Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: plainleaf2 on October 30, 2009, 15:31:06
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1. haphazard
2. standard row
3. wide row
4. french intensive
5. square foot
6. Biodynamic (John Jeavons)
7 multidimensional polycroping
8 different spacing method per veg (if so post which one for each veg)
9 don't know yet.
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I'll be using 10. none of your business!
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and I think I'll be using Flighty's method... ::)
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10 or 11 and a bit not made up my mind yet ???
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I would say a mixture of 4,5,6, 7 and 8. Only flowers get to be haphazard. The aesthetics of the plot are important to me too . I don't like rows on a purely aesthetic basis. I like mixtures. Oh and for square foot read square metre.
It is not haphazard in the slightest and I have already planned exactly what is going where (including intercropping, catch cropping and companion planting.) 8)
Don't it just make ya sick? ;D ;D ;D
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Ill be using the secret barriedalenick method.. :-X
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depends how we feel, some things at 6, some at 18 :)
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10 - Crop circles ;) :D ;)
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1. haphazard....never
2. standard row .....What do you mean by 'standard'?
3. wide row..... I only sow peas in this manner.
4. french intensive.....The Anglo Scottish way
5. square foot.....I only use my foot for measuring purposes its a foot long!
6. Biodynamic (John Jeavons)...???????? What is this?
7 multidimensional polycroping.....??????? What is this?
8 different spacing method per veg (if so post which one for each veg)..... Depend what I am growing but it is basically what it says on the packet.
9 don't know yet.............Answered in 8
BTW what has motivated such a question ???
It seem pretty elementary to me!!
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Mums the word. :-X ;D ;D ;D
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Nice at the start then wherever it fits
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7 multidimensional polycroping.....??????? What is this?
Come on Tee-Gee
http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=%22multidimensional+polycropping%22
Check the massive list of hits.. oh wait! ::)
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I plan it on paper, then carefully hammer in stakes, tie strings, plant the row.
Then say, heck, I can probably squeeze in another row there.
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I did not know that biodynamic was a spacing method, thought it was more about planting by the moon and burying horns containing various things around the plot. I have a sympathy with the moon, but burying horns is going a bit too far for me.
I use the shoe horn method. I do not like seeing bare soil, so every space is covered in plants.
I can probably squeeze in another row there
If not two. ;D And I can get a quick crop of lettuce etc as well.
I must say that I generally treat each type differently.
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Biodynamic is very similar to intensive French (or whatever). I think its basis was in the whole Steiner ethos which you either like or not. Anyway spacing is certainly part of it since it is about getting maximal crop from minimal space and has been very successful in so doing.
And squeezing in the extra rows is of course a part of polycropping even if not always the multidimensional part.
Within whatever method you still need to give individual plants adequate space but how much space that is can vary depending on your approach to growing.
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Dr..
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LOOKS LIKE teachable moment to me.
I should have explained the various spacing methods and how they differ before asking which you plan on using.
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Plant and hope as usual.
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Did a quick google on some of the above and the only mention of multidimensional polycropping was the above posts. Presume this is a posh name for a three sisters bed.
LOOKS LIKE teachable moment to me.
I should have explained the various spacing methods and how they differ before asking which you plan on using.
I am sure that those who are interested will do a quick google find out about them. Suggest you set up a blog somewhere. Perhaps you could put this in your book.
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From what I've seen of other peoples number 6 gardens, 1 and 6 are the same! ;) :)
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I like to have two rows that fit into a stride of about a yard. This means the crop will fit under a peice of debris netting. I like to line up the rows, instead of staggering the plants so I can hoe from the sides.
Most crops will fit into this system. I had an idea last year of growing sweet corn in clumps, (like grass grows), but the mice ate two packets of planted seed so I never got to try that.
Spuds are planted a good stride apart `cus I like to earth up a lot.
Col
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I'm not familiar with all of those, but I plant in flat beds. If I'm planting six inches apart, say, then the rows are also six inches apart, with the plants alternating.
That covers most things, but peas and beans go up wigwams, and occasionally I have something which goes in a row down the middle of a bed because of the amount of space it needs.
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1 and six are not same. 3 and 6 are similar but not really.
6. plants in triangles.
6. can read about in John Jeavsons book"How to Grow More Vegetables:"
3. is basic a wide row where seeds are sprinkled.
7.multidimensional poly-cropping is basically either square foot or triangle spaced plants.
But with advanced companion planting,succession planting integrated but also includes a lot more. It also contains predefine planting layouts. This will be totally revealed in my book.
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Who cares?. I sow as per what the packet says
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I care.
As a fairly new grower it's something I really haven't worked out yet, mainly because there are way too many conflicting theories and methods.
