Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Harry on January 14, 2023, 10:57:35
-
I just got my small plot. Looks like it's had ZERO attention for at least a couple of years or more.
A quick survey reveals it's had strawberries and raspberries and a small patch of rhubarb, but they are just integral with the weeds. The strawberries cover a random 2 to 4 square metres and the raspberries are just half a dozen tied canes with dead seedheads around them.
Should I bother to salvage those by weeding around them? Or maybe dig them out and move them? Or will they be worthless weeds themselves by now?
Allotment is to be used to grow veg, on a minimal budget. Much as I'd like to just nuke the lot and go no-dig, I can't afford to spend much on compost. Currently weeding by hand and trying to get ahead of the weeds with big sheets of black plastic. Obviously I can't just stick black plastic over the strawberry areas without sacrificing them.
Rotovating is not in my plan. I could strim it, fork it or dig it, but I want to save some effort. How much weed root can I get away with leaving behind? (How long is a piece of string)
I'm planning on trying to cultivate only half the area this year, because I figure if I try to clear it all, I'll run out of time for sowing.
-
Hmmmmm.
Note to the esteemed site owner, moderators,
You do rather let adverts dominate the site. Sorry, to say. I know you need to monetise the site, but the auto-reply advert is a bit much.
I know.... Your site, your decision. I'd rather pay a subscription than see all those ads.
Regards,
H
-
Sorry to say it depends on the weeds. Annuals will be killed off by the plastic but perenneial weed roots, especially thistles and bindweed and couch grass will just bide their time and shoot again the minute you move the plastic.
The raspberry canes may well send up new shoots this spring and those will fruit so remove the dead canes and weed round them. Starwberries are best re-planted every year so you crop on a 3 year rotation - the first year plants are getting their roots down and will not produce much fruit. The second year plants will fruit well and the 3rd year plants will fruit and sen out runners you then plant out or pot up to keep the rotatio and vigour going. If you want to keep your budget low, try some Tlc for the strawberry plants still there by weeding round them and/or re-planting in a cleared bed.
Start making your own compost with all the weeds and dead material you clear. Try planting thru cardboard on new beds. It will keep the light off weed seeds and roots and reduce your need to hoe.
-
Knowing where to start is always the hard bit!
First thing I’d do is try and identify any useful features, paths, compost heap, trees.
Then I’d dig out any perennial weeds, especially docks and dandelions which will just grow back if you strim the tops off.
I’d then strim the rest and take off the long grass and annual weeds to start a compost pile or add to an existing one.
That should leave you with a better idea of your space, so you can decide what you want to grow this year. Only grow what you and your family normally eat or would like to eat! There are plenty of planting and sowing charts available online ( see TeeGee’s excellent resources on this site) to help you work out what needs sowing when.
After that, only clear an area when you are ready to plant something in it….there is nothing more demoralising that clearing an area, only to have weeds take it back over with depressing speed. Cover other areas you know you won’t be tackling for a while with weighed down cardboard from recycling skips to help knock the grass and weeds back before you tackle them. Prepare, plant and keep weed free as you go. I sow very little directly in the soil as starting seeds at home and planting them out at the allotment has several advantages. Making a defined bed or some sort, a area pegged out with string or with wooden sides can help your morale as it immediately looks better, it stops you walking on it and compacting the soil, and with a defined area if you have limited time you can concentrate on just one bed per visit, sort it out really thoroughly depending on what it requires (dig it over, or cover it, or plant it up, or weed it) then it looks good and you can move on to the next bit.
It might seem overwhelming at first but regular visits doing just a few tasks at a time is usually a successful approach rather than trying to sort it all out at once. Getting to know your allotment neighbours can be a worthwhile sharing site knowledge and seeing what grows well there. Enjoy!
-
Sorry to say it depends on the weeds. Annuals will be killed off by the plastic but perenneial weed roots, especially thistles and bindweed and couch grass will just bide their time and shoot again the minute you move the plastic.
The raspberry canes may well send up new shoots this spring and those will fruit so remove the dead canes and weed round them. Starwberries are best re-planted every year so you crop on a 3 year rotation - the first year plants are getting their roots down and will not produce much fruit. The second year plants will fruit well and the 3rd year plants will fruit and sen out runners you then plant out or pot up to keep the rotatio and vigour going. If you want to keep your budget low, try some Tlc for the strawberry plants still there by weeding round them and/or re-planting in a cleared bed.
Start making your own compost with all the weeds and dead material you clear. Try planting thru cardboard on new beds. It will keep the light off weed seeds and roots and reduce your need to hoe.
Thanks, Last thing first: I already consigned about my body weight in weeds to a compost heap. A huge pile. And that's barely scratched the surface of a tiny corner of my plot. I've excluded the seedy weeds which I think included dock and bindweed. They are set aside for disposal. Maybe incinerate or take off the site.
Raspberries. I think I'll do as you suggest. Trim back the dead, re-tie the good and generally weed around them. See what they do in summer.
Strawberries look like they have spent the last few years spreading out by runners. I'm undecided really, but I would like to see SOME fruit this summer. So maybe a mixed approach of pull out and dump the older looking source plants and separate off and leave anything that looks like a first year plant, weeding around them. That's if I can figure the old from the new. Probably relocate about half of the newer babies as well, so the beds will be where I want them.
Thanks for the cardboard tip. I think cardboard will be big in my plans, for weed suppressing and even for temporary paths.
I've never had so many weeds to deal with in my small garden, so it's a bit daunting. That black membrane stuff is a bit luxury for my budget unless I manage to scrounge some. I want to avoid chemical weed killer.
