Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Lil on October 13, 2003, 15:40:15
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Hi ya
Can anyone give me any advice.
I am taking over lotty number 2 soon and am having chickens on it.
Can anyone tell me if its better to get babies so they'll get to know me and be friendly and love me like a mummy hen ;D, or to get those that are already laying?
How old are they before they start laying anyway?? ??? ???
I like the idea of rescuing animals ( husband despairs at this, I am like Ace Ventura) so I read about buying battery hens? Where from if thats not a stupid question, and do you have any p roblems when you rescue battery hens?? ::) :-/
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Cannot help with buying ex- battery hens, except to say that Warrens or ISA Browns which are the standard are disposed off by the farms when they have reached the end of their useful life. If you get them they will continue to lay but not as well as young birds. At what age to buy, depends on when you get them. If now then young ones would be better. They will mature over the Winter and start to produce eggs in Spring. Laying usually starts at 18 weeks dpeneding on the breed. The bigger the later. They usually do not start laying until about a fortnight or so after you get them. They need time to settle in. In any case they start to moult around now and stop laying anyway until they get new feathers. Have a look at the poulty club web site it gives a reasonable amount of info and links to other sites with even more. Have fun with your feathered ladies. Oh and you do not need a cockerel unless you want to breed, hens lay just as well without male attention.
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Always wanted a thingyerel.
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thingyerel ha ha that's the "intelligent" anti-rude word filter kicking in again eh Dan !
did you mean c o c k e r e l :-)
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Lil,good on you for thinking of ex battery hens,but the poor things are usually slaughtered because noone wants to spend the time getting them able to walk again.Yes,they literally have to learn to be a proper chicken.Years ago my mother kept hens in a huge field and they came and went as they pleased.I cannot remember where she got some battery hens from,but the sight of them when we first got them made us cry.They could hardly stand up,never mind walk.They had very few feathers and were thin.It was awful,but with time they did recover,and went on to lay eggs as well as the others.
The only suggestion i have is that you contact the RSPCA and ask if they know of any that need a home.Worth try.They are real characters,chickens and once you have kept some,you will be hooked!!
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gawd!!! :o
The more I hear about battery hens the more I am determined to get them rather than new babies.
Can't bare to think of em bein slaughtered.
Thanks for all the help.
I will try the rspca....it had never entered my head to contact them.
I can't wait to get them...but won't get keys for new lotty until December. :'(
Want it now!!!!
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Hi Lil.I have just typed into the search facility Rescue a battery hen and lots of pages have come up.You should be able to get lots of info there and probably contact numbers for rehoming some.Good luck,and bless you.This is one of the worst aspects of factory farming and although they are eventually phasing it out in Europe,not nearly quick enough for my liking.Actually,Germany are going to be the leaders to stop the cruel practice.It is why I have been a vegetarian for over 16 years and I will only ever but free range eggs where I can see the hens conditions.
Best Wishes
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me is veggie too maggie because i can't stand the way that animals are disregarded and seen as some object like a wooden table. >:(
It breaks ya heart when ya think about those poor chickens . I read that minimum space that they have to provide for each hen in batteries is three quaters of an A4 size piece of paper. No room for movement there then. No wonder they have trouble knowing how to walk.
Ah gawd...just realised i'm on one again. I'll put the soap box away...sorry ::)
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Hi, My sister used to keep some Free Range Hens on her small holding, and a few years ago she got some Rescue Battery Hens, and I felt so sorry for them, :'( as she had to teach some how to balance on a perch and they didn't seem to know how to scratch. Some actually did prosper and it was lovely to see them living much better lives, :D but some were so weak that they didn't survive. It is a disgrace, >:( and I don't blame anyone for getting on their soap box because I feel the same way. It amazes me that some are still reared in this cruel fashion. I became a veggie about twenty years ago, but I don't object to people eating meat as long as the animals are reared with respect. Hope I don't sound too sanctimonious:-[. It just lights my fuse this sort of thing. ::) busy_lizzie
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Please don't put your soap-box away, Lil - just hope that it's a strong one and can support someone else??
I'm a City Slicker, born, bred & where I'm happiest....had a spell of living in Tim's World (Glos) & for the first few weeks the sheer silence of the place kept me awake at night & could only get to sleep when I heard the roar of the truck traffic along the 'old' A38...(early 80s). I wasn't very happy.
But growing my own veggies & becoming aware of pesticides/sprays etc.while I was there opened my eyes to what else I was unwittingly ingesting - and, for me, that was the appalling cruelty & unnatural conditions under which the bumper-packs of chicken legs, for instance, had been 'produced'...
and eggs? ahhhhh! why had I never stopped to think that 12 eggs at 67p for 12 from a Supermarket had factored-in profit for everyone from the 'producer' through the 'packer' (including the cost of the packaging) to the transport cost of the eggs & the Supermarket itself - and what 'profit', even in terms of humane(? wrong term??) living conditions was the battery hen getting out of all of this???
