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Produce => Recipes => Topic started by: okra on June 27, 2011, 08:37:30
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Bottling is a very useful way of preserving your fruit gluts for use throughout the winter. Fruit selected for bottling should be fresh, firm and free from signs of disease.
Hard fruits should be washed thoroughly and left to dry before preparation. Soft fruits should be soaked in a salt solution for five minutes to remove any insects or grubs and then left to dry before preparation. Bottling is best done using glass jars, such as the Kilner jars, which have airtight tops.
Prepare hard fruits for bottling in syrup as follows:-
(1) Apples and pears should be peeled, cored and quartered.
(2) Apricots, plums, nectarines and peaches should have stalks removed and bottled whole or halved and the stones removed.
(3) Figs should be top and tailed and washed
Prepare soft fruits for bottling in syrup as follows:-
(1) Strawberries should be hulled and carefully washed
(2) Blackcurrants, blueberries, cherries, raspberries and redcurrants should be de-stalked, washed carefully and any fruit showing maggot damage discarded.
Syrup:-
Prepare a syrup for packing fruit by using 250g of sugar for every 600ml of water. Dissolve the sugar, over a low heat, in 300ml of water and once dissolved add the other 300ml of water.
Pack the fruit tightly into pre-sterilised preserving jars and pour over the syrup. Tap the bottles to remove any air bubbles before sealing. Store in a cool, dry and dark area and enjoy through the winter.
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Sorry, but I have to add.. you should then put the jars in a large pan of bpoiling water which covers them by two inches at least and boil them for the approprite time for the size of the jar and ther fruit it contains which varies a lot..
It is no longer considered safe to seal without waterbathing as there is still air and bacteria in the jar , this is driven out in the waterbath and gives a safer product.
I bottle/can everything , fruit, veggies, merat and fish and have done for 45 years.
I taught home home preserving for many years too.
The bottling/canning suggested info has been changing for a long time to reflect safer methods.
I can give a new link , as I have many times on here to the newest regualtions in food safety..
There are several other methods for fruit too, hot pack, cold pack(as above) and several differnt syrups from very light to very heavy.
XX Jeannine
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Does any one still bother to do all this? I shove stuff in the freezer for over winter use but that is as far as I would go. Often some remains when I am harvesting the next years yeild.
Agreed in remote areas and certain parts of the globe it is necessary but for most of us, we grow to eat fresh and depend on the supermarkets to keep us out of season.
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I do a little bottling, although I don't have the truly huge gluts to contend with that some of us do.
I've just bottled eight 500g jars of redcurrrant syrup that will sit on the shelf until I want to make a jelly - the dessert kind, that is, not the preserve.
At this time of year, I find bottling useful even though I have two freezers: In late summer and autumn, I have both freezers in use. Then, after Christmas, I just eat my way through as much as possible so that between, say, Easter and late summer, I can keep one switched off. If I hadn't bottled the redcurrants, I would have had to switch on my second freezer this week and run it almost empty until stock has built up again. In past years, I've frozen the syrup because it's quite efficient use of freezer space. The only extra work I've had this year is the actual bottling.
Bottling has been well and truly out of fashion in the UK, but I think it's getting more popular - even Sainsbury's is selling Kilner jars! :o ;D
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^^ but you need to be set up to do it. I did a few runs of "boiling the whole jar" last year and you can really only do one jar at a time, you need enormous saucepans and you end up with scalded fingers from trying to tip the hot water out in to the second saucepan with the next jar in it. Or you use loads of gas reboiling every jar from cold, which goes against the whole green ethos you are trying to embrace.
Having said that, it does give a good result. And you can do some pickles that way: veggies plus vinegar plus sugar sealed in a clean jar which is boiled for 5 mins and stored for a month, quite nice they are too.
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zigzig; not everyone has a house large enough to have large or multiple freezers. I would freeze everything if I could, but cannot. Bottling is a right pain, and when i first tried a few years ago, I found little help on how to do it in easy steps. Books only gave vague advice. In the end I found the microwave method most reliable, but even then I found some bottles didn't "seal" properly and leaked when cold.
Once I can get a 2nd freezer, then everything will be frozen...
I tried putting a 2nd freezer out in my outdoor brick shed (old bathhouse) but the first winter killed it, and I lost everything. I am not risking another one out there (though my neighbours has been fine...)
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Yes, everyone works out for themselves how best to preserve what they've grown, according to the size of their various crops and the space they have available.
I think that here in the UK our options have been limited by the fact that bottling was Not Done for a few decades - the World War 2 generation were glad to put all that stuff behind them and embrace easier options. I've taught myself bottling by cautious experimentation using old books, slightly adapting for jars which are now sized in metric. Luckily, there are new books out that tackle it, although the ones I've seen don't have the detail or thoroughness that the old 'uns did.
