Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: Unwashed on March 18, 2010, 20:19:25
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Remember I said that the council had told me to take my flag down (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,58366.0.html)? They've told me that the neighbour has not withdrawn their complaint so as things stand it looks like they'll be evicting me on 1st April. I can't believe this is happening. I've been flying a flag for eighteen months, so why complain now, and what kind of neighbour has the influence to tell the council how to apply the allotment rules - either it's breaking the rules or it isn't, so why does it depend on the neighbour withdrawing their complaint? I can't think what to do for the best.
Anywho, in totally unrelated news: My rent protest (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,57222.0.html) is on the front page of the Newbury Weekly News today.
[imghttp://www.emilyware.co.uk/blogs/media/blogs/simon/StGeorgeShed.jpg][/img]
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That's why they're so keen to find an excuse to evict you. They see you as a revolting peasant, probably in both senses of the term. Does the neighbour work for the Council?
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sorry to hear this unwashed,we have about 7 plot holders flying flags on our site, and your sheds fab , hope you can work something out with the council/ shades x
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Cheers Shades.
Robert, the council haven't told me who complained, only that they think the flag and chimbly are an eyesore. I really would have been a lot more sympathetic if they'd told me to my face instead of getting the council involved.
Sorry, screwed up the image link. Here it is again:
(http://www.emilyware.co.uk/blogs/media/blogs/simon/StGeorgeShed.jpg)
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But I thought it had been proved flying a flag on the allotment is not against ANY law in this country? Can you not ask for a meeting with the jobsworth who's telling you you're going to be evicted and have it out with them? Quick phone call to the CAB to confirm? I wouldn't stand for it if I definitely knew the law was on my side. Simply being told it's an 'eyesore' upsetting someone's view would not wash with me! Unwashed, you are a champion of helping other people's causes on here, now it's time to fight for yourself! :)
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Lots of things on allorment sites could be called eyesores, scaffold netting, blue water pipe, weeds, old baths & toilets, brokendown sheds, who decides - your neighbour? Is there are rule in your tenancy that says no eyesores? Take your own advice and make them go to court for a possession order. Theyre trying to intimidate you. Dont let them.
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I think your flag and your shed are FAB!!!!!
I love people who dare to be different what a boring world if we all conform
Fight it Unwashed 'bet you'll find supporters . :)
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Hi SamLouise, there's no need for planning permission to fly a St. George Cross, but that doesn't necessarily mean the council can't make a rule to prevent it. There's a rule that says structures can't be over 8 feet tall, but their examples of structures are sheds and greenhouses. None of fruit cages, compost bins or bean frames are considered to be structures so I don't see how a flag pole can be a structure.
Hi weequinie, I'm inclined to agree with you.
Cheers macmac. The flag thing was in the lcoal free paper this week and a neighbour stopped me in the street yesterday and told me the flag was great and I should keep flying it.
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The chimney and flag are fab. stick to your guns.
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I love your shed, flag and chimbly unwashed and if it was me I wouldn't remove it because someone thinks it an eyesore.
I think they are a picking on you over the rents.
My advice would be to go and take legal advice. In my borough you can go and get free legal advice especially on council matters run by local volunteer solicitors. Hope you have something similar in your area.
I think you have two options here 1) have a meeting with the council and back peddle and knuckle down to want they want from you.........................this would mean letting them do want they want and no disagreements from you over rent increases, removing your flag, wanting to form a society etc OR 2) go get that advice and fight them all the way if the law is on your side.
Good luck
Sinbad
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There is an election due.
Get on to your MP MEP and councillor.
Who runs these councils anyway. THEY are public servants not the other way round.
I agree with SamLouise It is a 'Healer, heal thyself' situation.
Start off with a petition on the site and see who refuses to sign it. It could be a hint of who 'loves you babe'. The comlainant is probably a bully who will also be a coward and face to face will no doubt sign the petition. Thus withdrawing their complaint.......
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Non Illegitimi Carborundum, ;)
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I am sure that this is just an excuse because you are being awkward. I think that your shed and flag look great. There are a huge number of tatty looking sheds in allotments around the country but yours is not one of them.
It does not seem right that one person complains and someone gets an eviction notice.