'growing' my own hens/ducks/ geese(disastrously - vicious things!), eating the eggs & sending the little loves off to the farm next door for a swift despatch, was an easy option while in Glos.....buying 'guaranteed' free-range stuff in the City less so...
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..move over, Lil...I'm back!!! ;D
so, wanted to carry on...I'm back in my 'Natural Habitat' but more aware now of how the food I eat is produced..
Can buy my 'organic' Gloucester Old Spot' pork and sausages, but I'm still wary about eggs...
'Free-range' can mean that the poor things can 'range freely' (under flourescent lights) in barn, for instance??
...and so on...
RIGHT!!! Time for me to step down...next one up, please??? - Lish
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Hi.It's me again,all.I have a very large and sturdy soap box when it comes to animal rights and I will let no one knock me off my perch(joke?).Lil,Busy Lizzie and Lishka,it is so nice to find decent people with feelings and awareness of where their food comes from.I have approached the managers in the 3 supermarkets I frequent about why they still stock these horrible eggs and have had different reactions.But basically they all say that as long as the consumers demand cheap eggs,they have a duty to supply them. >:( :o
What a load of rubbish!! Marks and Spencers and now Waitrose,I believe,have stopped selling them and I bet they don't get complaints.If there were no battery eggs to buy,the price of free range would come down and people would have to buy them. :o
Years ago I actually dumped a "Toy Boy" who was good looking and great fun....until he opened his gob one day when we were discussing the matter and told me not to be so emotional because if the hens weren't happy in their cages,they wouldn't lay eggs!!Have you ever heard anything so STUPID?!! Our relationship had no chance after that!! ::) :'(
Lishka,if you are not sure about the eggs you buy,check that the label says Freedom Foods as these farms are monitored by the RSPCA.And barn eggs mean just that.Apparently they are not much better because they cram them in.
When my husband first changed jobs the wretched company thought they were being generous by giving all employees a fresh turkey just before christmas.I was horrified and said"don't you DARE bring one home,I shall throw a wobbly."So for 2 years he had to take it straight to my mums instead. So she got the benefit( I haven't been able to convert her!)Luckily after that they started cost cutting so that was that!!
Sorry i will shut up now......................
:-/ :-[ :P
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how come you can say mens bits but not thingyerel?
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I'M NOW GOING TO BE VERY NASTY.
Having read everything you have all said, I now going to pull you all up very sharp indeed.
During August, I noticed a chicken in my next door neighbours plot had got a very large bulge under its tummy. I called Mark, and he then called his Dad. The poor little hen had become egg bound, and she was ruptured inside. So "Dad" pulled its neck to kill it, then took it home to put it in the pot. It should be noted that no way could Mark kill one of his own babies. A few weeks later, it happened to another hen, and I had to phone "Dad" at home to sort it - no good calling Mark.
The point is - when this happens to one of you chickens - one of your babies - Lil, how will you cope?
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I am not going to join in any debates on what we eat or do not eat. All I would like to add to this posting is that any livestock is a tie. You or someone has to deal with the animals at least twice a day. You have to remember that they will attract unwelcome attention from foxes, vermin and vandals. Unlike dogs and cats there are no kennels to put them in when you wish to go away on holiday and other people are not as reliable as you yourself. Finally to be very blunt about it, sadly animals die. Disposal of bodies can be very difficult these days. We used to bury our old age casualties in the garden, but I have a feeling that one is no longer supposed to do that.
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Had another thought, if you allow them to roam at will, they dig great big holes to dust bathe in and they like you veg as much if not more than you do and younger.
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Hi Colin and Eric.I agree with the points you make,that any animal should not be taken on lightly,they are a commitment and there will be possible vets fees,proper housing to construct etc.My mother had chickens for over 25 years,and for most of that time lived in an area where there were foxes.I know how you feel about them,Colin,but each evening,at dusk she locked them up securely,and she never ever lost any to a fox.The only time she had one killed and several injured,was when a dog got into the back garden through the hedge because it wasn't under control,and ran amok through the chickens.It was horrible.The man was not the slightest bit apologetic.The point is of course that on an allotment you are not there all the time and yes,I would prefer to have any creature I was responsible for under my watchful eye.But life is not always that simple.Still,Lil has time to look at the options and work out what is best for them,and i'm sure she will consider their welfare.
When did you hear about not burying animals in the garden? I have heard that as long as it is not near a water course you are O.K.
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i'm back to reply ;D
Cheers for the advice.
Yes, I know animals die, they get ill, (it hurts but is a fact of life) and that they are for life, not just a week till the novelty wears off. Believe me, I do not take on animals lightly.
My life already revolves around other species ( husband already despairs ::))
If the animals are ill, they go to the vet pronto if I can't deal with it. Am already on first name terms with vet ;D, the chickens will actually be on the allotment which is at the back of my mums house. She is 84 and I call every day to see her, also I pass the lotty on my way to work, so shouldn't be any problems on that score.