Jeannine, I stand in awe of your 45 years' experience. And you haven't killed anyone yet! ;D ;D ;D
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Is there a book that anyone can recommend on this subject. We are short on space, and some things I think might be better bottled than frozen. Many thanks in anticipation.
Spudbash I think you may be right. My mother could never understand me wanting to make things from scratch, wether it be clothes, pickles etc. When you could go and buy it in a shop.
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http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/publications_usda.html
this is the link Jeannine posted when I needed guidance :)
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I too would be interested in people's replies. The best I found, with the most information is http://www.amazon.co.uk/Preserves-River-Cottage-Handbook-No-2/dp/0747595321/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309352060&sr=8-1 It's not perfect, but it gives more information than most, but it doesn't gives times for pressure cookers, only oven and "water bath".
For example, no books I own, state whether the rubber seals should be on the jars, when in the oven. From instructions I guessed they maybe should, and I do, but I was never fully sure. Also books talk about the screw on lids in ovens (put on, but don't tighten fully) but they don;t say what to do with the clip on jars, as they are either open or closed, no interim settings.
Also, I find when cooled, the jars have not fully sealed (i..e. if tipped upside down they seep a bit of liquid) no book so far has a "why this may be" and whether they are not safe (I assumed not, and tried to re-do, but rarely successfully)
I really do think there's a market for easy step by step instructions in a book, and a "what can go wrong" and how to avoid it. I asked for advise on various forums, but so few people now bottle, I never got any answers
Good Luck
mat
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Years ago, in UK, I used to bottle some fruit in a heavy syrup, a little unwillingly as I didn't like eating that much sugar. When we bought a big chest freezer I changed over to freezing all our surplus fruit and veg.
Now in France, we only have a small chest freezer, but a very big veg patch and fruit garden. Bottling is the preferred option locally, and all supermarkets and DIY/Garden shops sell everything necessary, at reasonable prices. So I've relearnt old skills, but do things differently. I bottle in a 'sterilisateur' on a free-standing four-footed gas ring, using bottled gas. I can fit in 30 small jars of paté, for example, or a dozen larger jars of fruit. Times of sterilising vary according to what is in the jars - over 2 hours for meat, less for raw fruit, and even less for hot cooked fruit. I no longer use a syrup, just sprinkling sugar between layers as appropriate. I also bottle some raw fruit with no sugar (eg figs, apricots, plums, all cut into quarters and packed tightly into the jars) to eat for breakfast. As these start with no juice in the jars, I need to either weigh down the jars with garden stones or use the clips that come with the sterilisateur, to stop them toppling over.
I use both the the jars which have an outer screwtop lid and an inner metal lid with a rubber ring that you pierce to open. These can be done up a reasonably firmly as air can still escape during cooking. The spring clip jars (which I prefer) and rubber rings, (different types according to how long the cooking is) are completely closed for cooking, as air can still escape. For both types, after leaving in the water until cold, I always test the seal by trying to remove the lid, or unclipping the spring lid. It should be impossible, if they have properly taken.
I hope this helps and encourages.
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Hi again, so may responses..so one at a time.
The words bottling UK and canning US are both the same.. US canning is glass jars.Metal canning is also done but that is another topic.
The link pumpkinlover gave is the very very best one there is, and if you wish you can print off the whole thing, I do whenever there is an update. I never start a season without checking my equipment and that site.
There is also a very good book called Putting Food By, it is available on Amazon UK and is excellent. The most recent is a 2010 updated book. This also covers freezing and curing, the main thrust of the book is food preservation and it is as I said excellent.
Regarding boiling...you can boil meat till doomsday and you will not get it to beyond boiling point which is not a high enough temp to safely preserve any kind of meat, you have to use a pressure canner to safely preserve any meat or food containing meat or veggies.
Oven bottling had been considered dangerous for some years now so this is one to avoid.This makes the River Cottage book obsolete as I believe he uses that method.
Other no no are bottling in a slow cooker, microwave,and what is called open kettle..this is when fruit is cooked in a pan then poured hot into jars and the seal closes as the contents cool, yes the jars are sealed BUT the jars are not sterile, no matter what you do to them, the very second for eg a red hot boiled jar or lid is in the air it is no longfer sterile.. so boiling the jars with the food inside re sterilises the jar and cointents and forces the surplus air out, this makes the contents safe.
Re jars and lids
Only jars for canning are considered safe, so old jam jars etc are not.
Mason jars or Kilner jars with the two piece top that has a flat piece and a screwed ring.. excellent
Jars with glass lids that take rubber rings and have wire closures..not for pressure cooking, these are OK but not if the glass dome is chipped and the rubber rings should never be reused.If using old ones the springs should fit tight and not be rusted out.
