Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: sarah on November 05, 2009, 18:36:45
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I was passing a large field today, which last season grew sweetcorn, and noticed that it was full of a new crop. It was definitely a brassica but I could not say what beyond that. What surprised me was how closely spaced the crop was. The plants were about six to eight inches high and covered the ground pretty tightly with no sace at all between them. I know when I grow brassicas I have to be careful how close I space them for various reasons and I wondered why it doesn't work the same way on farmed land.
I wondered if it was a green manure or whether farmers do grow things very close.
what do you think?
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My OH is a farmers daughter so I have learnt a few of the basics of farming.
The first crop would probably been maze for cattle feed not sweetcorn.
Farmers do grow things as close as possible, the more they grow the more money they make.
They do this by adding fertilizers, pesticides ect in a very scientific way, normally have advisers.
If they are only 6-8 inches high, would have thought they had more growing to do so would exspect some gaps, and I can't think what it could be at the moment so maybe a green manure.
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stuble turnips at this time of year is an option, which is used to feed sheep.
Autumn rape can also be that high by now, and will look as though its covering the field
any option of getting a photo?
mat
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definately OSR, (oil seed rape) ;)
good for honey bees !!
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good for honey bees
OSR can be terrible if you have asthma. When my daughter was at junior school more then half the class became ill when it was in flower. Some were very ill indeed. Pollen gives me terrible problems with my eyes.
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Only thing I know about rape is it give my OH bad hayfeaver when in flower, so I had a little google to learn a little more.
Came accross a website that is a good example of what farmers do......
Production Cycle for Oilseed rape
Oilseed rape
Early August - Cultivations in preparation for drilling. May include subsoiling and correcting for any lime deficiency.
Late August - Drilling into a fine seedbed free of trash and then rolled. Pre-emergence herbicide follows as soon as possible.
September - Slug Pellets if required and autumn nitorgen if required.
October - Control of grass weeds, aphids and flea beetle.
November - Autumn fungicide application.
February - Compound fertiliser application according to requirement.
March - Spring Nitrogen with added sulphur as per crop requirement.
April - Pollen beetle control and stem extension fungicides. Additional nitrogen as required.
May - Flowering fungicdes and control of seed weevil and pod midge.
Early July - Dessication with glyphosate.
Late July - Harvest.
http://www.ukagriculture.com/production_cycles/oilseed_rape_production_cycle.cfm (http://www.ukagriculture.com/production_cycles/oilseed_rape_production_cycle.cfm)
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thats all very interesting. they do grow lots of OSR in these parts. is it a brassica?
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Certainly a brassica, plants almost identical with broccoli. Same yellow flowers. Plants grow quite large. When they are grow across a footpath they are a real struggle to get past.
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in that case i pretty sure that is what it must be. its right next to the woodland burial site where my mum is buried so that'll be fun for all the hayfever sufferers that visit. not.
glad i (you) worked out what it was though as it was bugging me. thanks for your help. :D
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Hi all, I thought it was just me :o I think oilseed rape is horrible stuff and best avoided. In the summer theres so much pollen I can taste it in the back of my throat in the evenings and it stinks. In the city centre! miles from any fields. If I`m out in the country I can tell when I`m approaching fields of it. I don`t have any diagnosed hay fever or asthma or allergies but I can really sympathise with those who do. It also turns up in the road verges when it escapes from the fields. I think someone on this forum wrote that it was responsible for the rise in flea beetle.
I think it shows some problems with monocuture farming.
Rant over, thankyou for reading, Col ;D
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When they kill the rape the symptoms are even worse. I rememeber a friend of ours some years ago telling us that he was watching a farmer putting the cows away and when asked why he said that it was because the rape seed was going to be sprayed to kill it. No mention of it to the hundreds of houses around the place
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why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!
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I didn't realise until I was told. Where we live the smell is dreadful on the day that they do spray.
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Spring-sown rape ripens unevenly and must generally be dessicated or swathed a week or two before harvesting to ensure ripeness of all the seedpods. Both methods kill the plants to allow ripening to continue without further growth or maturation – dessication is achieved by chemical means (generally Diquat spray), swathing is a mechanical alternative.. This quote is from"Tracing Paper Org" Had to look it up to make sure that I had it right
When I googled Diquat I found out that it is a contact herbicide
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if you folk are really interested in large-scale agriculture, and all the problems it causes.
watch this film,
http://milledrive.com/videos/29660/Food
And when you've sat and watched it, perhaps you'll appreciate what the soil association is trying to do, and why we don't 'do' processed food or Monsanto.
