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Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: goodlife on November 23, 2014, 11:55:33

Title: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 23, 2014, 11:55:33
Came across this interesting read...http://orca.cf.ac.uk/56030/1/U584777.pdf

I haven't had chance to go through it yet myself...just skimmed quickly over and decided it is worth of mentioning...
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Digeroo on November 23, 2014, 22:31:06
This is proving interesting in parts.  Some is a bit too much for my old brain.

But I have found an interesting bit that bulbils planted in January having been kept in a refridgerator did better than September sown ones.  I thought they needed sowing asap, so had not though of storing in the fridge until the new year.  I will put a reminder in my phone so I do not forget next year.

I have also had a thought that my leeks have grown on from bulbils so are in fact clones which might be the reason that the seeds may not be viable since there are no fathers only mothers.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on November 24, 2014, 13:59:18
Try getting  bulbils from another source, so hopefully it'll be a different strain with significant genetic differences.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Digeroo on November 27, 2014, 02:09:29
Having been convinced that the seeds on my leeks were not viable since they seemed very soft and fail a germination test, they are now sprouting quite happily on the seed heads.    :BangHead:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 27, 2014, 09:39:02
Lol...they are 'variety' that demands specific conditions for germination..they want to be close to 'mum'.. :icon_cheers:

Now you have to take tweezers out and start plugging those seedlings out...one at the time and transplanting them into tray of compost.......have fun... :angel11: :coffee2:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 27, 2014, 11:20:59
Goodlife, where do you dig out these interesting papers.  No doubt a lot will be over my head and I have only just started reading, but already very interesting.

Am I remembering this correctly - did we have a discussion years ago about Babington Leek? I described mine, you described yours - and they were different?  There is a nice list of similar species on page 4.  I hope I remember this correctly.  If it was somebody else or perhaps a discussion on another list, my apologies.

I found the Multiplier Onion Minogue (from Heritage Seed Library) on this list, which I have shared with a few people here.  It is A. ampeloprasum var.sectivum.  Always thought this 'pearl onion' looks more like a small leek rather than an onion on account of the flat leaves.

more reading ............... 

Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 27, 2014, 11:26:23
Page 12 answers another question that I wasn't sure about from a seedsaving point of view.  Babington Leek is both male and female sterile.  This means that is will not cross with Leek and it will not cross with the pearl onion Minogue.  Excellent news  :wave:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Digeroo on November 27, 2014, 12:40:26
So are we saying that the Babington leek only comes from bulbils, so it must spread very slowly in the wild.   

It may be that they are actually seeds germinating but very small sprouting bulbils,  I am going to shake some over some pots and see what happens.

Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 27, 2014, 13:10:13
So are we saying that the Babington leek only comes from bulbils, so it must spread very slowly in the wild.   

It may be that they are actually seeds germinating but very small sprouting bulbils,  I am going to shake some over some pots and see what happens.

No, Babington Leek has 3 propagation mechanisms.  Bulbils (from the top), Bulblets (the appendages to the bulbs in the ground with the dark yellow sharp pointed hard outer layer) and Bulb splitting.  But according to the thesis, propagation by seed isn't one of them. 
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 27, 2014, 13:12:50
G
Quote
oodlife, where do you dig out these interesting papers.
I'm naturally nosey and when I have to ask 'why'...I just HAVE TO dig answers out....somewhere along I might come across 'stuff' that might not relate to what I've looked for in first place...
basically just by chance.. :drunken_smilie:

Quote
Am I remembering this correctly - did we have a discussion years ago about Babington Leek? I described mine, you described yours - and they were different?  There is a nice list of similar species on page 4.  I hope I remember this correctly.  If it was somebody else or perhaps a discussion on another list, my apologies.

Yes we did have discussion about our leeks.. ..as of plants..not bladder accidents.. :tongue3: :icon_cheers:
I mentioned how yeeeears ago I bought 'Babington's leek from 'Future foods' cataloque (business that haven't existed for looooong time) ..or that what they were supposed to be. But I now believe they are kind of wild leek that does throw flower heads but not seeds or bulbils. .. Instead they make loads of bulblets underground. I'm only going by description so I cannot be 100% sure of the identity. I haven't managed to get any seeds out the flower heads that would germinate...yet. :dontknow:
'ummm...let me see if I can 'dig out' the info again.....I'll be back...' :coffee2:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 27, 2014, 13:32:42
Right...found it..!

