Allotments 4 All
General => RHS Question & Answer => Topic started by: wahaj on November 08, 2006, 19:36:06
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I've been thinking long and hard for the last few weeks...and I'm really considering a career in Horticulture. I've always been "into" my gardening....and even though it's the first year I've actually attempted it, it's always something that's interested me.
The problem is I have no idea where to start even finding out what my options are, costs, time etc.
Basically I'm 20 and I have my GCSEs....5 As, 4 Bs, and 2 Cs. Nothing after that unfortunately. I tried AS levels twice at 2 different colleges, but it just didn't work out, I basically had a lot going on to keep my mind on it.
I'm on an average wage...working about 40 hours at my job....so I'm preferably looking for something that I can do at home? or something in the evenings. And money is a huge factor in it all, well....mainly the fact that I don't have any.
So guys...where do I start lol.
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Hi Wahaj, the way i did it, was to ask at my local college of the types of gardening courses they had, full time, part time, evening, or long distance, the course I'm on at this time i pay monthly as money is tight as well here, but you'll find that most colleges will help you out as they need the people (you --me--us all) to keep them open, (just click on this link and it will take you to the site)give www.learning-curve.org (http://www.learning-curve.org) a look, they are very helpfull, as you'll find any other college will be.
have you asked at your local works & pension office, they will be able to help you and advise you about getting any financial help, college grants, do the course now and pay it back when you work.
for work-- ask at your local council, parks department, for part time or weekend work, then when you have been there for a while you 'll know if you like gardening and want to take it up full time,
hope this helps
windy
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Hi Wahaj, the way i did it, was to ask at my local college of the types of gardening courses they had, full time, part time, evening, or long distance, the course I'm on at this time i pay monthly as money is tight as well here, but you'll find that most colleges will help you out as they need the people (you --me--us all) to keep them open, (just click on this link and it will take you to the site)give www.learning-curve.org (http://www.learning-curve.org) a look, they are very helpfull, as you'll find any other college will be.
have you asked at your local works & pension office, they will be able to help you and advise you about getting any financial help, college grants, do the course now and pay it back when you work.
for work-- ask at your local council, parks department, for part time or weekend work, then when you have been there for a while you 'll know if you like gardening and want to take it up full time,
hope this helps
windy
thanks windy. i rung the bank today and got declined for a loan. rung student loans and they says they don't fund anything if it's not involved with a college or uni. because the one i want to do is a home course for RHS level 2.
the one at college would cost a lot more and i'd have to go to it once every week after work aswell but i don't have a car so it's not really an option.
i guess i'll have to wait for another couple of months and see if my credit rating's any better to get a loan.
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hi wahja, sorry to hear that, did you look at learning curve, as the total price will be around £250 but you can split it down to 8 installments which works out to around £31.25 per month plus £ 20.00 for admin fees, so first payment would be £51.25 then 7 @£31.25 permonth and you cant find that amount per month,
have you rang your local council about jobs, ask if they would pay a home course or send you to college to take the course if you work for them full time. if you ring LC and ask for Iain or Jenny she may even help you pay over a longer time if you explain your problems to them , they are very helpfull, really, what have you to loose.
windy
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Most local councils now have contractors to do their parks and gardens,I doubt if there are any left that do it in house and if they did they would not fund you for college.
I note you do not have transport. How are you going to run your tools around?
If you find work in horticulture working for a company or Garden centre you will be paid minimum rate wages, they only pay more if you are qualified. Although there are equal opportunities, most will not take you on unless you look strong as it is hard work.
I have worked in horticulture for 35 years and it is only since I have been working for myself that I have made any money. But I have over £10,000 worth of equipment which includes a decent van which is essential.
Garden design is one of the options that some ladies take, but you need to get a name, which means showing off your skills at garden shows. To build a small garden at a show will set you back at least £4,000, so you need sponsors, who will only sponsor you if you are really good.
There are thousands of budding designers doing it at the moment. But only a couple of hundred making any real money.
