Allotments 4 All

Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: JanG on April 29, 2022, 17:37:20

Title: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on April 29, 2022, 17:37:20: It’s time to think of seed saving for 2022!
I hope growing is well under way and going well in spite of some cold and some very dry weather in many places. So time to think ahead as seed saving is such an important part of the year’s cycle. Last year’s seed circle included many exciting varieties generously given, and I imagine many of these are already being grown and enjoyed in members’ gardens and allotments. So hopefully the 2022 Seed Circle will also surprise and delight! This will be its 12th year and in that time an amazing number of seeds have been exchanged - some very lovely, many very interesting, some unusual and some just downright useful. So please do say if you’d like to be involved, whether or not you have before, and then begin to think what you might be able to set aside for seed-saving. It would be good to have some new members but I hope previous participants will also join in again

For those who haven’t joined before here’s some information to help you decide if you would like to join.

The Seed Circle is open to all A4A members; it’s great to have new people join too. The group is all about setting aside a little growing space, ,and time to raise some crops for seeds, keeping the group informed as to how the season is going, then at the end of the season sharing some growing information and the all-important saved seeds with the group.

Each person decides what 2 or more crops they will grow and save seed from (we do inc. tubers, bulbs and cuttings, but just make sure they are well wrapped so they don't dampen any seeds), saving enough seed for every other member to grow a crop the following year. The group could be up to 20 people but is more often under 10. Veggies will generally need to be heritage or open pollinated so that they will come true from seed (potato seeds won’t come exactly true). If you include grown out hybrids please state this clearly.

I think most of us have found out that some vegetables are easier than others to save seed from, and everything can change with the weather. But generally peas, French beans, tomatoes, perhaps potatoes and some herbs are the easiest. Chillies, Sweet peppers, squash, courgette and lettuce will need isolating from other varieties to keep seed pure. Parsnips, onions, leeks, beetroot, carrots, celeriac and many brassicas only go to seed the second year and need isolation from other varieties and so are more time consuming and a little trickier.

Real Seeds gave the idea for the circles. Their site gives some great seed saving tips as well as being a great seed catalogue http://www.realseeds.co.uk/seedsavinginfo.html. There is also a brilliant series of shortish videos on seed saving for different veggies at: https://www.diyseeds.org/en/

For anyone interested, what we finally shared in 2020 and 2021 can be found at https://airtable.com/shryC20nRNmUcgT30. Try Gallery View.
For anyone interested, what we finally shared from 2017 onwards can be found at https://seedsaverscircle.home.blog/
For anyone interested in previous years’ Seed Parcels and what we finally shared in 2016 and previously, they can be found at http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/

And some previous threads for the Circles;
Seed Circle 2021 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,83047.0.html
Seed Circle 2020 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,82679.0.html
Seed Circle 2019 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,82221.0.html
Seed Circle 2018 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,81651.0.html
Seed Circle 2017 https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,81010.0.html

Please could a Moderator pin this?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on May 02, 2022, 17:10:37: Thank you, JanG. :icon_cheers:

It'd be lovely to have some new participants. Contributions are by no means limited to the rare or exotic. Varieties that are widely commercially available are equally worthwhile. Seed companies are letting many open-pollinated stocks degrade so it is well worth saving and selecting your own seeds of varieties that otherwise appear 'safe'. OP Purple-sprouting broccoli, Boltardy beets, Greyhound cabbage, and Gardeners' Delight tomatoes are some of the most notable examples of widespread, once reliable varieties that have been poorly maintained.

Count me in again for 2022, please. :happy7:
All being well, besides the usual annuals I'll have some biennials to share this year - beetroot, swede, radicchio, and spinach.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on May 03, 2022, 06:29:39: That’s good news, Vetivert, and a very timely reminder that all seeds are worth saving, not just the less usual.
It would be interesting to know how you’re going about seed-saving of the biennials you mention. I have saved spinach and radicchio by sowing late in the year, cropping through the winter - possibly protected by fleece or mesh - and letting them go to seed in spring or early summer of the next year. Beetroot and swede take a bit more care I think, especially as here they get munched by rodents over winter if left in the ground. Do you lift them, store over winter and select a few? How many would you replant in spring to get good seed?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on May 03, 2022, 07:03:45: As they have delayed checks from EU into Britain yet again, it looks like participation is possible which I would love to do. The problem is how to get the return seeds, but it was encouraging to read that Ruud's seeds made it despite the post Brexit rules.

Very good points both, Jang and Vetivert. By the way, Senposai is romping away, will be planted out in the next few days. The Cress is growing very well too, and transplanted easily to the outside world a couple of weeks ago. We 'stole' the first couple of real lettuce leaves this year to supplement the landcress and lamb's lettuce for our lunches.

Tomatoes and peas from the circle are looking bonny, although I had to leave a couple of the tomatoes for next year. There are flowers coming on Jen's Tangerine. Giant Bolivian achocha has fruits! I decided to trick the plant into flowering at the spring equinox rather than sowing in May. Normally they flower around the autumn equinox and produce fruit shortly after. However, as I have now twice lost plants from my seeds (from Jayb originally) that just did not make it in autumn here and were cut short by early sharp frosts a rethink was in order. This year I used the seed circle seeds and sowed in January for a house plant, which did indeed start flowering at the spring equinox. I will plant them out into the garden in a couple of weeks and hope the flowering will continue.

I have started putting beans into little pots too to be ready for that magic date of 15th May that is supposed to be the last frosty night here.

One of the joys with home grown seeds is that they are fresh and keep longer than commercial packets that have been germination tested at the time of packing, but could otherwise be a few years old already.

Would love to take part again.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on May 04, 2022, 06:02:41: That’s brilliant news, Galina. And so far so good on sending seeds from UK into Europe. If it happens that you’re visiting England around the right time, of course I will happily send to a convenient address. We can arrange that as we go. But hopefully either way will work. Very good to have you join.

A good reminder to sow the Senposai seeds. Have you grown it at different times of the year, Vetivert? I’m wondering what the best timing is to delay it going to seed.

Tomatoes and peppers are well underway here too. Your Sipka Belaja, Galina, romped away very early and has been eager to produce flowers and fruit for a while now. I’ve discouraged it in order to encourage the plant to keep growing more, but will let it have its head now, I think. Ruud’s Phrik Key Nuu has produced a strikingly variegated small plant. I’m hoping that’s a characteristic of the variety. Has anyone else found the same?

Some peas are coming into flower. I’m struck by how early Kentish Invicta is. It has outstripped other early peas both in speed of growth and in coming into flower. I’m looking forward to tasting its first peas!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on May 04, 2022, 14:15:42: I just left everything in the ground all winter. Ate some, culled the stragglers, and kept the largest/best-looking. For the beets and swedes there are 6-8 selected roots of each. Not ideal but that's the space I have. There were plans to get a seed crop from the Avon Early beets I got from the HSL, but I scrapped that as they were not impressive. Looks like they've crossed with a chard.

Senposai has been springing up all over the allotment, and it appears that plenty of seeds made it to the compost pile. Now there are dozens of little senposai in the potted potatoes. I hoed out the ones in the ground as they had flea beetle damage and were in the way, but the stowaways in the pots with compost are the picture of health. I may prick them out eventually but shall leave them be until the potatoes poke through. I have noticed there are still many with trichomes; don't forget to only save seeds from the smooth-leaved plants.

I've opted for later sowings with peas this year. Sowed only a couple of varieties in March, a bunch in mid-April and the rest I'm sowing today. Last year I lost so much to the damp, cold weather and got fine crops from the late-spring sowings, so thought it best to err on the side of caution.

Not growing Phrik Key Nuu this year, but can confirm that the Sipka Belaja have germinated and grown excellently. The Malinalco tomatillos are flowering already - a day length thing?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on May 05, 2022, 06:24:55: Thank you for the advice not to save seeds from the hairy leaved types of Senposai. Will watch for that Vetivert. Your report of late seed development had me sowing relatively early. But I have also kept seeds back, thank you for a generous baggie, for another go if this is difficult here too.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on May 05, 2022, 06:39:04: Glad the Sipka Belaja has made a good start JanG. I have them sitting on the kitchen windowsill, they dried very easily. Take half of one and crush it with my fingers at cooking time. This makes pepper flakes, no mill needed. Can also be cut into fine flakes with the kitchen scissors. The flakes rehydrate very quickly during cooking. Heat is not lethal, but a little goes a long way. I used four in a large curry for eight persons and OH found it a little bit too hot, just right for me. We will have to add yoghurt to his next portion to cool it down. And remember to use half next time. I am afraid Ruud's Phrik Key Nuu is slumbering in the freezer. Wish I had grown them this year now.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: penedesenca on May 06, 2022, 14:15:32: Hi all, glad to see the circle is still going strong. (well done JanG) I am hoping to contribute this year if I am okay to join x x
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on May 06, 2022, 17:31:48: That'd be lovely, penedesenca :icon_cheers: This summer I'm hoping to finally taste the White Queen tomatoes you shared last time.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on May 07, 2022, 07:29:19: I liked your Fox Cherry tomato and it was pretty good with blight, Penedesenca.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: saddad on May 07, 2022, 18:03:59: Ooh, I haven't grown fox cherry for years, got them from HSL and grew them for over a decade, then somehow "lost" my saved seeds. Not seen them in the HSL catalogue since.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on May 08, 2022, 05:23:29: Really pleased to have you joining in again, Penedesenca. I hope your growing goes well.
I can vouch for the White Queen tomatoes. I grew them in 2020 and they did very well and tasted good.

The Fox Cherry unfortunately was before my time, so I can’t help out there, Saddad. But how about joining the Circle for sharing similar goodies?!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on May 22, 2022, 05:28:29: One of the varieties I’m hoping to contribute to the seed circle is an onion.

In late 2020 I ordered a range offered by the Experimental Farm Network in US, called Storage Onion Grex. It had been developed by Wild Mountain Seeds and selected for size, hardiness and beauty as well as for storage potential. In 2021, the results were good in all respects. Many of the onions were reddish. So this spring I selected the best 15 from storage and planted them for a seed crop. So far so good - lots of promising buds. I’ve never replanted onions for a seed crop before, so I’m excited to see how these do.

Does anyone else have any particular projects for seed saving this year?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on May 24, 2022, 00:49:25: Congrats on the budding onions! A couple of the surviving potato onions, plus a few Ouddorpse Bruine shallots are on their way to flower. Would be nice if they crossed up a bit.

I'm saving seeds from 'Deventer', a big Dutch winter storage beetroot. The Abundant Bloomsdale spinach is bolting, but it'll be a first for saving spinach seeds and I'm not confident about producing a quality crop.
Gul Svensk swede has new shoots and should do well if I can keep the pollen beetles away. They really had a go at the Senposai flowers last season. Speaking of - I may do another round of Senposai selection this year to eliminate some of the hairy-leaved genetics. They're volunteering all over the place. Already had dinner from the ones that sprung up between the potatoes. :toothy10:
I'm hoping to cross some lettuces this year, if the bolting times align. Is the Bijou you provided a heading variety or loose-leaf?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on May 25, 2022, 04:48:03: That sounds like a very intriguing range of seed saving - and breeding - projects.

There’s a whole world of possibilities from over-wintered root crops, either lifted and replanted or left in and surviving the winter. It’s a world I haven’t explored much yet and so your beetroot and swede plans will be interesting to follow.

I’ve grown spinach from my own saved seed for a few years now and haven’t noticed a decline in quality. Is it the number of plants which concerns you?

The Bijou lettuce is loose leaf, I’d say. I’m not sure that the picture helps much but it does perhaps indicate what a good deep red it is. Do you have a specific goal for your lettuce breeding?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on May 31, 2022, 20:30:53: Yes and the male:female ratio of plants could be an issue.

Is anyone growing the Boerentenen runner beans? It would be good to know if any outcrosses have come up.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 01, 2022, 05:34:54: As we were lucky enough to receive two large white seeded runner beans - Boerentenen and Judion - I rather randomly opted to grow the Judion and save the Boerentenen for next year.

