Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: kt. on January 03, 2007, 12:27:06
-
Which are best?
I have always used open ground but have contemplated idea of raised beds this past year but never had any dealings with them. From a comment on the clip of Grow Your Own Veg' a debate has been raised on this issue so I thought I would offer this thread for opinions from all. Apparently crop can be better in beds with less disease & weeds but I dint really know as I have never compared.
What is their minimum depth of raised beds to be?
Is it better to mulch beds or leave open?
What is best left out of beds and on open ground?
What are the disadvantages & advantages of raised beds against open ground?
What is the work ratio comparison?
After this, lets see who decides to build raised beds or removes them this year....
Who's' mind can be swayed ::)
-
Gordon helped me build 4 raised beds in the Autumn so the coming season will, hopefully, keep my short rows of veggies tidy and more prolific if the amount of either horse poo or farmyard manure used to help raise the soil levels is anything to go by ;). My space is so tiny and the raised beds make that space look much neater - so far I'm happy with the result - especially as we got the wood for free from Freecycle ;D ;D.
Tricia
-
raised beds every time
makes planning so much easier especially if you have a bed per crop.
Easier to weed, water, dig, net etc IMO
Ive almost got all my allotment into beds or bordered areas. Just waiting on more materials
downside if you use wood you're gonna encourage slugs.
I dont think anyone with raised beds would remove them but ohers opinions might stop them being built
-
Do you have to change soil in raised beds or is crop rotation suffice?
-
I started off with wooden raised beds last year, which was a brilliant way to get started, but the problem was that that as I had only dug the 8x4 space for the beds the paths needed constant hoeing to keep back the horsetail. I also dug a much larger space for corn, squash and beans which worked well.
This year I will keep the raised beds, but for items such as brassicas - the wooden edges make securing the netting/mesh/fleece easier and also for the carrots and strawbs for the same reason but I am also going to try an open system for the pots (although I might grow these in tubs to foil the pesky eel worm) peas, corn etc.
With the beds, I am laying ground cover with a woodchip mulch on top to suppress the weeds.
So I think the answer is whatever works best for you, with or without edges and you will probably find that your system evolves over time.
One thing that I will continue with are the black Morrison tubs with the bottoms cut off. I used those for the Toms, they were in the ground but off the ground, so much harder for the slugs and easier to weed around and water/feed.
-
Do you have to change soil in raised beds or is crop rotation suffice?
You don't need to change the soil but (just as in open ground) you do need to feed it with mulches etc and have a good crop rotation pattern. Remember, raised beds are open at the bottom, so you'll still get all the worms and micro-beasties working away at the soil. :)
-
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2733/dscf0007or9.th.jpg) (http://img515.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0007or9.jpg)
these are some of the raised beds on our plot
we just keep adding stuff to them, raising as we go
(http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6655/dscf0013hc0.th.jpg)[/URL
(http://img220.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscf0013hc0.jpg)
-
definitely raised beds for me - we made ours out of old scaffolding planks and they cost about £100 in total and are very easy to make (I say this as I was reading a garden catalogue today where they were selling one 4' x 4' bed for £80+!) - I had to take 3 months off the lottie late last year due to family illness and other things and was dreading seeing it as I thought it'd be out of control - but no, my lovely raised beds have kept everything neat, we had covered the paths with weed suppressing material so all we'll have to do is sort the beds out, the advantage of beds is it breaks the lottie down into manageable chunks so even if you've only got an hour, it's enough to make a difference. I didn't notice any major slug problem either compared with open ground.
-
Nice thread!
In the Netherlands I have never seen raised beds as far as I can recall.
At least at my complex, everybody is growing their vegetables in beds in open ground (why is non-raised called open ground?) and so am I.
I feed the ground with compost, manure and other goodies (my beds are slightly higher than my paths in spring, but level in autumn) and I rotate my crops to prevent diseases. I do not see the benefits of raised beds.
Anybody able to convince me?
-
By and large I think raised beds are more mental than practical.
They make the plot look neat and manageable and of more practical use stop you from treading on the soil.
On the down side they make working more awkward and involve a lot of set up.
Raised beds will improve drainage - we have some that we use for herbs but given the summer we have just had we wouldnt want to sharpen the drainage any further than we have already for normal vegatables.
An allotmenteer at our site has built a huge number of raised beds - well not even raised, more picture framed, including some that are 2' square and contain 1 comfrey plant! , in the meantime about 1/3 of their plot has never been cultivated and is a continual nuisance. I think the style of the raised beds is often a bigger factor than the practicality, 'gardening out of a magazine' was how an allotment stalwart described it.
So in essence I think it is better to think about your particular needs – drainage, back trouble etc and plan from there, in any event for potatoes, sweetcorn, cucurbits and beans open ground is nearly always best.
Baz.
-
I know what you mean, but 3 months under water, no other land available, so, raised beds ;D
-
does it make much difference to the temp of the soil, ie do raised beds warm up any quicker than open ground? it's just that my plot's at the bottom of a gentle slope and my neighbours tell me that their plots take much longer to warm up than those at the top of the slope. if I plant in raised beds will the frost "run off" onto the paths?
-
Not sure if raised beds would make a lot of difference to the temperature, unless the level is at the same level of the top of the slope, which might be a bit hard to achieve.
Started here with raised beds bordered with wood about 6 to 8 " above the natural level, because the plots flood badly, and really it was the only way to start growing anything without it drowning. Also dug ditches about a foot deep right around the plot - looked like a moat!
Started taking the wood out after five years, as adding compost from kitchen waste and horse muck had managed to build up the level of the soil so much that the wooden edging wasn't necessary and it does drain fairly well in most places. Also I'd only used untreated pallet wood and it had started to rot.
Have sort of slightly mounded open beds instead now, only in the places that need them.