Dangerous is..food covered in wax, or sealed with cellophane circles and rubber bands as it cannot be waterbathed.
Cold food in jars should always be covered in hot syrup not cold syrup.
Mat, see the book suggested above..Putting Foods By..it will answer all your questions,I promise as will the USDA on line link.
Every year all over the place preservers see these same questions.
I stopped sticking my neck out and correcting folks for a couple of years but cannot in all conscience do it.
Old fashioned methods of preservation are dangerous and can kill you and your family.
I have heard all the arguments...I have done it like this all my life and I am still here etc etc sadly the answer to that is you have been lucky. Spoilers in foods have changed over the years, the methods have to change to keep up.
I am not the food police,,another one thrown at me, but as with gardening, if you hear of someone who is going to spoil their veggies by incorrect methods I presume you would step in.
There are many old books out there which do not have up to date methods, I know that for a fact, I wrote two of them many years ago, but as with all things we learn and move on. The problem is in the UK food preservation is not as widely done as some countries so it has not been updated..
Home preservation is safe as long as you follow the modern rules
A large lightweigth stock pot is not expensive and if you dont have a rack to put in the bottom just fill the bottom with the flat screw rings from the jars, this will give a great rack`.Use tongs to pick up the jars, don`t leave them in the water to cool. If you have a few jars and spaces in the pan which would allow the jars to topple over, than just fill a couple of jars with water and pop those in, they will stop the others falling over.
So I have stuck my neck out again..
If anyone wants any more info, or if I missed a question ,just ask.
Happy preserving
XX Jeannine
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May I add a personal story to Jeannine's wise words?
This happened some thirty years ago, but emphasises the dangers of some of these traditional techniques, especially when combined with a bit of traditional frugality.
My old mum used to use these old methods, sometimes simply hot-packing and sealing, sometimes "steaming" the jars after packing. She also re-used old seals. She'd retrieved some fruit for pudding after Easter lunch, to which my wife and I were invited. Anyway, it was a pretty good feast, after which we were so full of food that we two went for a walk after washing up, leaving the parents to have a quiet relax.
It transpired much later that the bottled fruit had a mould on it, which my mother had simply scooped off. She believed in any case that moulds were beneficial since they were "penicillin".
I was the lucky one. To my embarrassment at the time, we hadn't walked more than a few hundred yards when I was violently and repeatedly sick at the side of the road. Whatever we'd eaten, I'd got rid of it straight away. My wife didn't suffer until later, and had two days off work. My dad was hospitalised.
It could have been worse. We hadn't yet had our children - toddlers might well have been seriously harmed. It could have been botulism, and no doubt the bodies of all four of us would have been discovered sitting at the table with our coffee.
Ignoring advice about acidity and heating times and temperatures just isn't worth the risk.
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You were ery lucky.. thank goodness it wasn't botulism.If it had been you would not have lived, more folks live these days simply because they get treatment quickly but back then..not.
I am always amazed when I hear the " a bit of mold won't hurt " it is so untrue.Molds are capable of producing myotoxins which can make you very ill.Plus they eat the acid in fruit which is the protection against the more dangerous poisons.
Simply it is not hard to preserve safely, but it is also not hard to do the opposite.
I read things all the time, sometimes I don't respond as I get alot of flack for it.
PH is the critical factor when deciding if a water bath is enough to safely preserve in a water bath but this has it's exceptions too. We used to say all fruit including tomatoes are OK as they are high acid .. BUT... tomatoes are right on the borderline at 4.0- 4.6,low juice toms being the less acid, the safety cut off number is 4.7 so one has to add vinegar, lemon juice or ascorbic acid to make them safe, however figs which are a fruit and one may presume will be OK are less acid than tomatoes so they too must have the acid added, they are 4.9 -6.0 , Figs sadly cause a lot of problems.
melbourne, did Mum continue to believe that mold was OK?
XX Jeannine
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Ive just opened a jar of jam i made in 2005! I make it up in a saucepan, sterlise the jars in a microwave,pour into jars and put in the garage to store. Have done for the last 20 years. Sometimes have had a bit of mold but just threw that bit away and ate the rest and im still here!! :D
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yep, there is always one who says it.. you have just been very lucky.
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Jeannine, many thanks for the info. Its much appreciated, as was the explanation about the words ''canning and bottling''. Now I no why my research hadn't made sense before. ::) ::) ;D
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melbourne, did Mum continue to believe that mold was OK?
I never found out exactly what the hospital had said to her, but someone must have spelled out the dangers in fairly plain language. She simply stopped bottling and jam-making. Since, if I'm honest, they weren't terribly nice, no-one in the family mourned their passing.