Perennial weeds. Hmmmf. I don't yet know which weed is what. Hard to tell because it's all dead looking at the moment. Few leaves to identify, just dried out sticks with seed pods on them. I guess I just learn as I go. I think I already learned not to rotavate but I also learned I'm a slow worker and those darned weeds will be racing me.
-
Knowing where to start is always the hard bit!
First thing I’d do is try and identify any useful features, paths, compost heap, trees.
Then I’d dig out any perennial weeds, especially docks and dandelions which will just grow back if you strim the tops off.
I’d then strim the rest and take off the long grass and annual weeds to start a compost pile or add to an existing one.
That should leave you with a better idea of your space, so you can decide what you want to grow this year. Only grow what you and your family normally eat or would like to eat! There are plenty of planting and sowing charts available online ( see TeeGee’s excellent resources on this site) to help you work out what needs sowing when.
After that, only clear an area when you are ready to plant something in it….there is nothing more demoralising that clearing an area, only to have weeds take it back over with depressing speed. Cover other areas you know you won’t be tackling for a while with weighed down cardboard from recycling skips to help knock the grass and weeds back before you tackle them. Prepare, plant and keep weed free as you go. I sow very little directly in the soil as starting seeds at home and planting them out at the allotment has several advantages. Making a defined bed or some sort, a area pegged out with string or with wooden sides can help your morale as it immediately looks better, it stops you walking on it and compacting the soil, and with a defined area if you have limited time you can concentrate on just one bed per visit, sort it out really thoroughly depending on what it requires (dig it over, or cover it, or plant it up, or weed it) then it looks good and you can move on to the next bit.
It might seem overwhelming at first but regular visits doing just a few tasks at a time is usually a successful approach rather than trying to sort it all out at once. Getting to know your allotment neighbours can be a worthwhile sharing site knowledge and seeing what grows well there. Enjoy!
Thanks. Yes. It's daunting and I wonder if I've bitten off more than I can chew.... So I've resolved to literally chew less: I'll be trying to cultivate a fraction of the site well, rather than all the site badly. If I can do 20-25 sq metres this year, I'll feel satisfied. Whether that satisfies the site management is another issue :) *
Luckily very few dandelions and not much dock. The bulk of the weeds seem shsllow rooted and the soil is soft enough to pull most of them out.... So far.
Every walk up and down the plot is a voyage of discovery. While I was clearing a bit yesterday, I found what looks like a matted path of some sort. but it was under an inch of weeds. Makes me think this has been untended a LONG time.*
I like the idea of marking out areas as I go. I also agree that sprouting seeds at home will be better for me because once they're in the ground, I would need to know whats my food and what's newly sprouted weed. I'm not at all familiar with the difference :)
* If the site authorities can leave a plot untended to this level, they seriously can't expect me to hit their strict cultivation targets. And the targets are cripplingly strict!
Minimum Cultivation must take place as follows:
10% by the end of 1 month: 25% by the end of 2 months: 50% by the end of 3 months.
They can coco :)
They obviously didn't demand that of the previous tenant!
-
Interesting cultivation targets……surely it will depend in the time of year you take over a plot though!?
Another reason to have marked out areas to tackle, it looks like you are doing something even if the marked out are is still weed covered!
Find out if your site get any free deliveries of wood chips or other resources like seed swaps that you could utilise to avoid spending. I’d be tempted with your strawberries to dig them up, discard the oldest looking/ any poorly growing ones and put them in pots temporally, then clear a bed/ area completely to plant them up in rows well spaced and they will be ready to grow on and fruit this year.
This RHS link will help you id your weeds…
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/common-weeds
-
Also take a look on this site at members gallery pics, lots of inspiration there!
-
Interesting cultivation targets……surely it will depend in the time of year you take over a plot though!?
Another reason to have marked out areas to tackle, it looks like you are doing something even if the marked out are is still weed covered!
Find out if your site get any free deliveries of wood chips or other resources like seed swaps that you could utilise to avoid spending. I’d be tempted with your strawberries to dig them up, discard the oldest looking/ any poorly growing ones and put them in pots temporally, then clear a bed/ area completely to plant them up in rows well spaced and they will be ready to grow on and fruit this year.
This RHS link will help you id your weeds…
https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/common-weeds
Thanks again.
Good idea about moving them to pots. Buys me some time.
Most weed identification relies on having leaves to compare. But that will help, so thank you.
I've met the site supervisor, and he doesn't seem to give a dam. I asked him about the rules on sheds and greenhouses and targets and he neither knew nor cared. He say's he's on the 'committee' but they don't even meet up till March. Much about the allotment association seems haphazard and amateurish. So I don't think he'll be on my back about those targets. I suppose throwing some plastic or card down and staking out areas will count as 'cultivating'
I wonder if Covid has anything to do with the state of neglect. I would have expected the opposite.
-
The first season is always the toughest.
Working to your advantage - we are still in winter. Nothing is growing rapidly at this time of year, even the weeds. Depending on your location you may have until early April before the weeds will start to growing at any speed. Working steadily it is amazing how much can be done. Most important is getting to your plot regularly. If you are retired, a weekend visit plus a couple in the week, could give you thirty sessions.
Card and plastic covering is very good at weakening weedy top growth and will pretty much eliminate annual weeds while you are tackling other areas. Rather than the hard work of digging it might be better to try forking over initially. This gives you a chance to check for perennial weeds roots and riddle them out. Don't try to compost any of these just bag them and put them in the dust bin. The perennial weeds are your main potential problem. Ideally you want an area cleared of perennial weeds before starting a strawberry or raspberry bed.
When springs arrives try growing spuds on any rough areas. They are good at suppressing weeds and earthing up helps reduce weeds too. You get a final weed clearing boost digging them out. As areas come under control get a good hoe and use it, and use it again and again and again.