There was some crossing in the El Beano broad beans but easy to rogue out.
I’ve not hit upon a successful method for keeping either runner or broad beans true. This year I bought some thin fleece which is tubular. I cut a length, perhaps two feet and put it over a stalk of broad bean, with rubber bands round the top and bottom of the fleece, after it had started flowering but before the top flowers had opened. My intention is to harvest seed from the top pods and see whether that works. I have previously wrapped a whole plant in mesh but, as they keep growing as they flower, the whole sheath has come adrift. I guess that making a tent rather more carefully and supporting it with some kind of props would be more likely to work.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 01, 2022, 06:22:55: A Geoff Hamilton cloche with fleece cover should work. I have limited experience with broad bean seed saving, but that worked for me without introducing pollinators. Not sure if all broad beans self pollinate enough and whether for the long term health outcrossing by pollinators is crucial. Maybe just the one variety and no special measures other than rogueing is the better approach.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 02, 2022, 07:03:37: Is a Geoff Hamilton cloche built from blue water pipe? It seems to me to be quite tricky to build a cloche tall enough to cover a group of broad bean plants. Some of them grow quite tall - 4ft? Possible I suppose but quite a major construction.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 02, 2022, 09:23:34: Yes, I see your point. My last broad bean saving was the small black Syrians that fit very easily. A relatively expensive solution would be to construct a 'build a ball' cage. https://www.harrodhorticultural.com/build-a-ball-connectors-12-pack-pid7577.html?Aff=GPL&gclid=CjwKCAjwv-GUBhAzEiwASUMm4v87k1o1A4FEu4_7LrRa6LrWOfVsPCVt9Wc7Kut7841xhKvPSBCEpRoC7vgQAvD_BwE

But a series of sturdy sticks or bamboos in the ground with fleece draped over, which needs upturned plastic bottles over the top of the sticks to stop the fleece from tearing, draped around the broad beans should also work. The bottles could be anything, but I have seen the tiny probiotic drinks bottles in use on an allotment visit for a temporary fruit cage with netting. No reason why fleece would not work just as well.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 04, 2022, 06:04:17: Thanks Galina. I use Build-a ball quite a lot with aluminium poles of various lengths, which I’ve collected over the years, so indeed a complete cage is quite possible. I think I was looking for a way to isolate a smaller amount - just the flowers perhaps on individual plants - so that if I grow six or seven different varieties, it’s not too great an undertaking. I’ll continue to experiment and, when very precious to me, will build a complete cage as you suggest.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 04, 2022, 10:22:01: Jan, Isolating individual flowers or flower trusses is easy with organza baggies. You know the wedding favour bags. They come in various sizes, their drawstrings makes fixing onto plants easy. And they are very reasonably priced.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 05, 2022, 18:52:31: Yes, I have some small ones but I think I need to get hold of some larger ones for clusters of broad bean flowers.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on June 21, 2022, 09:16:17: Is there a pruning technique for the tomatillos? I'd like them to grow a larger and bushier frame. Currently they're on one main stem with an umbrella-shaped canopy, with lots of flowers at the top. No idea whether this is normal and I should just let them get on with it.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 21, 2022, 09:20:46: I am not aware of a pruning technique. When too tall, stake and tie up is how I bring mine under control. As they take a longish time to mature fruit anyway, I would hesitate to wait for bushier sideshoot growth to come to fruition. But I am happy to learn if you experiment with pruning.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 22, 2022, 05:31:35: I grew tomatillos for the first time last year. I didn’t prune at all, nor did I find mine needed staking. They bushed out eventually but not all the way down. I think they simply stopped putting on height at about 2’6” to 3’ perhaps.
This year I’m finding Queen of Malinalco extra vigorous so it might exceed that height and outgrow its space on the greenhouse staging.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 22, 2022, 05:32:17: I grew tomatillos for the first time last year. I didn’t prune at all, nor did I find mine needed staking. They bushed out eventually but not all the way down. I think they simply stopped putting on height at about 2’6” to 3’ perhaps.
This year I’m finding Queen of Malinalco extra vigorous so it might exceed that height and outgrow its space on the greenhouse staging.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 22, 2022, 07:25:37: My Qu o M are in the corner of the greenhouse, leaning against the glass. On the inside of the group I have stuck 3 5ft bamboos into the ground. As the plants get taller I will 'corral' them with string between the bamboos on the inside, so they don't lean or fall onto the adjacent pepper plants further in the greenhouse.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 22, 2022, 08:55:03: We had a discussion about Pastoral and which seed type is the correct one. I have 5 plants, 4 with green stems and white flowers. They are now just over 5 foot tall and flowering. The odd one out which I planted to the side of the group out has a reddish stem, lilac purple flower and tops the 8ft support already. Hybrid vigor? I suspect the white flowering, slightly less vigorous plants are the correct version. Will observe further.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on June 22, 2022, 14:59:27: One of the QoM plants has an egg-sized fruit. Poor thing is still in a 9cm pot. I'm wondering if they would do better outside the polytunnel with plenty of room. It does get extremely hot in there.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on June 23, 2022, 05:43:58: My Q of M responded very quickly to being potted on into a 1.5 litre pot and is twice the size of a couple of others I was much slower to pot on.No fruit yet.

I’m struggling to remember the details of the discussion about Pastoral but last year mine had the two colours of flower too. It was the white-flowered plants which were the first of any of my beans to produce pods.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on June 23, 2022, 06:52:13: Not here yet, but they are definitely at the early end of the spectrum. First tiny beans here are on Salewski's Ungarn.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on July 20, 2022, 12:13:48: 5 varieties of ripe tomatoes, nice and early and 3 of the 5 were from this seed circle. Cerise, Orange Bourgoin an early salad tom from Ferme St Marthe, then circle toms Burmese Sour, Dehybridised Sungold (they are so good!) and Pamplemousse de Grand Pere outdoors! The latter took so long germinating, I had nearly given up on them, but huge and very early for a large tomato. Thank you for these new to me and very tasty and early tomatoes.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on July 22, 2022, 05:21:11: Great that you’re having such excellent results. I grew the Pamplemousse last year and enjoyed it very much too.
Was the dehybridised Sungold from my seed or from an earlier contribution? Mine is still a little variable so, if from mine, I’m very pleased you have a good’un.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on July 22, 2022, 07:02:24: They were from your seed. More red than orange, but t h a t flavour! Wonderful and early to boot.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on July 24, 2022, 14:02:39: I am currently fermenting seeds of these yummy cherry tomatoes, Fruity Yellow, bred by Tim Peters. Hope to add for the seed circle all being well.

The plants are very tall and strong and the flavour of these cherry toms is really good. Occasionally there is a red fruiting plant which also tastes good, but these were grown from yellows and are yellow this year, so let us hope they will all be yellow for you too. A sort of golden yellow. I received the original seeds from the Internet Tomato Trials which were held in 1999 and 2000, where we got tomatoes that were identified by a letter only and after reporting back, we got to know what variety we had been sent. The organiser tried to match locations to suitable tomatoes and these have always been good in England both greenhouse and outdoors, with considerable blight resistance too.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on July 25, 2022, 06:17:09: These sound like they have everything going for them, especially flavour and some blight resistance, and an interesting history too. Looking forward!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on July 26, 2022, 19:20:32: Queen of Malinalco - oh yeah! Fruit bowl or tomato salad, can't decide. We just munched our first out of hand. That wonderful smell and flavour. A lovely surprise, thank you.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on July 27, 2022, 06:28:02: Oh dear. I lost mine in the 40 degrees we had last week. They’re giants of plants and I hadn’t kept up and potted them into big enough pots.
Luckily seeds enough for next year. Might put a couple into polytunnel soil to find their own size and vigour. How big did your plants grow?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on July 27, 2022, 12:50:40: Have literally just scraped seeds for next year, so able to share if you are a bit short. Plants are around 5ft or just a tad shorter, in the greenhouse corner, planted into soil, and seem to have come through the heat ok. But I did notice a flush of early fruit which we have just eaten, and the next batch will be ripening in a few weeks. A bit of a production stop for some reason, maybe the extreme heat for over a week. I wonder whether they would do well outside too.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on July 29, 2022, 06:05:52: Yes, I completely under-estimated their potential size. The basic tomatillo I grew before remained quite compact and sat quite happily in pots on greenhouse staging. Definitely for polytunnel bed next season . Trying outside is an interesting thought too.
Thanks for the offer of shared seeds. The packet from Ruud was generous so I should be OK unless I manage to mess it up again!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on August 12, 2022, 17:50:45: It looks like there will be a good beetroot and radicchio seed harvest. :icon_cheers:
Last year the lettuce flower heads were plagued by some big caterpillars, and the same is true this season. I think they are cabbage moth - they eat all of the developing seeds out of the side of the ovary. I should be able to salvage some of the red lettuce seeds but they've eaten most of the Trout seemingly overnight... very annoying...
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 13, 2022, 05:00:26: How very annoying - and surprising that cabbage moths would depart from their brassica hunt. I’ve never come across anything preying on lettuce seed heads.

My seed failure this season is onion. I was full of hope that I would be able to save onion seeds by replanting 15 best specimens. However, the plants succumbed badly to mildew and before the seed heads could fully mature, they lost vigour and withered away. In my other area I also let some spring onions form seed heads. They looked promising for ages but again mildew overtook them before the seeds could mature. Either it’s a bad year for mildew (which I think it is) or this is a common problem with saving onion seeds. I’ll keep trying though.

Well done on the raddichio. The seeds always seem tantalisingly hidden away, deep set in the drying flower head - but retrievable, hopefully. Happy retrieving!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on August 13, 2022, 17:58:11: Very sorry to hear that Jan, it's disappointing to lose any seed crop let alone the best selections nurtured over two seasons. I don't think I've ever seen onion mildew, and certainly wouldn't have expected it to be a problem with this season's weather. Will you be trying onions again?

Attached a photo of the caterpillars from last season...
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 14, 2022, 06:34:50: A sad sight on your lettuce seeds. It certainly looks very like cabbage moth, which still seems rather strange. Does it seem as though the cabbage moths must have laid eggs on the lettuce flower heads or were there brassicas close by from which the caterpillars could have crawled?

From Gardening Know How: Onions With Powdery Mildew – Tips On Treating Onion Powdery Mildew https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/edible/vegetables/onion/treating-onion-powdery-mildew.htm
“Powdery mildew on onions is most prevalent in the hot, dry conditions of summer months that have followed cool, wet spring weather”
I suppose that fits conditions here this season, but I believe other parts of the country (eg.Charles Dowding) have also had problems with mildew this year. I hope you continue to avoid encountering it!

I think I’ll try onion seed production again though as my onion crop generally this year is below par, I might decide to skip a year and wait until I have some finer specimens.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on August 15, 2022, 16:48:15: They laid eggs there on both occasions, as no brassicas have been in the vicinity. Found a few yesterday on some heading lettuce, too. I actually haven't seen a cabbage moth caterpillar on anything other than lettuce here... Diamondback moths are the main pest on my brassicas.

It could be that our local dry spring spared us from the widespread onion mildew. Saw some huge specimens on neighbouring allotments. Perhaps, in their second year, growing the bulbs in pots of fresh compost in a polytunnel would protect them from the disease. Fingers crossed for future attempts. There's definitely incentive to save one's own onion seeds; what's on offer commercially can be hit and miss, mainly miss.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 16, 2022, 05:59:33: You have opened my eyes to the array of potential winged pests. My attention has been totally taken up with the two types of cabbage white butterfly which are certainly a threat to my brassicas. I’m not aware of the presence of either cabbage moth or diamondback moth here, or certainly not as a pest. I wonder what accounts for the difference.

Your suggestion re growing onions for seed in the polytunnel, either in pots or in the ground, is helpful, although my spray watering can be a bit hit and miss. Certainly worth thinking about and taking care with.

What kind of problems have you had with commercial onion seed? Germination or subsequent growth?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on August 16, 2022, 14:03:24: Sorry about your lettuce problems Vetivert. I had tiny white caterpillars very similar in appearance to pea moths a couple of times, but never so many that the seed harvest was endangered. Sorry to hear about your troubles. We are now harvesting lettuce seeds of several varieties.

And your onion woes Jang. I can't grow onions easily either, but things are a bit better this year.