Link=http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Allium+ampeloprasum (http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Allium+ampeloprasum)
At the bottom the page, in cultivation section cultivar called 'Perizweibel'....that is what I was wondering about at the time and still do.
My leek is doesn't have wild leek look about like in photo (quite humble looking head compared 'modern' varieties)...the flower head in mine are big and round, just like any other leek...but it makes good number of bulbils underground...and the 'mother bulb' just keep growing until it is almost 'onion size'..all solid single bulb and no layers like in onion. Babies do grow quite quickly...from little pearls to marble size in a first year and by second year, in autumn,  they are small garlic size single bulbs..it is that size I like to harvest them to be used  as leek flavoured 'onions'.. :icon_cheers: Originally I might have mentioned they grow quicker than that but now that I've paid more attention..I was being too optimistic with my memory :drunken_smilie: Oh, and 'my' leeks are perennial sort..if I don't lift and divide the babies...there is great thicket of the plants in spring amongst the bigger 'adults'...no amount of cold have killed them yet.
'hmm....must scribble the 'Perizweibel' in my notes (read huge pile of bits of paper lying around desk):drunken_smilie:...and remember to look more to it variety...haven't come across it during 'surfing'..(does anybody anymore 'surf' in net these day...?) 
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 27, 2014, 13:48:00
Using Pertzwiebel as search name did yield more info...see here...https://www.southernexposure.com/perennial-leek-oepri-perlzwiebel-2-oz-p-1440.html?zenid=i70j0o16rru76v15grn6ota3i7 (https://www.southernexposure.com/perennial-leek-oepri-perlzwiebel-2-oz-p-1440.html?zenid=i70j0o16rru76v15grn6ota3i7)...although I'm still not any closer to the 'truth'...it does sound very much like 'my leek'  :icon_cheers:
..and here http://heirloomonions.com/?page_id=728 (http://heirloomonions.com/?page_id=728)
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 27, 2014, 18:55:39
Using Pertzwiebel as search name did yield more info...see here...https://www.southernexposure.com/perennial-leek-oepri-perlzwiebel-2-oz-p-1440.html?zenid=i70j0o16rru76v15grn6ota3i7 (https://www.southernexposure.com/perennial-leek-oepri-perlzwiebel-2-oz-p-1440.html?zenid=i70j0o16rru76v15grn6ota3i7)...although I'm still not any closer to the 'truth'...it does sound very much like 'my leek'  :icon_cheers:
..and here http://heirloomonions.com/?page_id=728 (http://heirloomonions.com/?page_id=728)

Three morphologically distinct varieties are recognised in Britain; Var. babingtonii
(bulbils 8 - 15mm length); var. ampeloprasum, a seed producing variant considered
to be very rare (Wade et al., 1994) growing on rocky sea cliffs in Wales and
Anglesey (Roberts and Day, 1987) as well as in Cornwall (Mathew, 1996); and var.
bulbiferum (Syme) (syn. var. bulbilliferum Lloyd), a bulbil producing form endemic
in the Channel Islands and lie d'Yeu, N. France (Mathew, 1996), and also found in
W. France (Heukels, 2000; Wiggington, 1999), producing bulbils that are noticeably
smaller than those of var. babingtonii (6 - 8mm) (Heukels, 2000) (Table 1).
Cultivated varieties include the leek (A. ampeloprasum var. porrum L. Gay), widely
grown as a crop throughout Europe, the kurrat, great-headed garlic and the pearl onion (Brewster, 1994) (Table 1).
I wonder whether you have got this one?:  A. ampeloprasum var. ampeloprasum and not var babingtonii
it is very rare and somewhat endangered.

Perlzwiebel is something different according to the description in the thesis (let's assume that is the correct classification).  There is such a great amount of confusion with the term Perlzwiebel being used for all sorts, especially in the States. This would make yours the true wild leek, now rare, as best as I can understand.