Finally, while many contributors here avoid herbicides and pesticides you could consider knocking the growth down with a herbicide and digging it over once it's clearer.
-
The first season is always the toughest.
...
Card and plastic covering is very good at weakening weedy top growth and will pretty much eliminate annual weeds while you are tackling other areas. Rather than the hard work of digging it might be better to try forking over initially. This gives you a chance to check for perennial weeds roots and riddle them out. Don't try to compost any of these just bag them and put them in the dust bin. The perennial weeds are your main potential problem. Ideally you want an area cleared of perennial weeds before starting a strawberry or raspberry bed....
Finally, while many contributors here avoid herbicides and pesticides you could consider knocking the growth down with a herbicide and digging it over once it's clearer.
Thanks. So far, I've been using the fork to loosen the nice sandy soil and then pulling the weeds out lock stock and barrel. Most stuff then went straight to compost. Unfortunately I don't recognise the weeds, so I could be brewing up trouble. I tried to separate out seedy stuff.
Digging with a spade is far far to much like hard work :happy7:
Might put down some roundup, but I'm reluctant to, especially if covering works something like..
Hopefully a good session tomorrow (Sunday) weather permitting.
-
Should I bother to salvage those by weeding around them? Or maybe dig them out and move them? Or will they be worthless weeds themselves by now?...
Rotovating is not in my plan. I could strim it, fork it or dig it, but I want to save some effort. How much weed root can I get away with leaving behind? (How long is a piece of string)
Ooooh Boy..... I just gave it two and a half hours and I'm cream crackered. Getting into it slow and steady. :coffee2:
I'm giving myself a bit of variety by having little bursts of digging up big tough weeds in one area and snapping off easy old dead ones in other areas. A scattergun approach to wear out my body evenly. For now I'm working on an area where there's nothing worth salvaging, because I found that worrying about a few old fruit plants just slowed me down. Rather than progress from one end to the other, I'm taking out the bits where I can make fastest noticeable progress, mostly attacking it with a rake which seems to shift more bulk quickly.
It's nice to see some progress but I'm just scratching the surface and leaving lots of roots behind. It's going to take a few passes to ever get any area completely ready to sow.
Next time I might try strimming some, though what I'm doing now is getting a lot of roots out.
Compost heap is getting well fed,
I'm trying to make it look like I'm 'cultivating' as big an area as I reasonably can to keep up with those silly targets..
-
Hang onto the rhubarb, it's mighty hard to kill and, once it sprouts and you can see where the edges are, you can clear round it. It's also a PITA to dig out - I made the mistake of trying to move mine, it had a taproot about the size of my thigh!
Roundup won't work unless things are growing so at this time of year it won't touch much apart from groundsel, which is easy to clear anyway.
-
Hang onto the rhubarb, it's mighty hard to kill and, once it sprouts and you can see where the edges are, you can clear round it. It's also a PITA to dig out - I made the mistake of trying to move mine, it had a taproot about the size of my thigh!
Roundup won't work unless things are growing so at this time of year it won't touch much apart from groundsel, which is easy to clear anyway.
.
Good points.
The rhubarb is now weeded around and it looks like it wants to prosper. I'll let it do it's thing.
I really want to avoid weedkillers, since this is to be for growing food.... That and weedkiller is expensive :icon_tongue: I think, deep down I knew that weeds need to be green and growing to be nuked by weedkiller. Hopefully I can suppress them more naturally.
Too cold today to do much.
-
I would suggest buying a digging hoe. It is surprising just how fast you can clear a piece of land. They seem to have gone up a lot in price, but ebay still seems to have some Silverline which are not too pricey.
Any space that you cannot clear I would suggest covering in courgettes, squash and pumpkins. They are allelopathic and kill most things round them. Once they have finished the space they leave will be easy to cultivate.
-
I would suggest buying a digging hoe. It is surprising just how fast you can clear a piece of land. They seem to have gone up a lot in price, but ebay still seems to have some Silverline which are not too pricey.
Any space that you cannot clear I would suggest covering in courgettes, squash and pumpkins. They are allelopathic and kill most things round them. Once they have finished the space they leave will be easy to cultivate.
Thanks. Good plan. I've been hacking at it with a rake in the same way as you use that digging hoe. That action seems to work well and is less backbreaking than digging.
I hadn't heard of Allelopathy. Sounds handy.. Probably explains why my courgettes stifled my beans and peas this year.
-
It’s also easy to grow squash and courgettes through cardboard. Simply make holes for the plants and let them spread over the cardboard. It keeps them clean and the cardboard will suppress any further weeds. It does stop the squash throwing down extra roots but they still seem to thrive and produce in my experience.
-
If you’ve got a good sized compost heap, in June put a bucket full of decent soil of muck in a hole on the top and plant courgettes or squash in them. The roots get a bit of extra warmth from the heap and the growing plants will cover the top smothering weed growth and shading the heap a bit plus you get a bonus crop as well!
-
It’s also easy to grow squash and courgettes through cardboard. Simply make holes for the plants and let them spread over the cardboard. It keeps them clean and the cardboard will suppress any further weeds. It does stop the squash throwing down extra roots but they still seem to thrive and produce in my experience.
I like the idea of courgettes through cardboard to keep them clean.
If you’ve got a good sized compost heap, in June put a bucket full of decent soil of muck in a hole on the top and plant courgettes or squash in them. The roots get a bit of extra warmth from the heap and the growing plants will cover the top smothering weed growth and shading the heap a bit plus you get a bonus crop as well!
Not a bad idea, though that would stop me turning the compost heap?
