Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: JanG on March 11, 2021, 09:52:04
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Things are stirring in the garden/allotment at last and it’s a great time to be thinking ahead. Time to jump in and join the 2021 Seed Circle! This will be its 11th year and in that time an amazing number of seeds have been exchanged - some very lovely, many very interesting, some unusual and some just downright useful. So please do say if you’d like to be involved, whether or not you have before, and then begin to think what you might be able to set aside for seed-saving.
For those who haven’t joined in before here’s some information to help you decide if you would like to join.
The Seed Circle is open to all A4A members; it’s great to have new people join too. The group is all about setting aside a little growing space, ,and time to raise some crops for seeds, keeping the group informed as to how the season is going, then at the end of the season sharing some growing information and the all-important saved seeds with the group.
Each person decides what 2 or more crops they will grow and save seed from (we do inc. tubers, bulbs and cuttings, but just make sure they are well wrapped so they don't dampen any seeds), saving enough seed for every other member to grow a crop the following year. The group could be up to 20 people but is more often under 10. Veggies will generally need to be heritage or open pollinated so that they will come true from seed (potato seeds won’t come exactly true). If you include grown out hybrids please state this clearly.
I think most of us have found out that some vegetables are easier than others to save seed from, and everything can change with the weather. But generally peas, French beans, tomatoes, perhaps potatoes and some herbs are the easiest. Chillies, Sweet peppers, squash, courgette and lettuce will need isolating from other varieties to keep seed pure. Parsnips, onions, leeks, beetroot, carrots, celeriac and many brassicas only go to seed the second year and need isolation from other varieties and so are more time consuming and a little trickier.
Real Seeds gave the idea for the circles. Their site gives some great seed saving tips as well as being a great seed catalogue http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedsavinginfo.html. There is also a brilliant series of shortish videos on seed saving for different veggies at: https://www.diyseeds.org/en/
For anyone interested, what we finally shared in 2020 can be found at https://airtable.com/shryC20nRNmUcgT30. Try Gallery View.
For anyone interested, what we finally shared from 2017 onwards can be found at https://seedsaverscircle.home.blog/
For anyone interested in previous years’ Seed Parcels and what we finally shared in 2016 and previously, they can be found at http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/
And some previous threads for the Circles;
Seed Circle 2020 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,82679.0.html
Seed Circle 2019 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,82221.0.html
Seed Circle 2018 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,81651.0.html
Seed Circle 2017 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,81010.0.html
Please could a Moderator pin this?
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Count me in please!
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Great! Do you have any particular plans yet?
The Früher Heinrich mangetout you donated last year, started early December in the greenhouse, are outside growing strongly, and withstood the high winds and freezing nights we had earlier this month. I have high hopes for them.
And Redventure celery seedlings are sitting happily in their modules. More promise of things to come!
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Wonderful :) they are definitely hardy. Should have some blooms in April.
Celery and celeriac have germinated well, hopefully we have no problems with the latter. Hope you like the Redventure. We find it quite powerfully aromatic, though that's probably due to conditions, which were on the dry side when harvested. Not much needed for soup!
I'm giving melons a serious attempt this year, as well as moschata squash.
Also have sown some diverse lettuces just for the seed crop (Wild Garden Mix, Bronze Arrow, White Samara), and have plans to trial a few varieties of beets and carrots - though no seed from these until 2022. This is the 2nd year for the multiplier onions so they may flower, fingers crossed.
Besides this it's the usual - tomatoes, beans, peas, and a lot of greens - though perhaps in more ambitious (foolhardy) quantities than previous years.
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count me in
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Ruud, that would be great. I’ll pm you.
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Good luck with your melons, Vetivert. I’m hoping to do better than in the last couple of years when I’ve had melons become juicy but not particularly sweet. Also some mice troubles. They haven’t received my best attentions though, I have to admit. One or two different ones to try this year.
Your range of lettuces sounds interesting. How wild is the Wild Garden Mix?
Sounds like a full year ahead. I’m very familiar with that ambitious/foolhardy edge!
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I'd love to join if that's okay! Not sure what I'll have yet, most probably peas. :)
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Delighted that you’d like to participate, Silverleaf. Peas would be great, including any of your own creations.
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We love peas!
JanG, it's pretty 'wild'. Seeing a lot of diversity in the little plants already. It's sold as a mix of every variety bred by Frank Morton/Wild Garden Seed plus unreleased lines. I'm growing seed from 2019 so it may not have the latest introductions in there (and I don't have room to grow all of the seeds in the pack).
Have your Redventure seedlings shown any colouration on the stems? I've cleverly sown them in a tray next to celeriac, forgot to label and now have no idea which row is which.
:sign5: Hoping some red will show soon...
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Vetivert, your Wild Garden Mix sounds very interesting! Frank Morton has created such a vibrant range.
About five years ago, I had quite a few of Frank Morton’s lettuce varieties from Wild Garden Seeds. I was especially interested in spotted varieties as my son was developing a project with spotted lettuces. (London Freedom Seed Bank). Included in the ones I got was a mix called, at the time, Frank Morton’s Secret Mix. I still grow a few most years and they’ve continued to germinate. Most enjoyable! It sounds like your Wild Garden Mix has an even wider diversity.
I’ll check my Redventure seedlings when I get out to the greenhouse, and let you know. I also have them growing next to celeriac but hopefully labelled! 🤞🤞
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Now look what you’ve made me do! I’m all excited about seeds now and I’ve ordered 9 varieties of tomato from Croatia. As if I haven’t got enough tomato seeds already! ;)
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Probably not sowing them all this year, but maybe I can squeeze a couple in somewhere?
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That does sound exciting. You can always tell yourself that tomato seeds keep for ages, but I find I just have to grow them THIS year! I have loads too many too.
Would be great to hear what you've ordered. Interesting colours? Hope they arrive soon!
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Have your Redventure seedlings shown any colouration on the stems? I've cleverly sown them in a tray next to celeriac, forgot to label and now have no idea which row is which.
Vetivert, there's definitely red colouration in the Redventure seedlings.
The snag is that in my celeriac seedlings there's a bit off red colouration too, but there's definitely more in the Redventure.
Not a very clear photo but Giant Prague celeriac to the right and Redventure to the left. I think you should be able to tell them apart when they're a month or so old. Mine were sown 6th Feb.