As part of growing all my Ukrainian seeds this year, Ukrainian beetroot from HSL is looking good and hope to overwinter for seeding next year. Carrot Solvita is also looking fine, again I hope to save seeds next year from them.

Have just cut and put into storage 4 different courgettes. As they are showing storage colours, the green ones getting orange hues and the white ones beige pinkish. These were all handpollinated very early on, the first fruit on all of them. I would not normally cut this early, but they are ready. We have Hungarian Zucchini, Striato d'Italia, Long white Trailing from HSL and Bianco Lungo. So if you can use 4 different types of courgette, I should be able to harvest and dry seeds well in time for the seed circle deadline. Currently they are on a sunny shelf hardening off.

Also various tomatoes are being fermented right now. And cucumber Beit Alpha, which we originally got from Jayb. The earliest fruits in the greenhouse were allowed to turn yellow on the plants and now they are cut and also maturing on the shelf.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 17, 2022, 06:01:57: That sounds a great haul of potential seeds,Galina.
My results with alliums vary. I usually get a good crop of leeks and acceptably good of garlic. I have some good seed heads on St Victor’s leek at the moment, so we’ll see how they go.

Great achievement with the multiple courgette pollination. I hand pollinated Alberello Genovese courgette at the beginning of the season. The plant has just grown the one huge fruit. I imagine I need to leave it on the plant until it begins to change colour. Of course it means sacrificing your crop from that plant for probably the whole season.

It looks like we might well be courgette rich in the seed circle this year. 👍 Mine probably won’t be ready in time but four will be plenty of excitement!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on August 17, 2022, 08:25:04: The Long White Trailing from HSL is a little different from ordinary courgettes. Flesh denser and according to HSL also good as a marrow. We will see whether this is true, if we can still eat the flesh after seed harvest. The Hungarian Zucchini comes from the lady in Colorado, whose family hails from Hungary and she collects Hungarian varieties. No further variety name known to her. An early green zucchini with tiny white dots, which have now turned yellow on the marrow sized seed fruits. The Striato as the name implies is green with white stripes, a week or so later than the Hungarian. The white Bianco Lungo is very long and slender, a bit snake like, whereas the white trailing variety is shorter with some ribbing at the shoulders by the stem and much broader.

Alberello Genovese is new to me and would be great for the next year. Have just googled it, seems the Italians like their courgettes striped.

I have 2 fruit from the Hungarian zucchini and one of them did just that. The plant spent all its energy on the one fruit, whereas the other one produced a slightly smaller seed marrow, but carried on making a few more courgettes, probably now at a faster rate with the seed fruit gone. Mildew is starting here, so we many not have the courgette plants for much longer. It is good to have achocha fruit as substitute to fall back on this year, which don't have this problem.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 18, 2022, 06:43:03: The Alberello Genovese has matured into a large pale marrow-sized fruit. Unfortunately I didn’t record its appearance when young but I think it was pale green with slight mottling.

I haven’t been able to find the name Alberello Genovese online. The seed came from my Italian donor who is not known for accuracy in naming but, on the positive side, does have many rarer Italian forms within his collection. The name Alberello di Sarzana appears fairly frequently and may be similar. I must observe more closely next season. If you found reference to Alberello Genovese do let me know but at the moment in my mind there is some confusion around this variety.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on August 18, 2022, 10:15:31: Is it not this one? Maybe not. https://seedsofitaly.com/courgette-gartenkurbis-alberello-leben/

Or could it be this? https://www.ingegnoli.it/ita/zucchino-genovese.html#:~:text=1385%20%2D%20ZUCCHINO%20%2DGENOVESE%2D&text=%C3%88%20un'ottima%20selezione%20del,frutti%20ed%20anche%20di%20fiori.

Alberello just means 'sapling' according to google translate. So if the Genovese is what describes this courgette and Alberello is applicable to several courgettes, plus given your description, could it be this one?
https://www.premierseedsdirect.com/product/italian-courgette-genovese-organic/
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on August 18, 2022, 12:04:59: Germination in the main issue I've encountered, JanG. Not from all suppliers, bunching onions from Real Seeds and Premier Seeds being exceptions, but most have been very poor.

Those courgettes all look excellent and would be new to me. :toothy10: I've been enjoying Rugosa Friulana and Romanesco a little too much this season and my resolve to save seeds vanished once we started eating them. Both are relatively dry and the RF in particular is quite firm and excellent in stir-fries. The plants are healthy so it may still be possible to get a couple ripe fruit before the season ends.

The melons have set fruit and are growing away happily but I don't want to count my chickens...
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 19, 2022, 07:36:09: The Alberello Genovese resembles the Genovese courgettes you link to, Galina, rather than the Alberello di Sarzana, so I think Genovese probably is the operative term.

Rugosa friulana looks fascinating too!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on August 20, 2022, 14:30:33: One of my favourite Jayb bred potatoes is her cross between Pink Fir Apple and Inky Squid. Large, dark purple potatoes, which are blue and white on the inside growing on tall and healthy plants. They must be full of cancer fighting and health giving anthocyanin. Flavour is very good and chestnutty especially just washed and baked or microwaved. They are also fertile and have produced a lot of berries this year from white flowers.

Would tps from these berries be of interest for the circle?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on August 20, 2022, 14:37:46: From Jeannine and Jayb's big parcel came this gem from Wild Boar Farms. Pink Boar. Very attractive brownish pink tomato with green stripes and rich and deep flavour. And an early yellow beefsteak tomato, Rosalie's Early Orange. This was originally also from the Internet Tomato Trials, where the organiser sent us mystery seeds and after we returned our reports, we got to know the names of the tomatoes we had grown. Grown both outdoors and greenhouse in Rushden whereas Pink Boar was greenhouse grown in Rushden.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on August 20, 2022, 22:16:54: TPS would certainly be of interest to me, sounds like a lovely potato! What generation would they be? Those tomatoes look excellent, too.

I have questions about the Gilfeather 'turnip', which I saw was in the circle many years ago. Does it behave more like a turnip or swede in its rate of growth? Do you think I'd be able to get a crop of small roots if I were to sow it now with the rest of the autumn turnips?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on August 21, 2022, 06:59:43: I would say definitely yes to all three. If potato flowers self-pollinate, I suppose the parentage of this variety is likely to show up in its offspring.

I’m growing Pink Furry Boar this season, so that could make a fitting companion for Pink Boar perhaps.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on August 21, 2022, 20:52:39: The generation doesn't matter in the same way it normally does, as I got a starter tuber from Jayb. Once you have got a tuber from a tps plant and start multiplying vegetatively from that tuber, the variety is fixed and no substantial differences are expected, apart from much better yields grown from full sized tubers, rather than the initial mini tubers grown from seed.

This is a tetraploid potato, so more variable than a diploid variety if self pollinated, but anything grown from those seed should still somewhat resemble the parents. I did however have other potatoes flowering at the same time, that made no seed balls. A further cross is therefore also possible. I had Snookie (also from Jayb) flowering at the time, which is Pink Fir Apple x Kifli, but no berries and my own number 9, a red skinned tps from Picasso, again no berries.

I can only guess about Gilfeather, but for ordinary turnips of the quick growing types, the time is definitely right. Also for the black winter radish. US sites say Gilfeather needs about 3 months to mature, which we no longer have. Maybe should have sown in July. I could kick myself as I had intended to grow them too this year, but missed the right time.

Must google Pink Furry Boar. Sounds a nice partner tomato.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 10, 2022, 07:37:21: The year seems to be progressing alarmingly rapidly and it has been quite a challenging one, in our varied locations I imagine, with its very high temperatures and drought conditions.

I hope seed gathering has been able to proceed in spite of these difficulties, and now we’re at the point of needing to agree on a deadline for sending in this season’s seed offerings. For the last two years our small but very productive band of participants have worked to send in seeds by the end of November. Does that still look good for everyone?

As we sort our seeds perhaps we can begin to list some varieties we think we can offer. I write as someone who has a bench entirely covered with little pots of seeds which need to be cleaned, packeted and labelled. But I hope to be able to say in the next few days what I’d like to contribute.

So how’s it going? What are your thoughts about aiming for the end of November?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 10, 2022, 12:01:11: That is fine for me Jang, good to have a timescale to work towards. I think I have been mentioning seeds as I went along when I could see how the harvest was going, barring last minute disasters as always.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on September 10, 2022, 15:22:45: That's fine by me too, Jang. I have to germ. test a few things before I'm 100% certain they'll fit the bill, nevertheless I have a long list of varieties that I'd like to include.
It certainly has been a very tough growing season. Recently we've had a good bit of rain and the beans are really flourishing, after struggling for most of the summer.
And the lettuces, that had every single flower devoured by caterpillars, are in bloom again!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 10, 2022, 18:18:28: :icon_cheers: So pleased about more lettuce flowers for you. You were so down with the caterpillars ravaging them. Good conditions for seed development and not too much damp weather to ripen them.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 11, 2022, 06:32:34: That’s excellent to hear from both of you. Great news about the lettuce flowers. At the moment here, we seem to be having rain most days so the one threat to seed harvesting is constant dampness. Quite a change from earlier! But much is safely gathered in already and such a relief not to have to worry about struggling plants and watering.

I look forward to your long list, Vetivert, and certainly, Galina, you have mentioned many interesting varieties already, so a promising time lies ahead.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on September 11, 2022, 07:12:48: I'd like to include Velmozha. Semi-determinate pink oxheart from Russia. Fruit below is 590g.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 12, 2022, 06:34:57: That’s quite a whopper. Looks like a very interesting contribution.

How do you find it’s best to manage semi-determinate varieties? I’ve found it difficult to know whether to prune, or how much to prune to encourage an upright habit. The one semi-determinate I’ve grown this year was over-pruned I think, and so lost quite a lot of its potential for fruiting. Perhaps the important thing is to give them quite a lot of space?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 12, 2022, 12:04:16: Bush, aka determinate, can be left to sprawl, but better with a short stake and if necessary a tie too, so not to lose fruit on the muddy ground or where slugs can get them.

Semi determinate I always stake with a decent stake, tie, but don't prune.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 13, 2022, 06:25:19: So, Galina, you treat them as determinate but with a bit more support?
And would you allow them a lot of space - about a square metre to each plant? In practice I find it quite difficult to accommodate their needs.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 13, 2022, 08:15:52: Not quite that much distance Jang, but I tend to pack in plants anyway. 40 to 50cm between plants of the same variety, with bigger row spacings to get in for picking is my usual spacing. This is still way too tight for comfortable picking and I always end up with a jungle to tie up, especially here, where plants tend to grow bigger with more rainfall and not just the tomatoes. With huge fruit like Vetivert's Velmozha, that equates to quite a lot of tying in to take the weight. So not a very good solution here either and far too much work keeping them under control. Metal tomato spirals work best for me.