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Just read your post without reading the ones above-phew what a relief that you were talking about the "passing" of the jams! ;)
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Hi all, :)
I love to bottle fruit in Kilner type jars. I have two freezers, I make jams and pickles, sweet sauces and vinegars, and dry beans, I call the bottled fruit - pie filling. Its a good way of using pears (in a red berry sauce with fennel seeds.) I still have one big jar left from last year. Its like fast food but I made it.
I can boil three full jars at once in my biggest jam pan and they always stay sealed, they are actuallly hard to get open. I always consider grey moulds to be related to botulism (wether they are or not) but as I get more experienced I haven`t had spoilage in a long time.
I eat a number of home - preserved foods every day which is very satisfying, Col
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Although I appreciate the information I have never waterbathed or boiled my jars after filling them. I use old jam jars, pickle jars as does everyone I know - so apparently we are doing it all wrong. However my jams always last for years and never get mold on them and I never get ill. Maybe we are all lucky or maybe different methods work just as well.
The posibility of botulism is overplayed..Since 1989 there have been 33 cases of food-borne botulism in England and Wales - 27 of those cases were a single outbreak caused by contaminated hazelnut yoghurt.
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The posibility of botulism is overplayed..Since 1989 there have been 33 cases of food-borne botulism in England and Wales - 27 of those cases were a single outbreak caused by contaminated hazelnut yoghurt.
Indeed. And of the other 6, only one outbreak was caused by home bottling - mushrooms bottled in oil (brought back to England by a family visiting Italian relatives). Two people were affected, one died, the other recovered.
Two other cases were caused by home-cured sausage or pork brought back from Poland. One was blamed on houmus (unconfirmed) and one was unknown but contracted in Georgia.
So you're right on the botulism risk. But there are many other microbial sources of poisoning that may not be fatal but are nonetheless unpleasant. It's reckoned that at least 50% and up to 95% of food poisoning cases go unreported.
Even if the result of eating badly preserved food is just a gippy tummy, why give yourself the problem?
And besides which, properly and hygienically made preserves are just so much better in appearance and taste.
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I agree with what you say Melbourne and am always intersted in other ways of doing things. If it makes better preserves then I'll happily use other methods - Im just not totally convinced.
Anyone know if there is any scientific research on this matter?
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Anyone know if there is any scientific research on this matter?
The USDA is really the best source (as per Jeannine's link). They include on their website a scientific literature review here http://www.uga.edu/nchfp/publications/usda/review/content.htm from which you can get references to the original research papers.
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Cheers - Plenty to read there if you click through.
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Again I say..buy the book in the UK called Putting Foods By, it is completely thorough, is less than 10 quid and will keep you safe and well informed.Amazon has it.
Barrie, no there are not other ways that work, the UK is uneducated on this so they cling to what they know,,the US Dept Agriculture keeps a very up to date site on the subject, the UK government does not..however, if methods that keep your family safe are available why not use them..why even take the risk. Kids are more vulnerable, this is what folks are putting at risk.
It is typical UK to sneer at the US advice, we hear it all the time..but I am English and I have seen a group of kids who got sick at a birthday party after eating incorrectly preserved jams that were used in a cake. It was not a pretty site and I swear I am telling you the truth..this is the risk.So it has never happened to you, it has happened to Melbourne's family.
Botulism is the top of the heap for nasties and is usually caused by veggies, fish or meat but molds are capable of all kinds of trouble,why feed it to kids. Mold can be in jams that one cannot see with the eye,so you cannot say you have never had mold, you have just never seen mold, that is not the same thing.
I cannot begin to share with you how scary it makes me feel when I read things like that, I know the dangers, you simply do not, so I am scared for you and your family.
I don't want to be rude.Don't take my word for it, ignore Melbourne by all means but educate yourself.
XX Jeannine
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Jeannine,
Im not ignoring Melbourne or indeed you and I am not uneducated ;)..
I understand perfectly what you are saying and I understand the dangers - I just think that they are minimal and the risk very very small.
I am almost completely unconcerned about the risk of botulism
I have a few preserving books and they give different advise - I am not after more preserving books - What I would like to see are comparative studies of preserving techniques carried out under rigorous conditions.
I will try to get time to read the studies behind the US gov site (I dont trust any political advice unless there is good science behind it) and I am more than willing to change my mind and the way I make jam if there is compelling evidence.
BTW I don't really have a family - its just me and the OH and she hates Jam!!
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Whenever this topic comes up on here I am always confused by it.
Regarding the risk of botulism.....
Are we talking about bottling vegetables meat and fruits?
Are we including jam in this?