When I go away, I have a very close family member who cares as much as me, he will see to them, and have no quarms about the standard of care he gives. The dogs almost look depressed when I come back. ::)Also people on our lotties tend to each others when away. It has already been confirmed that god parents to the chickies will be around.
As for my soap box, I can't tell others how to live. My hubby eats meat, although he doesn't eat too much now ;D, but my principles are based on treat ALL as you would like to be treated in any given situation, and that applies to fur and feathers.
Here endith the lesson!! ;D
Oh to answer Palustris, already planned that. A brick base, like a greenhouse base,which is quite big, all covered including top in chicken wire, and door to another enclosure, which is dug well into ground and fully covered including top, and then chickens will be in a house inside that, with a separate house and run, grass, dust, pecking area etc. A bloke on our lotties has same design and its brill. He has had no trouble in the three years its been like that. When I'm on which is every day, they are out with me, and I'm sure I'll have fun keeping control (or not ;D ) around the veggies.Will have to grow more to accomodate the nicked food. ;D
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forgot toadd
I think you're right Palustris, I dont think that you can bury them any more like you used to. But people will have to do what I have done for years. When their time has come, I take them to the vet for cremation. It costs next to nothing considering the pleasure they give. It cost £10 for my rat Dylan ( he only cost me £3 :) ) but I loved him and he deserved it. A chicken would get no less.
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Lil, I'm going to be nice now. So glad you've got everything worked out (in respect of a terminally ill chicken) - I would have to do the same as you - I couldn't do what Mark's did - twice.
You mention you have dogs. What are they going to be like with the chickens? Mark's dog chases them all over the place. My Annie ignores them, and they ignore her - even to the extent that they will walk under her belly without reaction. She does react when they peck her toes, and jumps about two feet into the air. But she doesn't retaliate. The chickens and turkey are in a big pen and have a large shed at one end. When Mark was on holiday and it was my turn to put them away, I was glad that I had Annie to help me. As you got one into the shed - two would come out. Without Annie's help it could have taken an hour !!!
Best of luck - let us know how you get on - after all the above, we are all very interested.
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LOL Colin, Annie and the toes sounds so funny to watch.
As for mine, they're a lost cause. They are both american cocker spaniels.
Josie is 14, incontinent and has dementia. She is pleasantly potty and doesn't realise shes lost our reality. I don't take her to the lotty very often. She wanders off and can't find her way back so end up watching her more than what i'm doing. Tried her on an extending lead but she sat and chewed thro it. Shes better at home ;D, annoying the cats!!
The other one Poppy, is 12 and blind. She is a giddy knickers but the lotty is too much for her. She gets really disorientated and falls over things, then gets stressed. In environments she knows, shes great cus she knows her way around but shes never mastered the lotty. She headbuts the raised beds too ften for comfort (altho still wags the tail during it and comes to you saying hey look what I've just done, aint that funny :-/)
No, they are better not being around for all the best reasons ;D
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LOL thingyer spaniels!!!! ;D Now I know what people were on about with the cockerals!! ;D
Never heard the american spaniels called thigyers before!! ;D
I will be laughing about in my sleep....sorry admin, no disrespect n that...just so funny ;D
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Lil, I am so sorry to hear that your dogs have their problems, but I am sure that under your tender care, their quality of life is excellent.
Annie can't go to the Lottie for a while, and hasn't been for over two weeks. She has a cruciate ligament "gone" in her left knee, and the Vet has ordered complete rest, and toilet walks only. As we are normally a joined-at-the-hip pair, she has difficutly in understanding why she's left behind, and I feel dreadfully lonely when I'm at the Lottie, and the short journey to and from.
Got to go - time's nearly up and they'll cut me off - quite painfully I'm sure.
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poor annie, I hope she recovers well soon. Painful things ligaments. I once did the ankle and the pain was sooooooo bad.
Would she settle if you took her bed on the lotty for her to lay in?? its so hard isn't it because they don't understand why they are being restricted. Poor little love.
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Hi Lil, my comments about caring for livestock were not intended for you, as it is obvious that you have thought about it. We do not have dogs, (nobody in the family actually likes them) but we do have cats. (Rat hunters). They ignore the hens, but the thingyerel(sic) has been known to chase them when he is feeling particularly grumpy. You you see them scatter. The hens are also very good at chasing magpies.
One further point of information, if you do have a male and get fertile eggs the normal proportion of male to female is 6m to 4 f. And you cannot have that many males without trouble. We had chicks which matured while we were away on holiday and returned home to find 6 c o c k erels stood on the shed roof giving the neighbours a non-stop concert. The difficulty is that nobody wants males (feathered variety). Have fun anyway and hopefully you will be asking next for egg recipes.
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Hi ya eric
Thanks for the advice re males.
I'm not gonna breed. Have already got one human male, 1 cat male and 2 chinchilla males to contend with....Thats more than any woman can cope with, with out male cockerals as well ;D
The lotty is a strictly all female sanctuary!!! ;D