Talking about high yielding tomatoes, I am getting pounds and pounds from just 2 plants of Silverleaf's Black Cherries. I was surprised at their colour, which is not brown like the usual 'black' tomato, but dark, dusky purple, very delish and the yield is something else.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on September 14, 2022, 12:00:58: Because of the jungle in the polytunnel I have pruned Velmozha to two main stems and a few branches on each stem. I do not know if this is the best practice. I'd say it's more on the indeterminate side in term of the shape of the plant - it's more viney than bushy, and is controlled by a couple of strings.
With the Dwarf Tomato Project varieties, which are dwarf indeterminate, I haven't pruned them except for the older leaves below the main fruit trusses (or entire limbs damaged by cabbage moth caterpillars, but that's another story). :BangHead:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 15, 2022, 07:15:39: Two main stems sounds like a good compromise for Velmozha. I’m growing Urbikany at the moment which is determinate and vigorous. I have two plants out of doors and made each a circle of cattle panel fencing of nearly a metre diameter. Even so they’re reaching out in all directions and in practice grow through the fencing and down onto the ground again.
I’m enjoying Black Cherry too. It is apparently a parent of Chocolate Cherry which is also high yielding and full flavoured.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on September 16, 2022, 09:01:52: Speaking of cherry toms I'll be sharing most of the Ambrosia series including Ambrosia Gold, Pink, Red, Rose UBX, and Blue Ambrosia. I hope you all have a sweet tooth. :drunken_smilie:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 17, 2022, 06:19:12: That sounds amazing. Is it a series bred by J & L? In a Tomatoville thread of 2018, there were one or two reports of instability. Did you find the ones you grew were stable?
I do like a sweet tomato! So very much looking forward.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on September 17, 2022, 13:56:02: Yes, they're from J&L, and they all look true to type. Ambrosia Pink is unusual, it isn't your traditional pink tomato colour, more of an apricot with blush that gets progressively more intense as it ripens.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 23, 2022, 09:41:34: Would anybody like a few Giant Bolivian Achocha seeds, which might have (or have not) undergone a genetic shift in the much hotter, brighter climate here? Have just harvested a couple of buckets of fruit and many black, ripe seeds.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 24, 2022, 06:59:09: An interesting offer. I haven’t grown achocha for a couple of years. I gave the convenient piece of fencing over to Tromboncino squash for a while.
So a couple of questions come to mind. One is to wonder how long achocha seed stays viable as I have some from 2020. The other is to wonder what implications your possible genetic shift might have. Is it simply likely to be less inclined to fruit well in cooler, duller conditions?
I know you also experimented with day length etc. it would be interesting to experiment and simply see what emerges. On the other hand, achocha is so vigorous that it’s a lot of growing space to give to something which might not work well. I guess more certainty about my first wondering might determine how I feel about the second. I think I need to try a germination test on my old seed.
Sorry to be so long-winded and still uncertain! And thank you again for raising the idea.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 24, 2022, 08:23:21: I think 3 years is nothing for achocha seeds JanG. Would not even seed renew before 5 years, but I have spare seeds in the freezer to fall back on.

If this plant has indeed experienced micro mutations, future plants from its seed may be fruiting earlier here too and hopefully also in UK. But who knows. Except that this batch has started fruiting well before the autumn equinox - we harvested lots of fruit - rather than only after the autumn equinox as was the case in UK. But as you say, I already had them flowering here by the spring equinox from a January sowing, which made Giant Bolivian Achocha growing possible at all for me. After two failed seasons with the usual May sowing, when frost killed them before they fruited here I had to think of doing something differently :happy7:. Now at the autumn equinox we just got the first slightly frost damaged leaves after
a low of 1.2C at night, although most of the plant is still going. Growing outside rather than in the greenhouse was also the better decision.

The test question for me is whether I should now sow again in January from these seeds or whether they have climate adjusted and I could now also get earlier fruits from a May sowing. A May sowing would be much more convenient as I would not have to transplant an already large plant. It is really all still an experiment, but I am very glad to be harvesting fruits again.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 25, 2022, 06:05:46: Yes, an interesting dilemma. I guess ideally you would back both horses for this one year and sow in January as insurance, but hope that the May-sown might make it, and your January plant might prove to have been unnecessary.
But your fruit this year was a just reward for your insight and persistence.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 25, 2022, 06:14:14: That is the conclusion I came to also, JanG.

One day it will be as easy to grow these as it is with the smaller fruited achochas, Ladies Slipper and Fat Baby. We just have to persist until that adaptation happens.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on September 27, 2022, 17:36:42: Before last orders are called, would this be acceptable ( I have not grown them) or of interest?
I have ordered seed from Adam Alexander , his seeds have a story , some a touch of romance others of daring do and not without flavour too the best bit . I have chosen seven varieties, some of the tomato names would not be out of place on a Farrow and Ball paint chart , in fact the bean and pea also.
If this is a reasonable addition to the circle I will gladly divvy up the spoils.
Cheers.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on September 27, 2022, 20:29:50: Great to hear from you, Markfield Rover.
I, for one, think that would be a very acceptable contribution to the Circle. I think it’s true to say that while passing on seeds from a commercial source wouldn’t at all be within the spirit of the exchange, it is quite a different matter to share seeds which have come straight from Adam Alexander, who has gone far further than most of us in sourcing varieties which would otherwise be unknown outside a confined area.

Also of course, you have been a loyal participant in the Circle over the years and have contributed a great number of seeds for varieties you’ve grown yourself, so it’s lovely that you’ve offered a way in which you can continue your involvement for this year.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 28, 2022, 10:57:12: I enjoyed lovely seed gifts from Adam, donated by you, either directly or from your own saved seeds with good harvests. This proposal is very attractive as an alternative to your own seeds, which we have benefited from in the past. I sincerely hope, however, that you are well and you will again be able to enjoy gardening and seed saving. I fully agree with Jan's decision here.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on September 28, 2022, 11:01:29: Thank you for many excellent seeds Markfield Rover.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on September 28, 2022, 12:36:15: Thank you both so much, very kind. Seed saving didn’t really happen this year but a big bonus was the circle seeds especially Jen’s Tangerine and Coyote and a forgotten flavour from many a seventies cheesecake Ground cherry, seeds already saved , so getting back into the swing of it.
Thanks again .
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on September 28, 2022, 14:49:47: Absolutely agree with JanG and galina, lovely to have you involved again this year Markfield :)
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on September 28, 2022, 16:24:44: Thank you Vetivert , I selected seeds that had something about them, and as I didn’t go to the effort of growing them I can certainly get my paintbox out to highlight their features.Adam Alexander has written a book ,Seed Detective which maybe a good read , he did give me extra Syrian broad beans to pass onto some newly arrived Syrians who had taken plot , there’s a symmetry there somewhere!
Glad to be aboard. Cheers.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on September 30, 2022, 10:37:25: Hello everybody it is a while i wrote something,but i havenot sit still.Collecting seeds is now the main thing.Some beans i grow are still green and need some time to mature.Tomatoes are almost all done.I will come back on the varieties i send to the seedcircle.Have a nice weekend.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on September 30, 2022, 14:13:59: Hi, I hope it's not too late to join in. I haven't participated before but I've saved seeds this year in anticipation.

I've saved the following tomatoes:
Chadwick Cherry (large red cherry vine)
Auntie Madge's (small red plum vine)
Golden Grape (small yellow cherry bush)
Ciliegia Cerise (small red cherry bush)
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 01, 2022, 06:27:02: Great to have you taking part again as usual, Ruud. I’ve enjoyed your contributions so much over the last few years. I’m working towards getting my list of offerings together too. Looking forward to firming these up very soon.

Hello Garrett. That’s a great list of tomato varieties. It will be very good to have you involved. Are tomatoes your special interest?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on October 01, 2022, 12:39:38: I do particularly like tomatoes. I have some others saved, but didn't know if there would be interest.

I also have:
Galina Yellow (yellow cherry vine, potato leaved)
Brad's Atomic Grape (multicoloured cherry vine)
Matt's Hornet (red and orange elongated cherry vine)

I did not like the Brad's and Matt's at all, I found them too sweet with little tang and couldn't eat them. I'm happy to include them if anyone is curious about trying them though. Lots of people seem to love the Brad's and it was a very productive and vigorous plant for me, but just not to my taste.

I figured everyone must already have the Galina Yellow, but maybe they don't!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on October 01, 2022, 13:27:24: Welcome Garrett! Lovely to have you as a new participant this year, and hopefully for many years to come! :wave:
Isn't that the thing with taste? It's so subjective and even more so when it comes to the nuances of tomatoes. Hopefully the Ambrosia series tomatoes I'm sending this year won't be too sweet for you, though they are pretty up there on the brix readings. The pink and gold ones can taste remarkably sweet, fruity, but with some acidity. The red is my favourite, like a tiny rich breakfast tomato.

Very excited to see you here, ruud. :icon_cheers: The Noir de Belgique produced a climber from which I've just harvested some seeds. I think it might be a cross as the pods are slightly silver in appearance compared to the pods of the dwarf plants. Do let me know if you would like some seeds back. It was earlier to crop than the dwarf plants, too.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on October 01, 2022, 16:44:43: Welcome Garrett , I hope to reveal my tomatoes soon ,hopefully a few new to you. I love a sweet tomato especially with salty cheese. Sweet potato on the other hand doesn’t cross the threshold!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on October 01, 2022, 23:17:12: Hello from someone who hasn't been around for a very long time. [waves] I've had several difficult years, but I'm back to growing fruit and veg again and it's been just wonderful.

You might not want someone who's been completely absent joining, and I totally appreciate that you might not - but if there were space for one more I would love to join in.

I have a couple of squash varieties (Thelma Sanders & Potimarron) that I isolated and will be drying a good amount of seed from this month.

As a slightly random question too, does anyone remember the cara la virgin de la baneza leon beans that were in the circle some years ago? And know where I might be able to find some? Mine aren't viable anymore, and they were my favourite bean to grow.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 02, 2022, 06:12:23: Hello Sparrow. I’m sure I speak for others in the Circle when I say that I’d be delighted to have you on board. I remember your name from seed circle notes etc and think you participated regularly until just before I joined. And how lovely that you’ve come through your difficult times and are enjoying growing again. Your squash varieties will be a great contribution. Welcome back!

I have seeds of the unpronounceable bean which were donated to the Circle by Silverleaf last year but which I haven’t yet grown. There are plenty to share. Someone else might have 2022 seed to offer but you are welcome to a share of my 2021 seed if not.

Are you and Garrett OK with an end of November deadline? It’s a bit of a rush but we’ve found it has worked well for the last couple of years.

I also found Brad’s Atomic Grape rather a disappointment taste-wise. It does seem to be very popular at the moment but I don’t share the enthusiasm.
I know Yellow Galina simply as Galina. Do you know when or how the ‘yellow’ in your strain, Garrett, came to be added or which is the original name?
I’d be interested to try Matt’s Hornet. I confess to liking sweet tomatoes but I agree that it’s good if they have some tang too, I’m looking forward to Vetivert’s Ambrosia series, and it will be interesting to try Matt’s Hornet too. I wonder whether it’s the same Matt as in Matt’s Wild Cherry!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 02, 2022, 10:12:39: These are the seeds I'm hoping to contribute to the Circle all being well. I'll add notes about the different varieties in due course. I also have plenty of seed of Dill, Land Cress, Calendula and Corn Salad if anyone wants to boost their stocks

Tomatoes
Ananas Noir
Pink Furry Boar
Yellow Submarine
Lotos

Lettuce
Cantarix
Rossa di Trento
Black-seeded Simpson

True Potato Seed
Salad Blue
Ambo

Pea
Blue Prussian
Carlin
Green Beauty

Climbing French Bean
Astrid
Extra Hatif de Juillet
Herrenböhnli

Dwarf French Bean
Jacob’s Cattle

Leek
D'Hiver de St Victor
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 02, 2022, 11:02:19: I've enjoyed doing a trawl through the 2022 thread up to now, and have gathered together participants and any seeds which have been mentioned as possible contributions. Obviously this is by no means binding! Growing moves on all the time of course. But I thought it might be useful to take an overview and I have to say it's all looking very exciting! Do say if things have changed and you want/need to subtract or add to or clarify what I've put here.
For your planning, we are at the moment seven participants

Markfield Rover - seeds from Adam Alexander - yet to specify

Ruud - yet to specify

Vetivert
beetroot, swede, radicchio, spinach.
Tomato - Velmozha, Ambrosia series - Ambrosia Gold, Pink, Red, Rose UBX, and Blue Ambrosia,

Galina
Tomato - Fruity Yellow, Pink Boar, Rosalie's Early Orange
Courgette - Hungarian Zucchini, Striato d'Italia, Long white Trailing from HSL and Bianco Lungo
Cucumber - Beit Alpha
Tps - Pink Fir Apple/Inky Squid cross
Achocha - Giant Bolivian

Garrett
Tomatoes -Chadwick Cherry (large red cherry vine), Auntie Madge's (small red plum vine), Golden Grape (small yellow cherry bush), Ciliegia Cerise (small red cherry bush), Galina Yellow (yellow cherry vine, potato leaved), Brad's Atomic Grape (multicoloured cherry vine), Matt's Hornet (red and orange elongated cherry vine)

Sparrow
Squash - Thelma Sanders & Potimarron
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on October 02, 2022, 11:48:12: I call Galina "Galina Yellow" because that's the name it had on my original seed packet so I've always used it. I doubt it's a different strain and it should just be Galina.