I understand the risks when bottling vegetables, meats and fruits and that bottling these three items has become unfashionable in the UK. This why I believe we have little information on it. Thank you Jeannine for giving us the information on this subject. I have no doubt that you have a great understanding and a lot of knowledge when it comes to preserving.
Personally I throw away any home made preserve that develops mould.
With regard to making jams without the final stage of a hot water bath.....
My friends and family have made jam without the hot bath method for years and I have never been aware of sickness from jam due to botulism. Of course the victims may have died after putting the evidence back in the cupboard. Are we in the UK just lucky?
I hope Barridale gets back to us once he has researched this subject.
Like Barridale I would like more information.
Our government obviously doesn't recognize the risk?
BTW...I have bought PUTTING FOODS BY for £3.24 on amazon
Duke
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The USofA may feel the UK is uneducated, but I am afraid I do not trust all of the US advice either... I will not buy US Beef, as it has been pumped with steroids... And the amount of chemicals used on their crops is horrifying.
The US is often over precautious. Look at the story a few days ago where a US reservoir was emptied and wasted because a man was seen peeing into it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This was a WHOLE reservoir. Urine is normally sterile. The concentration of one human pee in a reservoir is almost unmeasurable... I bet the concentration of bird poo in there would have been far higher!!!
I am afraid I am going to carry on buying/making home made jams made the "old fashioned" way.
I agree, when bottling veg and meat, it's a different matter, but not fruit in syrup and certainly not jams.
The UK haven't bothered to revise their advice yet on jams and fruit bottling in http://www.amazon.co.uk/Preservation-Fruit-Vegetables-Fish-Agriculture/dp/0112428649/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1309472026&sr=8-1 and still supply this doc!!! (I have a copy somewhere)
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Each to their own I guess, but I try..
Duke,Great you bought the book, I do hope you bought the updated 2010 one as I said in my earlier post, the earlier one is obsolete now. Re botulism, yes it is usually in meat, fish and veggies but it can show up in any low acid food given the right conditions, which is why figs are very vulnerable and tomatoes are right on the edge. The usual problem with even high acid fruits and jams is mold and what mold can bring, but it is very easy to protect yourself. It takes more care, more outlay financially and you can't cut corners or be lazy all of which are reasons why some folks don't bother.That I know to be a fact as I have been told so may times from folks who used to do it the old way.
I have the English publication shown on Amazon, it is way out of date which is what I said in my earlier post UK dept of Ag is not updating so is way behind.
I can't speak for the whole of the USA re the education generally of the UK folk but I do know and I am English and that as far as food preservation is concerned they certainly are poorly informed ,some out of ignorance (as in don't know) and some out of misguided bravado .I was one of them till I studied the subject, took college courses and learnt all the angles and will gladly admit it.I knew diddly and could well have made my family ill. I feel now I am very well educated on the subject and I have taught many classes on preserving. I would call that educated and feel I am in a good position to be able to pass it on rather than..."this is the way I have always done it and I am not dead!!"
If I wanted to know how to grow spuds or garlic I would ask someone who knew a lot about it not someone who couldn't recognise late blight or didn't know what kind of ground they needed and I would be more than happy to learn from them. If I was in a situation where the manure on my site was contaminated I wouldn't;t carry on using it because so far the effects hadn't hit me yet. I would listen to someone who had read and had the experience I clearly lacked. I simply would not take the chance, no matter how small it was, I wouldn't;t take the risk with myself and perhaps more important with my family who trust me to make their food safe. Most of us wouldn't.
Yet every year I hear the same comments, eventually the UK Dept of Ag will wake up, a certain lady chef will stop using out of date methods and perhaps most importantly folks who have never preserved will find out how to do so before they start and then keep up with the changes.
You know every year I stick my head out on this subject to try to help those who don't know.The whole reason for my posting is to get to those folks who are new to this and at least open their minds to investigation. If one person reading this is sufficiently interested to learn modern food preservation I have done a good job,despite the discomfort that it always brings to me. I can do nothing for the others..sadly.
XX Jeannine
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Jeannine, can I just says thanks for continually sticking your neck out on this one! I've bottled fruits and jams in a bit of a haphazard way over the last couple of years and since I've got a pretty strong constitution I've never worried too much. Now having a baby in the house has made me really stop and think about the fact that I'm playing russian roulette with our health. Going down to the basement to throw whatever's left down there away!
Will have a look through your links & do things properly when I do the next bottling session. :)
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Thank you Mrs Gumboot, you are very kind sometimes I don't reply as I get so much flack but feel I should.
Don't be put off, it really is easy to do it without worries. Getting the right jars is perhaps a number one need, we found when over there they were very expensive which is a pity but I truly feel that if folks begin to use them more the cost will come down. We found that one of the spaghetti sauces used a proper "mason" jar and I had the two piece lids sent over from the US to fit them so we were OK,,mind you we ate a lot of spaghetti that first year. I think they changed the jar though, you could check , it was Bertolli and was in a square jar, it had mason and the usual fluid ounces marks right on it.
