Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: rdak on February 11, 2004, 14:49:31
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Need to make some raised beds for veg in my garden. Was going to use fence gravel boards until I read that pressure treated wood can leach nasties (including arsenic) into the soil. Has anyone tried using wood outside that hasn't been pressure treated i.e. just plain rough timber? Wonder how long it would last?
Any other ideas for what to use are welcome. Thought about bricks on their side, but I want at least 1 foot depth. Has to look quite nice as it's in the garden.
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Eeeek Rdak, guess what I have just used! :'( Now I am in a quandry!
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DP, I wouldn't worry too much. I have already used gravel boards before for veg beds..although haven't tried eating the veg yet!
Have a look on Google Groups under the newsgroup uk.rec.gardening. Some people are very anti using pressure treated wood in veg beds, others say that the amount leached would be minimal.
I'm not about to dismantle my existing one, but reading the threads on there has convinced me that any new ones won't be made from them.
anyway..risks are all relative. It's probably more risky to your health to drive a car every day!
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Well Rdak if you and I grow a new heads outta our backs, or turn barnsley blue maybe we have to replace our original ones!! ;)
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In my garden I use scaffold boards stained blue with environmentally friendly stuff - in the lottie I use them unstained. Have also used scraps of untreated grooved boards like decking boards two high for small 80 cm x 80 cm herb beds - they look really nice with the grooves facing outwards and not like rough timber.
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where did you get those Ceri- I thought all decking was pressure treated.
and also, where did you get the scaffolding boards?
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decking from a trade place in Co Durham somewhere - scaffolding boards eerrrrrr.... from my scaffolding yard (hey you don't have your own company and buy your own paperclips now do you!!) - worth ringing round scaffolding firms in your area to see if they have any old 2nd hand you can get cheap - they come new in 13ft lengths and often they have to be cut down for a job so you can get smaller lengths - also they should be stress tested for strength every year and scrapped if they are not strong enough (few smaller firms actually do this in practice mind!) Just don't tell the scaffolding firms I told you to ring them or I'll be clobbered!!
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I was offered old scaffold boards at £8 each!! Was a bit steep for my pocket, hence the gravel boards...£1 each!
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I made my existing raised vegetable beds with pressure treated boards 13 years ago, and most of the boards are still in reasonable condition, although a few are starting to break down. I don`t think that either I or my vegetables have suffered any ill effects.
Scaffolding boards are just as likely to be contaminated as pressure treated boards, since after years of usage they are likely to have suffered all maner of spillages from such things as paint thinners (of various kinds) paints (ditto), mastics, cavity fillers, mortar additives, and a whole host of other (some quite nasty) building materials. And, of course, being untreated they will quite simply rot a lot more quickly.
Personally I`d prefer to take my chances with the treated boards, but I`d leave them out to weather for a few weeks first.
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Yes ... I've just gone for gravel boards too as my research locally indicated this to be the cheapest option :o
On my lottie untreated softwood lasts a couple of years if you are lucky. No sign of any damage yet to the gravel boards which are about four years old.
In my back garden the beds were edged with tannelised timber. After five years or so they are rotten - falling apart - eaten by something or other, it seems (probably woodlice).
AC x
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I know this may sound stupid - but what are gravel boards? Where can you get them from and are they small enough to get in the back of a car with all the seats put down.
linsdownoptimist
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they are used below fence panels, so that the fence is not in contact with the soil. if the gravel board rots, easier to replace than a panel.
Get them from any DIY shop like B&Q or a garden centre- they are about 6 foot long and about 6 inches high- so unless you have one of those SMART cars, they should fit in! They cost about £3-5 as far as I remember.