I know this sounds very negative, but I hope you can find a way in, Try joining your local horticultural association. They can sometime give you some inside information. Get then to do a community area or adopt a school/hospital garden and get your name in the papers.
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Or look on newsagent notice boards / in newspapers for someone who needs a bit of basic weeding etc done for them that might earn you enough to fund a course like Windy's doing - it's worth a try!
You could see if your local council is going any evening classes, anything that is a start would help you decide if you want to do a full course.
Good luck
T.
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hi wahja, sorry to hear that, did you look at learning curve, as the total price will be around £250 but you can split it down to 8 installments which works out to around £31.25 per month plus £ 20.00 for admin fees, so first payment would be £51.25 then 7 @£31.25 permonth and you cant find that amount per month,
have you rang your local council about jobs, ask if they would pay a home course or send you to college to take the course if you work for them full time. if you ring LC and ask for Iain or Jenny she may even help you pay over a longer time if you explain your problems to them , they are very helpfull, really, what have you to loose.
windy
hey windy. Yea i rung them earlier on and spoke to them about it....They were very helpful indeed :). I'm thinking on doing the course after xmas....when i have a bit of money to put down for the deposit.
I've spoken to my local council and they said what ACE said...it's all externally hired people now because it saves them money and time.
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Most local councils now have contractors to do their parks and gardens,I doubt if there are any left that do it in house and if they did they would not fund you for college.
I note you do not have transport. How are you going to run your tools around?
If you find work in horticulture working for a company or Garden centre you will be paid minimum rate wages, they only pay more if you are qualified. Although there are equal opportunities, most will not take you on unless you look strong as it is hard work.
I have worked in horticulture for 35 years and it is only since I have been working for myself that I have made any money. But I have over £10,000 worth of equipment which includes a decent van which is essential.
Garden design is one of the options that some ladies take, but you need to get a name, which means showing off your skills at garden shows. To build a small garden at a show will set you back at least £4,000, so you need sponsors, who will only sponsor you if you are really good.
There are thousands of budding designers doing it at the moment. But only a couple of hundred making any real money.
I know this sounds very negative, but I hope you can find a way in, Try joining your local horticultural association. They can sometime give you some inside information. Get then to do a community area or adopt a school/hospital garden and get your name in the papers.
I don't know what I intend to do with it really. I know having a car is very inconvenient.....but it's how it is.
Minimum wage isn't a problem. I've was on £9000/annum a couple of years ago so i doubt it's going to get very much lower than that.
I'm not looking to be the next big thing to be on telly or be really famous or anything....i just really enjoy working with plants and i want to know everything about them so that i can be a better gardener. Because right now i know nothing really....and that's mainly why i want to start with the RHS level 2 because it'll give me some good foundations to work on.
And i'm pretty strong i think. I've shifted about 7 tonnes of soil in the last few weeks. I used to work at a DIY store where i had to lift heavy stuff all the time. I think I work pretty hard at most things.
every field is really competitive. I used to be a budding graphic designer once and that's even more competitive.
I know experience is very important in any field.....but right now...i just want to do this for me...i'd even love to work in a nursery....or even just water the plants at a garden centre.
I know what you're trying to say.....but i really don't want to think that far in detail. I just want a step up right now.
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Or look on newsagent notice boards / in newspapers for someone who needs a bit of basic weeding etc done for them that might earn you enough to fund a course like Windy's doing - it's worth a try!
You could see if your local council is going any evening classes, anything that is a start would help you decide if you want to do a full course.
Good luck
T.
yea i have been keeping an eye out on stuff like that. there hasn't really been anything or any interest so far. but thanks for the advice though :)
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hi wahaj. great news about xmas course,
have you looked in the Thomson local phone book, under gardening, nurseries, landscaping services, explain to these firms, you might get lucky,
windy
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Hi
Good luck, You could try contacting one of the landscaping companys have a look and see if any have had chealsea flower show....
http://www.upmystreet.com/UK/findmynearest/home-and-garden/gardens/garden-centres-and-nurseries/results/in/Leeds-4292.html
Have a look at nurserys -you can work your way up and perhapse they can train you up as a plantsman.