Plus what do I do with all these darned courgettes and squash, I haven't eaten last years yet. Indeed I got so many, and gave so many away, I ended up composting some.
The compost heaps are getting big, but they are new and 'fluffy', having come from the weeds.
-
A lot of good advice already in, but a couple of things caught my eye - both in the area of that helpful new? US? proverb "don't let 'Perfect' be the enemy of Good".
1) Turning one or two compost bins is perfect - turning a mountain of compost is silly - it will do a good job on its own - & long before you will have time to use it. Growing stuff on the heaps is the best possible plan - in fact creating planters with pallets or builders' bags will allow you to plant carrots (especially red/purple ones) too high for the "fly". White or yellow ones do OK at ground level for me - but the taste is different.
2) No perennial weed can withstand being dried out - once it's crispy-dry it's dead & double-dead (I've done the experiments) - then you can compost them with everything else and avoid gassing your neighbours with smoke pollution.
If you have a lot then you need to find some metal grilles or mesh (or netting 'hammocks') to spread them out above the damp soil. Once you've done this they will dry out twice as fast (and rain just washes the soil off so they dry nearly as fast as in a drought). This doesn't only apply to dandelions & docks etc. it also applies to couch grass and bindweed - though both routinely go down a spade depth and bindweed needs to be followed wherever it goes deeper. Neither of the latter 2 buggers can be killed in water - it's a popular suggestion but it's 100% nonsense (not to mention the smell).
One more thing - perennials can be weakened a lot by a year under black plastic - but it has to be 100% opaque. I made the mistake of using silvered (painted) tarp but when I held it up in summer it was only 90% opaque - it killed a lot of stuff in winter but by March, grass and even chickweed were flourishing under it. My temporary fix was to spread a mat of "safe" weeds to dry on it, a better solution is 'roof-tiling' it with whole opened newspapers held down with tree & branch prunings - surprisingly windproof & the tarp or plastic is key to stop weeds escaping through the gaps. The result also UV-proofs the plastic - it's (I hesitate to say it) Perfect and cheap (even foxes give up trying to dig through tarp).
Cheers.
PS. on light soil you may find the soil dries out under the middle of wide plastic - so lay in 1.2m strips across any slope - that way if you move to raised beds (on my plot it's indistinguishable from terracing) then you'll already have the perfect covers for them.
-
A lot of good advice already in, but a couple of things caught my eye - both in the area of that helpful new? US? proverb "don't let 'Perfect' be the enemy of Good".
I absolutely get that. If I try to either do too large an area, or clear any area to perfection, then I'll miss any sowing/growing opportunities. So I'm definitely going for 'acceptable quantity at acceptable quality in acceptable time scales. If that means I only cultivate a modest area and still have some ongoing weeding to do, then I'm fine with that. I know how easy it would be to obsess but never finish anything useful.
1) Turning one or two compost bins is perfect - turning a mountain of compost is silly - it will do a good job on its own - & long before you will have time to use it. Growing stuff on the heaps is the best possible plan - in fact creating planters with pallets or builders' bags will allow you to plant carrots (especially red/purple ones) too high for the "fly".
I like the idea of multiple modest compost heaps in pallet enclosures. The plot came with one rather large heap of rubbishness piled up against the perimeter fence. It's as overgrown as the rest of the plot. I'm inclined to start two or three new ones and feed the old one into them.
2) No perennial weed can withstand being dried out - once it's crispy-dry it's dead & double-dead (I've done the experiments) - then you can compost them with everything else.
That's good news. There's much dried out cane like weeds, many with seed heads that look quite dead. I was a bit concerned about those seeds being viable, but thinking about it, all the viable weed seeds probably already sowed themselves.
If you have a lot then you need to find some metal grilles or mesh (or netting 'hammocks') to spread them out above the damp soil. Once you've done this they will dry out twice as fast (and rain just washes the soil off so they dry nearly as fast as in a drought). This doesn't only apply to dandelions & docks etc. it also applies to couch grass and bindweed - though both routinely go down a spade depth and bindweed needs to be followed wherever it goes deeper. Neither of the latter 2 buggers can be killed in water - it's a popular suggestion but it's 100% nonsense (not to mention the smell).
I think there are few modest patches of bindweed which I'm paying closer attention to. Very few docks or dandelions. There is some ivy ground cover. Fortunately the soil is light and sandy, so roots are not TOO hard to get out.
One more thing - perennials can be weakened a lot by a year under black plastic - but it has to be 100% opaque. I made the mistake of using silvered (painted) tarp but when I held it up in summer it was only 90% opaque - it killed a lot of stuff in winter but by March, grass and even chickweed were flourishing under it. My temporary fix was to spread a mat of "safe" weeds to dry on it, a better solution is 'roof-tiling' it with whole opened newspapers held down with tree & branch prunings - surprisingly windproof & the tarp or plastic is key to stop weeds escaping through the gaps. The result also UV-proofs the plastic - it's (I hesitate to say it) Perfect and cheap (even foxes give up trying to dig through tarp).
Plastic sheets (sadly not proper black membrane) and masses of cardboard are in my plan. Especially cardboard, which i have a good supply of.
Thanks for your input.... Now if we could just have some nicer weather, please. Weeding in snow and mud is not my idea of fun.
-
Every new plot I have ever taken over has been grown in. Don't be fazed by it. My method is drag out the trusty asian hoe and chip the weeds out, raking all the rubbish to a long mound at the bottom of the plot. Then start digging a couple of yards a day chucking all the bigger roots on the mound. You then have a cultivated plot even if you are not planting, normal size plot takes 2 to 3 weeks doing a couple of hours each day before breakfast. Cover the mound in builders plastic that can be got free if you are a skip diver. Make a few holes for the dreaded courgettes. Then you can start the finer digging for planting. Move any plants that have been left by the previous tenants to where you want them, the old spot would have used up all the goodness where they were and rhubarb like its roots frosted, doing more than a couple of hours each day will just wear you out and early morning stint will stop all the natterers holding you up.