Characteristics:
Abundant in 1625, but declining
rapidly, with only hundreds of plants
being recorded recently; compact
umbels with no bulbils; seed producing

All info from page 4.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 27, 2014, 20:26:26
Going back to this link:
http://heirloomonions.com/?page_id=728

and comparing what the thesis has to say about allium ampeloprasum var sectivum.  It seems that they are talking about a different plant altogether.  The thesis says:
A. ampeloprasum var.
sectivum Lued. (Pearl
onion)
Little pseudostem; bulbs, fertile seed;
large numbers of daughter bulbs

The drawing on the website has a rather large-stemmed leek with multiple smaller stems arising out of it.  If yours looks like that it is VERY different from say the Minogue onion.

If your leek is pearl onion (Perlzwiebel), then Minogue isn't because the plants are so much smaller.  As you have grown both, do you think they are the same species?

This is fascinating, no wonder there is such a huge confusion going on. 

Just wanted to add:  if the plants you got were from PFAF plants for a future, it is very likely they are some of the UK native species. 




Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 27, 2014, 20:48:57
Code: [Select]
Perlzwiebel is something different according to the description in the thesis (let's assume that is the correct classification).Common names are so confusing and just like with any other plants, same names are used for entirely different plants.
But the 'perennial leek' link describe the plants, that I think I might have, very well...and the drawing in the link too. Mine definitely are leek not onion and they do grow quite robust plants too...one would not notice immediate difference to 'ordinary' biennial leek...until you spot the babies coming up.
Minoque is clearly onion...look, smell and taste wise. 

This afternoon I spent couple of hours digging through my 'old papers' to see if I still have copy of Future Foods old catalogue from 90's......but it looks like I have done too good tidy up last few years or so...SEE, one should never throw 'anything' away... :BangHead:..it would have been interesting to see what else they listed...I started wondering how this mixed up did happen..was it me ordering wrong stuff and then thinking it was Babington leek or they sending as babingtonii or just got stock mixed up.  :drunken_smilie:Either way...I'm not disappointed. Sadly Future Foods operated before all this internet 'hulabaloo' so there is nothing to be found in net...not yet anyway...

I'm going to make effort tomorrow and no matter how wet and horrid it is outside...I'll go and get some photos of  'my leek'.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 27, 2014, 21:11:01
Oh - my mistake - Future Foods, not Plants for a Future catalogue.  Now that is going back a looooooong time.  Proprietor Jeremy Cherfas originally from what I remember, then another head of HSL after he left there.  Jeremy is still around and blogging (did a quick google search).  You could ask him - he should remember what they had in the catalogue and where it originated from  :happy7:

Point taken about onion Minogue, need to keep looking for a latin name there.   :wave:

Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 27, 2014, 22:55:50
...and talking about wild leeks..[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23754235][/url]

How did I missed this news ..it was only last year... :drunken_smilie:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 28, 2014, 07:28:02
...and talking about wild leeks..[url http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-23754235 ][/url]

How did I missed this news ..it was only last year... :drunken_smilie:

What a stunning photo in the article.  The site 'South Stack' was also mentioned in the thesis as one of the few location where the rare Allium ampeloprasum var allium still survives.  Good to read that they had a record flowering year, because this wild leek does mainly propagate by seeds and makes no bulbils. 

Yes, the description of your leek sounds just like the Perlzwiebel, it should propagate from seeds too, make lots of daughter bulbs and have no bulbils according to the thesis - which is exactly how you describe it. 

One more question.  Babington Leek has a mild garlic flavour.  Does your leek taste like mild garlic?
 



Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 28, 2014, 07:30:38
Having been convinced that the seeds on my leeks were not viable since they seemed very soft and fail a germination test, they are now sprouting quite happily on the seed heads.    :BangHead:

Is this Babington Leek or another type of leek Digeroo?
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 28, 2014, 09:06:22
So are we saying that the Babington leek only comes from bulbils, so it must spread very slowly in the wild.   