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I went for:
Sart Roloise (white beefsteak with blue shoulders)
Pink Painted (pink indigo)
Amethyst Jewel (pink indigo)
Zlatava (orange with red inside)
Indigo Kumquat (yellow plum cherry with blue shoulders)
Coyote (tiny yellow cherry with unusual flavour, I grew it years ago but for some reason I don't think I saved seed)
Gargamel (red, yellow and blue stripes)
Helsing Junction Blues (blue cherry)
Ei Von Phuket (pale pink plum)
I just can't resist weird colours! :tongue3:
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Great stuff! I have a bit of a weakness for weird colours too!
I’m growing three of the same varieties as you: Indigo Kumquat, Gargamel and Helsing Junction Blues. We’ll have to compare notes.
White beefsteak with blue shoulders is difficult to imagine but sounds amazing. And Zlatava too - sounds rather like a blood orange?
Great selection. Sounds like a rainbow tomato project to run by the side of your rainbow pea project! 👍😃
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I’m wondering how those participating in the 2020 seed circle are getting on with the varieties exchanged then. And also where best to exchange any observations.
I wanted to post about Galina’s Greek White squash and decided to put that on the 2020 seed circle thread. If anyone has any thoughts about whether it’s best to do that, or to simply use this year’s thread, do say. I’m just not sure whether anyone is likely to read the 2020 thread.
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It's peak seed saving time!
Seed saving is probably at its height right now. Certainly I’m seriously into podding dried beans and also fermenting tomato seeds on my kitchen windowsill.
I’m very impressed in particular with a variety of tomato called Azoychka which was new to me. It’s a large yellow beefsteak which came early, a nice surprise for such a large tomato. It has remained prolific throughout the season with good large yellow tomatoes. I have this one lined up to offer as part of my contribution to the seed circle.
I hope everyone else interested in joining in is beginning to have a few ideas about what you might be able to contribute. Do divulge if you know already. It’s good for us to whet our appetites!
It would also be good to know what kind of timing would suit everyone this year. Last year, if I remember rightly, we sent our seeds by the end of November in anticipation of Brexit complications. And it seemed to work rather well. Perhaps you could say if you would like to go for the end of November again, or whether you would prefer to wait until the new year.
In the meantime, happy seed saving. And new participants are very welcome.
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I am saving principe borghese tomato and padron peppers if they are any interesting :)
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Those would certainly be of interest. It would be great to have you join the circle.
Principe Borghese is apparently good for sun drying. Have you ever tried it that way? And for me personally I'm very interested to try Padron peppers which I believe are mild, except that occasionally you get a very hot one. Sounds like an interesting gamble!
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End of Nov again sounds good to me.
Saving senposai seeds and not sure what to make of the current condition of the pods. They look ready to ripen but are committed to staying green. Should I cut and hang to dry or leave them?
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I've never grown it but it sounds great from descriptions I've read.
Could you hedge your bets and and take one or two sprigs of pods to dry off the plant and leave the rest a while longer?
How have you found the eating quality?
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https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/seed-saving-guidelines?fbclid=IwAR0gY55pYEG3nMkif2UhG3IE9ZNJOli56GGg8ipycDZJhkw9kYeFFYEtsCg
Sorry this is rather late in the year, but here is a very good seedsaving guide from the Heritage Seed Library.
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Thanks for the link. They advise not to cut while the pods are still green. Some are starting to take on a more autumnal colour, so I'll remain patient.
It's a very tasty vegetable. Hard to describe - very tender spring cabbage with a slight hint of mustard perhaps? it has the rapid growth of other Asian brassicas. Why it was dropped from British catalogues is beyond me.
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And another seed saving page that is good and interesting with lots of 'how to' videos.
https://www.diyseeds.org/en/films/?fbclid=IwAR3ojqqmxLeVyHi1VTZh8XK9PuwbxDDFRN4_sFgAn-qBrT_kD1M1Q7CQaHw
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It’s getting nearer to seed circle time. I hope everyone’s growing, harvesting and seed saving has been going really well in spite of a cold start to the season for many of us.
It would be great if we could begin to indicate what we think we can offer. I haven’t heard from one or two people about timing but thanks, Vetivert, for your reply. We can decide on timing in the next week or so.
Those taking part:
Silverleaf
Vetivert
Galina
Ruud
JanG
Elfeda?
I’d like to contribute:
Tomato, Azoychka
Tomato, Sweet Aperitif
Tomato, Jen’s Tangerine
Tomato, Primabella
Pea, Rosakrone
Pea, Opal Creek
Pea, Champion of England
Dwarf French bean, Saint Esprit d’Oeil Rouge
Anyone else?
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Hello , if I am not too late and what I have is of interest I could offer
Beetroot..Long Blood Red
Lettuce…Northern Queen
Turnip…Veitch’s Red Globe
Cime Di Rape , Quarantina
The stars of the plot this year have been Judion bean , almost dry and a Rocket of sorts the seed is from a friend whose family grow it in Iraq they call it Rochelle (sp!) it’s fast , vigorous, prolific and tasty ( quite a bite)
If the above are suitable I’ll add them to the circle.
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Hi Markfield Rover. Very good to have you join. And what you offer is of great interest, a lovely range.
And from a pm you sent, I think you’re OK for the end of November? Your Judion beans (big white seeded runner?) sound great too. We can hang on a week or two if you’re thinking of contributing those too.
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Thank you , the Judion bean is a whopper, the largest bean I’ve grown, I think it is a runner but the instructions I was given was to treat as a butter bean, cooking details are scarce, I wanted to eat them fresh , so I alerted my neighbour to listen out in case it all went too quiet! The pods were completely dry so I think a fortnight should do it. The plants have meanwhile produced a lot more pods. The rest are ready.
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They sound great. I’m never quite sure what is meant by butter bean but it sounds a bit like Greek Gigandes but more productive perhaps. Are the pods fairly short and squat?
I often miss that stage of podding them demi-sec, as it’s sometimes called. But I love having dried beans so, although it’s a bit more trouble, it all turns out well!
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Hi everybody,i am still drying beans and other seeds but i will be finished far before the deadline.I will make list of my contribution this year.Just a little bit more patience.Have a nice evening everybody
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Thank you, Ruud. Good to hear from you and to know that you're OK with the end of November. Good luck with your drying and sorting. A busy but exciting time of year!
