Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: SteveH on March 23, 2009, 22:05:22
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Hi,
I am new here (first post). I'm in the UK (Wales actually) and am thinking to get an allotment (*). Daft not to really - we have them right behind our house ... like RIGHT behind our house and accessible through our garden!
Trouble is, I don't know where to start!!! :-\
It's March now - can I start one up now? Or rather, is it worth starting one up now ... or maybe better to wait until some other season? I'd like to start soon-ish to ease myself in with some good weather to work in.
Also, I am not blessed with green fingers so am something of a novice there too (but I guess we all start somewhere). So I'd need something fairly simple at first (also, something with a quick return and not something that won't be ready until, say, November - that would be quite de-motivating for a total newbie!).
Some details on the allotments behind us...
Nasty, nasty, thick clay soil that can break industrial rotivators!!!
On a very exposed hill that gets a fair bit of rain down it during wet weather and a nasty wind that blows down it when it's blowy.
It's a successful field though and there are some great allotments there growing fantastic stuff. Here are some photos taken recently in the snow.
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/100_0733.JPG)
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/100_0739.JPG)
That's our garden fence at the top of our garden in the second one with the allotments directly behind.
So what I am thinking is...
Turn the top of the plot over roughly, cover with a porous membrane (to prevent the weeds and nettles, etc., polluting from below) and place raised beds (maybe a foot high) on top (some frame filled with good topsoil) and plant in that. I don't know if this would be deep enough! I know this may seem a bit nonsey to you hard core growers but I can assure you that I am unlikely to persevere if I have to spend two back breaking months making good the concrete clay that's there before I can even drop a seed in there! :-\
Lots of questions - sorry!
To recap...
1. Is now a good time to start an allotment?
2. What quick yield, easy stuff can be planted now?
3. Would 1' raised beds of topsoil work?
Thanks for any suggestions/advice.
Steve
(*) We already DO have an allotment actually - the top of our garden. The allotment people were quite happy for us to use the plot right behind our existing garden to extend it and allowed us to fence it and lay it to lawn. frankly, it was in their best interests because the plot had gone to rack and ruin and was a mess and THEY were having to keep it clear so we saved them a job.
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Hi Steve and Welcome to the site... ;D
Now is a great time to start...
fast returns are all "rabbit" food eg salads, lettuce, radish spring onions...
In terms of starters though grab some onion sets from somewhere and bung them in... and some seed potatoes. If the spuds are described as earlies you will get them by the end of July at the latest, onions straight after into August and Beans about the same time, runners and French but you can't start them yet... still too cold.
A raised bed is a good idea for the fancier stuff like French beans but onion sets and spuds will cope with all but pipe clay. If it is that bad cover it with a layer of topsoil/manure and plant into that...
Enjoy... ;D
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Welcome to the site.
If I were you I would just go for it. No time like the present. You don't need to do it all at once, just a bit at a time or you will get overfaced.
This site is a mine of information. I ask really basic questions all the time.
When I got my allotment, it was quite good already so I was lucky but I wanted to break it down into beds. I made each section about 5ft wide and made paths from old bricks. Bit by bit I have it all done now.
I have improved my yield each year. I am hoping I get a lot of stuff this year with the credit crunch. 8)
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Hi Steve and Welcome to the site... ;D
Thanks :D
Now is a great time to start...
fast returns are all "rabbit" food eg salads, lettuce, radish spring onions...
Just what I wanted to hear! I am thinking to work into this slowly, quietly and gently over the summer and get results I can stick on our plates - break me in gently to the delights. FWIW, this is a big problem for would be 'lotties'... the thought of busting your back and having nothing to show for it (other than blisters and a plot of soil!) and then waiting 8 months before you see anything. I am sure many give up on the idea as a result.
Rabbit food sounds perfect (and we love the salad here).
In terms of starters though grab some onion sets from somewhere and bung them in... and some seed potatoes. If the spuds are described as earlies you will get them by the end of July at the latest, onions straight after into August and Beans about the same time, runners and French but you can't start them yet... still too cold.
IC. Thanks
A raised bed is a good idea for the fancier stuff like French beans but onion sets and spuds will cope with all but pipe clay. If it is that bad cover it with a layer of topsoil/manure and plant into that...
It really is bad. When we took the plot that extended our garden we needed to hire a JCB - nothing else would touch it (however, that plot had fallen into severe disrepair after MANY years of neglect)!!! :o
But of course, assuming I go ahead with this, it depends on the plot I get. There are some vacant ones very close to us - I might have a wander across tomorrow and see what they're like. Maybe they've been tilled over already (we've had a few plots where people start off, give their plot a seeing to but give up quickly so maybe some grunt work has been done).
