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General => The Shed => Topic started by: flossy on March 06, 2009, 18:41:27
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OH is laid up with a '' sprained ankle '' , he has had it before in big toes -- definitely Gout,
as he had medication for it -- long time , care of cups of tea and ' embrecation ' ,
This time , he has insisted that ' this is not GOUT ' -- he didn't ' twist ' it. 'turn it ' or
fall over ! I have just heard him hop skip and jump into the kitchen for his tot
of sun down whisky . now , he has had a triple bypass and a tot or two keeps thing
energised ! -- fact,
Do sympathise, but can you get Gout in an ankle joint ? I think so !!
He won't have it ! :(
floss xxx
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Theoretically the crystals can form in any joint... but they tend to go for the toes as the blood flow is more sluggish there... :-\
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When we go all inclusive my Tone always gets gout in his big toe joint. We put it down to eating a lot more meat and of course the alcohol (but we don't mention that) Tomatoes are supposed to bring it on but I am not an expert.Tone takes endomyacin when he gets it. Don't know if I've spelt it right
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Thanks shirlton, gonna scour the streets for it !
What I thought saddad, but perapse it got there quicker this time ? ! ::)
Those in need , are friends indeed !
floss xxx
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Memory, from when I was a medical secretary, is that gout is a result of a surplus of uric acid in the blood, and it can affect any joint.
Sorry flossy, but he needs to see his GP and get tested and treatment, if only to be 'on the safe side'. ;D ;D
Drag him down there. ;D
valmarg
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Suggest taking him to a nutritional therapist. Dont know where you live, but these places should be able to point you in the right direction
http://www.ion.ac.uk/ Institute of Optimum Nutrition
http://www.bant.org.uk - British Association Nutritional Therapists
Gout is associated with acidity in the body http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gout and nutritional therapy would aim to alkalise the system generally, not just through avoiding alcohol. Traditional Chinese Medicine may also help - a macrobiotic diet would probably be ideal. http://www.atcm.co.uk/
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Valmarg is right. You must get tested for build up of uric acid, which crystalizes in the joints - usually the extremities (toes and fingers) but maybe ankles too, although I've never heard of that.
If you've got gout, as I have, you'll certainly know about it. It's agony. Even a light breeze or the touch of a bedsheet on the affected area can have you crying with pain. If you've got it, you've got it for life. However, there is medication that control it. I take a pill called allopurinol, prescribed by my GP, every day and this keeps it well under control. I can eat and drink what I like but I try to avoid shellfish - especially mussels - and an excess of red meat.
I first discovered I'd got it after running the London Marathon. I thought I'd stubbed my toes running, but it just got worse and worse until I could barely walk. It certainly wasn't because I had been drinking too much port and eating too much venison!
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Lewie, thanks so much, it is a bit of a battle as OH has an answer for everything ! Thank you for your advice
- will look into it , Stuborn he is !
Valma, thank you ... Offered a firemans lift so he could have his ciggy - ''wild child '' !
It's Friday so will have to wait 'till Monday ... don't know if we will both survive the weekend !
Tired,
floss xxx
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Flossy, get him to see a GP, my husband gets it from time to time & he has medication which works well. All the best. ;D
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Thanks rosebud, bribery and corruption usually works to get him to the docs'
floss xxx
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Floss,
I had my first 'attack' this January. Although never before affected, I suspected what it was.
Hobbled to the docs. & it was confirmed. I asked if I would be on lifetime medication & the reply was 'nah, not until after 6 attacks'.
I don't want another but googling diet shows that just about everything affects the potential.
I understand mussels etc. should be minimised but mushrooms/beer/redmeat?
Should I book myself into a Cave for the rest of my life? Not bl**dy likely!
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See my earlier posting. There are lots of myths about gout. 20 years of suffering has caused me to look into this quite thoroughly!
Controlling your diet can certainly help, but if you are prone to acute attacks it really does make sense to see your GP, get a blood test and if appropriate get prescribed for allopurinol. A pill a day and you can eat and drink what you like in moderation. These drugs are remarkably safe.
You need to avoid extremes - e.g. starvation diets, high protein diets or sudden bouts of vigorous exercise.
Purine rich foods that can aggravate gout include game, sweetbreads, kidneys and shellfish, especially when combined with alcohol.