-
an early morning stint will stop all the natterers holding you up.
Some of the best advice may not be about growing!!
-
My method is drag out the trusty asian hoe and chip the weeds out,
Thanks. It may make you chuckle that I googled Asian Hoe and got a youtube video "Different Types Of Thailand Hookers In Action"
:happy7: :toothy10: :toothy10: :toothy10:
I've ordered one. I hope the right type comes.
raking all the rubbish to a long mound at the bottom of the plot. Then start digging a couple of yards a day chucking all the bigger roots on the mound. You then have a cultivated plot even if you are not planting, normal size plot takes 2 to 3 weeks doing a couple of hours each day before breakfast. Cover the mound in builders plastic that can be got free if you are a skip diver. Make a few holes for the dreaded courgettes. Then you can start the finer digging for planting. Move any plants that have been left by the previous tenants to where you want them, the old spot would have used up all the goodness where they were and rhubarb like its roots frosted, doing more than a couple of hours each day will just wear you out and early morning stint will stop all the natterers holding you up.
Some great advice. I haven't yet had the resolve to attack it every day, or before breakfast. I need to pull my finger out.
Yes, I've been raking the easy stuff off. Fortunately not many big roots: All shallow so far
I keep seeing the courgette advice, so I'm inclined to germinate a few seedlings ready to go.
-
Far too early for sowing courgettes - and most other things!
-
I've ordered one. I hope the right type comes.
Just remember it is the hoe that does the work, if you ache afterwards you are using it wrong
-
Just remember it is the hoe that does the work, if you ache afterwards you are using it wrong
Steady on, old chap!
-
Lots of advice on here for you Harry. I took on my plot in my mid to late fifties whilst I was still working full time. My plot is 34yd by 9yds and it had not been cultivated for at least 2 years, remains of an old greenhouse, glass everywhere. Nothing left that was worth saving. I filled skip after skip with rubbish let alone the weeds which I tried to compost after I had built my compost bins. My wife thought me mad for taking it on but when taking on a new plot you know what you are taking on its a case of take it or leave it. In year one I cleared it from one end to the other and set what I could. Not a great crop but it was a start and it only gets better. I cannot blame the committee for setting cultivation targets although the 50% after 3 months is a bit tight. I ran our site for a couple of years and its a thankless task too often people would take on an allotment and you would not see them after the first 3 months then you have all the hastle of getting rid of them.
You say that you are aiming to cultivate 20 to 25 square metres and cover some of the rest of the plot with whatever. If that's your target fair enough each to it's own but you are not going to set much in 25 square metres. One suggestion I have for you is buy an Indian type digging tool ( an Azada ). I bought one when I took my plot on and it certainly helped me clear it. When all said and done you cannot beat hand weeding you will not clear any patch completely after getting on for 20 years I still get loads of weeds. The main thing is don't get too down hearted Rome was not built in a day. Sign up to the major seed companies and then when they have seed clearance offers buy your seeds.
-
Lots of advice on here for you Harry. I took on my plot in my mid to late fifties whilst I was still working full time. My plot is 34yd by 9yds and it had not been cultivated for at least 2 years, remains of an old greenhouse, glass everywhere. Nothing left that was worth saving. I filled skip after skip with rubbish let alone the weeds which I tried to compost after I had built my compost bins. My wife thought me mad for taking it on but when taking on a new plot you know what you are taking on its a case of take it or leave it. In year one I cleared it from one end to the other and set what I could. Not a great crop but it was a start and it only gets better. I cannot blame the committee for setting cultivation targets although the 50% after 3 months is a bit tight. I ran our site for a couple of years and its a thankless task too often people would take on an allotment and you would not see them after the first 3 months then you have all the hastle of getting rid of them.
You say that you are aiming to cultivate 20 to 25 square metres and cover some of the rest of the plot with whatever. If that's your target fair enough each to it's own but you are not going to set much in 25 square metres. One suggestion I have for you is buy an Indian type digging tool ( an Azada ). I bought one when I took my plot on and it certainly helped me clear it. When all said and done you cannot beat hand weeding you will not clear any patch completely after getting on for 20 years I still get loads of weeds. The main thing is don't get too down hearted Rome was not built in a day. Sign up to the major seed companies and then when they have seed clearance offers buy your seeds.
Thank you.
I have a slightly oversized plot. Should be 75 sq m. but seems to be close to 90.
The cultivation targets are in the rules, but I doubt they are enforced. The site manager shrugged at every mention of the rules. He pointed out a couple of plots rented but untended and didn't seem to care.
I keep seeing the advice to get one of those Azadas, so I will invest in one. Knowing my own limitations, i just want to take it steady and show acceptable progress with a small area of max produce. It is daunting, but I won't let it dishearten me unless I have disasters.
Weeds are a worthwhile adversary. I won't begrudge them the odd victory :)
-
I have an azada and a Canterbury fork. I use the Canterbury fork far more for clearing and renovating weedy areas on my plot, the using action is the same but it is easier to use and penetrates the ground better than an azada. Wear a hat when using it though or you will have loads of soil in your hair!
-
Wear a hat when using it though or you will have loads of soil in your hair!
Blimey! you are lifting that very high, mine never goes above waist high.