Matt's Hornet info:
“Matt’s Hornet” is a segregate from Matt's Folly, which is a cross by Tom Wagner of Matt's Wild Cherry and Casady's Folly. This segregate of Matt's Folly was named Matt's Hornet because of the bullet shape. So it looks like it's Matt's Wild Cherry's grandchild!

I might have some french beans too, they're still drying so I don't know how many I'll end up with. What's the usual quantity for the seed swap, 5-6 beans, a dozen tomato seeds?

Late November is fine for me.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 02, 2022, 12:40:03: Thanks for the further info, Garrett. I'm not sure that Matt of Matt's Wild Cherry tomato deserves to have his name live on with such distinguished lineage as he apparently only acquired the original wild cherry from a Mexican friend and simply insured that they became available.
10-12 tomato seeds is certainly generous enough. We probably tend to go to nearer 10 for French beans but if they're in short supply, and especially if they're unusual or particularly interesting, 5-6 is fine, particularly for climbing beans. So there's a varied amount offered, depending on how much is available.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on October 02, 2022, 21:27:43: Quote from: JanG on October 02, 2022, 06:12:23
Hello Sparrow. I’m sure I speak for others in the Circle when I say that I’d be delighted to have you on board. I remember your name from seed circle notes etc and think you participated regularly until just before I joined. And how lovely that you’ve come through your difficult times and are enjoying growing again. Your squash varieties will be a great contribution. Welcome back!

I have seeds of the unpronounceable bean which were donated to the Circle by Silverleaf last year but which I haven’t yet grown. There are plenty to share. Someone else might have 2022 seed to offer but you are welcome to a share of my 2021 seed if not.

Are you and Garrett OK with an end of November deadline? It’s a bit of a rush but we’ve found it has worked well for the last couple of years.

Oh wow! I can't tell you how delighted I'd be to have some of those beans to grow again. Thank you, that is really very kind.

Thanks too for letting me join. I'm sorry I only have 2 varieties to offer this year. Yes, late November would be fine for me - this week is roast squash week just to make sure the seeds have plenty of time to dry out.

The Thelma Sanders squash have outdone themselves. I have 4 hand-pollinated squashes and a total of 16 proper-sized squashes and a few tiddlers from just 3 plants this year. I have access to the back of an old local muckheap and I'm crediting that with my success!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 03, 2022, 06:11:55: Isolating squash varieties can take some doing so your squash seeds are specially appreciated for that, Sparrow.

Hopefully the selection of seeds from the Circle will give an added boost next season to your obvious enjoyment in growing again after a pause.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 04, 2022, 10:15:27: I have a courgette which I hand pollinated and would like to contribute seeds of. It fruited quite early in the season, perhaps by the end of May or early June. It has been of a large marrow size ever since then and pale yellow in colour but, as it was pale to start with, the change in colour isn't at all dramatic. I picked it about 10 days ago.

I'm not sure of the best way to treat it. Should I leave it to mature a bit longer off the vine? This excellent seed-saving series of videos - https://www.diyseeds.org/en/films/ - recommends a month. If I do that, the seed will still have more than a month to dry out before the end of November which hopefully will be enough. Any advice from anyone who has more experience of saving courgette seed? I'd really hate to open it up before it's mature and viable after having watched it sit there for several months.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 04, 2022, 10:35:12: I have a question do we stick to vegetables or can we add some flowerseeds?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 04, 2022, 14:07:14: I think the seeds would appreciate post harvest maturing off the plant. If the plant has been full size for some time, it isn't as necessary to keep it on the plant anymore. For whatever reason post harvest maturing is a good thing according to what I have read, especially if the fruit is further matured in sunshine. Not sure whether the plant sends a signal to seeds that it is now no longer on the plant, for seeds to mature that doesn't happen while on the plant. I hope you can get the definitive answer JanG. For what it is worth I have always been told to let seeds mature after harvest, in other words off the plant. This is the sort of thing that Ben from Real Seeds could probably better advise on.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 04, 2022, 14:27:54: This is what i have to share in the seedcircle till now.
tomatoes:grasa de bihor
royal hillybilly
croatie jeanne
pine-apple pig
pink icicle
legend
gogashary striped
abraham lincoln
beans: haricot mais
la vache
bosnian yellow
squaw
panther
aubergine: topan
peppers: mozart (sweet)
demre-t ( sweet)
yalova carliston (mild)
menderes (hot)
There are some more beans but it depends on how quick they mature and dry.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on October 04, 2022, 16:01:05: ruud, beautiful list of vegetables there! To answer your question.. I'm not entirely sure but I have been planning to add some flower seeds this year.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 04, 2022, 18:02:35: Ruud, like Vetivert I'm in favour of including some flower seeds. Obviously edible flowers are automatically included - nasturtiums, borage etc. But I'm feeling more and more that mixing ornamental flowers in amongst vegetables is very nourishing for the whole growing environment as well as for our joy in our growing.

And such a wonderful list of varieties. Nearly all new to me, so very exciting!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 04, 2022, 18:07:22: Quote from: galina on October 04, 2022, 14:07:14
I think the seeds would appreciate post harvest maturing off the plant. If the plant has been full size for some time, it isn't as necessary to keep it on the plant anymore. For whatever reason post harvest maturing is a good thing according to what I have read, especially if the fruit is further matured in sunshine. Not sure whether the plant sends a signal to seeds that it is now no longer on the plant, for seeds to mature that doesn't happen while on the plant. I hope you can get the definitive answer JanG. For what it is worth I have always been told to let seeds mature after harvest, in other words off the plant. This is the sort of thing that Ben from Real Seeds could probably better advise on.

Galina, thank you for your answer. That certainly agrees with and elaborates on the seed-saving video I linked to above. Based on your experience do you think a month off the plant and a month to dry is about enough? I've just checked Real Seeds and they say a month or so. I could perhaps have picked it earlier but fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 05, 2022, 06:23:57: JanG that sounds a very good plan. Plenty of time for seed maturing and for seed drying.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 05, 2022, 11:28:44: I have seed from an edible chrysanthemum.If anybody is intrested in it i will add it
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 06, 2022, 07:13:31: Thank you, Ruud. Sounds good. Is it the flowers or the leaves, or both, which are edible?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on October 06, 2022, 08:18:52: Ooh flowers , brilliant. As I type I am mesmerised by a couple of dahlias ( think I have read tubers edible) and had intended to add seed if I can save , they may not come true but anything near would do. They really are the last hurrah of summer. I’ll be back with names.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on October 06, 2022, 10:08:50: The Adam Alexander seeds have arrived they are…. Tomato…African Queen…Raf….Radio and Wild. Lettuce, Lattughino.
Mange Tout… Luang Prabang. DFB ..Dragon’s Tongue. Not a high seed count but hopefully enough. Dahlia ( fingers crossed) Englehardts Matador and Show n Tell, they are only just this side of fabulously vulgar!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 06, 2022, 14:47:05: The young leaves are edible,i dont know about the flowers,
https://store.underwoodgardens.com/Edible-Chrysanthemum-Chrysanthemum-coronarium/productinfo/V1297/
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on October 06, 2022, 15:24:25: Quote from: JanG on October 04, 2022, 10:15:27
I have a courgette which I hand pollinated and would like to contribute seeds of. It fruited quite early in the season, perhaps by the end of May or early June. It has been of a large marrow size ever since then and pale yellow in colour but, as it was pale to start with, the change in colour isn't at all dramatic. I picked it about 10 days ago.

I'm not sure of the best way to treat it. Should I leave it to mature a bit longer off the vine? This excellent seed-saving series of videos - https://www.diyseeds.org/en/films/ - recommends a month. If I do that, the seed will still have more than a month to dry out before the end of November which hopefully will be enough. Any advice from anyone who has more experience of saving courgette seed? I'd really hate to open it up before it's mature and viable after having watched it sit there for several months.

I think galina is right JanG. When I saved courgette seeds a few years back I kept the massive courgettes in my kitchen for a few weeks to cure before cutting open and then washing & drying the seed. I think this was after a reply to my 'help!' email to RealSeeds... My abiding memory is that the courgettes were so overripe that they absolutely stank!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 07, 2022, 05:37:20: Quote from: markfield rover on October 06, 2022, 08:18:52
Ooh flowers , brilliant. As I type I am mesmerised by a couple of dahlias ( think I have read tubers edible) and had intended to add seed if I can save , they may not come true but anything near would do. They really are the last hurrah of summer. I’ll be back with names.

I have become interested in dahlias this year, having previously been rather stupidly influenced by the way in which they became unfashionable. I grew some from seed this spring, and had an appealing row of smallish plants with attractively varied blooms including a stunning red cactus type. I’m hoping to bulk them up from tubers.
I’d be very interested to try your seed, Markfield Rover, if it ripens in time.
What colours are the two varieties?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 07, 2022, 05:43:09: Quote from: sparrow on October 06, 2022, 15:24:25
Quote from: JanG on October 04, 2022, 10:15:27

I think galina is right JanG. When I saved courgette seeds a few years back I kept the massive courgettes in my kitchen for a few weeks to cure before cutting open and then washing & drying the seed. I think this was after a reply to my 'help!' email to RealSeeds... My abiding memory is that the courgettes were so overripe that they absolutely stank!
Thanks for the confirmation, sparrow. I’ve certainly experienced cucumbers quite quickly becoming yellow and squidgy when saving for seed. So far my courgette is stubbornly firm (and odourless) but I’m still hoping for viability. We’ll see.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Paulh on October 07, 2022, 09:42:21: JanG, you can find pictures easily on a search - the tubers seem to be widely available. They are certainly "only just this side of fabulously vulgar" and I'm not sure you could put them in the same border as they would clash!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on October 07, 2022, 12:53:48: The dahlias are from Sarah Raven , Show n Tell is dinner plate size scarlet and lemon and Englehardts Matador is very hot pink /cerise with violet undertones I have them side by side they certainly do clash …fabulously.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Paulh on October 07, 2022, 13:09:09: I've got a mental picture of the two ugly sisters dressed for the ball in a Cinderella pantomime - wonderful!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on October 07, 2022, 14:53:37: They certainly are , I used to grow Cafe au Lait but through the pouring rain these two just don’t care , needless to say I have fairy lights in the greenhouse!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on October 07, 2022, 16:36:40: There may be a couple of additions or small changes as the month progresses (lettuces are still a maybe), but this is the bulk of what I'm including this year:

Beans, climbing
Brown Tobacco Worm
Non-Tough Half-Runner
Robert Hazelwood
Užice Speckled Wax
White Simpson Greasy

Beetroot
Deventer Zwartblad Winterbiet

Courgette
Rugosa Friulana

Flowers
Calendula officinalis ‘Flashback Mix’ + ‘Triangle Flashback/Zeolights’
Nicotiana langsdorfii ‘Bronze Queen’
Scabiosa atropurpurea ‘Black Knight’
Tagetes patula ‘Strawberry Blonde’
Tagetes tenuifolia ‘Red Gem’
Zinnia elegans ‘Cupid’

Radicchio
Rosalba

Shallot bulbs
Ouddorpse Bruine

Tomatoes
Ambrosia Gold
Ambrosia Pink
Ambrosia Red
Ambrosia Rose UBX
Blue Ambrosia
Velmozha
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 08, 2022, 07:07:57: Wow! That’s an amazing list.
The courgette looks fascinating. Have you found the flavour to be interestingly good? I’ve also not seen the pink radicchio and look forward very much to trying it, as well as the Ambrosia line of tomatoes. In fact all look totally irresistible.

Your flower garden must have been wonderful. What a feast to explore next year. I have a very soft spot for Nicotiana langsdorfii so the bronze/chocolate selection has a great appeal. Excitement is mounting!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 08, 2022, 09:07:51: https://www.vreeken.nl/022300-lange-rode-kroten-deventer-zwartblad

I am looking forward to the beetroot Vetivert. Looks to be an excellent storage beetroot and on the Dutch list of endangered veg too. Looking at the photos, it makes you wonder why some endangered veg have become endangered. Is it the non round shape of the root do you think?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 08, 2022, 15:07:33: I am flabbercasted how did that beetroot managed to cross the pond.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 08, 2022, 18:58:58: Vetivert will let us know but I'm guessing they might have been from De Tuinen van Weldadigheid. This seems to be an excellent Dutch organisation. I have had garlic from them.
Do you know it, Ruud? And have you grown the Deventer Zwartblad Winterbiet?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 09, 2022, 07:26:49: Quote from: ruud on October 08, 2022, 15:07:33
I am flabbercasted how did that beetroot managed to cross the pond.