I don't mind sending the caps and lids over if folks cannot find them. Here the whole thing, jars, caps and lids only cost about $7 dollars a dozen sadly too heavy to post, and id the UK catches up with preserving I think they will be cheap there too.
Good luck with your preserving, the book I suggest is truly excellent but please get the new updates version however if you can handle the printing ink cost you can print off the whole of the USDA book for free, It is about 2 inches thick.and will tell you everything you need to know.
Thank you again
XX Jeannine
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It is worth it buying jars straight from manufacture/importer in bulk if you use more than dozen jars in a year. They are not that expensive neither..perharps the delivery is the bit more expensive part of it...but if two or three people share the order then its not bad at all.
I buy honey jars in bulk..and just to give some idea what those cost they are about £40-£50 per gross..that about 140 odd jars with lids...and when you buy straight from the source..usually you can buy spare lids as well. So in future you only need to replace the lids which is around £10-£15 for that amount of jars.
Obviously prices differ depending a jar..but those prices give some sort of idea of the cost.
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here is one company I've bought jars from..http://www.bottlecompanysouth.co.uk/index.html (http://www.bottlecompanysouth.co.uk/index.html)
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I collected those pasta sauce jars and I am about to get rid of them because the lids needs replacing.
They are square and have an embossed tomato design on one side and bertolli running upwards next to thefluid marks. I do think the jar has now changed. I will try to track down some lids here. I saved those Bertolli jars because I thought they looked rustic, :)
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Goodlife, just a point.If buying jars with lids bear in mine that those with plastic lids will not stand the procedure for most canning and the glass is not the same as the KIlner/Mason jars.
There are several companies in the UK now that offer the Kilner two piece snap lid and even the imported Ball ones, both will go right up to pressure canningThey are currently costing about 22 sterling a dozen with the two piece lids,m replacement caps for lids are about 3 sterling for a dozen.
I realise that this is expensive if you need a lot but I would not advise going to the cheaper plastic lid ones.
I use about 20 dozen or so in a season usually, sometimes more so buy them on sale when I can. I gave away this amount in the UK before we left,,we did offer them free for pick up on A4A but no takers.
There are companies in the US that will ship to the UK but the shipping cost may be high,.but the jars will be cheap so it may work.
Someone needs to go on Amazon.com and see what the shipping is to send a dozen jars to the UK. I can't do it from this endT.hey may not ship.
The names you need to be looking for are Kilner, Ball, Mason, or Ball Mason, all with 2 piece lids.
The honey jars sold in the UK do not go to the heat needed and the tops are not correct.
XX Jeannine
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Duke...DO NOT GET RID OF THOSE JARS.. send me a picture.
The screw lid on the jar is no good to reuse but if it is the same one as it used to be, the two piece US lid is what you need, I will send you some.
If it is the original jar, the lid will be about 3/4 inch deep, if it is the newer one it will much shallower. The screw parts on the glass are deeper on the old jar.
Once you get the two piece lids, the screw ring can be used for year, the caps have to be replaced but the kilner caps will fit. Once your food is fully sealed and cooled, you can remove the screw ring, the cap will not come off, so you don't need as many rings as you have jars .If they are hard to find you can get away with just a few.
If you can get mne a picture of the jar I can tell you if it is the original one.
XX Jeannine
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I just had a look couple of sites selling jars..and most of the jam jars are sold with metal lids..and as for prices..jam jars are for some reason sligtly cheaper than honey jars. ???
Note..just to make clear..I don't use honey jars for jam..it was just price example what jars cost.
I haven't looked for jam jars myself before as I don't need them..but now that I have looked I noticed that you can buy lids for most of the jars that you find in shops.
Jeannine..wouldn't those metal lids with pop up centre take the canning procedure..?..well any metal lid that is meant for jam jars ???
I didn't come across any plastic lids for pickling or jam jars....