I found the framed raised beds frustrating, as you can't dig them very well (I know they are supposed to be no-dig ;D) and felt that too much of the area was being devoted to paths in between them rather than actually growing things, but don't know how I'd have managed without them at the beginning.
-
An unexpected benefit of raised beds...
I have two young helpers (3 and 7) who in warmer weather often bring with them friends from school etc. It is so much easier to say to them all "stay on our plot and keep to the paths" than to shadow them at every turn, worrying about what they'll tread on by accident.
Especially in the weeks to come as tender seedlings just start to show their heads for the first time. :)
-
does it make much difference to the temp of the soil, ie do raised beds warm up any quicker than open ground?
not a definitive answer:
your neighbours may be in a frost pocket where the cold air 'pours' down a slope
uncompacted soil warms faster than compacted soil
mulching slows up warming, especially light coloured mulch
the South side of a mounded bed grows plants faster than the North facing side
I tried angling beds towards the South last year, but it wasn't very successful - now I have them as flat as possible (in the hot summer, I put lettuce seedlings along the North facing side)
around February I'll cover beds for early planting with black plastic sheets to help them warm up
:)
-
Triffid,
I completley agree with you on the subject of "young helpers"! The beds on my plot are edged for that very reason. They're the same level as the paths but having a physical barrier mean that my two (6 & 4) are always aware of where they can and can't walk. I started off with lots of long, narrow beds on my plan but am now changing them to larger edged beds as I need more growing room.
Tabbycat
-
I have just made one raised bed I will use for carrots and possibly raddish and pak choi. My idea is I can fill with mixture of compost, sand and soil (stone free). I am going to cover with flleece or possibly enviromesh ( to keep out flea beetle form raddish and pak choi. The idea being the depth and lack of stones will allow the carrots to grow reasonably deeply and cleanly and not be damaged / forked by stones. The problem may be crop rotation as I will only have one raised bed - its all trial and error.
-
raised beds rule!!
currently working out a way of fitting into the beds porus piping fed from my waterbuts to help with summer planting which includes cut offs so i can isolate beds if not planted and i have ordered perlite which will aid drainage ( heavy clay & free green box compost )
the pipe is a project for next year when i raise the beds from 1\2 foot to a ful foot ( not so much bending in my back :-) )
go for it ;D
-
currently working out a way of fitting into the beds porus piping fed from my waterbuts to help with summer planting which includes cut offs so i can isolate beds if not planted and i have ordered perlite which will aid drainage
Keep us informed on how you do with this project. Should be interresting
-
nope i think the word is EXPENSIVE ;D
-
I am a non-raised bedder. I attempt to use almost all of the workable ground of both of my plots, so by the end of the summer, there are no paths as such, more stepping stones. I am constantly growing more things than I have planting areas for, so I need to fork over paths.
I also have sprogs (6 and 7), so I can really see the benefit of having proper paths that they can keep to. Mine don't accompany that often in spring as I go when they are at school, so come summer when harvesting and they are with me, I am not so worried about where they are treading, and for me, it is all part of them learning what is what, where they can walk and not and so on.
I was reading Grow Your Own mag, sub from the inlaws gave me for my birthday, and I read a letter about using tanalised timber for edging raised beds. The chemicals used are copper, chromium and arsenic. The arsenic will slowely leach into the soil and in turn, into the veg. They suggest planting veg at least 1 foot away from any timber.
-
I would prefer just to use none-tanalised wood. Makes a mockery of supposed organic approaches. Only my point of view of course, I burned the soap box a long time ago !!!
Derek
-
We've had some interesting discussions on raised beds in the past so if you hunt through the A4A archives, you'll find many points of view. I'm most definitely in favour, given a) back trouble b) sloping site (you can terrace!) and c) easy to cover in winter.
You needn't lose much space to paths: the books I read said to make them wide, for wheelbarrows etc. I ignored this, and made mine approximately 15" wide. My beds are wider than the usually-quoted 4' (1.2m): I went for 5' instead (1.5m). So I get a very high crop density for not much space lost. Oh, and I can still get a wheelbarrow down to them - the wheel goes in the path, and the rear legs drop into the beds each side!
some previous discussions on them:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,22226.0
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,18312.0
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,20715.0
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,10503.0
and a couple I started:
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,19371.0
http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,28/topic,24270.0
moonbells
-
The raised beds do look nice and ordered. But none of the arguments can convince me to sway from open ground to raised beds.
- Drainage: I grow on sand. Do need to add compost and other stuff, but flooding?small chance.
- Levelling: In the Netherlands??? Although I grow in an area called (literal translation) Utrecht hill ridge, you Brits would still consider this flat. And rightly so.
- To prevent back from aching: No experience yet, but can imagine that this might one day become a valid argument.
- To prevent kids from trampling the vegs: I'm with EJ. They are not often there when there are seedlings. Come harvest time, they need to learn what is what and to be careful with their potential food.
My main argument against raised beds is the one EJ mentioned: I just want to grow more than I've got space for!
So every year I make a proper lay out with beds and paths. And at the beginning June, when even the tropical stuff goes outdoors, my beds are brimming and I need to broaden my beds. My paths become more narrow and I sometimes lose the path and end up with stepping stones.
-
That's the nice thing about lotties - everyone does things to suit themselves. And one person's argument for would quite easily be another's argument against.
I'd love a flat plot with sandy soil to grow fantastic carrots and parsnips on! But the grass (or brassica! ;D ) is always greener on the other side. We have what we have, and make it work somehow.
moonbells
-
My plot is divided into an even 4 quarters for planting at the moment. Paving / patio slabs and sleepers make the paths for this. This is good for working out ground areas for crop rotation. The only beds I have at the moment are for strawberries. May do some for carrots but gonna try out the ground first.