Anyway, as well as your helpful reply, I've been having a trawl around here and found this:
http://www.thegardenersalmanac.co.uk/Data/Allotments/Introduction.htm
Very informative.
Also some other great info in other posts here.
Thanks for your prompt response!
Cheers,
Steve
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also, something with a quick return and not something that won't be ready until, say, November -
What's up with the youngsters of today? Can you not even plan to eat in 6 months time?
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Ok...
Another dumb question (well - two actually)...
Was listening to Gardener's Question Time on R4 recently (at least I think it was that - could have been some other R4 programme) and it was suggested to buy, say, lettuce, etc., that had already been started - i.e. in pots - rather than from seeds. If I remember correctly, it was to answer a numpty like me about getting started. It made sense to me. How does it strike the more experienced here?
Also, I was listening to another programme some weeks ago (again R4). It was at some potato growers convention and they were talking about spuds, etc., and some grower there said that it is so easy to grow your own spuds ... just grab any sprouting taters and chuck 'em in a bucket of compost and they'll grow into nice, fresh spuds! Assuming that to be true, could I just chuck a bag of sprouting greengrocer-bought King Edwards into the soil and get a crop? I have a cupboard full of them!
Or have I just revealed the depth of my numptiness?!! :-\
Cheers,
Steve
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What's up with the youngsters of today? Can you not even plan to eat in 6 months time?
:D
It's all I can do to plan what to have for lunch!
I am 51 BTW. Does that classify as 'youngster'?!
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Ok...
Another dumb question (well - two actually)...
Was listening to Gardener's Question Time on R4 recently (at least I think it was that - could have been some other R4 programme) and it was suggested to buy, say, lettuce, etc., that had already been started - i.e. in pots - rather than from seeds. If I remember correctly, it was to answer a numpty like me about getting started. It made sense to me. How does it strike the more experienced here?
Also, I was listening to another programme some weeks ago (again R4). It was at some potato growers convention and they were talking about spuds, etc., and some grower there said that it is so easy to grow your own spuds ... just grab any sprouting taters and chuck 'em in a bucket of compost and they'll grow into nice, fresh spuds! Assuming that to be true, could I just chuck a bag of sprouting greengrocer-bought King Edwards into the soil and get a crop? I have a cupboard full of them!
Or have I just revealed the depth of my numptiness?!! :-\
Cheers,
Steve
Hello Steve,
I'm as new to this as you.
I planted my first Potatoes yesterday and after talking to a couple of the experienced plot holders they mentioned that King Edwards were susceptible to worms (they're a main crop).
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Maybe citing King Edwards as an example wasn't ideal....
I meant 'sprouting spuds in general' - i.e. can you just chuck some sprouting spuds in the soil and expect anything?
Steve
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How lucky you are to have allotments next to your back garden
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Yes Steve... you can just throw in any "sprouting" spuds and they will grow... but it is discouraged as they can be carrying diseases and seed pots are certified "clean".
If 51 is young I'm feeling really good as I'm only 47and three quarters...
Get a couple of cheap windowboxes and some compost, a packet of "salad leaf" mix and you can be cutting food within a two weeks-month... not quite as quick as the "mustard and cress" on the window sill but almost!!
;D
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You can improve a clay soil by digging in masses of organic matter, but it takes time. Grab it while it's there. The next question is, how weedy is it? You've got plenty of time to break at least some of it in. Get the plot, let's see some pics, and worry about the next stage then.
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Sounds like a great arrangement, Steve.
Couldn't agree more with Robert about organic matter to break down clay soil. I've tried gypsum and sharp sand on small areas of my heavy London Clay but this is expensive and really only suitable for small sections. Loads of manure or compost will eventually turn your clay into a rich loam. Spuds are also a good way of breaking down the soil in the first year of a new allotment - again, speaking from fairly recent personal experience.
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Take the allotment!! How lucky to have it in your back garden!
I have an area that is heavy clay so I put around wood to make it raised, and then made a lasagna bed, the soil this year is fab! (Did it is my back garden too over lawn)
http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm (http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm)
Dont think you have to race in and cultivate everywhere! It is best to do small areas, dig in loads of organic matter, plant it up and move on to another area which you have had covered to help keep the weeds down. I found when I started on my wilderness, it was nice to see something we could eat growing! :D
A chap on our plot just covered his whole bed with cardboard, then a load of manure, and then straw, he does the straw n manure every year and it has given him the best soil on the plot for very little effort!
Good luck with whatever you grow!!
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Well, encouraged by these replies and other stuff read here, I took the bull by the horn and got in touch with the allotments people this morning to grab my plot.
Right.... I am here, my office window at the back of the house overlooking the site and I can see empty, vacant, derelict plots everywhere. There are three right next to the back of our garden:
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/100_0768.jpg)
I haven't seen anyone on these plots for at least a year ... or more ... there's one out of shot that's even closer and more convenient that hasn't been worked for two years or more!