Just read page 16 of the thesis, where the author goes to great lengths describing the advantages and disadvantages of propagation by seeds vs propagation (cloning) by bulbils.  The astonishing fact with high-diploid vegetables like leek is that propagation by cloning is more advantageous under many conditions.  The author describes garlic as being in transition from sexual to asexual propagation, with only the 'vineale' garlic still producing viable seeds.  Babington Leek is already only propagated by clones (3 different methods of cloning).  The Wild Leek,  allium ampeloprasum var ampeloprasum, which propagates from seed, but otherwise lives in very similar locations and looks similar to Babington leek, is actually the rare and endangered one!  Babington Leek on the other hand has been able to substantially increase in the wild.  Counterintuitive but apparently so. Interesting.   :glasses9: 
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 28, 2014, 12:35:24
Well..seeds often take some time to germinate and they need specific conditions to do so AND survive before they are robust enough to cope against elements, pests etc. Bulbils/lets are months ahead development, they are cosseted and provided for by the mother plant and they are that much bigger to take on pest and physical damage too.
It is astonishing indeed...but it makes sense...though how did the plants know when their DNA was good enough to carry on by bulblets only and they could forget all that hassle with pollen transfer... :drunken_smilie: :tongue3: What made one variety think that seeds would be the 'answer' for their success.. :drunken_smilie:
It would be so interesting to be able to see what were the environmental triggers to that selection.. :drunken_smilie:
I NEED MORE proper plant programs!!! GIVE ME GEEKY DETAILS ...biology... rather than never ending animal/nature/gardening stuff!!! :cussing:  ...no that there is anything wrong with nature/animal programs as such..

All this thinking could keep me entertained for ages... :toothy10:...sad of what!  :glasses9:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 28, 2014, 15:36:05
Right...(1st photo)here is 'my leek', these were planted in green this spring when just emerged little things. They are reasonably good size and since all the TLC they've received from me was space and teeny bit of compost and fertilizer into planting holes. They've had to defend themselves...survived competition from weeds and no water other than what nature provided...AND they DIDN'T suffer any rust even my struggling garlic was only few yards away.. :icon_cheers:
(2nd photo) Same age 'youngsters' , but still growing in their original clump..not thinned out.
(3rd) Same but washed to show developing bulbs
(4th) Ordinary leek's bulbils...yes, they do them but not in such a quantity as my leek (wild leek).
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 28, 2014, 16:44:10
Thank you for these super pictures goodlife.   :sunny:

They are a sizeable leek, that's for sure.  And as you say, no rust and no leek moth damage.  Picture 4, the ordinary leek, looks like it has a bit of damage.  The bulbs are of a good size,  I did not expect that at all.  Certainly a fabulous perennial leek to have and it seems to thrive without fuss too. 

Yes I get bulbils from ordinary leek as well, especially when it was wet at flowering time.  When the seed making progress is obviously inhibited (rain, no pollinating insects), then they 'switch' to the other mechanism of producing live babies.  It is always worth checking seedheads over, there are almost always a few lurking, especially near the stem. 

I have never had leek moth damage (so far) on Babington Leek and wondered whether that was because the mild garlicky flavour discourages the moth.  Does your Perlzwiebel leek have a hint of garlic or is it just leek flavoured?

Thank you for dashing out and taking the photos.  :wave:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on November 28, 2014, 17:24:25
Quote
Does your Perlzwiebel leek have a hint of garlic or is it just leek flavoured?
You know, I don't have no idea... :dontknow: I admit I've never tasted it raw..it has been just 'shoved' amongst the other ingredients into stew pot and let to 'mingle'.
Now that you've asked about it...I must make effort to taste and 'see'.

Btw...I'm going to sort those 'babies' out over weekend, wrap them up for postie and get them sent for you... :icon_thumleft:
They are bit on the larger side that I would like them to be for transplanting..but they will still take, it just that they might jump into 'baby' production mode in next year...maybe even flowering..
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on November 28, 2014, 17:38:26
Awesome!  Thank you goodlife   :angel11:   :wave: 
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on November 29, 2014, 16:33:40
I'm really confused about how to classify these things at the moment. I've got 'Minogue', something else which looks similar with greenish bulbs, but which doesn't seem to form the little bulbils (the bulbs grow to about an inch diameter, then split), and Babbington's.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on December 02, 2014, 11:25:14
They have just arrived and looking VERY good.  Thank you very much goodlife  :sunny:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on December 02, 2014, 11:33:04
I'm really confused about how to classify these things at the moment. I've got 'Minogue', something else which looks similar with greenish bulbs, but which doesn't seem to form the little bulbils (the bulbs grow to about an inch diameter, then split), and Babbington's.

