (including copies of requests for appeals processes)
5) if you moved during your tenancy, when did you let the Committee know your new address?
This is only my personal view. If it's a Council allotment, irrespective of whether authority has been delegated to the Committee, I'd write to the relevant officer outlining in a series of (very calm) bullet points what has happened, including the timeline, the theft of your tools and that you have no copies of constitution, have had no right of appeal. Therefore due process hasn't been followed, there's been miscommunication and things may have escalated unnecessarily. Be clear about what information you do have about your tenancy, what that includes and what was stated in the 28-day notice regarding how it would be agreed whether sufficient work had been carried out or not. A copy of the notice would help. I'd also be clear that you want to keep the plot and you want to maintain the agreed level of cultivation. It might help to list what you have grown and what you have done. Include pictures with dates. Include copies of correspondance. Be clear about what gardening experience you do or do not have. If you're happy disclosing relevant health issues, then outline those factually. Copy in the Chair and the Secretary.
I'd ask for a) a meeting to see whether it is possible to agree a process going forward and b) any action for eviction to be suspended until this has taken place. Follow up that letter with phone calls to confirm the letter has been received and to ask when a response will be given. Make a note of who you speak to, when and the content of the phone call. If your local Councillor is helpful, copy them in to the letter too. In all of this, while you might want to state how upsetting it has been, it helps to put as much of the emotion to one side as you can, what you are looking for is a resolution and being able to get on with growing in the future.
Good luck.
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My advice would be to search high and low for another allotment site that you can possibly get to and apply for a plot there - and cut your losses with this site. Some people get in to positions of power through the allotments movement and use it to make them feel big by bullying - I've seen people who have been repeatedly threatened with eviction from their plot in an aggressive manner for gardening organically and trying to use the no-dig method!
Life's not fair. Life's also far too short ... you will only give yourself massive stress trying to battle these people.
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I've seen my neighbours get these non-cultivation letters and find them personally embarrassing and even insulting. It hurts your pride. But you know, having an allotment is time consuming and hard work - so it's not for everyone, especially people with full time jobs and family responsibilities. Tim, you've had severally communications over the year, but you need to put all that aside and take a calm look at this, maybe it is just the wrong time of life for you.
But if you decide to keep the plot, you've got to have a long term plan to look after it, not just get out of the latest rollocking from the committee. I feel for committees who have these absentee tenants who have letters every year, do a bit then lapse until the next letter. And yes, people who use the terms "no dig" and "organic" to dismiss concerns about massive weed farms amuse me too.
Good luck.
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Three very responsive ,positive responses, the gist of which I agree with. Recommend you take all of this onboard and only can suggestin addition, a "site" meeting with the representatives to ask what they wish you to do to keep your plot. Take a witness. Keep it constructive. Avoid confrontation, but do get their agreement of your replies witnessed and follow up with a letter setting all points and the agreed way forward.
Also look at the possibilities of adopting Sqeezie's advice.
Stay calm, life is too short to get too deeply "dug-in"!,
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I think the issue the committee has here is one where you are fairly new to the allotment and due to your personal issues early on not having seen much of you have formed the view you are not committed to your plot.
I do wish these committees would have a mentoring plan in place for new tenants for the first year or two then both the new person and the established tenants would have a better view as to whether to evict or not and also be aware of unexpected issues in the new person's life as these could take many forms from a death in the family to a unforeseen temporary crisis at work.
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Thanks for your comments.
I think I will write up a calm, polite and methodical response to them. I will also see if I can meet up with the allotment manager to talk to him as suggested.
I'm not willing to cut my losses and move on because firstly the huge amount of work I have put into the plot. It was a weedy plot with terrible soil when I took it and I have spent time improving the soil and putting in paths etc. while constantly battling the weeds. Secondly if I was to spend a year or so waiting to get onto a different site it would be the same secretary and committee chair that I have been receiving all these out of order and untrue comments from as it is a borough wide committee.