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here is example for those lids..would those do for proper 'canning'?
http://www.jarsandbottles-store.co.uk/index.php/glass-jar-lids.html (http://www.jarsandbottles-store.co.uk/index.php/glass-jar-lids.html)
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Kilner jars and and spare lids..those two part lids too.. ;D ;)
http://www.jamjarshop.com/buy/kilnerpreservingjars/?catid=46 (http://www.jamjarshop.com/buy/kilnerpreservingjars/?catid=46)
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What's the recieved opinion on Le Parfait Jars?
http://www.waresofknutsford.co.uk/products_level4.htm?cat1=Preserving+Jars&cat2=Le+Parfait+Jars&id=20718
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Goodlife, your last link for the kilner two peice lids is fine. I am not comfortable with the one piece lids for my type of canning,they are also too expensive as the whole thing has to be chucked instaed of a thin cap with the two piece.I do not recommend them. I am not sure about the quality of the glass they fit too, maybe considered jam jars in nthe UK if you are using the old methods but I would want to know a lot more about them re heat stress etc before I would use them or suggest them
La Parfait jars are good qualitythe glass is strong and user friendly , they are pretty and if in good condition very useable.The only down side is they will not stand up to repeated use the same as the Kilners as the spring fasteners tend to loosen over time,it is a common problem with all spring fasteners, you still have to replace the rubber seals and they are more expensive, if you have them and they are in good shape with new sealers use them they are fine but I wouldn't go out and buy them if the Kilner jars where by there side.
The Kilner jars on that site are good, again I would prefer the two pice lids rather than the springs , the prices for new caps is disgusting though., I could ship 4 times the amount for that price..I pay less than 1 pound sterling for caps. It bothers me as the cost encourages folsk to reuse them
XX Jeannine
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Hi Jeannine,
I have just checked out the jars and have a mix of both old and new bertolli jars. the new jar has a modern looking chunky lid and the older jar has a lid that looks more like a preserving lid but in one piece. Thank you so much for offering to send me some lids however I have found a UK site that holds them in stock. :)
Thank you for mentioning this in your post as I was about to send my jars to the bottle bank. My jars have been saved !! ;D
Oh ... What is your opinion re WECK JARS. I really do love WECK JARS.
Duke
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Oh ... What is your opinion re WECK JARS. I really do love WECK JARS.
Duke
I love the look of WECk jars, but don't know where you can buy them in the Uk. Only place I've found them online is http://www.brouwland.com/en/
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You can buy them here....
http://www.blisshome.co.uk/products.asp?d=84&page=0
But they are so expensive in the UK.....and so cheap in Germany.
Duke
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Dirt cheap on German Ebay site and some ship to the Uk. Very tempting....
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i have agree with : Jeannine on following modern canning/ bottling method
especially using tested recipes(canning certified recipes),cooking times/temperature/pressure requirements and proper bubble depth should always be used.
pickles and jam recipes are least likely to problematic due to high acidity and high sugar content respectively. But there are still issues to worry about.
ps in case jams and jellies make sure you use fresh and properly stored pectin.
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Duke,, truthfully I don't know Weck jars.
I am so glad you saved the jars, it is only the one that has the deeper lid that will take the two piece ring and cap and you need the standard size not the wide mouth. Let me know if you get stuck I can send some.
XX Jeannine
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Duke,, truthfully I don't know Weck jars.
XX Jeannine
I use Weck jars, Le Parfait, Leifheit, US mason jars and also reuse sauce jars with click top safety lids. All work on the same principle - sealing sterilised food inside jars with vacuum pressure. But the checking process, to make sure that the jars have sealed correctly, is done differently. The US jars and reused jars with safety lids make an audible metallic popping noise when they seal shortly after coming out of the waterbath. After that, they can't be 'clicked' anymore, but this is a test best done, when the jars have cooled down. Trying to 'aid' sealing by clicking on the safety button will not result in a seal, the lid must pop down on is own.
With jars that use rubber rings it is necessary to wait until the food is fully cooled before checking for seal. The clips are taken off or the spring clips on a Le Parfait jars are unclipped, then the jar is lifted by its lid alone. If the lid is held on tightly by the vacuum created, then a hermetic seal is achieved. Should it lift off, the contents should be put in the fridge and eaten quickly because they won't be preserved.
Leifheit, kilner and US jars that have a ring or clamp placed around the lid during processing don't need these anymore after the lids are sealed and the contents have cooled and they should be taken off for storage. Two-part lids that are sealed securely don't click anymore and are held onto the jars by vacuum alone without rings, same as the glass lids of other types of jars.
After making sure that the correct sterilisation times for weight of contents have been observed, the check for correct seal of lids (whatever type are used) is the last thing that needs doing to ensure the contents are safely preserved.
The lid check needs to be repeated just before opening jars of preserved food. There is the familiar audible pop on opening metal safety lids when the vacuum pressure equalises. There is a loud hiss of air when a rubber seal is released by pulling the tab on jar types with rubber seals and glass lids.
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You have got me worried now, I just make jam and put in jam jars, washed, and even in drinking glasses if I have run out of jars. Then stick foil on top if I run out of lids, usually keep it in the fridge and try and eat it in weeks. If it goes mouldy, throw it. Still here but may check the fridge and do a bit of chucking, as I don't eat a lot of jam. Never give it away as know that I don't seal properly. Think I will start putting the fruit in the freezer and give up on jam making until I have all the proper equipment. Sometimes the shop bought jam goes mouldy in the fridge, once it has been opened, my Mum always used to scape the top off and we ate it, maybe we will lucky.
