Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: grannyjanny on May 29, 2010, 08:32:36
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I thought I would give J A Bowers MP compost another chance. Big mistake. It was lumpy & the lumps wouldn't crumble between the fingers, stones, large twigs & what appeared to be pieces of felt. It would take forever to sieve for seed sowing. I emailed & they asked for a sample & batch code which was sent off to them.
They accept it was to lumpy & there were problems with some bags from that batch. It was caused by the compost being mixed in damp weather.
This is the second year I have been in touch with them regarding the poor quality of their compost. It used to be such good stuff. I wonder what has gone wrong?
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Sad - they used to be the leaders.
I'm finding Westland's very good this year.
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I bought some last month & was very disappointed - it's not composted! I'm using it around the roots of my squash, courgettes etc, as it will rot down & they shouldn't mind too much... I then bought some B&Q own brand stuff which is lovely.
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My problems with JAB composts were the subject of a long thread last year, and I am not tempted to use their products again after that experience! This year B&Q mulitipurpose with added JI has my vote.
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I agree with the above comments. I bought some JB compost last year. Never again. I use Wicks 4 bags for £12, or B & Q.
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I too use B&Q Multi Purpose compost for everything - no problems at all.
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I bought some Westland West+ multi-purpose compost (6 bags of the stuff) at the start of the season and it has been terrible - huge chips of wood not even started to compost. It is like they have bulked their decent compost with 30% wood chippings.
Anyone else found this?
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The weather is what went wrong
It depends when and where you harvest peat as to what its like. If the winter is wet, and last winter was, the peat comes off sodden, and that makes it hard to grade and mix. Different companies harvest at different times, and from different sites, so it can be a bit hit and miss getting the peat just right.
Normally, the top 6 inches is discards, because its too young an uncomposted. The next three feet down is usable, tending to get finer as you go down, ie the lumps are in the top. At the bottom you get very dark black peat but it can have lots of stones in. Obviously if the layer is thin you get lumps and stones and less of the good stuff in the middle.
Bark is added usually not to add bulk but to open the mix up if its too dense or wet.
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i bought 2bags and it is the biggest load of rubbish i have had in 50yrs. Just full of stones and wood, like to no what council they get it from. you cant put this rubbish down to the weather. Its not use for purpose.
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It's frustrating that what can be good compost one year can be rubbish the next, but B&Q seems to be fairly consistent. Is it the peat-free stuff or not?
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I bought some last month & was very disappointed - it's not composted! I'm using it around the roots of my squash, courgettes etc, as it will rot down & they shouldn't mind too much... I then bought some B&Q own brand stuff which is lovely.
Last year I had problems with Westlands seed growing mix only about 25% of my french beans came up it was very annoying. I wrote to them and they sent me a sample bag to return but unfortunately i had used all the compost by then.
However this years stuff looks ok so far....hard to get anything else as the two nearest garden centres both sell it.
The West + stuff I have is not too bad it does have some small bits of bark and white fibres but nothing like the Levingtons one I had last year which was just bark chip. not as nice as last years westland basket and container compost. Both of those i always mix with JI2 so it's not so spongy.
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Where's the quality control? Such big companies shouldn't be sending out bags of compost that are not fit for purpose but I guess it is all about profit and they would rather meet demand with sub-standard goods than take a loss. But that seems to me to be a very myopic and short-term attitude. Clearly people here won't buy JAB again and I won't touch the West+ rubbish for a long time. Bought some B&Q stuff today that is brilliant, a king by comparison.
A compost that claims to be 'suitable for seeds' should BE suitable for seeds, not barely fit to use as a mulch.
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If the compost is not fit for purpose it can be returned & you can get a refund or replacement. That is what the sale of goods act is for.
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/know-your-rights/SGAknowyourrights/
http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/after_you_buy/making-complaint/
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If the compost is not fit for purpose it can be returned & you can get a refund or replacement. That is what the sale of goods act is for.
I know mate, but 2 bags for £10 (or something along those lines), lugged down to the allotment then opened. For the effort, I figured I could use them for something rather than waste the time & my back! I normally make a hole in a bag before buying, to check the quality. Must've been daydreaming that day!
