Allotments 4 All
Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: Simba42 on February 22, 2007, 09:33:25
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Hi all..
I have just secured my partner for her birthday an allotment. But I need help in what to do/buy.
The allotment is very over grown. What the best way of clearing the grass/weeds. Do I just turn it over? Should I hire a rotervater for the day?
What tools are required and what brands are worth buying?
Where is the best place to buy seeds? On the web?
What seeds are good for first time growers?
Any help anyone can give is most appreciated as I am a total beginner to this..
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hi there, i would definitley reccommend rotorvators, some people dont like it, just to give you an indication of what can be done in a year please visit my site soon to have a large hints and tips page www.lottieblogs.co.uk (http://www.lottieblogs.co.uk) then visit the 2006 page.
Rotavtors are a great way but try to pick all the roots of weeds as you go else you can just rip them up into the soil.
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I too would say rotovator. And buy decent tools, it really does make a big difference. I think my tools cost on average £25 each so I would say that is the minimum you want to spend the £5 jobbies from wilkos will not do!
Also get her some seeds so that she has something to look forward to sowing and planting. and a good lotty book too will inspire you both.
Good luck -
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I have a couple of books coming from Amazon. I will have a good read of them first.
Ruffmeister, your plot looks about same size, do you have an aerial plan of roughly where you put what in your first year? showing what grew next to what?
OliveOil, do you recommend any brands over the next??
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I too would say rotovator. And buy decent tools, it really does make a big difference. I think my tools cost on average £25 each so I would say that is the minimum you want to spend the £5 jobbies from wilkos will not do!
I agree, I've recently broken the cheap spade and fork I had, and have just been given posh replacements for my birthday. they're both Spear and Jackson with 10 year guarantees.
can't offer you much advice on growing, as I only took my plot on last Oct/Nov and haven't planted a single bean yet, but I hope you and your partner enjoy your plot ;D
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To clear the overgrowth I'd suggest cutting it down as close as you can with a mower/strimmer and then either digging the ground over or rotorvating if the grass/weeds arent too dense, or stripping the 'turf' off and stacking it upside down for a year or so to rot.
Our lottie was very overgrown when we took it on (see here (http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/joomla/component/option,com_smf/Itemid,91/topic,28338.0)) and I went for the cut & rotorvate method for the first two beds. We ended up with lots of recurring weeds which we have only just cleared. For the second two beds I'm going to try the cut & strip way, see if it does any better.
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Yes my tools are the wooden handled spear and jacksons and the Joseph Bentleys. I have the spade, 2 sizes of fork, hoe, rake (this is my only cheap item cost about a tenner i think and its crap!) Onion hoe, dibber and i think thats it other than trowel and hand fork... again these are cheap and crap - will replace with decent ones soon.
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I have a couple of books coming from Amazon. I will have a good read of them first.
Ruffmeister, your plot looks about same size, do you have an aerial plan of roughly where you put what in your first year? showing what grew next to what?
OliveOil, do you recommend any brands over the next??
Regarding an ariel plan i believe that can be added to the webiste soon enough and you can see what crop rotation we have been doing.
One un tapped resource is your local tip, we got all of our tools from there from spades to forks and trowels etc. they are old but good god they are worth it the older stuff is MUCH better than the new stuff, and only costs £1 a tool!! result!!
clear the top stuff off by hand, rotavate and then clear weeds and work sections at a time if its too much for you.
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Or like me work 2-3 sections and then spend all your time hoeing round the onions/garlic and never seem to move on to get more sections cleared whilst the weeds just grow an grow... Bought some round up today for those blasted docks... not very organic i know but i'm sure i'll feel better when the darn things DIE!!!!!!!!!!!11
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simba, make a plan on paper, put down paths (old cardboard or plastic bags, covered with mulch of some description(, mark out beds, work one at a time, if you're not planting, cover up as you go..although potatoes are good for breaking down soil..
what does she like to eat ?..could be you could have a permanent fruit bed, strawberries, etc..
seeds are available from everywhere at the moment, have you got netto, aldi, lidl, wilkinsons, they're all pretty cheap for seeds and fruit bushes/trees
have a lovely time, happy growing ;D
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Hi Simba and welcome to the site. O.k, so to throw a trowel into the works I would say noooooo to rotavator. It will clear your lottie for this season but next all those weeds will be back with a vengeance. So I guess it comes down to how you're planning to use your lottie. All through the year or just feb-oct?
As a newbie also I have decided to go for it the hard way, clearing the couch grass by fork- it's hard work but it doesn't take as long as you'd think and the result is lovely clear soil that you really won't have to dig like that again. (that's the idea anyway)
The thing is, you'll get loads of different advice, but you need to know the pros and cons of the rotavator option. You will probably end up doing it every year or at least doing a hell of a lot of weeding. My plan for this year is I've cleared the bottom 1/3 completely, am covering the rest with carpet, black plastic, cardboard to smother the rest and give me a fighting chance. I'll have one big bed veggie patch style and a strawberry patch ( tons of plants left by last tenant) while I work out placing permanant beds and greenhouse etc and do the work through the summer and aim at getting it pretty much in order in time for next years growing.