In hind site I cant quite understand why my site manager couldn't have just given me a friendly phone call to say what he had to say to start with. Perhaps I should have had a conversation with him at some point but i didn't see that there was any major problems or that I would be getting kicked out!
The real issue is that I have been using and working my plot and they have said I haven't so they won't renew my tenancy with no advanced notice or possibility of improvement or appeal. I have just finished pulling my carrots, picking my tomatoes and digging up my last few spuds whilst I have had copious amount of strawberries, raspberries, blackberries, gooseberries, appleas and rhubarb. I admit it hasn't all gone to plan but part of that is where I am still learning. I didn't start off very well but then I busted a gut to bring things up to standard.
Re: your questions Sparrow
It is a council allotment that is run by a separate allotment committee.
The allotment office is run by a p/t staff member appointed by the committee. The allotment manager I think is appointed by the committee although I am not sure how but they are volunteers and not connected to the council.
I have unfortunately not been taking photographs (i wish I had!) I have particularly spoken to any of the neighboring plots but when I am next there I will see if I can catch anyone.
I have copies of most of the correspondence with them so I can refer to that if necessary.
I moved just after I got the plot (which didn't go as well as I had thought which was one of the reasons I didn't make a great start) but I notified them straight away and they admitted it was their own administrative mistake that correspondence wasn't being sent to the right address but they didn't act as if this may have been part of the problem.
I've had some advice from a friend who believes that they aren't actually acting in accordance with the law in at least they haven't given me 6 months notice for non renewal of tenancy and probably because they aren't following fair procedure over notice and right to appeal because they are basically saying I am in breach of the site rules. What do people think? Obviously I won't go with this angle when I talk to them initially but given I only have a week I may have to quite soon.
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Also as a slight aside comment....
I used to be on a parish council and we had two allotments. One of which ran itself completely by its own committee but the other had a committee that ran day to day things but the bigger decisions were taken by the parish council. This meant on the rare occasion when they wanted to evict someone it was the parish council that would make the final decision which was good because it meant the two sides stated their reasons and evidence and independent people made the decision. That seemed like a much fairer way of doing it.
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Just to put my two pennyworth in. If it is a Council site, the Council run it, and if you have paid your rent on time, I think non-cultivation notices are sent out by the Council, and they have to go by certain rules before they evict anyone. The allotment Secs are not paid, and as far as I know they do not have any authority to remove anyone. They can report uncultivated sites to the Council, then the Council decides, but on my allotment site, this rarely happens and takes ages. Even the sites that are obviously not cultivated and very overgrown, the Council has problems evicting people. I had to laugh because our new allotment Sec. was busy at his job, and I said you are not setting a good example, so he spent a day digging it over. Luckily, or unluckily, depending on how you look at it, the Council are very lax at chucking people off, and some people deserve it, they come up once or twice a year and then let it very overgrown, and I mean weeds as tall as me. Feel very sorry for you with your problems, as mine is a bit overgrown, but still get good produce, and would hate to lose it. It is good for the birds and wild life, that is my excuse. Well next week a good bonfire and loads of weeding before winter.
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I have to disagree on one point Borlotti - if the Council has delegated authority to the Committee to manage the site, that will likely include authority for terminating tenancies. That's the case on our site, where the Committee is made up of volunteers elected from current plotholders.
Where the Council can be useful is through writing to the specific officer to highlight that due process hasn't been followed and that no appeals have been allowed, copying in your local Councillor. Plus highlighting any extenuating circumstances. You are simply asking for the appeals process to be followed. The Councillor will likely ask for further information from the Council employees and bring the case under more of a spotlight. As a newcomer Tim1988 might not have been as familiar with reasons for or confident in approaching the Committee.
That's probably the limit of my advice - sounds like our process differs. We have an informal chat with people, issue a warning, issue a cultivation notice and then issue a notice to quit. Appeal processes are there and are advertised in all correspondence.
I hope it goes well and you manage to resolve the issues.
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So I thought I would give an updates with the situation as I've made no progress.