I agree with Tonybloke. ;)
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Sorry to hear this is still going on Unwashed. What rules are they quoting for evicting you? Also does anyone on your site or in Newbury fly a flag on their allotment - if so then the rules (stupid as they are) should be applied equitably - i.e. they have to take theirs down as well. I find the use of the words "not being treated equitably" useful when dealing with authorities ;)
Good luck
1066
Edited to add - have you thought about contacting the nationals with this story? I think they'd love the pics of your shed / flag
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Yer what ever Tone said.
I was going to mention a petition, on the plot, then your friendly neighbour and so on, as said, most lotties are an eyesore with the collectable tat we store, but why live on top of an allotment if you don't like the view, the lotties were there long before the folk who live there, the bloke probably looks out of an upstairs window on tip toe to see your flag, pratt. >:( ;D ;D ;D
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So daft, I'm with 1066 get the national newspapers in.
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Yes, do. I'm no flag flyer myself, but I'll defend anyone's right to differ from my ideas!
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Unwashed,
I totally support your right to fly our countries flag, but unfortunately you are like many other good folk in this country that are now the persecuted in your own country, who are your neighbours do they have a problem about living in this country if so sod off to better climes, >:(
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Unwashed, please stand up to the bullies. You are a real helper with problems on here Soooooo, now is the time to take your own advice & fight the moaning bleeders. Get a petition going could we sign on here to help out?. Ask for a meeting with the council & ask them for proof somone has complained.
You helped me i wish i could return that favour.
regards Mary ;D
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I'm embarrassed to say that my resolve was weakening, but after reading your comments I'm resolved to see this through. I am pretty sure that the council are just using this as an excuse to beat up on me and they really need to stop doing that. I'm also pretty sure of my rights. My only real concern was weather flying a flag is a reasonable thing to do, bit it is isn't it.
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that sounds more like the Unwashed we have got to know on A4A !!
Mind you, 1 thought I did have, and you may not like it so much is to do the campaigning, get the legal advice etc and if by the 30th March the council has still to back down, I would take the flag pole down - but made sure I had plenty of witnesses, filmed it, (and if you could find a bugler to provide the last post that would be even better) etc. And then fight (large style) the barstewards after that. Basically I just don't think I would be prepared to lose my plot. Obviously that's only my opinion...... but at the same time I hate bullies ...... :-\
Good luck whatever you chose to do
1066
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Yes it is Unwashed, maybe they would settle for it being a foot lower, NO other concessions. I would still ask for proof of complaint (call there bluff).
Go for it challenge them show them what you are made of we are all behind you who have posted here.
Regards Mary. ;D
PS good advice from 1066, but you must decide what you would like to do.
Don`t print the answer here ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D.
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Thanks 1066. :)
No, I think if I'm really going to stand up to the council I have to be prepared to lose the plot, and after 15 years that would make me weep.
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Perhaps you could compromise a bit. Suggest that you put a plant in the chimney so it become a flower pot rather than a chimney pot. Maybe a floral display on the roof in the form of St George. Or may be four slightly smaller flags at each corner.
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Thanks Mary. I'd wondered about lowering it a bit if that would help, but like you say, I have to see the complaint. It's not breaking any rule so before I do anything the council have to back off, but after then if the individual has a point I'll be as reasonable as I can be.
Cheers Digeroo. Actually the council have already back down over the chimbly - I think they'd forgotten that they'd previously agreed to it. Someone suggested instead that I paint my shed as a union flag.
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What a brilliant idea YESSSSSSS, paint the shed as a flag. Mary ;D ;D ;D
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So glad to hear that the council have backed down over the chimney issue.
Now to the next issue, namely the flag / flagpole. You need to know that there is a genuine complaint. put every communication in writing, make sure to c.c. them to your local paper and M.P.
If it isn't actually against any of the terms and conditions of tenancy, then the council are just being bullies. Call the national bully helpline!! http://www.nationalbullyinghelpline.co.uk/
;)
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I must say that our local council will fly the flag at the drop of an hat, this St George's day will be a three day festival in our borough with everyone taking part even Mr Wong from the Chinese take-away, :)
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I realise that it is a principle but on the other hand you have more important battles to fight. Surely the cost issue is much more important.