As for tools, they don't have to be expensive, try car boot sales ( brill fork for £5, really sharp and strong) also my latest love-freecycle!
Have to say, superb present and whatever your method, happy growing! :D
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AHHHHHH!!! The great rotivator debate ;D
Welcome Simba! And what a lovely birthday present to buy someone :)
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Hi Simba and welcome, lots of advise already so don't want to confuse you with too much. I wouldn't rotavate because it will break up your weeds ten fold and they will all grow back on you. Mark out a bed turn over taking out the worst of the grass and weeds, buy some seed potatoes and plant them there because they are not to fussy about the ground. Mark out some other beds and skim the grass off the top with a spade dig these over and weed, not taking on to much at a time, cover the rest with carpet or black plastic you will might not have time to do it all this year so the coverings will suppress the weeds until you are ready for it, and as Emmy says car boots are just the jobbie for tools. Happy digging. ;D ;D ;D
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Hello again Simba, so busy waffling on I forgot to say, good things to grow are whatever you like to eat, or feel is too pricey (babycorn, asparagus etc).
This year I'm growing: spuds, onions, garlic, peas and beans (few varieties of each) maybe carrots, salad 'cut and come again' leaves, lettuce, toms, going to give melons a go, strawbs, rasps, rhubarb already there. Also parsnips, cabbage, broccoli (purple and green) babycorn, squash and flowers like sweet pea, marigold, sunflowers for kids etc. Will also try to set up little herb garden and looking at sinking old butlers sink for pond.
Also check out Steve Partridges gorgeous site www.myallotments.com. Ace advice for crop rotation and just really inspiring. And makes you sick with envy, but hey, something to aspire to! :)
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Thanks everybody for all the input.
I think i may have hit a nerve with the rotivator debate.
Must admit that the photo's on Steve Partridges's website looks more like a garden centre than a Allotment.. But that’s good I think :)
Yes I think the plot will be divided into 6 and will be rotating annually.
I'll get down to the plot and measure up and find out how big it is and then ask for help with suggested bed sizes.
As for tools, I think I will get new tools as it is a present and new shiny tools looks more impressive.
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lidl's getting stainless steel tools with wooden handles in on from thursday 1st march, 38% cheaper than homebase, if there's one near you ;D
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the rotorvator debate will run and run and run, but its down to personal prefrence really, if you can pick the weeds after rotavating then your fine and will have lovely soil minmium effort.
we however dig and rotavate :-)
enjoy the lottie, it really is a welcome break to the 9-5 routine, and dont get disheartened with the weeds and lack of growth at start, it will come. if we can do it you can too.
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Hi simba42, welcome to A4A. My allotment hadn't been cultivated for 5 years so you can imagine how over grown it was, I went to a farm suppliers and a big roll of silage sheeting, weed killer had been sprayed over the plot by the council and I just covered the whole plot with poly, now all I have to do is lift up sections as I need them, Weed Free ;D. one of my fellow lottie holders used weed killer then rotivated it and now there plot is covered in weeds again, all a rotivator does is chop up the roots of the weeds plants them back in the ground so that they can regrow. great idea for a present, shes a lucky girl ;D
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Hi Simba & welcome! What a great pressie, very thoughtful, top marks for that one ;D !
As for advice, i'm a newbie too so can't help you on that one, but can tell you what we've got in mind for our plot. We took on an allotment :o (from Jan 1st this year!) very close to our house. To date it's been rotovated (or ploughed as our lottie neighbours would call it) and we've pegged out four rotation beds, using about half of the available space. The rest of the space we're gonna cover with black sheeting until next year, then probably venture into fruit :o .
We're growing small amounts of lots of different veggies so that if we have a few failures at least we'll still have something to crop - well that's the theory anyway ;) . We're going for the things we love, things we think are expensive in the shops, things we think will taste a hundred times better fresh out the ground instead of wrapped in plastic and flown half way round the world. Plus, we're trying to be as natural (or organic) as possible, so could be an interesting year :o ;D
Main thing is to enjoy it, and take plenty of pictures for us all to have a good nosey at!!! Good luck, and let us know how your partner reacts to your superb pressie!
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have you told your other half about the allotment yet??
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What I want to know is if this is a pressie that your other half is going to love, or is it something that you've always wanted for yourself ;)
Jo.
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Good point Jo. ;D ;D ;D
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If you're going to use weedkiller, make sure you get a glyphosate based one, like Roundup, so that it gets down into the roots and so that you can plant quickly afterwards.
Other than that, get some decent strong woven heavy duty groundcovering and pegs, to lay down and kill off the weeds. Or use cardboard, large applicance boxes are good, opened out. Personally wouldn't use carpet as I think it looks awful and can make a right mess if it gets wrapped around a rotavator blade.