At the begging of the week I replied asking that the termination of my tenancy be suspended to give me a chance to meet up and have a site visit. I also asked again for copies of the allotments policies etc. I hadn't received a reply so I sent a polite follow up 'I hope you got my email'. Still with no reply I phoned the office this morning before I got the chance to say anything I was told that she had got my email and that they will be replying by email, I asked when I might be getting a reply but got no answer.
As the original email said my plot has to be cleared by Monday I asked what was going to be happening next week and what will be happening to my plot... again no answer. I just got an earful from a cranky woman who then hung up on me! I thought that this was incredibly rude and especially as this was the allotment secretary which is a paid role!
I have tried to contact my borough council but couldn't get through to the person I needed to talk to but I will keep trying. I will also try and contact my councilor tonight.
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Stay with it, sounds like you have made a start! Ruffled a few feathers! Maybe shone some light into dark corners. Persist with your councillor.
If no positive interest there, approach your local newspaper. They love this kind of story. To get publicity, tell them the whole story-,
but to get action,give brief details only and arrange a future meeting with a reporter. Then contact the reluctant councillor (and plot secretary), tell them of the press "interest", and invite them to meet with you. Depending on their reactions, invite the reporter to attend. In my experience, the councillor will hate the prospect of public scrutiny/adverse publicity and the plot sceretary will be unlikely to be "available".
Meanwhile, carry on and get the plot shipshape,and/ or use the time to relocate.
Good luck
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I hope things work out for you. Whole things does not seem right to me. Who employs this person. Suggest you go to the organ grinder.
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I thoroughly agree with Ellen K. Absent tenants are a major problem. I have one plot on my site where I have had get rid of the last 2 tenants. In both cases they were just too busy in their day jobs to have an allotment. The 2nd tenant cultivated his plot in March 2 years running and then never came up again. I gave him a second chance but he repeated the exercise so he has had to go. Why do people not admit that they just cannot manage an allotment at this present time in their lives ? Family and careers come first. At the same time new people have to be given a bit of more time to settle in but as long as I can see that they are making an effort then I am more than happy.
I think Tim has to have a plan going forward on how much time he can spend on the allotment and try to present his case to the site rep or the council. There is usually an appeals procedure in these cases but few take it up.
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It is true that absent plot holders can be an issue but I wasn't an absent plot holder. Since the end of spring their had only been the odd week that I hadn't been to my plot and most weeks I was up there 2/3 or more times. I had a plan to go forward such as adding another fruit tree or two, planting out my strawberry runners and planting bits that grow over winter. But I paused on starting these things that week because I was being told I had to vacate my plot the next week.
On the 2nd I received an email from the committee chairman saying that the reason my contract wasn't being renewed was because I hadn't ever had my plot 75% cultivated and I had to have all my things off my plot by the 4th. Their prior email said gave a different reason which was that I hadn't phoned a man and not been on my plot for two months. Both these reasons were completely untrue.
I had contacted the council who seemed completely uninterested and just told me to contact the allotment committee. So as time was short I decided to take tool shed and things off my plot as I was concerned about their safety. I also contacted people the committee and council again but received no reply. Time was very short and I felt like I wasn't going to get anywhere.
I have accepted that I have now been forced off my plot and that I wasn't going to get anywhere with the allotment office or committee chair as they seem perfectly happy to be dishonest, ignore me and any proper procedures when it suits them.
Having done some research I am now quite clear that they acted inappropriately and in blatant contradiction of allotment law.
They told me that they were not renewing my tenancy with about 10 days notice and because they weren't happy with what I was doing. Law states that if a tenancy is not to be renewed notice must be given in writing with 12 months notice but this notice is not for 'breaking the rules'. Whilst if someone is to be kicked out for breaking the rules then they must have at least 1 months written notice. I'm not sure if there is any legal right of appeal but I have read about cases of people taking their eviction to court and one but I have no intention of doing that. You would think though any decent organization would give a reasonable and fair right to appeal.
So I am going to keep contacting the council and my local councilors to get a change to my local allotments. Allotments have to act properly and within the law. While they should have proper procedures that are available to all that include the right to appeal if you disagree with a decision made. But they should also have thorough procedures in place so things don't ever get to that.