Target ones with national collections.
You might also want to apply for the job at the RHS
http://www.rhs.org.uk/about/vacancies.asp#GardenerSeedDept
OK you dont have the qualification but you have practical experiance with the allotment!!
Other alternative is to plant next year to obtain lots of seeds and sell on ebay :-)
cambourne7
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Good set of GCSE's there Wahaj.... I'd be happy with them mine are much more C heavy..
::)
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Hi
Good luck, You could try contacting one of the landscaping companys have a look and see if any have had chealsea flower show....
http://www.upmystreet.com/UK/findmynearest/home-and-garden/gardens/garden-centres-and-nurseries/results/in/Leeds-4292.html
Have a look at nurserys -you can work your way up and perhapse they can train you up as a plantsman.
Target ones with national collections.
You might also want to apply for the job at the RHS
http://www.rhs.org.uk/about/vacancies.asp#GardenerSeedDept
OK you dont have the qualification but you have practical experiance with the allotment!!
Other alternative is to plant next year to obtain lots of seeds and sell on ebay :-)
cambourne7
thanks for the links and stuff. I've rung round all the garden cantres and nurseries today that i can possibly get to.....and no one has anything. i then tried to explain to them that i'll take any work...and i'm looking to get into all this and i'm very interested and that i'm looking to do a course in this and stuff.....but some of them didn't even know what RHS was. that's slightly worrying i guess.
i looked at the RHS jobs. I'd love to be able to do some of them. but to be honest....there's no way on earth i could afford to commute down there every day.....or even move down there.
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Good set of GCSE's there Wahaj.... I'd be happy with them mine are much more C heavy..
::)
thanks.
but GCSEs dont mean anything anymore. No one even bothers looking what you got in them.....if you have a levels....it's something they look at...but even they don't take people seriously till they've got some proper qualification.
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I'm in the teaching profession and held to be something of a pariah for stating the obvious that exams are just a selection hurdle... nobody cares what you got at the previous level....
:-X
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I'm in the teaching profession and held to be something of a pariah for stating the obvious that exams are just a selection hurdle... nobody cares what you got at the previous level....
:-X
well it's true though isn't it.
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The truth isn't always popular!
::)
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The truth isn't always popular!
::)
who cares about being popular. If i wanted to be popular i wouldn't be doing my pond this weekend. instead i'd be out getting drunk in some meat market of a night club just like every other 20 year old.
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Good luck. Well done for not going out n getting sloshed and let us know if you find something you enjoy. ;D ;D ;D
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Hi where are you situated.
Im doing the course at a college in Leeds and it means tested on your annual income, so if you earn less than a certain amount and can show proof you may qualify for some type of waiver.
The course is pretty intense and I am so glad that I have taken the option of doing it in a classroom situation, learn a heck of alot more through discussion than I would sat looking at paperwork. Suppose everyone has their own learning style/ preference though.
hope it works out in the end for you.
trina
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Hi where are you situated.
Im doing the course at a college in Leeds and it means tested on your annual income, so if you earn less than a certain amount and can show proof you may qualify for some type of waiver.
The course is pretty intense and I am so glad that I have taken the option of doing it in a classroom situation, learn a heck of alot more through discussion than I would sat looking at paperwork. Suppose everyone has their own learning style/ preference though.
hope it works out in the end for you.
trina
thanks :)
there's is a college nearby that does it. It's moulton college near northampton. But it'd cost me a fortune to get back and forth. and the main problem is that the course is one night a week, 7-9. there are no buses back at that time. so it's not really an option.
and yea i agree...it's so much more helpful to learn in a class.
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I too have been looking to get into horticulture as a career. I love working with plants and gardening, and would love to work in a big estate garden.
I started off a few years ago doing a couple of college courses (self funded out of savings - hoped resulting work would help replace the money). However since finishing I have been unable to find suitable work, though not through want of trying. Was reluctant to go down the 'jobbing gardener' route as i wanted job security and a regular income. Nothing localy so expanded search to further afield - deciding i f i had to relocate to find the right job then so be it. Still nothing. Seems as if for all the qualifications you hold without the right sort of work experience employers just arent intersted. Creating and working in your own/parents garden for nothing and gaining loads of gardening expereince in the process, just is not enough it seems to persuade employers to give you a try.