Rotavating is fine, but if there's a bad weed problem you need to keep at it and at it, once every 3 or 4 weeks to make a difference and kill off the weeds. If you do it just the once, unless you pull out the roots, it might make any nasties like bindweed and twitch spread.
The other thing I'd say is deal with a small portion at a time, and do it properly rather than trying to do it all at once.
Tools - get what suits the height and weight of the person using them. Expensive isn't always best. Some stainless steel tools can bend really easily. Here, a border fork and spade is used, which works very well for me because then I'm not trying to lift rotten great clods of earth, can do a little at a time and achieve a lot. You only really need a spade, fork, dutch hoe, rake and trowel, and also would advise a string line to keep your rows neat. And I forgot, get a decent knife too.
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No it's never been a passion of mine. when i brought my house i spend lots of money getting a landscaper to patio and gravel the garden. Then the partner moves in and 2 years later after watching many "escape to river cottage" and such shows decides that "we could grow veg in the garden"..... Any attempt of growing stuff inside the house, veg, herb or plant, the cat has something to say about it and as soon as out back is turn, all leaves have been eaten like a green salad.
So it's 100% a present for her. Although I'm totally willing to help. Fresh air and non-gym exercise must be good for me.
Cambourne7 - No she has no idea.. And if I manage it, she'll not find out till March 16th... Hard work for 21 days.
I need to go shopping for tools at the weekend I think.
Do I need to buy a propagator? or will most things grow straight in the ground?
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hi simba
I just wanted to say what a FABULOUS pressie!!!
my OH is completely uninterested in anything green (unless it has kawasaki written on the side and goes like stink!)
he's been to the plot once since I got it last year, and says he may come back when I've got a shed, a deck chair and a stove so that he can sit and have a brew, a ciggie and watch me dig ::)
hope you manage to keep it as a great surprise for her!
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Top surprise Simba, and your right fresh air, bit of peace and all the gym work in the open air, and fresh food at the end of it. If I lived near you I might even be tempted to help you but sadly Lutons a bit far but good luck and happy digging. ;D ;D ;D
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Welcome & an amazing pressy - I do hope you manage to keep it a surprise. Propagators are useful particuarly at this time of year. Just pop the seeds into it in trays or peat pots [more ideas for presents :)] & get them out as soon as they germinate. Keep well away from the cat. :)
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Hey all.
Just wanted to get an opinion on my suggested plan for the new allotment. The suggested plan is, getting scaffolding boards and raising the bed by a few inches and probably gravelling the paths. Do you think this is the best use of 150m2?
Thanks..
Oh and yes, its still a secret..
(http://images4.fotopic.net/?iid=ym8ja7&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1)
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What about hut amd compost heap?
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you're really enjoying this, aren't you, simba..that's a good plan, maybe the small areas could have compost or shed or greenhouse on?..
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Don't forget a sitting area to sit & admire your hard work. :)
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If this summer is anything like last, a bit of shade would be no bad thing.
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Make room for table and chairs, BBQ area and a beer tent. ;D ;D ;D
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Thats what the blue bit is for.. shed, compost and water collection. And yes if there's still room, chairs table BBQ.
I'm not sure about a shed yet as i only live 500yards from the lottie, and the less tools i keep on site the less chance of it getting stolen.
And yes.. I now really like the idea and wanna start now. It's hard work not talking about it with the GF.. roll on the 16th so we can start...
I hope she likes this gift.
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I think most people try to avoid having the compost next to their sitting area.....
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I wouldn't worry, she'll love it ;D
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remember to take lots of photos too.,
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Get on the net and send off for copies of all the usual gardening cataloges it is like Christmas morning to a gardener if she doesn't have them already.They are pretty quick in sending them. Welcome from me too XX Jeannine
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Hi everyone, just an update on this topic. The present was an AMAZING surprise, I totally love it, and got started on Saturday morning ;D
Got one bed dug (by hand in the end), there are tons of weed roots and stuff but hopefully will reduce these. Put Roundup on the rest and hoping to cover the ones we won't get around to until next year.
Thanks for all your great advice to my BF, no doubt we'll both be on her looking more more tips as the year goes by!!
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So glad the prezzie has been a success!
I probably missed it, reading through all the wonderful advice you've got here, but did anyone tell you their fave seed brands, as you asked up at the top of the thread?
The following are all lovely companies that are widely used by A4Aers (including me!)
Dobies (loads of veg and flowers) http://www.dobies.co.uk
Simpson's Seeds (specialists in toms, chillies and spuds but lots of other stuff too).
http://www.simpsonsseeds.co.uk/
Alan Romans, the spud-grower's spud-supplier. You may find some lines sold out by now. Lots of other veg, herbs and flowers as well, though.
http://www.alanromans.com
Seeds of Italy (Franchi seeds) is another amazing company, offering loads of Italian regional veg varieties.
http://seedsofitaly.com/
Well, have fun browsing... but keep an eye on the running total or you'll bankrupt yourselves. :D
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Glad your prezzie was well appreciated. What an amazing BF you have, he's really put alot of thought into this prezzie for you ;D
Jo.