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I am sorry you had to leave your plot.
These things are often difficult to resolve with out there being hard feelings on one side or the other.
It does seem that there should be some sort of face to face methods of resolving these issues as letters and emails although keeping a good record never seem to get to the real reasons for the course taken.
To me this seems an ideal case for Judge Rinder :brave:
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maybe a trip to citizens advice would be an idea they may even write you a letter stating your case a bit more formal than just a phone call just a thought hope it helps
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It is my considered opinion that, at this stage , you may as well cut and run. Even if you won this battle, you ain't gonna win the war.
However, in the circumstances you relate, it may be appropriate to write to the Chairman of the Council involved and state your full case. Copy this letter to your MP. Write to this MP separately, requesting that he follows up your case. Write to your local press Letters page, outlining the bare facts, and the fact that your have presented your case in the letters to Chairman of council and MP. This may attract the attention of a national newspaper, especially if you approach them . Any suspicions of motive, if feasible , any hint of impropriety ,will be a plus. Please keep it factually correct.
With the consent of this site Moderator, it may be time to identify the Council/site to protect others.
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Perhaps it's too late for this, but I would do the "charm offensive". Go to the committee, eat a bit of humble pie and try to negotiate a plan to get to grips with the cultivation. You've only been on the plot one season and sometimes people need that to learn what to do to keep their plot up to spec. Taking hostile actions is only going to make them dig in. If they are like our allotment manager, well she takes pictures of plots immediately before sending each letter so you don't have a leg to stand on really, however much you wail and threaten to escalate.
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Hi Tim1998
what you must realise is that allotment associations like the one you are on operate in a completely unregulated world. The committee are free to act how they want, where truth, rules and natural justice are of no consequence.
If 'they' (those who run the allotment) want you off, then they will get you off, no matter how well cultivated your plot. Forget about tenants rights, proper notice, right to appeal, right to know what you have done wrong, these rights will be ignored.
When councils passed on their allotment land to associations they did not ensure that they were properly regulated, the reason for this is that they didn't want to become involved in disputes like yours. Because of this many allotments are run by self-interested groups of mean spirited people.
Self-managed plots can fly with the freedoms from council control but unfortunatlely they can also become hostile back biting places when the wrong people get in control.
Be sure that many of the posters on here will try to turn your situation around and try their best to imply that your undoing is basically your own fault...they specialise in it poor things.
Someone I know did go to a solicitor, and he wrote to his association threatening financial damages if they went ahead with the eviction. It worked but it came at some financial cost.
In theory if you refuse to leave your allotment, and contest their reasons for eviction, they can only get you off their land legally using a properly served court order. Of course if they are as nasty as they sound then they will use a more physical approach to get you off.
Good luck....you will need it!
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Be sure that many of the posters on here will try to turn your situation around and try their best to imply that your undoing is basically your own fault...they specialise in it poor things.
Do not think you will find any posters like that on A4A Nodig I am afraid unless it is in a site supervisor role
with a scarecrow to have issues with
( the comedian returns again ) :happy1:
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There have been a number of tales of disputes posted on this forum and sadly very few end happily.
Most of them feel very aggrieved.
There seems to be a need for some kind of independent arbitration when disputes arise.
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Perhaps, but it is also true that if most of the tenants who argue with the committee / go to the press / see a solicitor etc instead put that energy into cultivating their plots, there would be far fewer evictions.
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Perhaps, but it is also true that if most of the tenants who argue with the committee / go to the press / see a solicitor etc instead put that energy into cultivating their plots, there would be far fewer evictions.
Quite often true but there are the other cases like our dear friend Unwashed came up against and those where someone dares to have an opinion that does not meet with those in power views or a breakdown in communication.
I do wish that sites had a buddy sort of scheme for allotment owners so there is feedback and encouragement
and help when personal issues happen.