So I have continued to apply for jobs, whilst doing oither things to earn an income, continuing to gain gardening experience in my own garden - just in case! Come the new year I will be looking again at becoming a 'jobbing' gardener. That of course will require some investment in equipment, which I may not be able to afford.
Never mind i am sure I will get there in the end. My advice would be, if you want it, go for it.
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thanks cadet. yea i know what you mean....its like that with a lot of stuff really, but as you very well know.....without someone giving you a chance, you cant really get any experience, without as you say, becoming a jobbing gardener.
and unless you have recognisable qualifications like the RHS courses to degree level, i doubt its going to mean much.
but yea, i think i'll try and have a go at it again in the new year.
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and unless you have recognisable qualifications like the RHS courses to degree level, i doubt its going to mean much.but yea, i think i'll try and have a go at it again in the new year.
Just my 2p, but I've completed year 1 of the course, and can honestly say I learned nothing. You read the A4A forums regularly, so I reckon you already know more than the Level 2 course will teach you. I'd only consider doing the course if you really think it'll help you get a job at the end of it. :)
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and unless you have recognisable qualifications like the RHS courses to degree level, i doubt its going to mean much.but yea, i think i'll try and have a go at it again in the new year.
Just my 2p, but I've completed year 1 of the course, and can honestly say I learned nothing. You read the A4A forums regularly, so I reckon you already know more than the Level 2 course will teach you. I'd only consider doing the course if you really think it'll help you get a job at the end of it. :)
oh yea definately...that's what i meant. i'm sure i know most of the stuff in the course.....but it's just what's on paper that counts sometimes.
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oh yea definately...that's what i meant. i'm sure i know most of the stuff in the course.....but it's just what's on paper that counts sometimes.
*nodnod* It's quite frustrating. You could also give calling your local-ish colleges a go to see if they'd let you sit the exams as an external candidate. Only one near here would let me, and it would've still cost me £50 to sit the second exam, but you might find your nearby colleges are more helpful. Buy the big red book 'Handbook for Horticultural Students', sit the exams, and that'd be a pretty cheap way of doing things.. :)
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This is the problem I think with horticulture as well as many other proffessions. Too much emphasis on having the right bits of paper (qualifications) and less on actual practical knowledge and the ability to do the job. Then employers STILL want proof of experience, which if you are fresh out of college you justdont have - because the college courses concentrate on the academic theory rather than the practical side.
With the gardening expereince i have i could probably be able to to the job of a senior gardener at some big estate garden, yet without proof that i could do the job, i wouldnt stand a chance if i applied for such a job,
What horticulture needs is a return to the apprenticeships of old, where you realy did earn as you learn, and gained the experience and qualifications you needed to pursue a career in the industry.
OK I'll get of the soapbox now dont worry! ;)
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nah i agree with you cadet. i wish i had someone that i did gardening with every day and learnt about the job as i did it and got paid for it. but yea....loads of places require experience before you can get into it.
the best example is Human Resources in any company. Any time you see any HR position, regardless of what role in the department it is, you can't get the jobs without experience. Yet no one will give you the chance to gain that experience....and there's no qualification you can get to get the job either. it seems it's a very select group of people who get the job....and they probably have to be in the company before they get it.
and yea fluffygrue, i did look into local colleges....i haven't had any job as the nearest one that does a gardening course is out of my reach transportation wise.
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the best example is Human Resources in any company. Any time you see any HR position, regardless of what role in the department it is, you can't get the jobs without experience. Yet no one will give you the chance to gain that experience....and there's no qualification you can get to get the job either.
Can't comment on the horticultural quals but I can about HR (been there, done that) Best way is to start off with the Certificate in Personnel Practice and then progress to graduate member status of Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development. Most people who work their way up start off in an admin role. Those with a degree and CPP as a min might start in an HR Officer/Advisor role, but depends on the organisation, alot want part CIPD as well.