Britain still does not have post Brexit import checks. So seeds can freely go into Britain, although most seed sellers on the continent have stopped sending seeds to Britain now.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on October 09, 2022, 13:42:10: Ruud, the beetroot seeds were from detuinenvanweldadigheid.nl they shipped to the UK pre-Brexit.
No idea why that shape fell out of favour, galina. Too big for the pot? Probably the 'wrong' shape for automated harvesting. They are nice beets and keep well, even in the ground overwintering here in the mild south.
The Fruilana is delicious and the quality is excellent; the flesh is dense, smooth and sweet, and the seed cavity isn't watery. I've been harvesting around 25cm fruits. Glad some of the flowers are to your taste, JanG. It's too bad that langsdorfii has no scent. The Cupid zinnias are a joy and still going strong.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on October 09, 2022, 13:50:40: Some photos of the (mature) courgette, young radicchio and beets.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 09, 2022, 14:48:21: De tuinen van weldadigheid is an organisation who is collecting and protecting old types of dutch vegetables from being extinct,I have grown a type of runner bean from them.I also visited the nursery bought myself eeuwig moes who is a type of kale who lives forever,it is growing now three years in my garden.I also bought a winterhardy lemontree/bush.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on October 10, 2022, 08:04:54: Quote from: markfield rover on October 07, 2022, 12:53:48
The dahlias are from Sarah Raven , Show n Tell is dinner plate size scarlet and lemon and Englehardts Matador is very hot pink /cerise with violet undertones I have them side by side they certainly do clash …fabulously.

They sound properly delightful. I just love dahlias - shall look forward to these immensely.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 11, 2022, 06:00:16: Galina or Galina's Yellow or Galina's Yellow Cherry are all names in use it seems. But I disagree with the description of 'large' clusters of yellow fruit. I get 7 per truss, just like Real Seeds say.
What did you get Garrett?
https://victoryseeds.com/products/galina-tomato

And a very informative read. https://www.seedstrust.com/blog/2018/6/10/the-great-siberian-adventure
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 11, 2022, 06:12:47: Sparrow, I am particularly looking forward to your Thelma Sanders. We had them once before and they were magnificent and produced so well. As it happened, I could not get seeds from yours at the time. Have this year grown from a different source and they were a disappointment. What a gift yours are on offer again, thank you.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on October 11, 2022, 10:23:59: Woke up to a frost ! My first thought …the dahlias, they are fine but will be moved ( they are in pots) to the greenhouse.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on October 11, 2022, 14:51:03: I've had a look, but don't have any photos of the Galina tomatoes on the vine. I do remember looking at them and thinking that they had very attractive trusses of fruit, surprisingly symmetrical with I'd reckon 8-10 per truss. I pruned my plants to just a single crystal stem, maybe that makes a difference.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 12, 2022, 10:52:24: Just before cutting up to get the seeds out, here is the rogue's gallery of this year's handpollinated courgettes. Long White Trailing from HSL, Lungo Bianco Zucchino is from Franchi, Striato d'Italia is from the amazing seed parcel from Jeannine and Jayb and Hungarian Zucchini is from the lady from Colorado I have swapped many seeds with. A Hungarian variety (as her family hails from there, she collects Hungarian varieties), but no specific name known to my seed donor.

HSL says that Long White Trailing is good as a marrow too, hope so as this monster is not the largest fruit, an even bigger one was hiding under the mass of achocha foliage.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 12, 2022, 11:23:25: Jack's Blue and Green beans. Lovely stringless green beans from Portugal. Swapped with Lorri Woods, who in turn got this bean from Jack, a waiter. They are a landrace (in the traditional sense of the word, not the Lofthouse definition), rather than an actual tightly selected variety. There is a lighter coloured bean in the photo and there is also a red and green variant. The red version is slightly shorter than the impressive nearly foot long blue and green beans. I have taken seeds from the blue version only (as in the name) and got all the variations. Better to leave them as a landrace maybe. This is the bean that topped my 8 foot supports, climbed up the plum tree nearby and OH had to harvest them with the ladder. Jack and the beanstalk more like :)
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on October 12, 2022, 20:20:15: These all look excellent galina, thanks for sharing photos. Hope you get some tasty meals out of the Long White marrows. Are the Jack's Blue & Green edible at the size depicted?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 12, 2022, 21:50:08: Not these as they were harvested very leathery to nearly crispy podded. But they reach that size at the edible stage, then stay good to harvest for several weeks, before they go leathery and finally they dry relatively fast. Initially the seeds are white with purple or red markings, but they turn yellow within a couple of weeks. In fact most seeds are shelled with their yellow storage colour in place already.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 13, 2022, 09:04:48: The Jack's Blue & Green sound great. To be grown up strong supports by the sound of it - or with a nearby tree within reach!
I admire your success in hand pollinating four varieties of courgette. I grew five varieties but succeeded in hand pollinating only one. I guess it's important to develop a habit of checking every day to see what stage the flowers are at.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 13, 2022, 12:51:01: Or just being lucky with the weather. These were all the first female-male matches on each of the plants. Can't say I have been that lucky in the past. Also had to remember to go back and wash hands between varieties as they are all cucurbita pepo!

I am really not doing anything different, but in Rushden it was much more difficult due to the late starts on clay soil and the much colder summer weather. I even had to resort to growing c pepo in the greenhouse, if outdoor isolating and handpollinating did not work a couple of years in a row. Also in Rushden I often had the problem that handpollinated cucurbita were practically seedless. A big squash that stored well to boot, but on cutting it open, there were none or very few seeds.

Having said that, I have not managed to handpollinate another variety I really wanted to here either, something always came up. Then I noticed too late that the one fruit, I had managed to isolate and handpollinate was not true to type. I guess the occasional mistake can happen. So HSL courgette Aubergine Blanche may be a variety of the past for me, but, on the other hand, just how many white courgettes does one person need, before it starts becoming a bit obsessive :)
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 14, 2022, 05:04:02: Thanks for that explanation. It helps me to feel a little less incompetent!

My other regretted area of little success is with peppers. Almost every time I bag a pepper flower it fails to set. I’ve tried Jayb’s glue method too but again the flowers have simply fallen off in almost all cases. More shaking or vibrating needed I imagine. A busy time of year though!

This season I’ve saved seed from a few pepper varieties which have grown alongside others with no attempt to isolate. I shall try a selection from my saved seed next season and see how much cross pollination has occurred. Quite a lot I suspect.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 14, 2022, 07:34:42: The crossing rate is said to be 40% with peppers. Which I am sure would be a lot less if one variety was grown at the far end of a greenhouse, the other elsewhere in the garden, also shielded by taller plants. The biggest issue with peppers is heat crossing into mild peppers from chilis. There are also different species, which helps, although some can still cross.

One way of doing it, is to cloche the whole plant, as peppers self pollinate as well as get pollinated by insects. The lady who advised this grows in large pots and had bent wire hoop supports over the plants with net curtain material over the hoops and tied around the rim of the pot, watered from underneath.

Another way is to start early, so they flower before being planted out. This first flower, with no other flowers around yet, will be self pollinating and pure. There is usually one variety that flowers first and sets fruit before the others. Just a matter of marking the fruit for seeds. Or starting one much earlier than the others deliberately. Isolation by timing, rather than by barriers.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 14, 2022, 16:28:25: Just too late for last year's seed circle were the Striped Custard Marrows. These were grown in 2021, seeds harvested in 2022. Just found the seeds from 2 hand pollinated plants which I can mix and add to our circle seeds. The photos show - best eating stage, a small one and a very mature specimen very pretty for decoration at this stage. They are at their best for eating, when faint stripes develop. My original source was Thomas Etty.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 15, 2022, 06:16:48: Thanks Galina for the extra seeds proposed, a lovely addition. Personally I’ve become acquainted with the charms and usefulness of pattypans only in the last couple of years - and this one looks wonderful.

Thanks too for the statistics and tips on pepper pollination. Very useful and noted. Looking forward to having another go next year!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 15, 2022, 12:01:37: Just been through the thread to see what I had promised earlier in the year to get to my offered list.

Forgot to add a photo of cucumber Beit Alpha. This is a return, the original seed came from Jayb in 2014. This was the only cucumber grown this year, grown in the greenhouse, but not handpollinated. Photo shows 2 fruits harvested overmature and yellow for seed saving and one at the right stage for eating. Prolific, early, larger than a gherkin but shorter than the cucumbers in shops. This is what Jayb wrote originally: Beit Alpha – Produces stocky and quite long fruit, skin is tender and they have a lovely taste. Fruits hold well on the vines and they gave a good crop although not as productive as an F1. I found they grew well in my poly-tunnel, I’m not sure how they would do outdoors. Seeds originally sourced from Baker Creek.

Incidentally this was the same year that we were also given Sparrow's Thelma Sanders squash and there is a photo of it. Also a photo of the Rosalie's Early tomatoes, which I am again adding to this year's circle.

http://seedsaverscircle.org/seed-circle/a4a-seed-saver-group-2014/
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 16, 2022, 05:27:43: I drew up a provisional list back on 2nd October. I know yours has grown since then, Galina, and of course might have changed. Looking forward to seeing the final riches!
Good to have the photo and further information for the Beit Alpha cucumber. It looks to have a good smooth skin too. I grew Marketmore for several years and although it’s reliable, tastes and crops well, the little gritty bits on the skin- which can be rubbed off - are less appealing.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on October 26, 2022, 15:23:59: I have put another veggie in the seed cirkle,white wonder a white cucumber or gherkin depends on the picking time.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 26, 2022, 18:55:16: That's great, Ruud. I've been meaning to grow gherkins for some time but not yet got there. This sounds a very interesting one.

There's some information online which suggests that it can be grown outdoors in UK. Have you tried it outdoors in your climate?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on October 26, 2022, 20:03:22: This very mild October weather produced more harvest on those courgette plants that weren't killed by our ground frost a month ago. Here a misshapen Bianco Lungo, then Striato d'Italia and on the right Long White Trailing. What is quite striking, how much greener those white courgettes are than they were during summer.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on October 27, 2022, 06:56:12: I have the same phenomenon on Alberello Genovese. Now that I’ve picked the one huge marrow-sized courgette from it, it’s producing small greenish and lightly striped fruit.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on November 07, 2022, 10:27:07: One last addition from me, I've included some Tiger climbing french beans. These have long flattish pods and can be eaten as young pods or left as a dry shelled bean.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 07, 2022, 17:16:24: They look very nice Garrett, thank you. Where are they from originally? Do you have any more info for us please?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on November 07, 2022, 17:49:53: They were sourced from the HSL and they have this description:
This variety was grown in Cooma, South Australia during the mid-1940s by our donor's father, who was known for his prize-winning skills as a vegetable grower. This early, vigorous and easy-to-grow bean produces small mauve-pink flowers followed by stringless green pods that develop “tiger stripes” when mature. Tender and with great flavour when eaten fresh; the striped dried beans are both eye-catching and tasty.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 08, 2022, 05:05:37: That’s great, Garrett. And thank you for the information too. I’ll be putting all the info given onto a database to share with circle members. So it’s really good to have as much information as possible about source, history, performance, growth habits, appearance etc. Photos are very good to have too, for here and for the database.
So, a very welcome addition along with your tomatoes.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 08, 2022, 17:12:04: Following on from the Ukrainian theme, I am adding Orange Icicle aka Sosulka Oranzhevaya to complement Ruud's Icicle tomato. These were from the amazing parcel from Jeannine and Jayb.

Also have been growing Ukrainian Purple, which is a repeat from A4A seed swap when we got these seeds from Greenlily. As they are not the most blight resistant tomatoes, they are better in the greenhouse, the Icicles have much better blight resistance and are good both in and out.