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Updated list of circle:
Silverleaf
Vetivert
Galina
Ruud
JanG: tomatoes, Azoychka, Sweet Aperitif, Jen’s Tangerine, Primabella; peas Rosakrone, Opal Creek, Champion of England; Dwarf FB, Saint Esprit d’ceil Rouge
Markfield Rover: Beetroot..Long Blood Red: Lettuce…Northern Queen; Turnip…Veitch’s Red Globe: Cime Di Rape , Quarantina
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The Judion pods are about 6 inches , containing between one and four beans , I have plenty drying. Although I can’t accurately name the rocket/Rochelle it’s certainly very tasty , I’ll add both these.
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Looking good already!
I'll add:
Broad Bean
El Beano
Climbing Bean
Angel/Engelsbohne/Monstrance
Oude Sloveense Boterboon
Grand-mère
Lettuce
Bronze Arrowhead
White-seeded Samara
Senposai (European Cabbage x Komatsuna)
In addition I hope to include the mammoth Dutch runner 'Boerentenen', to complement Markfield's Judion, but I've yet to harvest the pods and with recent weather have no idea how well they've ripened. Fingers crossed.
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Let's see what is dry or what will be.
Climbing French beans Hewitt and Phil's. Hewitt is dual use and Phil's is a pencil podded green bean. Hewitt came from HSL via Jayb who is the donor of my first seeds. Phil's come from a USA seed swap some 20 years ago. The donor's neighbour Phil had died and left a huge row of his fabulous tall green beans behind in his garden. My swap partner took some of these bean seeds. There was quite a discussion about what variety they might be. Possibly Kentucky Blue. However I have bought KB since and those while similar, weren't a patch on Phil's. Both beans are tall and stringless. Only proviso is that our new neighbour has bees. While I hope there will not be an undue amount of crossing, I do not yet fully understand how, if at all, these bees affect any bean crossing rates.
We also have Hungarian pepper Sipka Belaja, which I have shared once before. Early, nice fruity, short pods, hot, bright shiny red, but not lethal.
Purple tomatillos were good this year. And also the little ground cherries, which are also a repeat. Maybe a pea, have to see what I have enough of to share.
Love seeing what others are offering. This is going to be a good swap. Thank you.
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Great to have your likely offerings, Vetivert and Galina, and thanks for the detailed information, Galina. It's very good to have the stories behind the beans etc.
It's becoming a wonderfully exciting list of varieties.
Another update:
Silverleaf
Vetivert Broad Bean, El Beano; Climbing Bean, Angel/Engelsbohne/Monstrance, Oude Sloveense Boterboon, Grand-mère; Lettuce[/b Bronze Arrowhead, White-seeded Samara; Senposai (European Cabbage x Komatsuna); Runner bean, Boerentenen?
Galina Climbing French bean, Hewitt, Phil’s; Pepper, Sipka Belaja; purple tomatillos; ground cherry
Ruud
JanG: Tomatoes, Azoychka, Sweet Aperitif, Jen’s Tangerine, Primabella; Peas Rosakrone, Opal Creek, Champion of England; Dwarf FB, Saint Esprit d’oeil Rouge
Markfield Rover: Beetroot..Long Blood Red: Lettuce…Northern Queen; Turnip…Veitch’s Red Globe: Cime Di Rape , Quarantina
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I have the Judion bean and the “Rocket “ which I need to label carefully as I don’t know the true name , it’s just jolly nice! To add to the above.
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Also enough seeds of climbing French beans Reading Purple from HSL and Mazlenk Visok Dolgi Stroki, a pencil podded yellow bean from Bohnenatlas. Originally from Slovenia. Sorry no photos. Here is Reading Purple from HSL, but I must say that mine were longer than the ones on the photo, many with 9 seeds inside and I would take the 'stringless when young' to mean 'when very young'. Basically I would call them a bean with strings. Nevertheless a good bean with high yields, that is worth growing. https://hsl.gardenorganic.org.uk/seedlist/french-bean/reading-purple
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I have also got enough seeds of Zelma Zesta, a pencil podded Climbing French Bean that did really well for me this year. The alternative spelling is Selma Zesta and a different bean to Selma Zebra, although superficially they resemble each other. Here is the story of Selma Zesta as written by Remy from Sample Seeds: http://www.sampleseeds.com/?page_id=7770
This variety has green pods striped with purple. They are stringless. This is an older Parks seed variety that originated from a family heirloom. Some of this bean’s history was described over on the GardenWeb Bean forum by the member Rodger (The supplier of my seeds):
“The Zelma Zesta bean was developed by my wife’s Great Uncle the Late Mr JC Metze. Mr Metze gave me a quart jar of seed in the early 80s. The bean was developed from a family bean that he selected for long tender pods. In the 1960s he sold the patent for the bean to Parks seed company which is about 30 miles from us here in South Carolina. Parks Trialed the bean at their bean grow out farm in Selma Alabama. My understanding from Parks seed is all varieties that were introduced from the Selma Alabama farm used the name Selma. Parks no longer uses the farm in Selma Alabama most seed is generated abroad or in the Western part of the US today. Parks sold the bean in their catalog in the 1960s to early 1970s. So the real name of the bean would have been Selma Zesta, but I use the spelling of Zelma Zesta because that is what is written on the label that Mr JC Metze gave me when he gave me the beans.”
There is a nearly lost variety but now available again from a couple of smaller seed companies in the USA.
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Thanks Galina, all these beans sound lovely. Great to see another Mazlenk bean. The Mazlenk Rumen Visok II from last year's circle was a good one, tasty, tender and stringless. The pods drying for seed are like prunes - completely wrinkled, not a hint of parchment.
I can confirm Boerentenen. Still many green pods, but no rain damage as I had feared.
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Mazlenk is Slovenian and means butter or buttercup. Buttery soft or butter yellow beans. I thought for a long time as I had been told by my original donor, that Mazlenk is a family name, but apparently not so.
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Here is my list till now,maybe i can offer some more depends on the time needs of drying some late ones.
BEANS: strecour del piemonte pole variety of merveille de piemonte.
noir de belgique dwarf bean very old belgian variety of snap bean,picked young.
paarse johan dutch variety,purple pole bean
blue coco purple pole bean from french very old variet dated 18 century.