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Stick to your guns my son, I'dmention on you being STRESSED out in your letter, it will go a long way as the council normally sit up and can be quite agreeable when this word gets a mention, but you are deffo intitled to see the complaint. ;D ;D ;D
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also use the word 'equitable' in correspondence with the council, such as, "I don't feel I'm being treated equitably in this matter" It's one of those 'scare words' for lawyers / council officials. ;)
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Hi Unwashed
Been following posts with interest. Being a staunch member of the stand up to bullies and thwart the jobsworths brigade, I've even appeared on the local tele, after stirring up a (non-allotment related) storm. Give 'em a try. specially as SGD is only just around the corner. You could be the Local Hero! But I also understand that compromises might have to be made, so the painting the shed as a flag is the next best thing.
All the very best of luck here, for since when did we become the servants of local councils and since when did they become our masters.....and we pay 'em for it!!!!!!!
Regards Caro
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Hi Digeroo, I'm fighting the rent increase too, my concern about the flag was that there might be a neighbour out there who really does find it anoying for some completely reasonable reason. If the council want to bring the two of us together so that we can both understand each other's needs and expectations then they'd be doing the right thing and I'd be happy to try to understand the neighbours point of view, and maybe I'd decide then that it was reasonable to do something.
Of course, if it turns out that one of my town councillors have coerced some vulnerable old biddy into making a malicious complaint just so they can intimidate me for complaining about the rent increase or starting the allotment society or something, then that would be, err, different. Perhaps they have their own reasons for not showing me the complaint.
I have to say how much I value and appreciate all of your support. Thanks you.
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since when did we become the servants of local councils and since when did they become our masters.....and we pay 'em for it!!!!!!!
Apso-bloody-lutely!
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What do you know! I'm not going to be evicted after all. They haven't said why exactly, but the council have definitively told me that there is no threat of eviction. My site steward has also written a note of support to the council saying how my flag's unique and no one has a problem with it, so that was very helpful. 8)
All of your help and support has been invaluable. My Council read all of my threads on A4A and I'm sure they will have taken your comments into account.
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Thats great news, common sense prevails. Im wondering though exactly how your councillors justify the taxpayers money theyre wasting reading your threads on an allotment forum? They and MPs just dont get it do they.
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Well done! Sounds as if common sense has triumphed at least for a few moments.
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great news fella ;)
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That's really good news, you must be so relieved.
Good luck with the rent increase campaign.
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Great news.
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great news, simon. well done for not caving in to bullies.
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I've not contributed here, but I've been reading. Ever so pleased at the result, unwashed 8)
All the best,
Lishka
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well done you ;D/ shades x
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Phew!! And now you can get on with your allotment properly - just in time for the main growing season ;D
Well done mate!
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That's good news well done, ;D and goodluck with the rest.
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:) Hi Simon great to read some good news for once common sense `Prevails` keep flying the flag.
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Good to hear, very pleased for you :)
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Nice result Unwashed, they obviously didn't like what they read on here, or were they bluffing, anyway if they are reading because they obviously haven't got any proper work to be getting on with, and if they are :P :P :P :P :P :P
;D ;D ;D
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Only just seen this thread
congrats on standing your ground
honestly...don't some people just make you made though!
what next...possession of a wonky fruit cage
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This is getting a bit tiresome... it seems now that I might still get evicted in the end, though don't say so because it seems to make the Council rather cross.
March 1 I get a letter telling me there's been a complaint about the chimbly and flag being an eyesore and as both breach the structure height rule I have to take them down within 30 days.
March 3 I tell the Council that they've already given me implicit permission for the chimbly, and that I can't agree the flag is an eyesore and won't be taking it down.
March 11 the Council tell me that they never meant to include the chimbly, but that the flag still has to come down.
March 18 I tell the Council that the flag isn't breaking any rule.
March 25 the Council send me a copy of my steward's note of support, but complain that talk of me being threatened with eviction is unhelpful and frustrating misinformation.
March 25 I ask the council to confirm that they now agree with me that the flag doesn't break any rule. I ask to see the complaint.
March 26 the Council tell me that the complaint hasn't been withdrawn and so they haven't yet decided whether the flag breaks a rule or not, but will decide at some time. They complain again talk of me being evicted is untrue misinformation.
So, March 1st the Council are sure the flag breaks a rule and they serve me the S.146 notice telling me to take it down within 30 days. I tell the council I'm not going to take it down so the Council either a. agree that it's not breaking the rule, or b. they evict me. Right?