I harvested the very last outdoor Fruity Yellows yesterday and the last greenhouse ones in the photo here, which were actually from the greenhouse. Fruity yellow can be yellow, orange or red. Red is the rarest, mainly because I have been selecting for yellow. I understand Tim Peters, the breeder, later changed the name from Fruity Yellow to Fruity Mix, which seems more appropriate. But the variable colour is the only thing 'wrong' with this tomato. It is very rampant and probably best grown as a multistem indeterminate. 2 or 3 stems each with a 6ft plus support stick is a good way. They were very early and the last ones, did get slight blight on fruit not vines, but literally grew out of it.

Photos are Ukrainian Purple and Fruity Yellow. Great flavour all of them.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 09, 2022, 06:19:39: Great addition, Galina. Orange Icicle is from Ukraine too?

Ukrainian Purple is on my list to contribute but mine looks more purplish than yours so an interesting comparison. In fact I received seed this year of both Purple Ukrainian and Ukrainian Purple. The Purple Ukrainian had come originally from Real Seeds but I’m not sure of the original source of Ukrainian Purple. I received them from London Freedom Seed Bank. I grew both and couldn’t see or taste any difference between the two. Unfortunately I didn’t take photos but both looked very like the photo on the Real Seeds site. https://www.realseeds.co.uk/tomatoes_vines_big.html
Another tomato I’m contributing, Lotos, is also from Ukraine and also originally from Real Seeds. It’s an excellent yellowish orange tomato.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 09, 2022, 06:56:33: As I haven't packaged my seeds yet, no need to double up on the Ukrainian Purple. Let's go with yours. Yes they do look a bit more purple than in the photo. Are your Ukrainian Purple and Purple Ukrainian the same?

The first in the series of Icicles or Sosulkas was a chance find of the black one in a field of tomatoes by the farmer, Mr Kulik who gave them to Denis Terentiev, who is credited with breeding the series. There are black, pink, orange and there may be other colours too in the series. I just love the shape, their good flavour and the moderate blight resistance making them outdoor suited. https://blog.gardeningknowhow.com/tbt/growing-black-icicle-tomatoes/
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 09, 2022, 09:37:39: I couldn't tell any difference between Purple Ukrainian and Ukrainian Purple. I suspect they are the same. I have the impression that Ukrainian Purple is the form of the name more commonly used and I have only come across Purple Ukrainian through Real Seeds. But I haven't conducted any kind of thorough search for naming information.

I happened to grow Black Icicle this year. I could add a small amount of seed to the Seed Circle to further the Icicle theme. I agree they are lovely. I'll perhaps try them outside next year. This year my outdoor tomatoes did better than my polytunnel ones. For some reason they got off to a bad start in the polytunnel and then the extreme heat perhaps didn't suit them either.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 09, 2022, 10:49:34: Great, then we have pink from Ruud, black (which is brown really) from you and orange. Together with Ukrainian Purple a nice tribute and reminder of what is happening there. I also have Ukrainian beetroot from HSL growing in the garden right now, but they will need to be pulled up and wintered in the cellar for seeds next year.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on November 10, 2022, 09:34:47: I have put the parcel together will post tomorrow. My dahlias are under the misapprehension that it is still September and have no intention of setting seed, I have had words! Sorry not to be able to include but if they do the honourable thing I’ll let you know and I can send separately to anyone interested,otherwise I’ll report back next autumn.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 11, 2022, 05:35:34: Thank you, Markfield Rover. I look forward to receiving them. Garret’s package arrived a couple of days ago and Ruud’s is on its way, so it’s all beginning to happen very nicely!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 12, 2022, 06:21:55: Jang, Mine is now all in the country as of half an hour ago. Will post Wednesday. Have added a couple of named extra packets, please put in the recipient's baggie.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 12, 2022, 09:51:18: Welcome Galina. I hope all is well and your travelling went smoothly. Exciting to have another contribution so soon on its way. Will of course dispense any extras.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 12, 2022, 15:26:05: Thank you Jang.

Final list from me:

Tomatoes, all indeterminate

Orange Icicle aka Sosulka Oranzhevaya
Rosalie's Early Orange
Red Boar
Pink Boar
Fruity Yellow aka Fruity Mix

Melon
Old West Virginia heirloom (also from the amazing seed parcel from Jeannine and Jayb). A nice melon shaped like a giant olive that ripens to yellow skinned with an amazing perfume.
https://www.sandhillpreservation.com/muskmelon

Courgettes:
Striped Custard Marrow
Hungarian Zucchini
Striato d'Italia
Long White Trailing
Zucchino Lungo Bianco

Cucumber
Beit Alpha

Achocha
Giant Bolivian

Climbing French Bean
Jack's Blue and Green

True Potato Seeds tps
From seed balls of the Pink Fir Apple x Inky Squid cross that Jayb made.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on November 13, 2022, 10:08:14: A grand list Galina; thank you for the new addition of OWVH melon, can't wait to try it!

Like Markfield, I'm witnessing a similar problem with my zinnias. So, unfortunately I will have to cancel the Cupid zinnia seeds for this year, apologies.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 13, 2022, 10:50:52: Yes, the melons were a bit late, so I did not want to promise in case seeds were not ready in time. I shall start a bit earlier than mid May in future, as they seemed to take a long time to turn yellow and fully ripen. But there is absolutely no doubt when they are ready because of that wonderful smell.

Looks like the long autumn has helped as well as hindered - with zinnias and dahlias unfortunately.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 13, 2022, 11:11:28: I have also added the Red Boar tomato, as this seems to be more akin your Pink Furry Boar, Jang, than the Pink Boar itself. Pink Boar is more like a purplish, brown tomato, but as it is just like mine on the breeders photos too (Wild Boar Farms), this is strange naming on their part. Very much looking forward to Pink Furry as all these Wild Boar tomatoes are a bit special and selected for flavour.

Red Boar is said to be a mutation of Green Zebra. My seeds were also from the magic seed round robin parcel from Jeannine and Jayb.
https://wildboarfarms.com/product/red-boar/
https://www.highmowingseeds.com/organic-non-gmo-pink-boar-tomato.html
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 14, 2022, 05:34:55: That Jeanine/Jayb seed parcel certainly seems to have gathered some jewels on its way round. Thank you, Galina, for preserving and passing many of them on to our seed circle.
This promises to be an even more exciting year than the last. Ruud’s package arrived surprisingly quickly a couple of days ago.
My Pink Furry Boar, which was from Brown Envelope Seeds in Ireland, is certainly pinkish. It developed quite late in the season but kept going valiantly. They became paler as they matured and particularly later in the season than my photo.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 14, 2022, 07:45:51: At the time Jeannine bought many Canadian and USA seeds that were unknown in UK and sent them to Jayb who added many of her home saved seeds from memory in a large shoe box, which later grew to a boot box! It was the time just after the big Iceland volcanic outbreak when planes could not fly with all the volcanic ash and the parcel was lost. Much later it turned up again, but Jeannine had very generously been shopping again in the meantime and this packet made it fine. So in the end we did have all our round robin contributions, Jayb's big UK starter package and two generous packets from Jeannine, so yes it was quite some parcel. However, in order to get it you had to guess that it was your turn next from a riddle and make up a riddle for the next person. So we had a lot of fun with seeds and with cryptic clues. It was such a happy exciting time, when seeds could still be swapped pretty freely internationally, give or take volcanic ash disruption. In the end the parcel went back to Canada, now largely depleted of Canadian and USA seeds, but filled with UK seeds, to give Canadian gardeners a flavour of UK and European varieties. Happy days.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on November 25, 2022, 06:33:56: This is just a gentle reminder that we are nearing the end of November and the agreed deadline for sending off seed packages..

Most of the wonderful seed offerings have already been sent and received. Thank you so much. I continue to be amazed by the care and attention to detail so many seed-savers show. I hope the couple which are still to arrive aren’t presenting problems and that it will be possible to move towards the gathering together and despatching which I know can be quite a time-consuming business! Please just let me know of any difficulties and we’ll see what arrangements we can arrive at if necessary.

Looking forward very soon to collating and sending off such exciting packages. One of the loveliest parts of the lead up to Christmas!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on November 26, 2022, 15:45:35: Very much looking forward to this special seed gift pack. It is indeed one of the highlights of the year and quite literally the gift that keeps on giving - when we like a new variety and keep our own seeds in the future.

I have just come in from the garden where I picked among other veg, Senposai, turnip and celery. In the greenhouse a few late, fruity tomatillos are still ripening, all from seeds from last year's circle. Tonight we are cooking a big pot of our favourite Indian curry dish and the 'sour' tomatoes in the sauce are also from circle seeds. Thank you.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on November 30, 2022, 13:37:37: I am so sorry to be tardy - I got swamped with work and have barely been home. I have posted my seeds off today so hopefully will be with you very soon. xx
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 01, 2022, 06:33:56: How lovely to hear that you have managed to despatch your seeds, sparrow, in the nick of time! Well done and thank you. I return home today after a short trip away and, as we now have a full complement posted, look forward to being able to apportion the seeds in the next couple of days or so and have them winging their way, hopefully before the Christmas rush.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on December 02, 2022, 10:45:49: A couple of notes on my final list of varieties: I made the critically stupid mistake of leaving the beetroot seeds in the polytunnel, where a field mouse was caught tampering with the stash. The risk to health was too high to send them out in a group parcel. Even if I sent them with a warning they could be accidentally mishandled. I think they're most likely destined for the bin.
Aeron Purple Star runner beans are the substitution.

Also, I wasn't completely satisfied with the quality of the Red Gem marigold seeds from my own harvest so I divvied up the original packet instead.

No other crises to report. :drunken_smilie:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 03, 2022, 06:52:34: Thank you for your scrupulousness, Vetivert. Perhaps you might feel you can sow some beetroot seeds yourself and keep the variety going for another time?

I have to mention that the post is very slow at the moment and that I haven’t yet received the last two packages. So we might have to moderate our hopes of a quick turn around and smooth passage. ☹️
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 03, 2022, 16:38:18: Well, not a crisis either, but I had hoped to share seeds of Ukrainian beetroot next year. As it is getting quite cold and frosty, I dug them up, foliage lush, but most of the roots were much smaller than last time I grew them. Not enough good roots I want to propagate from. Yes I did sow them relatively late, but they should have grown much bigger. Some standard Bolthardy sown at the same time are actually larger. I will try again next year, but commiserate with your beetroot seeds mishap Vetivert. Thank you for the Aaron Purple Star and for sharing the remaining Marigold seeds.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 08, 2022, 07:09:27: I’m very pleased to say that the last package arrived yesterday. It confirms that the post is indeed slow at the moment as it took a week to arrive even though posted first class. Thank you to all.

A wonderful array of seeds. I have added Alberello Genovese courgette and St Victor leek to my original list and will add some notes here on these and others over the next few days. The return parcels will go off either today or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on December 08, 2022, 08:41:29: I’ve gone weak at the knees!
Thank you for the update.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 08, 2022, 09:13:47: Love the teaser photo. What a super seed share out. Thank you Jan.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 08, 2022, 14:24:32: Jang, isn't St Victor the fully winterhardy leek with the purple leaf tops? What a super addition. Will sow and plant together with the multiplying Telsing Andrews leeks for more 'mingling and grexing'. :icon_cheers:

https://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.co.uk/forum/main-forum/allium/16477-telsing-andrews-perennial-leek#post16513
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on December 09, 2022, 19:44:34: A little eye candy for a cold winter evening
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 10, 2022, 06:38:20: Oooohhh another bean with the Rose type pattern Vetivert. This one a half runner, not the support breaking brute that Rose is. Did this seed pattern originate in Kentucky? And also with the pinkish hue. Real eye candy. All 3 full of promise of summer delights to come.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 10, 2022, 14:31:48: Hello Galina. Yes, the St Victor leek is the one hardy purple leaved leek. I was going to explain when I got round to more notes on varieties I put in that the only leek which could have crossed with St Victor is indeed the Telsing Andrews multiplying leek as I allowed both those varieties to flower. I thought that if crossing had occurred, that might be no bad thing. I believe that St Victor is in fact half of the Telsing Andrews grex, used perhaps for both its colouring and hardiness.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 10, 2022, 14:39:16: I don't think I know Rose climbing bean. Is it Robert Hazelwood which has similar colouring? I certainly love that mottled shading to dark effect. Great photos
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 10, 2022, 15:06:23: A picture of Rose or Raccoon bean seeds. Pods are large, fleshy and a yellowish green. Maybe for next year's circle. Yes their seeds look similar to Robert Hazelwood.