TOMATOES: ayas turkish red tomato indeterminate seize golf ball,great crop.
rosamax big red tomatoes indeterminate
kozula 125 red with green flames indeterminate from poland golf ball seize
PEPPERS:phrik key nuu one of asian famoust peppers great crop
dulce pestisor yellow sweet pepper from romania,sweet pepper shaped sweet pepper
turkish snake hot pepper long red one can be 20 cm long
TOMATILLO: queen of malinalco very big long shaped yellow tomatillo,tastes great fresh.Origanelly from malinalco mexico
This is my contribution to the seedcircle,maybe there will be some surprises depends on time of drying.Have a nice day and greetings from the other side of the pond
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ruud, that list has certainly put a spring in my step ! So much to look forward to.
The circle maybe a moderate number but it definitely packs a punch. Thank you all.
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Amazing list Ruud, thanks. Have been wanting to try that Malinalco tomatillo for ages now :icon_cheers:
Is the Strecour del Piemonte a drying bean or snap?
Appreciate the update regarding the 'mazlenk' name. It would appear that its usually spelled 'maslenec' in the context of butter pods. Here's one that looks very much like 'Mazlenk Rumen Visok II' http://www.bohnen-atlas.de/sorten/p/2781-ptujski-maslenec
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What a great list, Ruud. Lovely to have so many rare varieties circulating and therefore more secure from being lost. The only variety you've listed that seems to be at all available is the tomato Kozula 125 and that looks and sounds really special.
And thanks for your additional beans, Galina. As Markfield Rover says, this collection of varieties really packs a punch now!
Everyone seems fine with an end of November deadline. I'll send PMs in the next couple of days with further details. We haven't heard from Silverleaf recently but we'll hope she's still with us, so please prepare five packages of the seeds you're offering.
Updated list. Please correct if any mistakes or omissions
Silverleaf
Vetivert
BROAD BEAN: El Beano
CFB: Angel/Engelsbohne/Monstrance, Oude Sloveense Boterboon, Grand-mère;
LETTUCE: Bronze Arrowhead, White-seeded Samara;
SENSOPOSAI: (European Cabbage x Komatsuna);
RUNNER BEAN: Boerentenen
Galina
CFB: Hewitt, Phil’s, Reading Purple, Mazlenk Visok Dolgi Stroki, Zelma Zesta;
PEPPER: Sipka Belaja
TOMATILLO: Purple
GROUND CHERRY
Ruud
CFB: strecour del piemonte pole variety of merveille de piemonte, noir de belgique, paarse johan dutch variety,purple pole bean , blue coco purple pole bean from french very old variet dated 18 century.
DFB:dwarf bean very old belgian variety of snap bean,picked young.
TOMATOES: ayas turkish red tomato indeterminate seize golf ball,great crop, rosamax big red tomatoes indeterminate, kozula 125 red with green flames indeterminate from poland golf ball seize
PEPPERS:phrik key nuu one of asian famoust peppers great crop, dulce pestisor yellow sweet pepper from romania, sweet pepper shaped sweet pepper, turkish snake hot pepper long red one can be 20 cm long
TOMATILLO: queen of malinalco very big long shaped yellow tomatillo,tastes great fresh.Origanelly from malinalco mexico
JanG
TOMATOES: Azoychka, Sweet Aperitif, Jen’s Tangerine, Primabella
PEAS: Rosakrone, Opal Creek, Champion of England;
DFB: Saint Esprit d’oeil Rouge
LETTUCE: Bijou, Brown Dutch
Markfield Rover
BEETROOT: Long Blood Red:
LETTUCE:Northern Queen
TURNIP: Veitch’s Red Globe:
CIME DI RAPE , Quarantina,
RUNNER BEAN: Judion,
ROCKET/Rochelle
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I've added two lettuce varieties to my list. Brown Dutch is documented from the eighteenth century and was grown by Thomas Jefferson at Monticello which is where my seed originally came from. It's quite a large loose-headed variety with a reddish tinge to the outside leaves.
Bijou is a modern variety with the darkest reddest leaves I've come across.
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Just googled your tomatillo too Ruud. One of the Joe Simcox finds. WOW! https://exchange.seedsavers.org/page/listing/id/4561.191295#:~:text=Queen%20of%20Malinalco&text=(Physalis%20ixocarpa)%20A%20unique%20and,fruit%20and%20sweet%20fruity%20flavor.
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It was one of my favourites this season.
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I’ll need to confirm later, but I should have some tomatoes, beans and peas. Sorry I’m fighting a cold at the moment so not quite on the ball!
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Ground cherry Cossack Pineapple http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/seed-circle-2012/
Sipka Belaja pepper is also a repeat from previous seed circle http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/a4a-seed-saver-group-2015/
Unfortunately I have no records of where the purple tomatillo came from.
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It is very difficult to know what is what with the Mazlenk word without good language knowledge. Google can only help so much. Mazlenk Rumen Visok went from Slovenia, possibly via Arche Noah in Austria, to Seed Savers Exchange in USA, from where a seed friend got it and swapped it with me. There may be even more intermediate stages, this is only what I know about. With so many different seed savers involved, the 'chinese whispers' effect of what ends up written on a seed packet can change names. All we can do is try and pass on the name we ourselves got without modification or interpretation of our own. Now seeing an actual commercial seed packet like you have shown, is more convincing. It could indeed be the same bean. :drunken_smilie:
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Okay, I’ve got Saart Roloise, Pink Painted, Coyote, Black Cherry and Helsing Junction Blues tomatoes.
Kentish Invicta, Unity, and Blawschokker peas. I’ve also got a ton of Elisabeth but I think that’s been shared a few times before, I’ll put them in if anyone doesn’t have them or wants fresh seed.
There’s also a few other peas with interesting flower colours if any ones interested in those, they’d be in smaller numbers though.
Not checked my beans yet…
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Got a good crop of Bloody Warrior lettuce seeds, but as it was in the circle only last year I haven't a clue whether adding more seeds would be considered necessary. Do let me know if there's interest; plenty to go around.
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Great to hear from you, Silverleaf, and your contributions much appreciated
Saart Roloise tomato looks and sounds amazing, and not otherwise available in UK I think.
I’m also interested in whether you grew Coyote out of doors. I believe it’s a large wild-type plant. I’m wondering whether it’s rather like Matt’s Wild Cheery in form and habit but yellow rather than red. How did you find it to grow and to eat?