Foods that are supposed to be good for gout sufferers are said to include sour dairy products (yoghurt, cottage cheese, sour cream), honey, cherries, strawberries, sweet potatoes, bananas, brown rice, fresh almonds, baked potatoes, asparagus and sweetcorn. There is evidence that cherries are certainly good for gout sufferers. Tumeric is a strong anti-inflammatory.
There is a clear and useful explanation on the Arthritis Research Campaign website. Here's the link:
http://www.arc.org.uk/arthinfo/patpubs/6015/6015.asp
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I used to get gout in my middle toes but it has stayed away since I have been on Allopurinal.
My son gets it in his knee. He plays a pedal steel guitar in a band and they were due to play live on Radio Solent when he had an attack. There was no way he could play his instrument with his gout as he needed to use his knees. In the end the radio station interviewed him about it and then played their CD.
I am sorry your OH has gout Flossy but agree with Valmarg that he should see his GP who will test his uric acid levels.
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telboy, sorry you have been afflicted too -- apparently very painful,
OH goes pale when ever I pass by his foot stool ! wondering what the doc will say Monday,
he takes five pills a day now so they will have to be compatable if he prescribes him anything.
Thanks hopolong, valuable info there, I think OH can avoid 2 out of 3 of the extremes needed to
be avoided -- he does like his protien , ;) [ honestly, I do feel sorry for him ] :-[
omg, 20 yrs, poor you -- hope you keep painfree now.
Paulines7, hoping your son has had no trouble since -- and you too, thanks so much for your help,
Think it has sunk in now that it's not a sprained ankle ! actualy his foot is quit hot and swollen now
so will see if there's a Saturday clinic anywhere this morning.
floss xxx
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Thanks Floss, & thanks for the info hopalong - all good stuff.
Apparently 1 in 4 males suffer at some time.
Us poor b***ers can't win.
8)
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Thanks Floss, & thanks for the info hopalong - all good stuff.
Apparently 1 in 4 males suffer at some time.
Us poor b***ers can't win.
8)
Women don't seem to suffer anything like as often. Not fair! ;)
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Women don't seem to suffer anything like as often. Not fair! ;)
True! BUT....we wimmen bear the child youz men 'give' us (quote from my mother here ::)) and tho you've gotta pain in the toe, whatever, which can be ameliorated by taking a pill, we've gotta pain in the neck, potentially, forever ;D And you know what? We keep on smilin' 8)
Seriously, thank so much for the concise info you've posted 8) 8) 8)
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Women don't seem to suffer anything like as often. Not fair! ;)
True! BUT....we wimmen bear the child youz men 'give' us (quote from my mother here ::)) and tho you've gotta pain in the toe, whatever, which can be ameliorated by taking a pill, we've gotta pain in the neck, potentially, forever ;D And you know what? We keep on smilin' 8)
Seriously, thank so much for the concise info you've posted 8) 8) 8)
::) ;D ;D ;D
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I suffered from gout, mainly in the big toe, knee and ankle for ten years. Terribly painful and made me lose time off work. Naturally I then took medicaments (but not constantly because of the undoubted but unknown effects) and assumed everything was OK. However the day came when I realized that the sensible thing would be to find a cure and so I did a lot of investigating.
Here's my tips: only one beer per day; keep alcohol intake down; avoid bought fruit juices (fructose); only one coffee per day; no pork; little meat; no smoked ham; no goose,duck, or crab; avoid all smoked foodstuffs; no tripe; no chicken skin; no fish skin; only a half portion of beans (without juice) and peas; no grapefruit; no concentrated meat sauces; no liver; no lentils; no bouillons; no mushrooms; an apple a day; plenty of berries; plenty of greens and potatoes; no aspirin; lose weight; don't go on a strict diet.
Don't drink or eat anything between say 8pm and 8 am - allow the body time to cleanse itself. After breakfast don't eat anything or drink anything except water until lunch time.
It works - a further ten years have gone and I've been free of gout.
I love tomatoes, have at least 25 plants in the garden in summer and have never noticed that they do me any harm.
By the way, a cold can lead to an attack if the cold reduces the efficiency of the kidneys.