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I'm disabled and getting to and from a garden centre needs organising and the good will of others to help with transport and carrying. I've written to the manufacturer but doubt that will get anywhere as I have had to use what I had, as best I could, with loads of sieving. Things needed potting on. What do you do when you have no transport or easy way to return the product and yet have to use SOMETHING for your plants? Rock and hard place. My point is that the product should never have made it onto the market.
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My point is that the product should never have made it onto the market.
I completely agree!
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Where's the quality control? Such big companies shouldn't be sending out bags of compost that are not fit for purpose but I guess it is all about profit and they would rather meet demand with sub-standard goods than take a loss. But that seems to me to be a very myopic and short-term attitude. Clearly people here won't buy JAB again and I won't touch the West+ rubbish for a long time. Bought some B&Q stuff today that is brilliant, a king by comparison.
A compost that claims to be 'suitable for seeds' should BE suitable for seeds, not barely fit to use as a mulch.
Right, but thats the art of compost mixing. The compost consistency can change as your harvesting it, and you need seriously tight control to keep the output the same. It also depends on exactly what else your mixing in with it - green waste is horrendous stuff, its so variable and you get all sorts of crap in it thats hard to screen out.
The squeeze is that on one side you have the consumer who wants a good compost cheap, and the government who wants you to stop using peat.
However, ive said this before and ill say ity again, all retail compost is rubbish compared to professional growing media. You do not get these problems with professional composts. This is because retail composts are made with the number one aim of making it as cheap as possible whilst being acceptable to the consumer, whereas professional composts are made to achieve consistency and performance and price is secondary. Thus retail composts are 3x70L for £10 and professional potting composts are £6 an 80L bag - you get what you pay for.
If you want quality, go to a Horticultural Distributor and buy professional media on cash sale, if you want cheap, go to B&Q. But dont expect to get the same compost, or the same results.
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This seems to be a recent thing so are you saying this is something else to blame the government for? In years gone by I & many others didn't have a problem with JAB in fact I wouldn't buy anything other than JAB. After the problems last year Manics put me onto Clover Mother Earth compost & it was beautiful stuff I had a half bag left & had to use it as the JAB wasn't fit for purpose & every seed germinated. So much for not using old compost.
I kept the receipt & shall be taking it back along with the letter that was sent with the explanation.
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LY
You are talking as much rubbish as in a bag of JA BOWERS, if you go to Wickes 4x70 lt bags for £12 this is pure gold no sticks no bricks, last year I used Asda 4x75 lt for £12 another very good quality compost, now if these people who are not a compost/growing medium making company can source/sell good stuff why not JA BOWERS.
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I use Bowers with added John Innes....3 for a tenner from my local garden centre..never had a problem :)
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Perhaps yours is from a different batch Fork. Glad you found it to be ok.
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I'm quite happy to accept that quality varies, and price is a factor, but I don't think it's acceptable when they can't be bothered to sieve the d**n stuff!
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LY
You are talking as much rubbish as in a bag of JA BOWERS, if you go to Wickes 4x70 lt bags for £12 this is pure gold no sticks no bricks, last year I used Asda 4x75 lt for £12 another very good quality compost, now if these people who are not a compost/growing medium making company can source/sell good stuff why not JA BOWERS.
lincsyokel2 is "Present Administrator for Professional Sales Division at large horticultural manufacturers " so maybe there is an agenda there - I don't know!
He also rates himself 10 out of 10 at project management so is absolutely faultless.
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Another vote here for the B+Q stuff this year. Only failures I've had with seeds were some beans I knew to be old, and even then some of them made it. All the fresher stock has hatched nicely, and if I grow the few beans from the old stock carefully I'll get enough to use as seed next year. Did have a universal failure with three different sorts of soybean, which will be my husbandry.... on the other hand everything else looks great, I've got the best looking cabbages I've ever grown, the Hispi look like they're a picture on a seed packet... I module sow nearly everything so I use about 300 litres of compost for that, this year the B+Q has been great and they'vew got a repeat customer here until it changes....