If I do it as the packet it seems to waste a lot of growing space, but if I jam them together I seem to get more diseases, especially mould on brassicas, mildew on me spinach, alongside more pests which I then can't get access to at all easily.
But other plots seem to get away with very tight spacing for the same crops. I'm guessing they are either using F1s or their earth has been built up over the years and will sustain it better than mine? Would that be it?
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I think I must have learned my gardening on another planet.
I am not at all methodical about rows, distances etc. I plant according to what a particular plant needs.
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Over feeding can make brassicas (in particular) prone to disease, earlypea, especially at this time of year.... :-\
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Ohhhhh too many complications! :'(
Duke
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Years ago I broke my fork. So I made it into a dibber. My spacing is now defined by the length of the dibber, the width of the dibber handle and that old english measure arfadibber. Most times it works but on that rare occasion it doesn't the boot comes into play in single mode or doubled up sometimes. Arfaboot don't work but sideways on could I suppose but that is equal to a dibber anabit so I don't bother with that one.
One allotment I had was just about big enough to feed us but small enough to handle so if there was a space it got used on something that was going to be tasty and essential. I never grew for size as I prefer taste to be the reason it was planted. So smaller yields suited us.
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Over feeding can make brassicas (in particular) prone to disease, earlypea, especially at this time of year.... :-\
Thanks Saddad. I don't tend to feed at all actually (could it be that?), just peas or manure in the autumn , then mulch with some home compost/manure mix once. Only fed one bed with pigeon stuff this year, where keeping some plants at the edge for seed seemed to have drained it of all nutrition.
(sorry, bit off-topic)
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Re-reading it Earlypea, and if you have had the dry September we've had, I would suggest dry at the roots, that would encourage mildew on the spinach and whitefly on the brassicas which would create conditions for the mould to flourish... I'd dig in more muck for these crops to improve the moisture holding of the soil, which it sounds like your neighbours have been doing over the years.. :-\
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Re-reading it Earlypea, and if you have had the dry September we've had, I would suggest dry at the roots, that would encourage mildew on the spinach and whitefly on the brassicas which would create conditions for the mould to flourish... I'd dig in more muck for these crops to improve the moisture holding of the soil, which it sounds like your neighbours have been doing over the years.. :-\
Cheers. I had actually come to similar conclusions myself, but it's nice to be backed up by a more experienced gardener :)
I got caught up in the 'no-dig' idea last year and frankly not for my dry crumbly type of earth at all. This Autumn I've prepared by digging manure in - hopefully it will pay off.
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LOL @ ACE ;D
The arfadibber comes in very handy.
Normally start off with following seed pack instructions,as the space gets filled up I follow the rule called bungitinthisbit ..................Then the rule comes in ....what was I possably thinking?there is more than enough room .
Love it............ :)
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Do I come across as that old then.... :-[
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Not from where I'm standing boyo, but everything is relative. ;D ;D ;D Anyway experience, like wisdom, is not always the preserve of the old.
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Do I come across as that old then.... :-[
No - most people have been growing vegetables longer than me. You could be any age. Experienced gardener not the same as old gardener ;)
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My staples are the width of four fingers, thumbtip to spread forefinger tip, thumbtip to spread little fingertip, boot, and cubit.
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now back to spacing methods
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I tend to use the Mornington Cresent method with reverse shafting.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I tend to use the Mornington Cresent method with reverse shafting.
;D ;D ;D
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Good thread for a laugh this morning1 ;D
Earlypea, I vary the spacings of my brassicas and other plants depending on how I intend to crop them. For example, I might space half a bed of cauliflowers a hands breadth apart and others 2' apart intending to eat every other one of the closer spaced ones at a 'mini cauli' stage and leave the others to grow on to maturity. This way I can get more crops over a longer period in the same space. It also works for leeks,onions and many other veg.
On the feeding front, good soil prep as Saddad describes will go a long way, but I am a fan of liquid seaweed in either sprays or watering in, from when plants are in modules (I sow very little direct now) and particularly at planting out. It seems to give them greater disease resistance, although the whitefly are having a field day on my brassicas in this mild weather at the moment, they don't seem to be affecting growth much. ;D
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I f I get my spacing wrong and the plants are too far apart or too close I tell them to move and if they don't its off with their heads.
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Interesting Deb - thanks.
I've no pests at the moment. Whitefly devoured by ladybirds a long time ago and no return (fingers crossed), autumn's mealy aphids organically sprayed copiously twice and miraculously gone too.
I did get the SM3 in spring and had very good intentions but it's really difficult to find a time when the sun isn't shining on my brassicas to spray them.