Thank you for the leek explanation. :sunny:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 10, 2022, 15:45:57: My friend just told me that my seeds have arrived at her house. That was really fast. Thank you Jang, thank you all. Can't wait until I can open my treasure box.

:icon_cheers: :wave: :toothy10: :blob7: :toothy10: :wave: :icon_cheers:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 10, 2022, 16:37:52: Wow! That's fantastic news. I was resigned to very long delays. Fingers crossed that others arrive quickly after the weekend.

Rose looks very appealing. Perhaps more pinkish than Robert Hazelwood
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on December 10, 2022, 18:30:26: Galina, I couldn't say where it originates but I've certainly noticed that frosted pattern seems to occur more often in that part of the world than anywhere else. Turkey Craw is another example.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on December 11, 2022, 17:10:22: Arrived back tonight to a glorious sight upon the door mat! Thank you all so much and especially JanG for making it happen. I have from last year my advent seed calendar, I am going to ask OH to do the honours, and refill. Spreading the excitement and another festive lunch mid January!
Wishing you all warmest wishes and happy sowing, cheers!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: pumkinlover on December 11, 2022, 18:05:55: Advent seed calendar :toothy10:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on December 12, 2022, 19:40:49: Mine isn't here yet, but my postie has said there are issues locally, though I don't really understand why.

It looks an amazing parcel from your photo JanG, thank you so much for letting me join and for all the work putting it together. Though I also have to say I am just so happy at the thought of having Cara de la Virgen beans again! :D :D :D :D

I have some nice things coming in from elsewhere that might be of interest for next year's seed circle, I hope. Just need to get my greenhouse up.

I have sown some Trepadiera Werner chilli seeds today, which I originally got from Galina several years ago. Still one of my favourites to grow and overwinter for how pretty they are on the bush. At the moment it's hard to imagine it being warm enough to grow stuff - I'm sat here with a hot water bottle under my feet and one at my back!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 13, 2022, 18:17:57: Very brave to be sowing during this freezing spell. A real joyful anticipation of things to come though.

I've been piecing together all the information and photos contributed to this thread so far. Thanks to those who have already given information about their varieties, and photos. A specially big thanks to Galina who has commented very fully on her varieties. I've been adding all info and photos to the Airtable base we've used for the last two years, and anyone who's set up to do it can look at what has gone on there so far. I'll contact everyone shortly with details of how to get access to it.

In the meantime this is a call for any more information and/or photos that you might be able to come up with. It's good to know where the seeds you sowed this year came from, any info you have about origins, history etc and any experiences of growing the variety which might be helpful to others - height, vigour, growth habit, productivity etc. If you can post here I can transfer it to the database so that it's all in one place and easy to navigate.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 14, 2022, 15:32:20: Finding photos for you. Giant Bolivian Achocha
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on December 15, 2022, 10:18:23: More information on some of the varities. Where the provenance is unclear I've given my own description:

Chadwick Cherry - named after Alan Chadwick, this is an indeterminate red cherry tomato (I'd describe them on the larger side). It was vigorous and highly productive, I counted ten fruit trusses when I topped my plant in late August. Classic red tomato taste.

Auntie Madge's - seed sourced from the HSL, an indeterminate small red plum tomato with thin skin and beautiful rich classic flavour. I highly recommend trying this one.

Galina - an indeterminate potato leaved yellow cherry tomato originally from Siberia. I found it productive and the fruits would last well on the vine without splitting. It has the typical mild sweetness of a yellow tomato, but nevertheless a good flavour.

Golden Grape - another one originally from the HSL with unknown provenance. This is a determinate, multi branching small yellow tomato, it doesn't ripen for me until August grown outside, but it is ridiculously productive and one plant will give you hundreds of fruits the size of gooseberries. It has a lovely blend of sweetness and acidity, but minimal tang, the fruits have thin skin and are bursting with juice.

Ciliegia Cerise - a determinate, branching small red cherry tomato. When I was given the seeds I was told it was the sort of tomato you would typically see being grown in a pot in Italy and that was all I knew. I'd describe it as having a classic red tomato flavour, but very intense. Juicy with thin skin.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Paulh on December 15, 2022, 11:28:56: I'm curious how you avoid cross-pollination on all these vegetables and fruits. There must be a lot of skill and effort involved in selecting, pollinating and isolating flowers for seed. This is not the right thread for an answer.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 15, 2022, 11:37:35: Paulh, this is exactly the right forum to ask. Not all vegetables are difficult, some barely ever cross, for example peas, so peas are a good starter crop for would be seed savers. You literally only need to let the pods dry on the plants, then shell. If you look on the first page of this thread, there is seed saving information to get gardeners started on their own seedsaving journey. https://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,83279.0.html

Also here. https://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/expert-advice/garden-management/seed-saving
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 15, 2022, 12:31:06: Many thanks, Galina and Garrett, for photos and info. I couldn't get the first Achocha photo to expand but I've put the other one on the database, together with your very useful tomato notes, Garrett.

Galina's links will give loads of practical information about seed-saving, Paul. Just by way of adding to Galina's comments, French beans and tomatoes are also reliable enough to assume that seed will usually be true to type, together with quite a few like corn salad, spinach, land cress, rocket etc. Also herbs like coriander, dill, parsley and many flowers. So lots to get started on. If you'd like to have a go next season, you only need two varieties to join in the seed circle!
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: sparrow on December 16, 2022, 12:11:13: It's here!!! And it's even more amazing in real life than on the photos. Thank you so much for so many seed packets! You must have so much space to grow all these to seed harvest. I will up my game for next year's version and have some ideas already.

The achocha seed I sent in for the parcel was for Fat Baby rather than the Giant version.
Feel free to use the photos on my site for the database, which includes one of all the different stages of the fruit: https://mudandgluts.com/unusual-crops/achocha/

The achocha I submitted were self-seeded - I had composted some old plants a few years ago and used the compost this year. I am very impressed at their determination to grow after some time in the dark with only worms and other bugs for company. I had 5 self-seeded plants initially, though slugs reduced that to one. It covered a huge amount of trellis set up as a munty frame (4ft wide by 10ft in length/height), and wandered off into my sweetcorn and climbed that too. So they are really vigorous

Jan thank you for your message - I'll send you an SAE, that's really kind of you.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: garrett on December 16, 2022, 14:53:04: My package arrived today and want to say how happy I am with such a diverse range of seeds. I'm going to be very busy studying everything and deciding what to grow next year. I'm particularly delighted with all the beans. I only started growing dry beans for the first time this year so I'm thrilled to have so many new ones to try.

Special thanks to Jan for organising everything.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 16, 2022, 20:13:16: Sparrow, that is quite an amazing tale, that a couple of years old compost can still have viable seeds in it which duly germinated unprompted. These seeds are indeed tough. Looking forward to growing from your seeds.

I really like the photo with all the Fat Baby Achocha lined up from tiny to yellowing and overmature on your blog.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 18, 2022, 10:12:37: Very pleased two more parcels have safely arrived. I hope Vetivert's and Ruud's make it very soon. Thank you for the further information about your Achocha, Sparrow, and the reference to your website. Very interesting.

I'm building up the information on the Airtable base and will soon be able to provide the link.

I haven't yet put much info about my own varieties here on this thread, so starting with tomatoes:

Ananas Noire
Indeterminate. From Brown Envelope Seeds. An interesting large-fruited Belgian variety with green, yellow and purple in its skin colour and a good flavour
Pink Furry Boar
Indeterminate. Also from Brown Envelope Seeds. A Brad Gates variety with a matt pinkish skin
Yellow Submarine
From a seed swap. Indeterminate. Small yellow pear-shaped fruit. My most productive tomato by far this year. Long season.
Lotos
Pale yellow, quite large, Ukrainian variety. Originally from Real Seeds
Purple Ukraine
Carrying on the Ukrainian theme, a purplish early plum tomato. Attractive, flavourful and productive.
Black Icicle
Galina has written: the first in the series of Icicles or Sosulkas was a chance find of the black one in a field of tomatoes by the farmer, Mr Kulik who gave them to Denis Terentiev, who is credited with breeding the series. There are black, pink, orange and there may be other colours too in the series. I just love the shape, their good flavour and the moderate blight resistance making them outdoor suited. https://blog.gardeningknowhow.com/tbt/growing-black-icicle-tomatoes/
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 21, 2022, 14:49:09: Some more notes on varieties

Peas

Blue Prussian
From HSL. Their description: Syn. 'Prussian Blue', 'Early Dutch Green', 'Fine Long-Podded Dwarf', 'Royal Prussian', 'Prussian Prolific', 'Green Prussian'.
A very old variety dating back to at least the end of the 18th century in England.
Sutton & Sons Seed and Plant List of 1852 describes it as “a useful old variety”.
Thought to have been developed in Germany, though very little is known about its early history.
We do know, however, that it was grown by Thomas Jefferson, the 3rd president of the USA, in 1809 in his garden at Monticello, Virginia.
Growing to 90-120cm in height, it produces white flowers followed by plump, blunt pods containing 7-8 peas in each.

Carlin
An old variety. A soup pea and good in stews, curries etc. Traditionally in the North of England they are soaked overnight, boiled up and eaten with vinegar.

Green Beauty
A mange tout with a large quite fleshy pod, somewhat like Bijou. Bred by Alan Kapuler

Lettuces

Cantarix
An attractive oak leaf lettuce with reddish leaves. It's very hardy and slow to bolt.

Rossa di Trento
Seed originally from Franchi. An Italian heritage variety. Their description: This is an early variety that produces large uniform head with blistered green and red shading leaves. This lettuce is crunchy, tender with excellent flavour.
To be sown from March to mid September and harvest From June to November.

Black-seeded Simpson
A variety documented from the 1850s. A large loose crisphead with crunchy, wrinkled leaves. Quite hardy.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 29, 2022, 10:32:59: I do hope everyone has been having a wonderful holiday break. I sowed some onion seeds yesterday, Sturon and Keravel - very exciting!

I've contacted members with a private message to link to the collected information given by you all. Do say if I've got anything wrong. Where appropriate I've also added some photos and info either from my own records or from the internet. Again say if there's anything which is unhelpful or wrong. I believe you might be able to add comments and, if so, please feel free to. It's not quite complete as I still have a few notes for my varieties to add, but I thought I'd send the link now as some of us might have a bit of leisure to browse!

Unfortunately we still have two members who haven't received their seeds. This is hugely regrettable and I'm really hoping that their packages will turn up once the Christmas backlog has been cleared. If the seeds haven't arrived in a week or so, we'll have to see what we can do to improve matters a little. Lots of fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: ruud on December 30, 2022, 12:21:40: Yesterday a big surprise dropped on the doormat.Finnally it arrived what a huge collection of seeds.I want to thank everybody for there effort to participed this fine group of gardeners.I wish everybody a healthy green new year.
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: Vetivert on December 30, 2022, 13:08:11: Hi all, hope you're having a lovely festive season. The package has finally escaped the bowels of our RM depot and arrived safely. Many thanks to everyone involved :wave:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: markfield rover on December 30, 2022, 13:35:13: Are we all now safely gathered in ?
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: galina on December 30, 2022, 15:47:30: Yes we are, what a relief. Didn't quite happen in time to go under the Christmas tree for everybody, but well within the 12 days of Christmas and definitely before the New Year!

With that I would like to wish everybody a very happy and healthy 2023 and hopefully really cooperative gardening weather to complement all our efforts. Thank you to everybody for making the garden here more special with varieties I would have probably never grown otherwise. :sunny:
Title: Re: Seed Saving Circle 2022
Post by: JanG on December 31, 2022, 07:16:34: What a relief! The Post Office certainly had us worried for a while but thankfully all is finally well. I’d like to add my thanks too, and wishes for a great year of growing ahead. I love the fact that we have been able to potentially enrich each others’ growing experiences and, in our relatively small way, probably help to keep some varieties alive by distributing them more widely. Long may it continue. Happy 2023 and happy growing to everyone.