Robert, You and us all.  It is not easy.  But thanks to the thesis, we can be quite certain that goodlife's leek is Perlzwiebel aka allium ampeloprasum var sectivum and mine (which is the one that went into the seed circle a few years ago) is Babington Leek, aka allium ampeloprasum var Babingtonii.  Still unsure to find a classification for Minogue myself.   :wave:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on December 02, 2014, 13:27:06
If you lot are interested...I can keep eye on the 'situation' and save some youngsters for next year...maybe I'm trying to catch them in 'pearl' stage (summer) when they are bit effort to find in the soil but very easy to post  :wave:
I don't know yet how many I could supply for in first time round, but start giving me 'hints' and when the time is right..I'll give you shout when they are ready.
Oh...can't get my brain in gear today...but I'm sure you know what I mean... :drunken_smilie:

Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on December 03, 2014, 19:16:57
Yes, I'd be glad of some. I'm amassing a lot of perennial onions at the moment; the more the merrier really, as it should all help understand the classification once I can get my head round it!
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Vinlander on December 21, 2014, 14:35:55
I found an Autumn 1998 edition of Future Foods catalogue with Babbington's Leek on P18.

Quote: "a long flower stalk carries a mass of bulbils, with seed seldom (never?) produced" and "underground daughter bulbs ....  will grow away more rapidly if the very mtough protective coat is slit carefully with a sharp knife".

Typically excellent and useful advice from Jeremy and his team - this source is much missed.     

On P19 is Allium cepa aggregatum - multiplier onions: "Besancon" (c cedilla), "Potato Onion" and "Southern White Shallot". Followed by Allium cepa proliferum "Tree Onion" described as "possibly the long-forgotten Catawissa Red".                   

I might also try this advice:
" bulbils planted in January having been kept in a refrigerator did better than September sown ones. "
with flower-top bulbils from hardneck garlics and leeks (I'm always interested in propagating rogue leeks that have vivid purple leaves in winter and/or really nice flowers in reds and purples - reduces the pressure to waste my time growing non-edible stuff).

Cheers.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on December 21, 2014, 14:47:17
Yayy... :icon_cheers: Have you still got real paper copy of it..? :icon_thumleft:
Were there no other perennial leeks then?
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on December 21, 2014, 15:14:27
Vinlander, that's excellent information. 

The only problem is that I cannot find goodlife's leek described there.  Also with Babington Leek it isn't the bulbils that have the hard skin, it is the bulblets.  The bulbils sprout readily, the bulblets not so much.  I wonder whether the fridge advice and the slitting the wrapper advice is meant for the bulblets (which are appendages to the underground bulbs).  Elephant garlic has similar bulblets with a hard yellow-brown cover with a sharp point.  The wrappers on the top bulbils (that develop inside the flower) can be removed with ease and are often only partially developed.

Did they sell bulblets?  The only catalogue I have is summer 99, which doesn't have any multiplier onions in them. 

Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Vinlander on December 24, 2014, 11:17:34
Now you mention it I'm sure they used to sell "3 cornered leek", maybe more. I will have to look for some older catalogues - I always kept them because they were so informative - it's just a question of where...

They definitely sold " top" bulbils - the "underground daughter bulbs" are presumably too big?

Incidentally the best substitute I've found is the website at "Agroforestry Research" dot- something, but be aware that "edible" means little more than that - "edible and delicious" means it might be interesting.