-
I like to really whack the dreaded couch grass then lever it up, let’s all the aggression out! 🙄🙄🙄
-
My advice is to look at your whole plot and prioritise:
1. Nasty weeds such as docks, stinging nettles, ground elder, brambles you don’t want, giant plantain,
dandelion, creeping buttercup, bindeeed - get rid of these by digging out as best you can all over the plot
2. Get rid of or stack at the back of your plot broken glass (use gloves), rotten wood, old tyres, rusty metal, old carpet full of weeds, metal tins no longer holding water etc
3. Choose an area roughly 5 metres long across your plot and dig it to remove weeds. I find it easier to
use a fork as it causes less damage. Put the weeds either in a compost bin already on the plot or just
pile it up in a heap. You can make a. Compost bin later.
4. Rake your soil until it looks beautifully fine and weedfree.
5. Then repeat 4,5 choosing the easiest part every time until the whole plot looks immaculate
6. Build a compost bin with 3 or 4 pallets wired together and put in all your weeds.
7. Sow your main crops in a greenhouse or windowsill and transplant to your plot.
8. Beetroot, carrots, parsnips, broad beans you can sow direct when the soil temperature is warm enough
Chris Donohue
-
My advice is to look at your whole plot and prioritise:
1. Nasty weeds such as docks, stinging nettles, ground elder, brambles you don’t want, giant plantain,
dandelion, creeping buttercup, bindeeed - get rid of these by digging out as best you can all over the plot
2. Get rid of or stack at the back of your plot broken glass (use gloves), rotten wood, old tyres, rusty metal, old carpet full of weeds, metal tins no longer holding water etc
3. Choose an area roughly 5 metres long across your plot and dig it to remove weeds. I find it easier to
use a fork as it causes less damage. Put the weeds either in a compost bin already on the plot or just
pile it up in a heap. You can make a. Compost bin later.
4. Rake your soil until it looks beautifully fine and weedfree.
5. Then repeat 4,5 choosing the easiest part every time until the whole plot looks immaculate
6. Build a compost bin with 3 or 4 pallets wired together and put in all your weeds.
7. Sow your main crops in a greenhouse or windowsill and transplant to your plot.
8. Beetroot, carrots, parsnips, broad beans you can sow direct when the soil temperature is warm enough
Chris Donohue
Thanks Chris, Great answers.
I'm lucky that there's very little rubbish on site, just a few bricks and buried carpet tiles. As I've said before, I'm unlikely to cultivate the whole site this season. I don't want the perfect to be the enemy of the good. "whole plot looks immaculate" is a big ask if I'm to grow food this year.
I plan to get 1/3 or so of the plot as good as possible and sown ASAP and another 1/3 to follow in time for some later sowing. 1/3 will probably be a bit less than perfect :)
There's an existing composter comprising a good steel fence with a couple of chicken wire sides which I can augment with pallets. That's getting a bit full, so I'm thinking of a bulk bag self contained composter as well. Woody weeds I've just set aside for now.
There's a few bits of bramble gone wild and raspberry's that I hope to bear fruit. I'm working around them, with a big central area for new veg.
I'll be starting some seeds later this month. I hope to get some easy crops like chard, beetroots, peas beans, spuds, carrots and onions.
Unfortunately no green house yet, but I'l be building a big cloche and already have a small one.
Rake, Azuda and Fork for sure. I'll barely use a spade.
-
Following up on this... Some random thoughts... Just thinking out loud...
... As I battle on with a mix of overgrown and uncultivated areas, areas I've raked, areas I've tarped and areas I've treated with Glyphosphate, I thought maybe time to regroup and re-canvas opinions. Maybe my floundering will help newbies.
For the record, I'm no sort of purist, so I don't rule out weedkillers. I did use some old stock of tumbleweed to knock back half my area of weeds. I AM, however trying to be very frugal. No point spending a fortune for a few pounds worth of veg. But equally, I'm time poor, so I don't want to waste one moment of hard graft. I want to get max bang for my buck of spending and max effect from my hours of digging and weeding.
And before anyone mentions no dig, I'll say great, but where can I get many cubic metres of compost for no cost.
Random observations.
I have marestail and bindweed to contend with.... And some couch. My plot is divided into beds with carpet file paths between.
I've had some success with leaving ordinary blue tarps down. But this late into the year is not ideal. Ideally, I'd have covered the plot at the end of the last growing season, but i only just adopted it.
Old carpet cover is the old fashioned free way of suppressing weeds, but carpet is banned on the site... except what tiles are already there.
I'm currently a bit too tight to spend ~70p / sq m on Black weed control membrane. It's among the most cost effective ways I've discovered, but getting dearer and I'm resisting the expenditure.
Glyphosphate weedkiller was appealing to me, until I saw the price of it. HELL's teeth £10/Litre and that won't even kill my marestail.
I ruled out rotovating at day zero because of the marestail and bindweed.
I ruled out digging over with a spade, after I tried it and found that too spread those perennial weeds. Plus I'm lazy.
Some good progress weeding with just a fork and a rake, but it's hard work and I find it easy to miss patches as I'm digging. Soil I raked or disturbed keeps covering and obscuring areas that I haven't actually dug.
Now.... I have access to lots of cardboard. Not the thickest of stuff, but plentiful.
I've followed advice here and bought an Azuda (Asian hoe) Highly efficient and recommended!
I've also read all about no-dig, and though I LOVE the idea, I balk at buying the tonnes of compost needed to cover my site. Besides, if my soil is decent, then I'm inclined to grow in it.
So, this is where I'm at, so far. and I'm still learning.
FIRST for any area as yet uncultivated, roughly scrape off tall weeds top growth with a rake, just to get some sort of level. Take the rubbish offsite, lest it contains marestail.