(rant over)
Happy eating!!
rgds, Tony ;)
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I thought they generally used glyphosate as a dessicant these days....it allows them to drill in something else immediately after they've harvested..... THough I guess if they're not going to drill something in straightt away diquat will supress stuff for a while afterwards too.... another reason that farmers used pelleted seeds is so that the pellet can stop some herbicides killing the seedlings I guess....
chrisc
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wow, another 100 views, not 1 comment!! ???
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i haven't had a chance to have a look at the film yet (its an hour and half long) but I will do. its a huge subject and off the top of my head i would say that modern farming practices are detrimental to lots of areas of life including our own health and that of the countryside and its wildlife. but i am not well educated on these matters and i know its a controversial area. i will watch it though.
generally i steer clear of processed foods where possible but would be lying if i said i actively made a point of checking the source of every ingredient in the food i buy. like i said, huge subject.
my OP was really just wondering what that crop was. ;)
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Tonybloke,
Very good film but with us guys you're talking to the converted.
Modern kids think spagetti grows on trees & meat comes from 'Macsh*te'.
That's the problem. HFW tried, where has that now disappeared to? The recession - nah! The growth in sales of preprepared food in supermarkets shows that, generally, people don't give a d**n, as long as it's quick/little effort. There's more important things to do like watching Eastenders or playing computer games.
No wonder the populace is FAT!
We're OK though guys. At least we know what we're eating?
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Where or what in does the rape seed harvest end up.
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Where or what in does the rape seed harvest end up.
Anything that contains vegable oil, you can buy it, find it next to the sunflower oil in the supermarket.
If you have a diesel car, then a little goes in the tank and probably in animal feed as well.
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To me it's a useless crop (OSR) I do all I can to avoid it because I can tell when it flowers without even seeing it and I have to avoid food it's added to because it makes me ill.
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Thanks for the reply. I don't think I buy anything with it in. I use lard for frying and only butter for other things even cakes. Olive oil for other things.
I too get a sore throat when it is in bloom.
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I dont know whether OSR has caused a rise in flea beetle - aren't they a pain everywhere? They do increase the pollen beetles which is tough if you grow sweet peas. As a former teacher I had to abandon a yellow painted classroom because the pollen beetles went for the yellow walls and then made myself and the kids start itching.....and I had been telling them off for fidgeting!
They also increase the number of cabbage root flies. Round here if you don't protect summer brassicas with collars the entire crop will keel over.
For a beekeeper it is a mixed blessing. It does produce a lot of nectar but the honey has to be taken off the hive quickly and spun out of the comb otherwise it sets like concrete. It then has to have special treatment to break up the granules and produce creamed honey.
The bees will ignore other sources if OSR is around so tough if you want your fruit trees pollinating. At one location I keep bees there is a wood full of bluebells in spring. However sometimes local farmers put OSR as a break crop. If they do it next year then it will be no woodland honey.
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how many hives have you got? (I got a couple)
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I have four, plus two empties. We need to increase the profile of beekeeping here!
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I'm all for that... don't keep them myself. Perhaps a sub-thread like Chillies in edibles? :-\
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yes david, that would be a good idea, a sub-thread in 'kept animals' (even though they are insects)
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I think a bee keeping thread would be a great idea too. Maybe you should mention it to the new mods.
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[why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!]
They spray it with a systemic weed killer such as roundup or hoedown,
which kills off the rape, and speeds up the drying prosess.
They then harvest the pods only.
the rest is usless and will not rot down therefore must be burnt.
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[why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!]
They spray it with a systemic weed killer such as roundup or hoedown,
which kills off the rape, and speeds up the drying prosess.
They then harvest the pods only.
the rest is usless and will not rot down therefore must be burnt.
farmers plough the stems in, they ain't allowed to burn stuff any more!! ;)
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Problem is, straw etc sits in the fields a while before it's ploughed in. Meanwhile, it rots, often by fungal decay. If you kick a heap of dry, rotten straw or hay it releases a great cloud of fungal spores. These cause asthma. We had an expert on pollination speaking to our local Beekeepers' Association the other week, and he had been involved in identifying the specific pollens causing hay fever. He worked with people doing similar stuff with spores, so I asked him about the increase in asthma since I was at school. They're suggesting that a lot of it is due to rotting straw in the autumn filling the air with spores.