I also kept most of Jeremy Cherfas' "Herbivore" articles from Kew magazine - among the  highlights were: How did they make gazpacho in Europe before tomatoes arrived (grapes!) and how did such a small population/density in the Americas find the one-in-millions hybrid that was maize (they were already all out looking for seed heads infected with a delicious fungus) - brilliant stuff.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on December 24, 2014, 11:39:17
 :icon_cheers: You do sound like my kind of 'gardener'....all manner of interesting plant related info stashed away for 'future reference'  :drunken_smilie:
I wonder how much good info is 'lost' or is not available for 'normal' people...all stashed away in achieves, gathering dust...and just because it was brought up times before internet...and digging it out is like looking for snapped up, half a needle from huge barn full of hay.. :drunken_smilie:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on December 24, 2014, 17:20:40
I've heard of three-cornered leek, it's possibly the same as ransoms, but I'm not sure, and I'm at my daughter's for a few days with no books.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on December 24, 2014, 21:24:30
I've heard of three-cornered leek, it's possibly the same as ransoms, but I'm not sure, and I'm at my daughter's for a few days with no books.
3-corned leek is not same as ransoms....ransoms =wild garlic
They both look and taste different...but equally rampant growers
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: artichoke on December 31, 2014, 12:06:58
Goodlife, I sent you some three cornered leek and wild garlic ?2 years ago.....hope it is they that are growing rampantly. Three cornered leeks are already up in back garden, useful for adding a bit of greenery to soups, casseroles, omelettes etc.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on December 31, 2014, 12:56:51
Goodlife, I sent you some three cornered leek and wild garlic ?2 years ago.....hope it is they that are growing rampantly. Three cornered leeks are already up in back garden, useful for adding a bit of greenery to soups, casseroles, omelettes etc.
OH YES...they are rampant indeed! :icon_cheers: Leeks are up here too..though under the snow at the moment, but I hope I can start harvesting them soon :icon_cheers: And not only that...last year I lifted clump up and divided some for friends too :icon_cheers:
As for the garlic....it is still managed to stay in its allocated spot..JUST..I get loads of flowers from them and they have set seeds and seeded around freely too...not a problem though..they have still room and are happy to grow where not much else does. In fact I did chop all flower heads off last year to stop them seeding any more...and weeded some newly emerged seedling off too  :drunken_smilie:
They've been great success :icon_cheers: Thanks to you and your fresh supply...that was the trick for my previous problems :icon_thumleft:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on March 26, 2015, 10:22:35
What size do your 'leeks' get to when planted out separately, Goodlife? On the face of it, they look very much like some mystery plants which were passed on to me last ear, but mine only get to about a foot high, with, as far as I can see so far, one-inch bulbs. Splitting Minogue in March was probably a mistake as a lot of them don't have much root, but the all looked perfectly happy when I was on the plot yesterday. They're going to have to fend for themselves as I'm sanding for the council, which is a massive job (10 000 leaflets to hand deliver), and I won't have much time to spare till after the election.

Does anyone know anything about that the Americans call 'Perennial Leeks'? It doesn't seem to be Babbington's, but I can't make out what it is.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: goodlife on March 26, 2015, 15:39:43
Code: [Select]
What size do your 'leeks' get to when planted out separately, Goodlife?
They are now starting to thicken up and is almost as thick and average 'normal' leeks.. about 3-4cm across, but not as tall and don't have as much as bare 'neck' as 'normal' leeks.
They are coming to now their peak and have to be used within next couple of months and then they start pushing flower heads and 'young ones' from the base. 
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Ian Pearson on March 26, 2015, 19:50:46
I've had a full bed (12ft by 4ft) of Babington's  growing for three years. I've found that if they are left in a permanent bed with just some mulching and hand weeding, they can be co-grown with a summer crop such as toms, or squashes, without any competition between the crops — since the Babington's die down in early Summer just as the toms are being transplanted out. Then as toms are going past in autumn, the Babington's are coming into growth.
As with most alliums, some wood ash does wonders for bulb size.