Spread a tarp over the top and weigh it down with bricks. Cost negligible.
Embracing the Azada, for each growing area slice out a row of soil. Rake it, weed it. TRY to get most weed roots, but don't expect to get them all. To hell with digging deeper than a spade length. Do a bed sized patch.
Then rake some WELL rotted horse muck/compost (acquired almost free through Facebook marketplace)
Then I tread it and level it a bit and cover it with cardboard ! Cut some holes and slits and sow through the holes. Cost is still negligible. I popped some spuds and courgette seedlings in in the hope that they will grow quickly and dominate the light.
On to the next bed area.
I could be quite wrong and silly, but it strikes me that the card will suppress ongoing weeds almost enough, just as it would with no-dig, but without the cost of that 3" of compost. As the card gets ruined by rain, just replace it with strips of the same. I am considering covering the card with grass cuttings from my garden or whatever neutral mulch I can get for nothing (wood chippings?)
Some weeds do pop up through the sowing holes but attack them with a trowel or hoe.
I don't know if this is at all sound, but so far it's minimised expenditure and effort. Quite how long the cardboard barrier will last is the big unknown.
Incidentally, I lifted my carpet tile paths as I worked and weeded those areas too. LOTS of nasty weed roots were lurking there.
Some of my beds were boxed in with old rotten wood which might have been useful once, but as it rotted and got broke, I just removed the wood. Apart from demarcation, what was it actually adding by way of value? The beds were not particularly raised.
-
My random thoughts:
If I found my new plot was mare's tail and bindweed, I'd give it up. You are a better person than me.
I started off when about 15 years ago I took on my plot (grassed over and unused for a few years) as an old school gardener. I dug (and even double dug) it and got out much of the main weed - couch grass. It's clay soil and I think that digging helps get it into a physical state in which you can effectively incorporate compost - humus - to open it up. Clay soils form a "pan" about a spit or two down which is a barrier that impedes movement of water and nutrients. Whether annual digging is beneficial on the improved soil I'm not so sure now. I'm looking more to cover, mulch, lightly fork, but I'm a way off that yet as a total approach.
That said, if you grow potatoes, you will be digging a part of your plot every few years when you lift the crop. A good opportunity to see what a large area of soil is like and apply improvers.
Cardboard is great. Break open a stout box, place it where you have weeds - even bindweed - and cover with (ideally) wood chippings. If the covering is too light, you will need bricks or such to hold it down. It will suppress growth for a few weeks, and when it rots then, you can easily weed out what comes through (dandelions mostly). I use it mainly on the permanent paths but also between bean rows, etc. You could certainly plant courgettes, squash etc through it. The cardboard lasts only one season but the wood chip works on.
Similarly, carpet or plastic sheet clears the area of vegetation and gives you the clear space to start from. Then keeping that clear is the issue.
I use other mulches of varying cost and greenness, but would benefit from obtaining some good heavy duty plastic sheeting to use over winter. When I ask other plot holders where they bought theirs, it's usually been a builder's skip! My neighbours are not so accommodating when engaged in construction works.
Green mulches - a friend is a strong advocate of these as a soil improver and preventing erosion over winter. You just dig them in - or even plant through them. I'm wondering if they would be my new weed ...
Finally, the hoe, strimmer and mower are your friend (but I am not as well acquainted with them as I should be).
My next job is clearing the nettles and dandelions out of my raspberry bed. It may be easiest to lift the raspberries too.
-
Thanks PaulH for the helpful replies.
My random thoughts:
If I found my new plot was mare's tail and bindweed, I'd give it up. You are a better person than me.
Thanks. I considered surrender, but every plot on the site has the same combo to some extent and yet others manage to grow good crops. I don't expect to eradicate them, but my crops will have to coexist and compete.I started off when about 15 years ago...
I dug (and even double dug) it... It's clay soil and I think that digging helps... Whether annual digging is beneficial on the improved soil I'm not so sure now. I'm looking more to cover, mulch, lightly fork, but I'm a way off that yet as a total approach.
Crikey: 15 years of digging clay! Much kudos to you. I would surrender if I thought I was going to battle like that. Apart from the weeds my soil looks like excellent loam. Dead easy to fork through and the azada makes light work.I aspire to only single dig enough to do SOME weeding and then enough to get my crop out (if and when)That said, if you grow potatoes, you will be digging a part of your plot every few years when you lift the crop. A good opportunity to see what a large area of soil is like and apply improvers.
Indeed. Digging to sow those gave me a fair idea. Even a spade and a half down, I was still in good loam with no stones or rubble.Cardboard is great. Break open a stout box, place it where you have weeds - even bindweed - and cover with (ideally) wood chippings. If the covering is too light, you will need bricks or such to hold it down. It will suppress growth for a few weeks, and when it rots then, you can easily weed out what comes through (dandelions mostly). I use it mainly on the permanent paths but also between bean rows, etc. You could certainly plant courgettes, squash etc through it. The cardboard lasts only one season but the wood chip works on.
Thanks for confirming I'm on the right track.Similarly, carpet or plastic sheet clears the area of vegetation and gives you the clear space to start from. Then keeping that clear is the issue.
If I'd had the plot before Jan, I'd have had more success with tarps, but it definitely helps and lots cheaper than weedkiller.I use other mulches of varying cost and greenness, but would benefit from obtaining some good heavy duty plastic sheeting to use over winter. When I ask other plot holders where they bought theirs, it's usually been a builder's skip! My neighbours are not so accommodating when engaged in construction works.
I love skip diving, but not yet found any of that membrane. But I do have some huge tarps from a project. Probably let some light through, but nothing's perfectGreen mulches - a friend is a strong advocate of these as a soil improver and preventing erosion over winter. You just dig them in - or even plant through them. I'm wondering if they would be my new weed ...