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Hi Busby, thanks so much for all your help -- have to admire your self discipline, I take
my hat off to you. :)
Did you really miss some of the foods and did it take long to adjust to a new your way of life ?
I wouldn't miss some a lot of what you have listed, but liver and mushrooms oooh dear :(
Glad that you are gout free and hope it stays that way,
floss xxx
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gout also known as the rich mans decease,
so that's me gout free for life ;D ;D ;D
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Awe no garden44, that was in those good old Victorian days, when the wealthy
enjoyed port ! Kidding aside , as in those times it was usual for the poorer folk to eat
oysters and drink lots of beer rather than the local water, as a normal daily diet --
Mind you , would rather have got gout than cholera , :P
That's a very interesting thought !
floss xxx
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flossy, if your OH wants to 'play the martyr' well fair enough. Gout will not go away without treatment. He has to go to his GP and get treatment.
valmarg
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Well, valmarg, if you read my post you'll see that gout will go away without treatment. It's caused by eating too much stuff that the body cannot cope with.
flossy, there is such a choice of non-factory, not-packeted foods (corn flakes for instance cause an increase in uric acidity, but corn on the cob doesn't)) that having a bit of 'discipline' is no problem. And eating what you enjoy is no problem if you don't mix everything up in not-needed quantities.
During my searches for an answer to my gout problem I saw the following documentary - it was about preparing Christmas Dinner: Firstly there is the champagne to greet Christmas and friends, to accompany the champies there are crisps, salmon sandwiches and cheese bits. Then the housewife goes into the kitchen and starts the dinner. The others move over to Chardonnay and nibbles. There is a starter - salad maybe, with oil, cream and vinegar, maybe nuts, oranges and egg slices. Then there is a soup, oxtail maybe. (the worst soup for gout). Then there is a chubby turkey, (raised on factory-produced feed) with roast potatoes (done in fat), brussels, onions and a thick rich gravy. This is accompanied by a few glasses of rich red wine. Then the sweet follows - say Black Forest gateau with plenty of cream, jam and cherries. Then comes a fine cognac with coffee, sugar and cream, more nibbles and the finishing off of the wine.
OK?
Now, just imagine this all in one big bowl, the bowl is standing on the table and everyone can tuck in...
That's where gout comes from.
Now, if you only have half of the above for your Christmas dinner the chance is that you won't get an attack of gout - and you won't be missing very much.
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Sorry Busby I didn't mean to doubt you, but if flossy's OH is in so much pain, I was recommending he goes to his GP for treatment to alleviate his agony short term, and then take your advice re dietary/lifestyle changes.
That said, your Christmas dinner :-\. Don't do champagne, crisps, salmon sandwiches and cheese bits. No soup, oxtail or otherwise. Turkey is organic, with giblets to make stock. Don't do cornflakes, only eat home grown corn cobs (Swift).
valmarg
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I do admire your discipline Busby. Think I will send your list of the NO NO foods to my Brother in law who is a Gout sufferer. He says his is triggered off with Pork meat, especially bacon. However, he loves his booze so doubt he will take any notice. I hope you stay Gout free from now on.
:) :)
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I'm sorry, but it is just plain wrong to suggest that gout is "caused by eating too much stuff that the body cannot cope with" and will go away if you change your diet. It is certainly true that there are certain foods - those with high purine content - that should be avoided if you are a gout sufferer, but you won't get rid of the condition just by doing that. Speaking as a fit and active person who watches their diet but has suffered from gout for years, this mythology infuriates me!
There was a good article by Martin Kettle in The Guardian a while ago, on some of the myths about gout. Here's a link:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/dec/22/comment.health
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Very good article
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Hopalong, I totally understand your frustration with the 'change your diet and you'll solve the problem' attitude that people can have. (Though evidently, for some lucky people, it can work.)
But I wanted to comment relating to earlier posts about avoiding trigger foods. If you feel a benefit, then it soon becomes much easier than you would have ever have imagined, to avoid the foods concerned, because the last thing you want is to suffer the ill-effects. In my case, I'm very glad to say that I don't have gout - it sounds absolutely dreadful. I am wheat-intolerant, so have been wheat-free for over ten years. In spite of the fact it's such a staple food, and there are whole aisles in the supermarket I have to completely ignore - it's not hard, with practice. An occasional accidental dose reminds me enough, that I don't succumb to pizza pangs... :D
I really feel for people getting the 'gout? how hilarious!' reaction. I get the 'food intolerance? oh yes, that's really fashionable these days/ never existed in the old days...' response, which drives me equally barmy.