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Can I ask again, are any of you using B&Q peat-free, or is it just the general multi-purpose?
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Can I ask again, are any of you using B&Q peat-free, or is it just the general multi-purpose?
Just the multipurpose here (the one that mentions on it that it got Silver in the Which? test)... 3 for a tenner type stuff.
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Same here - I know I should be using peat free. I will place myself on the naughty step. Its just that this B&Q stuff is so nice compared to the rubbish I was using. Call it comfort buying!
I AM making my own compost though this year and planning to also get a wormery, so I'm less reliant on shop-bought stuff.
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The wickes compost this year is been really good stuff...it used to be lumpy but now they have sorted it out and it is good value for the money...
As for professional composts...hmm...not always 'you get what you pay for'...
they use the same peat/alternatives anyway....they just screen they stuff more thoroughly..or should do.... and apply a bit more add on stuff ..nurients, wetting agents, sand, vermiculate..etc...or should do.....
I have use pro-stuff in past for work and for lottie...unless you grow really a specialized stuff ...I don't see no benefit what so ever to spend the amount of money for just a bit of extra feed...let's face it, I can just mix handfull of BFB in compost myself and save pounds...most of the time I make my own mixes anyway... ::) So now I buy good stuff in value ranges...but if they get greedy or lazy with they supply....I'll just shame them and change supply...
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E MAIL SENT TO ME BY LINCSYOKEL
Actually im not "talking rubbish", i work for Sinclair Horticulture who make JAB products. I know more about composts and ferts than you'll ever be able to learn.
AN EXPERT -EX IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN - AND A SPURT IS A DRIP UNDER PRESSURE
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LY
You are talking as much rubbish as in a bag of JA BOWERS, if you go to Wickes 4x70 lt bags for £12 this is pure gold no sticks no bricks, last year I used Asda 4x75 lt for £12 another very good quality compost, now if these people who are not a compost/growing medium making company can source/sell good stuff why not JA BOWERS.
Ive explained why in two previous posts, try reading them, i have no need to repeat the posts. Just because the answer isnt to your liking, theres no need to take the offensive, agressive attitude you have taken. Civility costs nothing, but in your case i can see its wasted.
Btw, when you published the above PM, you neglected to mention you started you message with 'Dear Knobhead' . Very nice, very charming and civilised.
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LY
You are talking as much rubbish as in a bag of JA BOWERS, if you go to Wickes 4x70 lt bags for £12 this is pure gold no sticks no bricks, last year I used Asda 4x75 lt for £12 another very good quality compost, now if these people who are not a compost/growing medium making company can source/sell good stuff why not JA BOWERS.
u
Ive explained why in two previous posts, try reading them, i have no need to repeat the posts. Just because the answer isnt to your liking, theres no need to take the offensive, agressive attitude you have taken. Civility costs nothing, but in your case i can see its wasted.
Btw, when you published the above PM, you neglected to mention you started you message with 'Dear Knobhead' . Very nice, very charming and civilised.
Being a Lincolnian (although I do keep the fact well hidden) I always by JAB and especially New Horizon peat free and I can honestly say I have never had a problem with it. The last lot I bought hardly had any woody stuff in it and the plants are thriving - although they do get worm wee as well. I have always found people at Sinclairs to be an absolute pleasure to do business with as well.
PS - i.e. none I have come across are knobheads. ;D
PPS - I did wonder which horticultural company you worked for thus my agenda post. Knowing it is Sinclairs has confuddled me. :-\
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LY
You are talking as much rubbish as in a bag of JA BOWERS, if you go to Wickes 4x70 lt bags for £12 this is pure gold no sticks no bricks, last year I used Asda 4x75 lt for £12 another very good quality compost, now if these people who are not a compost/growing medium making company can source/sell good stuff why not JA BOWERS.
u
Ive explained why in two previous posts, try reading them, i have no need to repeat the posts. Just because the answer isnt to your liking, theres no need to take the offensive, agressive attitude you have taken. Civility costs nothing, but in your case i can see its wasted.