By the way, Three-cornered leek is now listed under Schedule 9, meaning that it is an offence to plant it in the wild. It is invasive by seeding, which is assisted by ants moving the seeds around. That said, it is as good as garlic chives, and much earlier to crop.
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on March 27, 2015, 08:41:22

That's very interesting Ian, both parts of your post.  My Babington's are grown in the corner of beds or under bushes (they don't mind).  To double-crop in the way you describe is such an elegant idea.  As you plant the main summer crop in a permanent bed, any bulbs dug out can be used in the kitchen.  There will be plenty in a permanent bed.  I made the mistake of trying to rotate Babington Leek when I started growing them.  Nobody seemed to know about them at that time - rotation was a mistake, or maybe not because I now have 3 areas where I can harvest from.  :sunny:  They do need a permanent spot but they will share or thrive, tucked away, grown as a semi-wild permanent without much attention. 

However you do get bigger plants with a little more tlc and 'mopping up' from high fertiliser demand crops like tomatoes or squash sounds a better growing plan for Babington Leeks than my 'tuck them away and forget about them until harvest'.   :wave:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on December 20, 2015, 10:55:57


Btw...I'm going to sort those 'babies' out over weekend, wrap them up for postie and get them sent for you... :icon_thumleft:
They are bit on the larger side that I would like them to be for transplanting..but they will still take, it just that they might jump into 'baby' production mode in next year...maybe even flowering..


They were planted up and settled in well.  They got bigger in spring, but in late summer they disappeared.  I feared that I had somehow killed them, but after a month or so of dormancy they have now resprouted with near inch thick stems and are looking like proper big leeks.  No splitting yet, but I am hoping they will soon, perhaps early spring.

Just wanted to let you know because this isn't quite like you said, but perhaps it took a bit more time for them to establish.  Needless to say that we have not eaten any yet - and won't before they split.  But they are certainly looking much larger than they did after planting out.   :sunny:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on May 23, 2016, 08:55:48
Well, an update is definitely called for.  I received a wonderful gift of a clump of small leeks from goodlife in December 2014 and planted them.  They got through winter fine and last year 2015 they grew into sizeable leeks.  They have produced no babies apart from one that is tiny and really not ready for being detached.  Currently they are preparing to flower.

I wonder when they will start producing offset 'babies'?  But I will certainly let them flower and harvest the seeds.  I had sort of expected them to make offsets last year, but they just bulked up dramatically.  So much so that I wonder whether they are planted too close and I should have spaced them better.  But I am not moving them now that they are developing flower scapes.

This wild leek remains a mysterious plant.  Having read that they like the milder parts of Britain where they are still hanging on in the wild, I am glad that we had fairly mild winters since I got the plants.  It will be good to have seeds as insurance against colder winters.  Although they survived some cold winters at goodlife's location.

After flowering (unless they start making offset babies) I may need to dig up and move every other plant, in case they need more space to make 'babies'. 

I hope the bulb survives after flowering.  If not, seeds will be very welcome to try again.  :wave:

Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on May 23, 2016, 16:45:41
Here is a photo of the wild leek from goodlife now.   :sunny:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: Jeannine on May 23, 2016, 19:29:50
Oops, I got some from the UK too and thought I had killed them as they seemed to vanish,, I never found out if theycame back as I had to give up my plots.

They are looking great Galina. how do they taste by the way, I have never heard anyone comment on that.

XX Jeannine
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: galina on May 23, 2016, 19:49:47


They are looking great Galina. how do they taste by the way, I have never heard anyone comment on that.

XX Jeannine

Jeannine, I have only just eaten the green tops of some leaves and they tasted just like leek.  :sunny:
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: lezelle on May 24, 2016, 12:29:19
Hi Ya, I have been reading this thread and find it very interesting. I fancy having go at growing some but would like to know where you buy the bulbils from. I have had a look on line and one offered seeds, but I belive they don't grow from seed but from bulbils underground. The other had run out of stock and the last one wanted £5 and by the time they added postage came to £13.50. A bit rich for me. If any one could point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. There does not seem to be a lot of companies selling them but I will do more research myself. Thanks to all and happy gardening
Title: Re: Babington's leek study
Post by: squeezyjohn on May 24, 2016, 13:36:29
Inspired by this thread I have just come back with 4 plants raised from bulbils and lots of other perennial goodies from a nursery in Berkshire called Edulis.  They do quite a few plant fairs and I think they also send mail order.  Nice people.
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