I'm only just picking up the idea of green mulches (clippings) And I share that concern. Also harbouring slugs and snails and other critters.
Finally, the hoe, strimmer and mower are your friend (but I am not as well acquainted with them as I should be).
I've never used a hoe before and I don't think I have the technique. it just seems to move the weeds, not chop them. No electric mains for strimming and nothing flat enough for mowing.My next job is clearing the nettles and dandelions out of my raspberry bed. It may be easiest to lift the raspberries too.
I have a patch of raspberries which will have to fend for themselves for a while.
-
Harry, if you struggle with a hoe look for a Dutch hoe. No, not the sort of thing the Dutch are getting a bit peeved with young British tourists seeking , but a garden tool with a much easier mode of use than a draw hoe.
-
You mention a lot of ground prep but have you been planting up the cleared areas yet? Getting potatoes in and growing and the foliage will suppress the weeds for you, any nasties you miss you can dig out at harvest.
Also I’d recommend getting your hands on any paving slabs you can on Freecycle or Marketplace, lay them on old compost bags or similar to make a semi permanent path or two, then you won’t spend time clearing paths as well as beds!
If you have anywhere at home to raise seedling you can give them a head start before planting out which will reduce your failure rate compared with sowing direct. Big leaved plants like courgettes and squash will also naturally suppress weeds once they get going, you can even plant them through cardboard that will help even more to knock the weeds back.
You will have to learn to live with some weeds as they grow back from the smallest bit of root left in….like most people I’ve spent years digging out couch on my plot but the bindweed is now knocked back enough just one bed suffers with it but I keep it planted up and the crops still grow ok!
-
You mention a lot of ground prep but have you been planting up the cleared areas yet? Getting potatoes in and growing and the foliage will suppress the weeds for you, any nasties you miss you can dig out at harvest.
Yes. Sorry, I've been sowing. My plot is about half a dozen beds and I ensured to sow something immediately after clearing half or a whole one. That's part of my distress: I thought I'd cleared a bed pretty well before I'd heard of marestail. Sowed spuds and carrots and onions and now have these blasted marestails springing up everywhere between them. My carrots havent even germinated and peas/beand are getting disturbed as I try to remove the shoots. Rather p155ed me off. Plus I may have consigned some marestail to my newly created heap in it's formative days. :(
Also I’d recommend getting your hands on any paving slabs you can on Freecycle or Marketplace, lay them on old compost bags or similar to make a semi permanent path or two, then you won’t spend time clearing paths as well as beds!
Good plan, but there are many metres of carpet tile paths and it would take a lot of slabs. If you have anywhere at home to raise seedling you can give them a head start before planting out which will reduce your failure rate compared with sowing direct. Big leaved plants like courgettes and squash will also naturally suppress weeds once they get going, you can even plant them through cardboard that will help even more to knock the weeds back.
All of that is now the core of my plan, especially the sowing through card.
You will have to learn to live with some weeds as they grow back from the smallest bit of root left in….like most people I’ve spent years digging out couch on my plot but the bindweed is now knocked back enough just one bed suffers with it but I keep it planted up and the crops still grow ok!
Crops growing ok will be the measure of 'success' regardless of what weeds survive. It looks a bit messy just yet where I've stomped over my beds pulling roots. Disheartened. I'm taking to a dutch hoe next.
But as I walk around the site, i see other plots, well tended and with neat rows of veg's in beautifully tended soil.... and there, too I see little marestail trees up to 6" tall. I figure if those diligent tenants have the problem, I'm not to feel too bad. Also, While others have it, I'll always have it come back.
A plot adjoining mine is massively overgrown with nothing but weeds. I may grumble to the committee about that.
-
WHen we took over our plot it was a jungle. Babies heads, Dandelions, blackberries, bindweed and couch grass. The grass was about 30 cm high. We worked on a set amount of area per visit. Strimmed, dug out deep rooted stuff: - blackberries, dandelions, bindweed, docks, thistles etc, cleared top surface grass with a spade - and began to dig, clearing couch grass as we went. Once we'd managed to clear a few meters of space we tested soil, put in some blood fish & bone (we had nothing else) and planted a few onions and potatoes. We managed to clear half the plot in hte first season clearing, digging and planting as we went. I hope you get some area cleared, there is lots you can put in right now. Very bestest and good luck x :blob7:
-
WHen we took over our plot it was a jungle. Babies heads, Dandelions, blackberries, bindweed and couch grass. The grass was about 30 cm high. We worked on a set amount of area per visit. Strimmed, dug out deep rooted stuff: - blackberries, dandelions, bindweed, docks, thistles etc, cleared top surface grass with a spade - and began to dig, clearing couch grass as we went. Once we'd managed to clear a few meters of space we tested soil, put in some blood fish & bone (we had nothing else) and planted a few onions and potatoes. We managed to clear half the plot in hte first season clearing, digging and planting as we went. I hope you get some area cleared, there is lots you can put in right now. Very bestest and good luck x :blob7:
Thanks.
Indeed my approach is to take it bit by bit. Clear, sow, clear more, sow more: Pace myself and sow regardless of the odd bit of weed. Then let them fight it out. Spuds look like they know how to compete. :happy7: Even the strawberries are up for a fight and can out-weed some of the weeds.
-
Clear, sow, clear more, sow more
Don't you have any facilities to sow seeds at home?
This way they can be growing on when you are clearing!
-
I use the term 'sow' loosely, to include planting out. Sorry.
Yes. My kitchen windowsill is constantly full of germinating seeds.