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Yes, I thought about Unwashed when I posted but his eviction was nothing to do with cultivation. His council gave him a standard 12 months notice to quit, which they all have the right to do with any of us, for being a "vexatious" tenant. As much sympathy as I had for the guy, he wasn't a typical case.
It's a tough one - this is what is says on our Council's website, in a highlighted box:
Taking on an allotment requires long term dedication through frequent visits and hard work in order to keep them to an acceptable standard of cultivation.
And yet we see it every year - new tenants take on a plot, and there is an initial burst of activity followed by abandonment. I think a buddy system assumes people are committed to have an allotment and just need information while they are starting up. Whereas in reality people don't have the time or are just unwilling to do the hard work. And it's a lot of work.
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Perhaps, but it is also true that if most of the tenants who argue with the committee / go to the press / see a solicitor etc instead put that energy into cultivating their plots, there would be far fewer evictions.
Quite often true but there are the other cases like our dear friend Unwashed came up against and those where someone dares to have an opinion that does not meet with those in power views or a breakdown in communication.
I do wish that sites had a buddy sort of scheme for allotment owners so there is feedback and encouragement
and help when personal issues happen.
the buddy scheme don't work people feel even more pressured into turning up so they give up don't tell anyone so the whole letter thing starts again i think all new plot holders should have a 6 month probation on our site out of 5 new plot holders your might with a following wind end up with 1 being there longer than 1 year 1 in 15 to be a decent gardener that's what we have to put up with i think its the commitment people struggle with and start at the wrong time in the lives when they either work to hard at there job or have to many hobbies you cannot dabble in allotmenterring it takes alot of time in some ways it a life choice rather than a hobby this i think is the message we be telling to our new fresh faced members
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I love my plot a lot. But somehow the weeds still get the better of me. I think on many sites I might have been shown the door. Yet even so I get huge amounts of crops. I do not believe that plants are supposed to grow in ordered rows looking like an animated army from Startrek. I do not believe in seeing bare soil. So currently my plot is covered in green and some of them could be describes as weeds.
I do get rid of blowing weeds so they do not stray onto other people.
I am very pleased we do not have a bossy committee.
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I agree with completely with Digeroo. My plot is far from perfect, but last year was not too good, but have had good years, and give loads of stuff away. I go up when I can, every day if possible, or once a week, some people go up once and do not see them for a year, so that is silly. I think they have paid the rent for a year, and then don't bother to give it up, which is annoying. Most allotments have weeds, unless they use weed killer. Life is not perfect and allotments are not perfect, but weeds taller than me and no-one ever up there, they pay their money and then give up. Luckily we are have two good Allotment Secs. who are reasonable and trying to speak to the Council to sort out the plots that are overgrown. This year if I feel it is getting too much for me, so maybe next year will have half a plot, if we don't move away, and being a nice person, will be in touch with the Council (so someone else can take it on) that is if they ever answer the phone.
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Ellen K....."But if a committee member told me that my plot was "not up to standard", well I don't see how that is "help" and I'd just tell them to mind their own business. It's between me and the landlord."
Edit to remove inappropriate text.
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Jeez this forum's getting unpleasant.
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Time to remember that this forum is to here to help and advise other members and the many non members who view the forum.
Its not a place to "have a go" at anyone.
The mods haven't had to use the "Edit" button for a while but it's still here and so are we.
ETA, the Edit button has now been used, please don't make it necessary again. There's plenty to keep us occupied trying to intercept the recent onslaught of Spammers.
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Just as an aside, I wonder what allotment committees would do if a plot holder deliberately cultivated weeds?
I don't have an allotment so this is entirely hypothetical, but since I got my new rabbits I've been really into growing and foraging wild plants for them. A lot of these plants are of course weeds, but I'm tending them as if they are a crop.
I guess if I'm harvesting them for rabbits to eat, they are a crop.
My hypothetical plot would be full of plants that others would dig out. Of course I wouldn't let them seed or otherwise spread all over the place onto other people's plots. But it would look like I was neglecting it, especially if I started growing grass for hay.
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Did you sow the cultivated dandelions from the seed swop?