Hope that cold is getting better.
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Saart Roloise is very striking to look at, I found it a little bland for my own tastes but I’m famously picky about tomatoes and I much prefer them with loads of acid, I’m sure others will appreciate it. I think my seeds were from Croatia.
Coyote was in my mini polytunnel. Yes the plants get pretty out of control if you don’t prune, and it makes a ton of tiny cherries. I just let it do its own thing, next year I’ll try to keep it a bit tidier! I’ve grown it outside in pots before and it’s done well. The fruit has a weird savoury taste which I really enjoy (even if my brain finds it unusual at first). It’s one of my favourites.
Cold? Ugh. No fun.
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Fermented a few tomato seeds of tomato 'Old Wyandotte'. Nice fruity beefsteak tomatoes with lovely flavour. USA heirloom tomato. Better in the greenhouse. Named after the yellow orange Wyandotte chickens.
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If anybody likes to grow a black corn i can add black aztec to the circle
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Would love some Black Aztec corn, and enjoying the prospect of Old Wyandotte too. Good to have a really flavoursome beefsteak.
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ruud , that sounds exciting, thank you.
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This might be the last list, but do feel free to add any last minute finds!
Silverleaf
TOMATO: Saart Roloise, Pink Painted, Coyote, Black Cherry, Hellsing Junction Blues
PEA: Kentish Invicta, Unity, Blauwshokker
Vetivert
BROAD BEAN: El Beano
CFB: Angel/Engelsbohne/Monstrance, Oude Sloveense Boterboon, Grand-mère;
LETTUCE: Bronze Arrowhead, White-seeded Samara;
SENSOPOSAI: (European Cabbage x Komatsuna);
RUNNER BEAN: Boerentenen
Galina
CFB: Hewitt, Phil’s, Reading Purple, Mazlenk Visok Dolgi Stroki, Zelma Zesta;
TOMATO: Old Wyandotte
PEPPER: Sipka Belaja
TOMATILLO: Purple
GROUND CHERRY
Ruud
CFB: strecour del piemonte pole variety of merveille de piemonte, , paarse johan dutch variety,purple pole bean , blue coco purple pole bean from french very old variety dated 18 century.
DFB:noir de belgique, dwarf bean very old Belgian variety of snap bean, picked young.
TOMATOES: ayas turkish red tomato indeterminate seize golf ball,great crop, rosamax big red tomatoes indeterminate, kozula 125 red with green flames indeterminate from poland golf ball seize
PEPPERS:phrik key nuu one of asian famoust peppers great crop, dulce pestisor yellow sweet pepper from romania, sweet pepper shaped sweet pepper, turkish snake hot pepper long red one can be 20 cm long
TOMATILLO: queen of malinalco very big long shaped yellow tomatillo, tastes great fresh.Originally from malinalco mexico
CORN: Black Aztec
JanG
TOMATOES: Azoychka, Sweet Aperitif, Jen’s Tangerine, Primabella
PEAS: Rosakrone, Opal Creek, Champion of England;
DFB: Saint Esprit d’Oeil Rouge
LETTUCE: Bijou, Brown Dutch
Markfield Rover
BEETROOT: Long Blood Red:
LETTUCE:Northern Queen
TURNIP: Veitch’s Red Globe:
CIME DI RAPE , Quarantina,
RUNNER BEAN: Judion,
ROCKET/Rochelle
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Forgot to add Climbing French Bean Mantra. Very early, wide, long and flat seedless green pods of the Romano type bean. Original seed received from Jeannine's and Jayb's magical seed parcel.
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They sound very appealing. I've come to really like Romano type beans lately.
And rather nice to have a variety that originated from that legendary seed parcel.
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They look wonderful galina, thank you
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this one is new for me,thanks galina
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It is on his way to the other side,hope it will arrive safe.Everybody stay safe and a great weekend.
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That's wonderful, Ruud. Fingers crossed.
And lovely to have already received two exciting boxes bursting with very interesting seeds - from Galina and from Markfield Rover. Many thanks to both for their care in saving, packaging and posting.
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Having just finished sorting out my bean seeds, I can add three more varieties which have done very well for me this year.
Squaw - one of my most productive dwarf beans this year with attractively patterned seed. I found it good to eat as a shelly/demi-sec or as a dried bean
Rosso di Lucca - this was amazingly productive for a dwarf bean. It’s an Ark of Taste Heirloom from Italy
Gialét- also from Italy and also adopted by the Slow Food Foundation’s Ark of Taste. It’s known for its delicate taste and is still grown using traditional methods in the Valbelluna district.
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Another photo (Haven't found out how to attach more than one at a time)
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Mine will hopefully be posted tomorrow or Wednesday. I’m afraid I’ve been delayed by snow and chilblains and a dog show!
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Thanks for updating. Nice to know they're nearly on their way. Hope the dog show went well and good luck with the chilblains!
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Don't know what I'm going to do with all of these beans! Thanks for these additions JanG, good to have some productive drying varieties. Gialét is a climber or bush? Looks similar to Zolfino.
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I’ve added 5 more beans to my contribution so I’m not exactly helping, sorry Vetivert! ;)
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Good to have your extra beans, Silverleaf. I'm sure Vetivert will cope!
Zolfino does seem similar in colouring and tenderness to Gialét, but Gialét is climbing whereas Zolfino is dwarf. Also confusingly an alternative name for Gialét seems to be Solferino. I think all these names relate to the yellowness of all three.
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Any not grown in 22 will happily wait a year. Bean seeds stored dark and dry stay viable for 5 or 6 years or even longer. But I can't wait to get to know my new beans, thank you all.
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I’ll update with the final list later as I can’t remember all the beans without looking them up, but I added one of my seed bank peas. I nicknamed it Beacon and it has gorgeous cerise/apple blossom flowers which look like someone painted them in with cherry pink watercolour paints. It’s another soup type pea like Unity, not quite so productive but the flowers are definitely worth it.
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Beacon flower
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That's a lovely addition, Silverleaf. So delicate.
And the good news is that all seeds have now safely arrived. I'm actually away for a short stay but hope to get parcels despatched by the middle of next week - which hopefully will beat the bulk of the Christmas rush.
Thanks again to everyone. It's a pretty impressive selection altogether!
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I was given a Seed Advent calendar this year , I will keep the envelopes and use some of the parcels contents to grow and refill for someone else next year . Utter joy!