I reckon the name 'gout' is part of the problem, as it's such an old-fashioned word. Why doesn't it get renamed as 'hyperuricemia'? It would save gout-sufferers from having to punch the next person who mentions port... :D
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Having become very lactose intolerant, from nowhere, there are whole aisles to ignore as you say Helen... and the comments of others can be more of a pain than the condition some times... hope you are able to manage the gout successfully..... :-\
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valmarg,
A small sorry from you - to me and OH too wouldn't come amiss, :(
Don't think that I mentioned that anyone was a ''martyr '' !
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He's not the Messiah either --- he's a very naughty boy ! ;D ;D ;D
floss x
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There are those of us in this world who benefit by their experience(s). I am one of them. By recording what I ate and drank, by investigating into the known and sometimes vaguely guessed causes of gout I changed my intake of food and drink, in sort and quantity, and no longer have to suffer the torments of this painful condition.
Most of the foods we eat today, unless we are lucky enough to have an allotment or garden, are fresh from the factory, and whether containing purines or not causes the body's alkali/acid balance to be disturbed. Stuff with purines simply speeds up the gout-forming process. Too little exercise doesn't help, that's why I walk at least for one hour per day. Diuretics used to control high blood pressure can lead to gout, these medicines cause high levels of water to leave the body thus thickening the uric acid concentration. One specialist that I visited was of the opinion that my gout attacks were due to scarlet fever that I had as a boy. (Before the days of penicillin).
Eating too much high-protein food is a trigger. Too much beer is a guarantee that I'll get an attack - so I limit myself to one beer per day but still drink wine at lunchtime and have an occasional whisky.
According to doctors there is no set pattern for the onset of gout. However due to my recording of food and drink intake I saw that my own gout attacks occured roughly or even nearly 24 hours after I had eaten or drunk something 'silly'. This allowed me to pinpoint dangers and today I simply avoid them, and as I said, with success.
One last thing. In his book 'The Gout Relief Handbook' Chet Cunningham says,' The average man of fifty who gets gout will probably have attacks one evry four or five years for the rest of his life - if he doesn't make some change in his eating and drinking habits.
I was having disabling attacks almost every month, and because I changed my food/drink intake I've been free of gout for ten years, much to the surprise of my doctor. However I do occasionally get an attack when I have a bad cold - which is seldom.
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Thanks Busby,
A great help. We are now investigating OH ' s medication that he has after a
tripple heart bypass, and after Googling '' heart medication and gout '' we have many
instances where blood pressure medicines have been linked with onset of gout.
After the excellant posts regarding diet, we are of course making a start on looking
at what the food and drink intake is and of course how much and how often.
We are devout followers of fresh and healthy foods, and on the whole don't often
have 'red ' meat.
Many thanks again for everones helpful advice and invaluable information,
floss and OH, :-*
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Brief update,
Yeah, docs today and OH now has a prescription for Allopurinol to be taken daily,
his blood pressure pills pose no threat, Colchicine -- an inflamatory in case it reoccures,
blood tests for Uric acid and a check on his kidneys ..... result ! :D
Many thanks again,
floss xxx
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valmarg,
A small sorry from you - to me and OH too wouldn't come amiss, :(
Don't think that I mentioned that anyone was a ''martyr '' !
An enormous sorry flossy if I gave offence. I used a cliche. My remark was meant as a joke. Most men are dreadfully lax at going to the doctors when they NEED treatment. Your OH seemed to fall into this category. All I was trying to say was that he needed to see his GP, and if he didn't............well. Fortunately from what you say he has been to his GP, and is now on treatment.
valmarg
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Glad it worked out well for your OH, flossy.
On the subject of giving offence, I didn't mean one of my earlier postings to imply that controlling diet and avoiding gout-inducing foods is unimportant, only that it is certainly not a "cure" for acute sufferers who have got it for life.
There is a really superb social, cultural and medical history of gout by Roy Porter and G.S. Rousseau - well worth a read if you like history.