And I am told that I am now 54th on the list and MAY be eligible for one in a year or two ... if I am lucky! Say WHAT?!! I am overlooking the field every day and there's no activity at these plots at all!!! :-\
Time to get devious and make enquiries through the back door I reckon!!
I think I can see what's happening here - people are paying their subs every year but aren't actually working their plots ::)
I wonder how many keen and eager would-be 'lotties' are waiting and waiting and waiting for plots who are being prevented from getting started (and giving up) because some officious official's 'computer says "NO"' (to paraphrase Little Britain)!!!
Sorry - I am ranting here here now but judging from the state of the various abandoned plots directly behind me that I can see with my own two eyes, I thought they'd be all over me to take a plot on, maybe even offering a BOGOFF ... "No - please take two plots sir". Not so!
Hmmmmm! And harrumph!
More news anon!
Steve
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54th... that's ridiculous on a site like that... Sadly the half with the shed isn't available... must be half a plot behind, which is being worked. Rant, rant... just going to 'phone someone to offer one of ours... :-X
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Here's an aerial shot (from my profile).
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/allotments_aerial.jpg)
I don't know when the satellite photo was taken but that's how the site's been for over a year or more.
The area in orange is our garden plot (which we share with next door who's a keen gardener). The yellow area is an access road but the blue area shows the derelict plots.
This is what I fancied (highlighted in purple) :
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/allotments_aerial2.jpg)
Which would (obviously) be perfect. And given the state of dereliction there, I thought the allotments people would be like "When can you start?" like they did when we relieved Plot 1.
But no :-\
Steve
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Have you told the council that there are several unused and overgrown? Ask them why and of they say it's been winter tell them you live opposite and they've not been worked for years, push!!
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Have you told the council that there are several unused and overgrown? Ask them why and of they say it's been winter tell them you live opposite and they've not been worked for years, push!!
Oh! Don't worry - I am going to be on them like the proverbial whatsit on some other proverbial whatsit!
It was quite surreal on the phone this morning....
"If you want to register your interest in a plot, I can put you on the waiting list but I can tell you that the plots there are all subscribed and so it could be a year or more before you qualify"
And I'm like ...
"What!!!??? I am currently looking out of the window at the very plots you're talking about and four of them in my immediate view haven't been worked for at least a year, maybe more!"
"Well, all I can say is that they are fully subscribed and there is a waiting list"
"But this is insane" I say. "They are derelict and gone to waste. I am looking at them now!"
"All the plots are taken sir"
Computer says "no" ::)
Gonna use inside contacts over there now. >:(
But I wonder how many people are being given the run around like this all over the UK being told they have to wait a year or two or more when plots are lying derelict!? :-\
Hmmmmm....
Steve
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You have the same problem as most allotment sites steve. People pay a very small fee for a plot then leave it unworked and untidy. Allotment committees and councils should be alot harder on plot holders. They should have regular inspections and if they find the plot not being used take it away. Shape up or ship out. Firm but fair.
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Hi Steve, you just have to keep badgering and pestering these people so they get tired of hearing from you and hope they give in to you. There are site rules that state you have to tend a certain percentage of your plot they can't just pay their rent and just not tend it, speak to the site Secretary or committee and find out what the score is. ;D ;D ;D
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the council run lotties have said they have a waiting list but I won't have to wait to long. Yet a work m8 says there are a couple that need work on them ::) I will be having a look tommorrow then going back to the town hall
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Hi,
I am new here (first post). I'm in the UK (Wales actually) and am thinking to get an allotment (*). Daft not to really - we have them right behind our house ... like RIGHT behind our house and accessible through our garden!
Trouble is, I don't know where to start!!! :-\
It's March now - can I start one up now? Or rather, is it worth starting one up now ... or maybe better to wait until some other season? I'd like to start soon-ish to ease myself in with some good weather to work in.
Also, I am not blessed with green fingers so am something of a novice there too (but I guess we all start somewhere). So I'd need something fairly simple at first (also, something with a quick return and not something that won't be ready until, say, November - that would be quite de-motivating for a total newbie!).
Some details on the allotments behind us...
Nasty, nasty, thick clay soil that can break industrial rotivators!!!
On a very exposed hill that gets a fair bit of rain down it during wet weather and a nasty wind that blows down it when it's blowy.
It's a successful field though and there are some great allotments there growing fantastic stuff. Here are some photos taken recently in the snow.
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/100_0733.JPG)
(http://www.hollowsun.com/allotment/100_0739.JPG)
That's our garden fence at the top of our garden in the second one with the allotments directly behind.
So what I am thinking is...