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It’s arrived ! Thank you JanG and everyone. Wishing you all a good Christmas, we know spring is going to be a little more special. Cheers.
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Wow! Posted yesterday afternoon. That's good rapid service. I hope all was in good order.
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Looks fabulous and reassuringly heavy ,although I am waiting for the right moment to dive in , feels more indulgent than fancy chocolates.
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Mine arrived this morning and I couldn’t resist opening it right away for a quick look! I’m looking forward to a closer examination later. Thanks so much everyone, especially JanG of course. :)
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And mine has arrived too. Thank you so much Jan. Can't wait to open it and survey all those treasures. Thank you all for your seed saving work.
I love being in the garden, watching something grow and sending virtual good wishes to the donors. So if at any time next year your ears are burning, that's why :) . Thank you all.
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It arrived yesterday, thank you all for this box of treasures!
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Package arrived in the netherlands,if i will pay 5,25 euro first.Ofcourse i will.This is one of new rules.Everything outside the eu entering the eu you have to pay tax.Nevertheless i am glad it is arriving now safely.
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So happy you got the seeds and all is well. Sorry about having to pay tax, but it is worth it when you get to see what is in the parcel. :sunny:
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As Galina says, great that the parcel is at least in the country- and so quickly - and just a bit of a pity about the tax. But hope you get to enjoy the contents very soon.
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The tax is strange, on something with no commercial value/gift. The contents are definitely worth it though :drunken_smilie:
Are we to provide details for the seeds again JanG? Idk whether you're continuing with an Airtable base or something similar.
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Yes please on providing as much info as possible for the seeds donated. I was going to ask shortly after Christmas but great that you've raised it. Galina has already supplied lots of info and others some too but it's really good to know where the seed originally came from and any known history, as well as how it grows and possibly any recommendations as to how best to use the resulting crop.
At the moment, Airtable is the best arrangement I can come up with as anything else I looked into either carried a cost or was studded with adverts. I hope the Airtable arrangement was acceptable but do let me know if it worked for you or if you have a different idea for collating the information.
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I've at last got round to some fuller noted on the varieties I contributed to the seed circle. I'll add some photos to the database when I draw it up. It would be good to have any remaining details on varieties provided by other donors. Some of you have provided a lot of very valuable information already which I'll add to the database.
In the absence of any other satisfactory platform, I'm intending like last year to put all the notes received so far, and any which come in the next week or so, on an Airtable base and send out links so that you can all access it. Hopefully that will all happen in the next few days.
Tomatoes
Azoychka A productive yellow beefsteak tomato. A Russian heirloom found in Moscow on a collecting trip by Kent Whealy, founder of Seed Savers Exchange in US, who made it available in 1995
Sweet Aperitif Bred by Mark Rowland (Gourmet Genetics). It’s a very sweet small red cherry tomato, some might say over sweet. It carries an AGM and is commercially available.
Jen’s Tangerine This is an orange mid-sized tomato with good flavour found and grown in the French Pyrenees. It’s sold by Real Seeds (https://www.realseeds.co.uk/tomatoes_vines.html) though my seed came from an exchange
Primabella Also offered by Real Seeds. Impressively blight resistant. I grew this out of doors and it soldiered on happily producing mid-sized red tomatoes into October when all other plants had succumbed and died.
Peas
Rosakrone. My seed came from Real Seeds. It’s a crown pea with pink flowers. Real Seeds describes it: A very unusual heirloom from Sweden, with beautiful red/pink flowers borne in 'crowns' above the foliage.
It grows to around 4 - 5 foot tall, and looks stunning on a wigwam or peasticks for a decorative feature that also produces lots of tasty peas. Given to us by Vivi Logan, we are delighted to add this to our collection.
Opal Creek. This is a yellow Sugarsnap Alan Kapuler variety which grows to about 5ft. There’s an excellent full review of it by Rebsie Fairholme at https://www.angelfire.com/az/garethknight/dots/opalcreek.html.
My original seed came from Plants of Distinction
Champion of England. A tall growing pea bred by William Fairbeard in Kent (1843) and apparently grown by Charles Darwin, and mentioned in his book 'The Variation of Animals and Plants under Domestication, 1868'. It was judged as the best pea by the Journal of Horticulture in 1876. In the 1970's, taller growing peas fell out of favour, but HSL rescued it and offers it from time to time. My seed originally came from Real Seeds
Dwarf French beans
Saint Esprit d’Oeil Rouge A productive bean with markings rather like Soldier and perhaps one or two other named varieties. My seed came from Deaflora
https://deaflora.de/Shop/Bohnen/Buschbohne-Saint-Esprit-d--8217-Oeil-Rouge.html?language=de
Squaw One of my most productive dwarf beans this year with attractively patterned seed. I found it good to eat as a shelly/demi-sec or as a dried bean
Rosso di Lucca. This was also amazingly productive for a dwarf bean. It’s an Ark of Taste Heirloom from Italy
Climbing French bean
Gialèt Also from Italy and also adopted by the Slow Food Foundation’s Ark of Taste. It’s known for its delicate taste and is still grown using traditional methods in the Valbelluna district. My seed came from an Italian donor, as did Rosso di Lucca and Gialèt
Lettuce
Bijou. This is an attractive blistered leaf, frilly lettuce with the darkest red leaves I’ve come across. It remains loose and in good condition for a good long time. I’ve sown it in January for polytunnel planting and in March for outdoors, and it did well grown both ways.
Brown Dutch. A very old variety mentioned in 1731 by British botanist Stephen Switzer. It’s a loose-headed variety with large, floppy, blistered outer leaves tinged reddish-brown. It was grown and documented by the US president Thomas Jefferson. My original seeds came from the Monticello shop on the site of his original home and garden.
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I've now gathered all the information which you, the seed circle, gave about your varieties and I've put it all, as before, on Airtable. I've sent the link by pm this morning, so do let me know whether it works and whether you're happy with the information. If you'd like to add info that would be great. I can't remember whether you can only read or can also edit, but I'm happy to add or change anything if you let me know.
It's quite a bank of information added to from sundry internet sources, so hope it proves useful.
We didn't have any ongoing comments arising from growing 2020 varieties but I think it would be good to have follow-up so that's something I'd like to encourage - and must remember to do it myself!!
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A seed advent calendar, what a brilliant idea! Where was that from or was it home made?