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Great we're finally getting the fun back into the veggie plot. Keep using the pellets slug_killer.
I'm also not a fan of no dig. I like to get the frost into the soil, so rough it up a bit and then put on a green manure or a catch crop of lettuce or winter green stuff.
White fly not too bad apart fromredbor but a couple of plots away they are really abundant. Can't understand what the difference is. Been down with the Fairy's.
I'm interested in the handwidth for caulis. Never managed a good one so am trying a good boot ana arf. (Great boots Lidl)
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Deb P why not just grow small head varieties where you want mini cauliflowers Or is that just to simple.
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I f I get my spacing wrong and the plants are too far apart or too close I tell them to move and if they don't its off with their heads.
Yeah I've tried that, they take no notice I only grow 'norty' veg it seems... ;D
Deb P why not just grow small head varieties where you want mini cauliflowers Or is that just to simple.
;D ;D ;D Not too simple, just not the point! ::)
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we do the same as you, deb..plant stuff close and eat every other one, onions, parsnips, carrots, lettuce etc, in fact we do small pinches of carrot seed and silverskin onions at 9" spacings so we get small bunches ;D
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we do the same as you, deb..plant stuff close and eat every other one, onions, parsnips, carrots, lettuce etc, in fact we do small pinches of carrot seed and silverskin onions at 9" spacings so we get small bunches ;D
Manicscousers that is a brilliant idea !!
Duke
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thank you, duke, don't think it's original ;D
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I have taken to sprinkling carrots thinly over a six inch wide strip and then eating anything that gets big enough. Fed them much more this year. Gave them a top dressing of BFB between the rows. Had a very good crop. They seem to crop quite well very close. No really big ones, but I don't like those anyway.
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My own, suited to my allotment, it's soil, it's aspect, and what I want to grow. ;)
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tonybloke so basically your not willing to share with the group.
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"Know and Grow Vegetables", Salter, Bleasdale and others from the National Vegetable Research Station.
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tonybloke so basically your not willing to share with the group.
All these topics you have posted have been covered....you just need to do a search.....for your research
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My own, suited to my allotment, it's soil, it's aspect, and what I want to grow. ;)
tonybloke so basically your not willing to share with the group.
Well I thought Tonybloke's answer was one of the best given so far as his spacing methods will be based on the specific requirements of the plants he will be growing & the environment they will be growing in which should give much better results than attempting to force the same plants to grow in less favourable conditions simply because you want to use a particular method of cultivation.
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Well I thought Tonybloke's answer was one of the best given so far as his spacing methods will be based on the specific requirements of the plants he will be growing & the environment they will be growing in which should give much better results than attempting to force the same plants to grow in less favourable conditions simply because you want to use a particular method of cultivation.
Doesn't that kind of beg the question as to why we read gardening books and magazines, watch TV gardening programmes and listen to the radio as well as posting on gardening forums? All of these are not based on our own plot or area but they are great sources of learning about how and what to grow. Sure we may tweak the information in line with our own local knowledge but the fundamentals are the same and therefore sharing the answers is useful.
All these topics you have posted have been covered....you just need to do a search.....for your research
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Very true Star, however a few points.
Firstly it seems that it's OK for some folk to post topics about things that have already been covered but not others. That doesn't seem either fair or logical to me.
Secondly have you tried searching for things? The last time I tried I had 3 or 4 attempts at giving the search engine the right cue and got over 20 pages of links for each one. I'm afraid I gave up and just asked the question again.
Also, if you have a browse or, indeed, if you have been on the forum for a while (I only joined in December 2005) you will soon realise that the same questions do come up again and again (even the same jokes come up again and again) as new people, some of whom are new gardeners, join the forum. Should we tell them to b****er off and find out for themselves? "We answered that one 3 years ago".
Finally, as already suggested by the world and his wife, if the fantastic Mr Fox gets on your t**ts, ignore his threads and his posts rather than winding up all the unpleasantness again and again and again........
Pretty please!! :-* :-*
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grawrc they ones causing the trouble not me. they keep want to attack and attack me but they mostly can't stay on topics. But I guess this is why board is dying; because they can not let past rest and act I polite pleasant manner.
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grawrc they ones causing the trouble not me. they keep want to attack and attack me but they mostly can't stay on topics. But I guess this is why board is dying; because they can not let past rest and act I polite pleasant manner.
Can we go back to the subject Plainleaf2 please, no agro thankyou. ::)
I would love to plant out with recommended spacings but I am short of space so I squeeze it in where I can. Manics that's such a sensible idea. Going to do that. ;D
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worked brilliantly, maggie..don't know who it came from ;D
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(http://img.techpowerup.org/090421/Do-not-feed-the-troll.png)