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Doris_P, that's a silly price - you should be paying £3-4 2nd hand, new £6.00 - I think probably the nearest to you would be Surrey Hire and Sales, its a branch of Georgian Scaffolding. Alternatively walk past a building site and be very nice to the site agent (if you are long-winded enough they'll give you a few boards just to get rid of you!!). I have a golden rule never ever to pay for anything for the garden unless I really have to - paying out hard cash as the first option seems to go against the whole lottie culture! I've had my garden raised beds in about three years now, and the boards are just beginning to swell a bit now
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Love the philosophy Ceri - and agree with it - but here on the edge of London you have to pay thru the nose for EVERYTHING! Even the tip wanted a fiver for a clapped out old lawnmower ... s'pose everything has it value ...
AC x
PS - I didn't want the lawnmower badly enough to buy it ! :D
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The gravel boards were a bit of a bargain tho..went to the local timber merchant!
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I was really lucky and found a place on Anglesey that sells them for 20p/foot and they are not to accurate in the measuring. So, once the man with the digger has been and the beds constructed all I have to do is get rid of the stones(via Palustris's wonderful gizzmo) get a bit more soil and manure in and (fingers crossed) Im away with the planting. ;D
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i have always used tanalised timberfor trellis, pergolas, raised beds and so on - untreated timber will start to rot after first year!
Also, never go to B&Q type places - look in yellow pages for fencing manufacturers and buy gravel boards there - you can usually get much longer lengths too.
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found this on the HDRA website:
Think I will drive some stakes in the ground, slot in some untreated timber and just replace when it rots.
CCA treated timber; often called 'tanalised' timber or 'pressure treated' timber. This treatment uses chemicals such as copper arsenate, which are very poisonous to people - so the treatment must be carried out in carefully controlled conditions - which is why the wood is sold to the public pre-treated.
The method of application of the preservative is such that the chemicals should be very tightly held in the wood once dry - but research carried out in the USA suggests that arsenic may leach from treated wood into the soil, and traces of arsenic have been found on hands of kids who have been playing on equipment made from such timber. This may be particularly true where the wood has not been adequately dried after treatment. Gloves should be worn when handling this kind of timber, and care should be taken not to inhale the dust when sawing or working it in any way. It should not be burned.
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eek. my compost bin is made of old treated decking. Dilemma now...
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I wish pressure treated wood was sold with a health warning!
However, I'm sure if it's old wood, most of the nasties would have leached out by now, and anyway, it's probably no worse than what supermarket food has sprayed on it!
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Ross - I like your theory there. I think I'll stick with that one. I hate the idea of having to throw away all the old decking and all the compost. Much prefer to live in ignorance!
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What I want to know is, why were young goats playing on the equipment.huh?!!
We shall all have to grow our veges well away from our edges, I can't face dismantling my beds!! And I agree with Ross!
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I've handled a lot of tanalised wood in the past and never suffered any ill effects. Often cut it up without protection too. Again no ill effects.
I have such timber in my plottie for raised bed sides, this has been additionaly treated with modern wood stain to improve the appearance and extend the life of the wood. This may help in sealing in any nasties in the wood.
As to life expectancy of such wood it is not all its cracked up to be. I have had some treated and stained trellis panels begin to decay with in 6 or 7 years. All depends on the quality of the wood of course, these were cheap 'off the peg' panels from a garden centre. This of course is better life expectancy than untreated timber.
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so is the general gist that treated wood is not ideal but we've all been using it and no-one has died of arsenic poisoning due to your lettuces yet?
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some enterprising chap should make plastic ones
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Fingle I have seen slot-together plastic ones in gardening catalogues but they are prohibitively expensive!
Ten x
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I have just built a raised bed in my garden out of old bricks -had about 100 going spare which build a nice size bed 4 bricks high - haven't mortered them together, which should be fine as I don't have kids to kick a football at it!
I estimate to make a 6 ' x 3' bed (4 bricks high) you'd need about 120 bricks. You can get the cheapest bricks at 20p each, so about £25. Not too bad considering that you'd pay about £15 at B&Q prices to do this with gravel boards. Just means transporting a lot of bricks! Maybe an old reclamation yard would have them cheaper?
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There HAS to be something else......I will put my thinking hat on
Bricks sound nice tho