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Deb P , it was a gift via Amazon, Own Grown I think was the brand . Everything was included to hang the calendar like bunting and the quality high enough to refill and reuse. Seed count was good and I am not sure I could have made it much cheaper myself about £25 . Cheers.
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I think it’s a great gift for a gardener, I think I’d quite enjoy putting one together! Not necessarily the cheapest route though as you say!
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Thank you Jan. Quite a lot of work on your part. And very useful additional info for my seed information databases. Really happy to have this resource available.
I got your link with an invitation to register. But it seems that last year's link still works. Maybe only new seed circle members need to create a password etc? Or should we all do that for some organisational reasons?
Thank you Jan and everybody who contributed info.
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Thank you from me too , much appreciated. I share the seeds with friends so all that lovely information really helps ( makes me sound like I know stuff) . Not sure I can sit on my hands for much longer although the weather is filthy! So watch out lettuces I have you in my sights …. Cheers everyone, let the sowing commence…..
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Sowed lettuces today and some dark coloured pea seeds. The yellow green marrowfats have to wait a bit longer.
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Thanks Markfield Rover and Galina. In answer to your question about creating a new password, I wouldn’t have thought so. I simply gave the link again in case you might have lost it. But the finances of Airtable are a mystery to me. I ran close to having to pay for the amount of data I have on all the bases I have, which are several growing logs. But yesterday I got credit for inviting Markfield Rover to Airtable, an unexpected and incomprehensible effect. So whatever MR did was very helpful and might cover me for future data!
Ditto, lettuces, peas and peppers. From the seed circle, I’ve sown Galina’s and Ruud’s pepper seeds (I wish I could get better at isolating pepper flowers for true seed), Vetivert’s Bronze Arrow and Markfield Rover’s Northern Queen lettuce. All beautifully coming to life.
I found Turkish Snake chilli pepper failed to germinate when I first sowed it in a pot. But I then put a few seeds in damp kitchen paper and slowly they began to germinate. I wonder whether anyone else has found it germinates more slowly and responds to a little extra care. I’m very pleased to see it coming to life as it looks amazing!
I’ve just realised I’ve left Silverleaf’s beans off the database. Apologies Silverleaf. I hope to add them in the next day or so.
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Indeed, what did you do MR? If it is beneficial, I will certainly do the log in and password routine Jang.
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All I did as far as I am aware , email plus password, don’t think I pressed anything else! I am a bit of a Luddite .
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All understood. I didn't do that. Just typed in the top window airtable and the login happened automatically as Windows auto filled the search pane.
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Two questions. I was surprised that 'Brown Dutch' is actually a white seeded lettuce. But I have since found out that it comes in two versions, both brown seeded and white seeded. And the white seeded version is the older one apparently. So all good and have just sowed the first tiny pinch in a pot on the capillary matting indoors.
https://www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/heirloom-lettuce-varieties-zewz1308zpit/#:~:text=Brown%20Dutch%20(white%2Dseeded),Swede%20in%20old%20garden%20books.
Second question. When is the best time to start the nasturtium? And do I need to put them in the propagator, on the windowsill or stratify in the fridge please.
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Morning, the Blue Pepe nasturtium can be sown direct in April/May enjoys poorish soil. I sow indoors (no extra heat) in early April one seed in a three inch pot then plant out after frosts . I always hedge my bets a little so unheated greenhouse too. I don’t do anything to the seed prior to sowing. Having said that I may sow now indoors for an early fancypants garnish for Easter .
So many seeds so little time!
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Thank you Markfield Rover. I have just started on the earliest tomatoes and lettuce. Peas to start next week. Had the very first broadbeans in a tray and planted yesterday with a bottle cloche on top of each plant. The next batch have germinated as we speak and will go out before long too, and there are tiny green shoots of the first lettuce as well.
Thank you for the nasturtium Pepe advice. Never grown them and looking forward to it, but looks like there is a little time to go yet. Thank you.
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Thanks for raising the Brown Dutch question, Galina. I know and very much like William Woys Weaver’s writings but hadn’t taken in the distinction between the two strains of Brown Dutch. As I think I said earlier, mine was from the Monticello shop, and had been grown by Thomas Jefferson in the early nineteenth century. The notes on that website refer to the same Switzer as Weaver refers to (1731). So a bit of pedigree!
I’ll have to keep a look-out for the black-seeded version.
On the subject of lettuces, I gave seeds of Bijou which was an intense dark red. I’ve sown my own seed again and so far the small plants are reddish but certainly not intensely red. I’m hoping the red develops (and can’t remember the early colour development from last year) but wondering whether some crossing has occurred, although they were in the polytunnel fairly well away from other lettuces so I’m not sure how that would have happened. But I’m hoping it’s not a disappointment.
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And I can vouch for the loveliness of Blue Pepe nasturtium. Satisfyingly blue leaves.
I planted out my first peas a couple of days ago. It seemed a bit reckless as the winds are still strong but they’re doubly protected so I’m hoping they’ll survive a bit of buffeting. Haven’t started tomatoes yet, usually wait till mid-March, but peppers are in full swing. Thank you Galina and Ruud.
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Jan, that echoes my Relic lettuce, which was just about black when I grew it first in a very sunny year. I think I shared that at some time with the seed circle. The year after it was dark red, but not blackish red. Sunlight intensity has a lot to do with the colour. Lettuce does not cross a lot, although it can, so basically don't worry about it. Mine hasn't put an appearance in yet, but I will report.
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Yes, thanks for your reassurance. The Relic I grew was red but not very dark, which bears out that a lot depends on growing conditions, as you say. I had Bijou in my polytunnel and outdoors and it was very dark red in both cases. So it is all quite curious. We shall see.
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Reading back for another reason, I came across an exchange with Earlypea. And it is quite likely that the OS for the purple tomatillo was Real Seeds and Earlypea was the donor of my seeds. I wish I had kept records, like I do with beans, peas, tomatoes and squashes. But I have not bought tomatillo seeds, so the source was most likely this seed circle.
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Thanks for that further information, Galina. I’ll add it to the database.
A week or two ago, Vetivert also sent me some more very useful information about the varieties she had contributed and that too is on the Airtable base.
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That airtable is now looking very good with a lot of information. Thank you Jang for all the work on this.