Btw, when you published the above PM, you neglected to mention you started you message with 'Dear Knobhead' . Very nice, very charming and civilised.
Being a Lincolnian (although I do keep the fact well hidden) I always by JAB and especially New Horizon peat free and I can honestly say I have never had a problem with it. The last lot I bought hardly had any woody stuff in it and the plants are thriving - although they do get worm wee as well. I have always found people at Sinclairs to be an absolute pleasure to do business with as well.
PS - i.e. none I have come across are knobheads. ;D
PPS - I did wonder which horticultural company you worked for thus my agenda post. Knowing it is Sinclairs has confuddled me. :-\
Its always been netiquette not to public print PM's, thats the point of a Personal Message , so i wont, but his PM to me was offensive and threatening. All i did was explain the position about possibly why there so much variation in composts, and I most certainly am not talking rubbish. My efforts at offering an insight did not deserve such an obnoxious, agressive, offensive and threatening response. I have reported his PM and post to the mods. I have also received further PM as part of his threats.
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I don't have a problem with potting compost - I simply make my own out of leaf mould, sharp sand and sieved compost from the compost heap. Costs me pennies (sharp sand) per sack. Product far better than shop bought and quality control standards are under my own personal Control
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lincsyokel2.....don't let what happened to upset you..I'm truly interested your opinion and input..it is not often that we get somebody who work for the industry to talk from their point of view...but as you might have noticed...it's not always easy....I'm sure you are not personally there with bucket and spade mixing the stuff...it only takes one who is not interested doing their job properly and things go wrong..and those other end of phone gets the blame..
It is same in so many other jobs..... ::)
I haven't seen anything wrong with your posts... ???..for to get angry that way.. ??? ::)
...everybody!...deeepp breath..... ;D ;D ;)
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YHS is my favourite compost, tried most of the others over the years. I bought some John Innes from Homebase this year and had terrible problems with damping off.
Ninny
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Powerspade - I don't have leaf mould, but I have plenty of well rotted compost. What ratio of compost to sand do you use and would the fact that I do not have leaf mould be a problem?
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Well, here's my twopenn'th
My local GC is selling 4x60 bags of JAB multipurpose for £12 and it has been fine - as always. True when I did get picky and do a bit of seiving for seed sowing, quite a few solid lumps came out, so they are in the compost bin for more cooking.
I also bought a split bag of JAB seed compost for £1.99 and fab no lumps, twigs or anything, so perhaps the clue is in the produce title?
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SMP1704. Sinclairs asked for a sample of the MPC & said it was "Far to LUMPY to be satisfactory" in the letter they sent me. It would have taken hours to sieve enough for a few seeds trays. I don't have the time or the inclination to do this ::). They had a problem with some of the batch I had purchased as they did last year. I have used their products for years & not had problems until last year. I don't buy MPC to put most of it in the composter. The bags you bought were obviously not from the problem batch. Lucky you ;).
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No one has mentioned the awful small when opening the JAb bags. Sewage!!! I sent an e-mail to JAb complaining of the quality but to date have had no reply. I will compost the bags that I have and hope the sewage source will make good manure for next year.
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I never seem to have had a problems batch with my New Horizon. I have planted out some of the best plants I have ever had this year using the stuff. And at least their customer service is honest.
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I always find what Linksyokel posts on compost very informative.
Seems true to me - the brands are totally variable year on year; for example the New Horizon described is sounds nothing like the bags I purchased two years ago (never again) and the B&Q multi this year is not the same as last year's and their award winning seed/potting compost seemed to cling on to water like nothing ever before and most of my beans and squashes rotted away.
Anyway, I decided to splash out on large quantities of something more expensive and I've been very pleased with the results. If you buy in quantity you get a good reduction and it ends up costing not much more than nipping down to B&Q every few weeks where it seems to be pot luck whether you get a good bag or not.
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Powerspade - I don't have leaf mould, but I have plenty of well rotted compost. What ratio of compost to sand do you use and would the fact that I do not have leaf mould be a problem?
I use:-
1 part sharp sand
2 parts leaf mould
1 part homemade sieved compost