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Duke,, truthfully I don't know Weck jars.
I am so glad you saved the jars, it is only the one that has the deeper lid that will take the two piece ring and cap and you need the standard size not the wide mouth. Let me know if you get stuck I can send some.
XX Jeannine
Thanks for this I have always wanted to make my own jams and pickles but have lacked the confidence. I am ordering the book on Amazon. I have some Kiliner (I think) vintage jars I will look out.
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Hector the book you want is this one..but make sure you get the 2010 or 2011 one, the older one is still available on Amazon but is obselete.
Another way to check your selas by the way , Tap hard on the top with a teaspoon a well sealed jar gives out a good clear sound an unsealed jar gives a thunk.. try it with a couple you know to berigh and one that you have opened, the sound is very different.
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You have got me worried now, I just make jam and put in jam jars, washed, and even in drinking glasses if I have run out of jars. Then stick foil on top if I run out of lids, usually keep it in the fridge and try and eat it in weeks. If it goes mouldy, throw it. Still here but may check the fridge and do a bit of chucking, as I don't eat a lot of jam. Never give it away as know that I don't seal properly. Think I will start putting the fruit in the freezer and give up on jam making until I have all the proper equipment. Sometimes the shop bought jam goes mouldy in the fridge, once it has been opened, my Mum always used to scape the top off and we ate it, maybe we will lucky.
You could maybe make, cool and then freeze your jam in smaller portions and bring out one portion at a time. This way you don't need to worry about seals and the jam would keep. The small portion would most likely be used up before it can grow mouldy and the rest of the jam stays safe.
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Borlotti - you say you do not eat jam much. do you eat yoghurt, I mix jam in with plain yoghurt which is lovely and helps you get through more ;) I only make jam in 2lb of fruit batches and keep rest in freezer till I need it. (luckily got big chest freezer in spare bedroom)
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have a mix of both old and new bertolli jars. the new jar has a modern looking chunky lid and the older jar has a lid that looks more like a preserving lid but in one piece.
Duke, if it isn't cheeky, can I send you a lid or a photo of a lid off a Bertolli to see if I have ones that can get Kilner lids/seals for? I think its a newer one as no gradients/Mason letters on jar? It seems to have a pressured lid with poop up message?
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Does any one still bother to do all this? I shove stuff in the freezer for over winter use but that is as far as I would go. Often some remains when I am harvesting the next years yeild.
Agreed in remote areas and certain parts of the globe it is necessary but for most of us, we grow to eat fresh and depend on the supermarkets to keep us out of season.
Bottling has some advangtage over freezing, one is you do not need to remember taking things out of the freezer, just open a jar.
I did a lot of bottling some 40 years ago while living in Germany, then I had all the equipment, last year I started doing it again and I am finding very enjoyable I already had very large pans from years ago, so it has been easy to start again.
Tonight I am doing some peaches with brandy.
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Welcome to A4A Chonette. Peaches with brandy - now that sounds like a Christmas time treat.
We also like bottling. Freezer space only goes so far and once bottled, the produce is safe for a long time without any further power input. When the children were younger we went camping and a few bottles came with us too. Last year I did a lot of tomatoes. I fancy doing another batch of dilly beans with the Cobra beans, an american recipe for a cross between bean salad and relish - very good.
What happens to the alcohol in Peaches with brandy? Does the waterbathing process cook it off?
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Welcome To A4A chonette. I've just read my post and a lot changes in 3 years. I'm now bottling fruit and tomatoes as freezer always full! I use pressure cooker instead of water bath and seems to work fine. Mr PKL perfected the method and so rarely have a breakage.
Are they home grown peaches?!
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:icon_cheers: Almost bottling time and I have just eaten yummy bottled gooseberries from last year. Still have loads of jars left and also blackberries from the year before. I almost panicked this morning when I took in the fact that my blackcurrant bushes are very loaded this year and so is my freezer, before I start. Then I remembered about bottling
I already have a good store of kilner jars and new tops but I will be checking those this week. I don`t pressure cook but I do use a hot water bath and precise timings and temperatures. I find I can get 3 jars into my jam maslin, on a trivet and I can also get 3-4 in a large tall pressure cooker that I use without the lid. I scalped my gooseberries this year as I am trying to grow as standards for easy picking and so far so good, they are all each supported by a metal pole. There will only be a handful this year
Am also going to bottle apples for the first time. I have thinned them somewhat but will wait until mid july now for the important thinning. I`ll still have far to many for one
I do love my own fruit all through winter and so worth the effort now