And as it isn't a., it must be b. So Come April 1st Newbury Town Council are to evict me because I won't furl my Cross of St. George. Obviously they won't because they can't, but do they really expect me to play along with their silly little game? I'm getting a bit cross myself now.
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I bet the 'daily mail' would love this story?
'Man evicted from allotment for flying the St Georges Cross' makes a good front-page story, eh? ;)
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Hi, I've just joined and saw this thread. So, what's the news? I am thinking of flying a peace flag on my greenhouse ... but I don't want to get into trouble with the council. Are they really going to evict you?
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@sunshinegirl - that's more my kind of flag!
There is an important point here isn't there - at it's heart this is about freedom of expression. I don't really get patriotism & disagree with most of what this flag represents, but I agree entirely with his right to fly it.
I might get a CND one for mine now... Or maybe an A for Atheist week.
Tony's right - get one of the right-wing tabloids onto it, they'd love it!
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Cheers Shades.
Robert, the council haven't told me who complained, only that they think the flag and chimbly are an eyesore. I really would have been a lot more sympathetic if they'd told me to my face instead of getting the council involved.
Sorry, screwed up the image link. Here it is again:
(http://www.emilyware.co.uk/blogs/media/blogs/simon/StGeorgeShed.jpg)
In a strange way, it reminds me of the shed on chitty chitty bang bang.
By the way, great shed and what is wrong with flying the flag, political correctness gone wrong again. I am glad you are beating off the buggers, keep going if you can, you are in the right
Kx
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Hi sunshinegirl. Unless your allotment rules prevent it there's nothing stopping you flying a national flag, but you'd actually need planning permission for a peace flag.
Ollie, you're spot on, freedom of expression is exactly what it's about. But I think you should fly a St. George flag with pride, because it isn't about aggressive nationalism, it's about liberty.
lottiedolly, it's not the first time I've thought of myself as Caractacus Potts. :)
Tony, I'm thinking seriously about it, but I'd feel so dirty.
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Tony, I'm thinking seriously about it, but I'd feel so dirty.
sometimes, you gotta do what ever will work!! ;)
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Flag is OK, but can't you just stick it in the ground, or put it at the front of the shed, think it does spoil the view of the lovely trees. I am frightened to type this as will probably be shot down in flames, but I didn't complain as I can't see it, but it doesn't really do a lot for me.
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Flag is OK, but can't you just stick it in the ground, or put it at the front of the shed, think it does spoil the view of the lovely trees. I am frightened to type this as will probably be shot down in flames, but I didn't complain as I can't see it, but it doesn't really do a lot for me.
Borlotti, I asked for opinions and that's what I got, and I appreciate your comment.
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It is rather remarkable that the council have the finance in place to allot some one the totally useless task of persuing this issue.
I must say that I find the shed etc an amusing sight even if it could do with a coat of cuprinol substitute. Far more interesting than some of these Listed Buildings which are slowly dropping to bits.
In fact, is there any reason why you could not apply to whom so ever one applies to, to have the shed and flag pole.....Listed?
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I'm tempted to fly the Red Flag, without planning permisson, just to be awkward!
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Hi all,
I have read all the repplies and find many quite amusing, point is that a Flag should not cause a reason for eviction or else, its just a flag, no matter what it represent, Im sure if you go around your council you will find many flags that you can put a claim in.
But...
The very basic point its.............Its just an allotment for god sake a piece of land where normal people grow their own veggies and proud to work the dirt, Blocking the view of the trees?????? cmon lets be serious.
This its the common problem that as become a massive Great Britain problem...someone complains to the authorities and because they dont have the balls to turn around and say...(shot your trap its just a St. George flag) they opted for the usual route..take it down or else.
I thought that this was going on in the town as building wise..but now the allotment too...lmao, people cant wear a cross at work because offends ahahahahahhahahahah...slowly slowly they are stripping us of ours traditions and belives, with the usual excuse that its politically incorrect.
If I was you I would take it down..but I will paint the shed instead...a massive St. George shed..lol
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The St George's cross isn't much of a tradition, it's something the politicians tried pushing a few years ago. Before that it was pretty much restricted to football and the occasional church tower. But never mind.
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Maybe for you Robert, but some of us have followed the flag for a lot longer and are proud of it. ;D ;D ;D
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Yes Robert you absolutely right...but it makes even worst...
Still I think that a flag of a reasonable size shouldn't be a excuse for a council to evict somebody from their allotment.