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[why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!]
They spray it with a systemic weed killer such as roundup or hoedown,
which kills off the rape, and speeds up the drying prosess.
They then harvest the pods only.
the rest is usless and will not rot down therefore must be burnt.
[farmers plough the stems in, they ain't allowed to burn stuff any more!! ;)
]
in theory but not in practice
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[why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!]
They spray it with a systemic weed killer such as roundup or hoedown,
which kills off the rape, and speeds up the drying prosess.
They then harvest the pods only.
the rest is usless and will not rot down therefore must be burnt.
[farmers plough the stems in, they ain't allowed to burn stuff any more!! ;)
]
in theory but not in practice
have you seen farmers burning stubble?
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[why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!]
They spray it with a systemic weed killer such as roundup or hoedown,
which kills off the rape, and speeds up the drying prosess.
They then harvest the pods only.
the rest is usless and will not rot down therefore must be burnt.
[farmers plough the stems in, they ain't allowed to burn stuff any more!! ;)
]
in theory but not in practice
have you seen farmers burning stubble?
Not since I was a kid, no...
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Unfortunately, us new moddlies don't have the authority to create a new board or sub-board so I can't help out there. The only thing I can do is create a sticky topic of bee keeping in the wildlife (or relevant) section but I'm not sure if that's any good?
:)
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how many hives have you got? (I got a couple)
I have 5 but one will die out. i have 4 strong colonies going into the winter. The 5th was given to me and was a mongrel race. i think they were British black bees/Pit Bull. They were ferocious and i decided to find the unmarked queen and requeen which was difficult as they used to go up my cuffs into my veil. One day they swarmed and after my initial shock I thought "good riddance" as they headed for the woods.
I checked for queen cells and ordered a new queen, but they killed her. I did not want the offspring of that hive and I was not going to risk my other queens by combining so I am letting them die out.
I lost my original colony last winter. I bought two in June, collected a small swarm and have built up a very small cast that just turned up in my garden. So they have eaten a lot of sugar but not much honey yet.
I have two carniolan hives at home cause they are nice and I can garden round them. I have two black bee colonies that I have on a farm --too defensive for home.
On my allotment i want to get some Italians cause they are gentle. I don't have to worry about neighbours but i need bees that I can garden around. I plan to use frames of my Carniolans and buy in the queens.
We need a thread on bees and allotments. it got quite heated on a beekeeping forum.
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i have asked for a beekeping thread on the 'website suggestions', and I think we may get a 'sticky thread' on the 'kept animals' section. :)
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Those sound like hybrids, Tony. Reasonably pure native bees are known for gentleness (one reason why I keep them), but crossed with Italians or Carniolans, you can get some ferocious colonies. They can easily look black, as that's the way natural selection pushes bees in our climate, but that doesn't mean very much.
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[why do they spray it to kill it? don't they just cut it?
didn't realise how much i didn't know about rape!]
They spray it with a systemic weed killer such as roundup or hoedown,
which kills off the rape, and speeds up the drying proses.
They then harvest the pods only.
the rest is usless and will not rot down therefore must be burnt.
[farmers plough the stems in, they ain't allowed to burn stuff any more!! ;)
]
in theory but not in practice
[have you seen farmers burning stubble?]
yes tony bloke a have.
these stems don't rot for years so up in smoke they go .
they also blame it on the youths ov to day which is the easiest option.
poor farmers.
so many thousand pounds for [waterlogged setaside] so much for water logged corn
drowned potatoes. all subsidised
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Thanks Geoff, :) Hi all, :)
I don`t think I know what pollen beetles are but I accept the idea that creating a monoculture creates a home for some pest or another which then spreads out.
And the thing about fungal spores in straw, this is also true of stacked leaves or woodchips and a seasonal reminder to us all, .. Take care folks.
Col
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Robert_Brenchley the spores do not cause asthma they cause asthma attacks.
asthma is related to lung function and has a genetic basis.
the reason they let straw dry in fields is if you do not dry straw correctly before you bale it.
it will rot in storage and possibly start a fire.