A gremlin seems to have sneaked in. Salewski's Ungarische seems to be called Rob Roy. Pastoral is under Ortner Speck and Red Carolina is under Lazy Housewife in the Gallery view. It is perfectly clear what the real name is when the information page is clicked though, so no issue.
I love scrolling through and looking forward to what is to come. Especially now that some the tiny seedlings have made an appearance. :icon_cheers:
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Thank you, Galina, for spotting those oddities. I’m not at all sure how that happened but hopefully rectified now.
Also enjoying several of the varieties. Ruud’s peppers and Galina’s Sipka Belaja are thriving and are now mostly 5-6” tall, with Turkish Snake a little smaller. Lettuces are ready to prick out and tomatoes just beginning to germinate beautifully. Peas are already planted out under their bottle cloches/rodent protection. A very exciting time of year!
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Thank you JanG. There are 2 entries for Angel, but this is getting very nitpicking indeed.
It is really lovely to have the photos and all the info in the one place. Thank you again for putting this together for us.
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I’m very pleased you’re nit-picking. Thank you for being such an efficient proof-reader. And delighted that you’re finding it useful. I shall get onto Angel immediately!
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The El Beano are in bloom, and out of 50 plants 49 have white flowers and 1 has bicoloured flowers. So the outcrossing rate to other varieties hasn't been disasterous. I hope everyone else finds their stock to be of similar quality. :wave:
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I wish, mine are well behind yours Vetivert. The first six got planted out at the end of February from handsome indoor grown plants. Even with bottle cloches they got frosted, but in the end 3 did survive, one sprouted again from the base.
A second batch started indoors in March are now also out. They are growing well but flowers are a little while off. Will report on colours. Are you keeping your bicolour flowering plant?
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Mine are also behind. I planted them in my meadow area, away from my other broad beans in the hope of keeping them pure. There they seem to have fallen prey to a determined attack by leaf-cutting bean weevils. I’m hoping they will outgrow the attack but it seems to be holding them back.
The same has happened in that area before and I’m wondering whether it could be because field beans have sometimes been grown in the field which borders it - not this year fortunately. If a population of weevils has developed in that area, I’ll need to avoid planting beans there in future.
El Beano sounds a very interesting bean. I’m very much hoping mine thrive soon. How tall did yours grow, Vetivert?
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I'm curious so I'll let the bicoloured one stay. Last season they were planted relatively close to my neighbour's Aguadulce. I was also growing Oldambtser, crimson and black flowered varieties nearby.
They weren't huge, about 3ft. Though there's every chance they'll exceed that this year, as they overwintered in the ground, whereas the last batch were transplanted rather late. The bed is also much more fertile.
Sorry to read of the pest attacks and losses. If any of you are in need of more seeds just let me know.
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You only can keep broad beans kind of real if there are no other variety in a cirkel of 500 meter.Broad beans mix very easy.
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Thanks Vetivert. Great to know. Mine are hanging on but I’ll certainly come asking if they succumb further.
And yes, broad beans are difficult to keep pure. I’ve tried mesh covers. Last year I bought, very cheap, some bridal veil material and made some net bags, but you need to cover the whole plant which in my case kept growing taller and probably made my bags ineffective!
When you’ve had broad bean seeds to offer, Ruud, did you grow just one variety or did you manage to bag them somehow?
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I just grew one variety but that wasnot 100% safe because of my neighbours.I am now creating a landrace broad bean.
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Yes, that’s definitely one very sensible way to go. Will that be a free-for-all, or will you select for certain qualities?
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That will be free for all,but if there are special ones i will try to isolated them and grow them next year.
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Big wave to MarkfieldRover and Vetivert. Hangman's door is growing extremely fast and the generous number of blood red purple pods are filling nicely already. Senposai is proving to be a very nice 'green', we have been picking individual cabbagey leaves for the kitchen for a month now. Unfortunately the slugs love them too. Great 'hungry gap' crop. Will try my best to save seeds for future years.
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Forgot to mention the super lettuces from 3 sources. Well here is a picture of my lunchtime lettuce plate.
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Yes, I second your appreciation of the lettuces. I’m looking forward, in the next day or two, to the first harvest of some impressive looking heads of White Seeded Samara
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Joy this morning, at long last the nasturtium has 'pepe'd out of the soil. Did not appreciate that it could take such a long time, but clearly it does. The foliage is very dark. Excited, as I had given up on it.
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It’s a lovely dark leaf, isn’t it? I grew it last year and again this year from my own saved seed. This year I’ve gone rather overboard with different nasturtiums so imagine I won’t be able to save it as a pure variety again but hopefully it will share its dark-leaved genes liberally.
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Senposai seems to have a second life. I harvested seeds which I was very pleased about, but the plants did not perish. I cut off the flowering stems that had dry seed pods on them, rather than pulling up the whole plants and with the cooler autumn weather, they have put on a lot of secondary growth. Both from the ground (from scattered seeds perhaps?), and from extra shoots that are trying to flower now. These are smaller rosettes with mini broccoli type buds.
Still feeding us well. I wonder whether the winter cold will put an end to the bounty or, if they survive, how 'perennial' they might be from dropped seeds and shoots developing as a consequence of the main flowering shoots having been cut off. Love Senposai - it is such a rewarding veg.
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I sowed mine later - in mid-June. I have a very healthy row of large green leaves. In my case, too, it will be interesting to see whether the leaves remain lush and edible over winter. Presumably they will flower in late spring and I’ll follow your method, Galina, of cutting off shoots rather than pulling up plants.
There will also be the question of what other brassicas they might cross with.
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Might cross with just about everything, given its mustard and cabbage ancestry.
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Senposai is the same species as rapeseed and swedes (Brassica x napus) so would presumably cross with those, and probably also the parent species B. oleracea and B. rapa but from what I've read it would be at a greatly reduced rate. A Virginian farmer says it is cold hardy down to -11C.
No wonder the seed pods stayed alive and green for so long last season, as the plant itself had no intention of dying back. Unfortunately I pulled up the whole plants with the seed harvest. It could possibly make a continuous broccolini crop, which would be a joy to behold. Enjoy the volunteers, they won't stop coming :tongue3:
Next season I'll start reselection for the leaves I find most appealing, and to eliminate the hairs found on some of them.
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My guess is that my Senposai might well flower at the same time as the rapeseed with which I’m surrounded here! We’ll see.