Next will be....you cant grow striped courgette coz they are polically incorrect lol
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It's extremely unlikely that this has anything to do with political correctness. I think it very much more likely that it's because I criticised the council for imposing a 47% increase in rents.
As it happens Newbury Town Council do fly a St. George Flag from the Town Hall on St. Georges Day - because two years ago I asked them to! Here's what I said:
Policy and Resources Committee 21 April 2008 (http://www.newbury.gov.uk/minutes08/minutespr080421.pdf)
71. QUESTIONS AND PETITIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
Mr Simon Kirby asked the following question:
“There's an item before you tonight to consider the policy for flying flags from the
Town Hall flag pole.
The policy being recommended to you tonight is the Department for Culture, Media
and Sport's rules for national government building such as prisons, research
establishments and VAT offices. These rules have no application to Town Halls
which are free to fly whatever flag they choose, constrained only by the Town and
Country Planning regulations that flags other than national and county flags require
planning permission.
By all means let's fly the Union Flag on the Queen's birthday, but St. George's Day
is the English national day so please fly the Cross of St. George on Wednesday.
But this is the Newbury Town Hall. The flag pole is a great opportunity to celebrate
Newbury's civic pride with some local colour. How about we choose appropriate
days to fly the arms of Newbury's four twin towns, and then celebrate some of
Newbury's excellent institutions such as the Racecourse, Newbury Rugby club, The
Kennet and Avon Canal, Vodafone, Newbury Weekly News, St Barts and Park House
Schools, and of course a flag in National Allotments Week!
You could fly the Berkshire County flag without any additional permission, or better
still commission a Newbury flag and get planning permission to fly that, or fly one
for the specific institution.
It might also be nice to invite suggestions from the public for a couple of other flag
days so that Newbury can respect other events such as flying the Rainbow Flag in
Gay Pride Week”.
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Hi unwashed... would i really need planning permission for a peace flag? That's crazy talk.... I'm gonna put it up anyway and see what happens. Seems like you're struggling with your council at the moment, I didn't realise allotments had such drama around them, I just want to plant my veggies and get on with it ;D
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It's extremely unlikely that this has anything to do with political correctness. I think it very much more likely that it's because I criticised the council for imposing a 47% increase in rents.
As it happens Newbury Town Council do fly a St. George Flag from the Town Hall on St. Georges Day - because two years ago I asked them to! Here's what I said:
Policy and Resources Committee 21 April 2008 (http://www.newbury.gov.uk/minutes08/minutespr080421.pdf)
71. QUESTIONS AND PETITIONS FROM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
Mr Simon Kirby asked the following question:
“There's an item before you tonight to consider the policy for flying flags from the
Town Hall flag pole.
The policy being recommended to you tonight is the Department for Culture, Media
and Sport's rules for national government building such as prisons, research
establishments and VAT offices. These rules have no application to Town Halls
which are free to fly whatever flag they choose, constrained only by the Town and
Country Planning regulations that flags other than national and county flags require
planning permission.
By all means let's fly the Union Flag on the Queen's birthday, but St. George's Day
is the English national day so please fly the Cross of St. George on Wednesday.
But this is the Newbury Town Hall. The flag pole is a great opportunity to celebrate
Newbury's civic pride with some local colour. How about we choose appropriate
days to fly the arms of Newbury's four twin towns, and then celebrate some of
Newbury's excellent institutions such as the Racecourse, Newbury Rugby club, The
Kennet and Avon Canal, Vodafone, Newbury Weekly News, St Barts and Park House
Schools, and of course a flag in National Allotments Week!
You could fly the Berkshire County flag without any additional permission, or better
still commission a Newbury flag and get planning permission to fly that, or fly one
for the specific institution.
It might also be nice to invite suggestions from the public for a couple of other flag
days so that Newbury can respect other events such as flying the Rainbow Flag in
Gay Pride Week”.
Sounds to me like the lunatics are running the asylum/decision by committee etc. Keep the flag flying. A question to ask is: what if you had made your own 'flag': a big rectangle with 'Unwashed's Plot' sewn onto it. Would that also require removal?
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a big rectangle with 'Unwashed's Plot' sewn onto it
That would need planning permission, though it still wouldn't be any business of the town council.
Incidentally, the council did pick up my idea to have their own flag, though in true Newbury Town Council style they never actually did anything about it.