Most HR departments are getting smaller, which is why there are so few vacancies and why employers can be very choosy....
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Most HR departments are getting smaller, which is why there are so few vacancies and why employers can be very choosy....
I had the opposite impression, which was that there are many more HR people required these days, to comply with the larger amount of regulation on employers.
Anyway. Few discussion points for Wahaj & Garden Cadet.
- The RHS General certificate (level 2). I sometimes browse the jobs pages in the various nursery/horticulture/landscaping trade press. I hardly ever see RHS qualifications specified as a requirement. Agree with fluffygrue's comments that anyone reasonably intelligent with some gardening knowledge could pass it by buying a couple of books and applying themselves.
I've seen the RHS course material for HCC and frankly I'd be unhappy at having paid more than £20 for it, rather than the few hundred they charge. You can often pick up old versions on ebay for not much. I can't comment on the quality of their tutors, which I guess is what you're paying for.
I did the course at a local college evening class. One tutor was good, the other was hopeless, but what made the class good was the other people doing the course - a real mix of ages and reasons for doing it. I'm sure someone who'd been looking for a job out of it would have made a lot of useful contacts.
- In terms of working as a self-employed "jobbing gardener", I suggest a look at Paul Power's book "How to start your own gardening business" - it's a well written description of do's and don'ts.
- There are plenty of websites offering detailed advice about getting into the landscaping/horticulture industries. I'll post a few URLs later. The impression I get (certainly around Cambridge/London) is that the industry is desperately short-staffed and finding it very hard to recruit young people (due largely to low pay I suppose), other than from eastern europe.
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I am a HR person still, and there are fewer entry level jobs about for generalists - lots of companies saving money by outsourcing or palming work off on line managers. Lots of graduates keen to get in with no experience and no qualifications. Pay to get part qualified, get lucky and someone will give you a chance - that is how I did it. Not cheap, but has serious financial returns after a few years. Cert Personnel Practice is c£500 and will get you into a HR Admin role if you are lucky.
Gardening quals - my former neighbour worked in a few of the local garden centres (owned by Wyevale), she had her NVQs and plenty of experience, and was on 50p an hour more than minimum wage. She then went to work for a local specialist and has bought into the business, which finally has given her some financial return. Try talking to local careers people about modern apprenticeship route. Unfortunately your GCSEs may count against you in funding terms, as you already hold an NVQ II equiv qualification. Try and bulk up your cv by doing some voluntary stuff - eg helping a local school with building a garden etc.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do.
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Hi
I'm a bit late into the discussion as I've not logged onto A4A for a few days. There seem to be hurdles every way you turn.
I did have an idea which may or may not help. I'm involved with Nantwich in Bloom (a voluntary body) and we are always looking for people to help out in all sorts of areas. Are there any local towns or villages involved in this RHS sponsored competition? (Do a google for "in Bloom", usually there are details and contacts.)
I've found that voluntary bodies usually welcome any help, and enthusiastic and knowledgeable help will be a bonus for them. They may also welcome ideas from new blood so you may have a chance to get some sort of experience and feedback.
As well as getting your hands dirty, you will no doubt meet people with similar interests to yourself. As well as perhaps having the chance to get personally involved, you may meet people who could possibly help you.
For example, we are into biodiversity along the local river, wildflower meadows (wet and dry); planting beds, planting bulbs, organizing local competitions and fund raising events, working with sponsors including local garden centres, and generally trying to improve the environment for the benefit of the community.
I'd like to know how you get on if you do follow this up. :)
Good luck - Willawiz
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sounds interesting willawiz. i'll definately look that up. i don't have time for this at the moment to be honest as i'm moving from one county to another....but once i'm settled in leicester....hopefully i'll look for info there. obiouvsly i'm assuming they may have cheaper courses in leicester aswell.
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wahaj - lots of gardening courses in Leics, plus I was in Stapleton garden c the other day (wyevale owned) and they had lots of jobs advertised, get in in any vaguely related job, work hard, then get moved into the bit you want to work in.