Turn the top of the plot over roughly, cover with a porous membrane (to prevent the weeds and nettles, etc., polluting from below) and place raised beds (maybe a foot high) on top (some frame filled with good topsoil) and plant in that. I don't know if this would be deep enough! I know this may seem a bit nonsey to you hard core growers but I can assure you that I am unlikely to persevere if I have to spend two back breaking months making good the concrete clay that's there before I can even drop a seed in there! :-\
Lots of questions - sorry!
To recap...
1. Is now a good time to start an allotment?
2. What quick yield, easy stuff can be planted now?
3. Would 1' raised beds of topsoil work?
Thanks for any suggestions/advice.
Steve
(*) We already DO have an allotment actually - the top of our garden. The allotment people were quite happy for us to use the plot right behind our existing garden to extend it and allowed us to fence it and lay it to lawn. frankly, it was in their best interests because the plot had gone to rack and ruin and was a mess and THEY were having to keep it clear so we saved them a job.
Well where do i start have read this thread and noticed two things there is a loop hole in the contract on council aggreements that if they are not working a plot permission to work a plot can be given to a nominated person to attend to the plot . however this means you will have to get friendly with current plotholder who isn't working the plot you want mmm not easy so the next thing is from what i can see you have a nack of a PC take relevent evidence photos ext and support this with a letter to the council if that doesn't work . most sites have an inspection twice yearly first in spring and second in towards the end of summer all that is normally required it to make clean hence strim it down and this is how a lot of people get away with it .
however its hard to get some one off a plot it can take up to three years in my experience to get rid of someone not tending most times a gentle conversation advising the current holder it might be considered to be a little much for them to continue and this is when if on good terms with the current chairperson committee offer to dig for this person and by helping with half might not work but sometimes its enough to shame someone to give it up .
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I'm confused - even if the plots aren't really being worked, and you proved that, wouldn't that just mean the people at the top of the waiting list would/should get first dibs?
Have you thought what might happen if someone gets officious and decides to take back yours and your neighbour's allotments-turned-into-bits-of-garden on the basis that there's now such a big waiting list? It might be safer not to draw attention to yourself and hope they never remember where two of their sought-after lotties have gone!
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Have you been onto the site? Have you talked to anybody working on the allotments?
I would try this, as it is what i did last year. I got talking to someone on my site and they knew of someone who wanted to give up their plot at the end of the year. I got in contact with this person and helped them on their plot. At the end of the year he gave up his plot and because i was the registed helper, and on that allotments' list i got the plot.
I don't know if this is just my site but it seem to be the way some of the older allotment keeps like to give up their plots. It is good for them as they know their plots will still be loved and it good for you as you have our own gardening expert!
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where in sunny wales? I'm Rhondda ;D ;D ;D
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I know quite a few of the lotties there - my young daughter plays over there, helps 'em out sometimes and I wander over as well sometimes and get chatting. Some are neighbours. Most are on good terms with the Secretary (I know him too) therefore bypassing the council somewhat so that's my next course of action. I know the one lady there is kinda winding her three plots down (hubby died recently, she's not as young as she was) so I may have a word with her, maybe gradually take over one of them ... or work one of them with her. She's also an amazing lottie and her plots are fabulous ... or were ... so she could be a great teacher too. We'll see.
To fireflydigger...
Yes - if I blow the whistle on the unused plots, it could backfire and those further up the list will move in before me. However, whilst there may be 53 others with a 'registered interest', it doesn't mean they'll take it if offered - they may have abandoned the idea, whatever. But as I say, I'm gonna kind work from the inside rather than try and break through the brick wall that is the council - that's how we got our plot/garden extension ... by going to the organ grinders and not the monkey!
Also, there is little or no danger of us losing our plot for a variety of reasons. It's all fully paid up, it is beautifully maintained and it is in such a remote part of the whole site that no-one would want it especially as it has a bloody great Hawthorn tree right in the middle!!! It would return to being an overgrown plot of vicious brambles, would once again become a dumping spot for the lotties and the council would have to clear it every year as they did before at not inconsiderable cost - they are chuffed as punch that we maintain it for them and are unlikely to take it from us!!
No - next step is to bypass the council, get to the lotties and the secretary and speak to them. It's how we got our garden plot....
We pestered the council for ages but they weren't having any of it - talk about head ... banging ... brick wall!!! Our neighbour had tried for years before us too with no success. Then, as we found out more about how it all worked, we went straight to the secretary who came to the plot to meet us. We explained what we wanted to do and they said "Sure - why not? You can rent the plot as an allotment and do what you want with it. Submit your plans to us."
So we did and two days later, they wrote and said "Start as soon as you want"! And that was that!
More news anon!
Thanks for all the suggestions and assistance :D
Steve
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where in sunny wales? I'm Rhondda ;D ;D ;D
Kaaaaaadiff like innit boyo! ;)