Allotments 4 All
Produce => Non Edible Plants => Topic started by: Rose.mary on December 27, 2005, 10:55:20
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Hi Everybody!
I trust you all had a good Christmas and are still full of Christmas Spirit.
I have a problem that I am sure you can solve for me.
One side of our allotment has a steep slope with 40' trees on it. At the top there is a fence belonging to the Council. It has been knocked about a bit and consequently the kids are making a way down to our site and causing a little trouble ???
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I would like to start growing a hedge of trees like hawthorn and holly, something that is good to look at and will benefit the birds. My problem is I have just looked up how to propegate hawthorn and it says it has to be grafted, now I know my limitations...... and it does not stretch to that. Can anybody come up with an idea for a strong and prickly hedge that is kid proof please? Preferably one that I can take cuttings to multiply the stock and one that is reasonably quick growing.
My idea was to layer the trees by cutting halfway through the branches and laying them across one another so that eventually ( I know it will take time) we will have protection on that side.
I wish you all a very good New Year and thank you in anticipation.
Rosemary
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I would definately suggest Pyracantha. Very fast growing, up to an inch long razor sharp thorns, self seeds from berries and I think roots quite easily from even quite large cuttings taken in Spring. Air layering also works.
The berries are also a nice backdrop in winter and its evergreen so good all round - unless you have to prune them yourself for that can be painful!
Iain
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You could buy a load of hawthorn from somewhere like Buckingham Nurseries (http://www.buckingham-nurseries.co.uk/); they're not expensive. It does take a few years to get a thorn hedge going though. Maybe a mixture of that and faster-growing plants. Rosa rugosa's another one that's worth considering.
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What about bramble? Blackberries, spikes and wildlife friendly. Didn't you do that Icy? Or am I dreaming again? ???
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No I did that, but was thinking along hawthorn lines! Pyracantha also faster growing!
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.......and berries great winter food for the birds
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Thanks All!
I am getting some great ideas. Robert that site is really good and I am going to go through it very throughly. I will be paying for this with my own money so I did not want to spend too much, but a mixed hedge for 10 meters will be under £20 so that is great.
UP - we had thought of brambles and there will be some included, but some brambles don't have big enough spikes ;D ;D
Somebody is giving me a Pyracantha and I will take lots of cuttings in Spring.
Isn't it great sitting at home watching the snow and planning. I have never had so much fun ;) ;) Sad what!
Rosemary
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Hi, I used to live on a new estate and the builders planted Berberis & Mahonia japonica .. both extremely good deterents to intruders. Both are fairly quick and easy to grow and need minimal pruning / care. Have the benefit of looking fab and both give winter colour.
:)
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Thanks for that mc55. I won't be doing any pruning unless it is to thicken them up a bit. They will not rob anybody of any light, and will add to the wind break we get from that area so it does not matter how high they grow.
Rosemary
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Get in touch with your local BTCV they can sometimes help with cheap hedgerow plants.
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I would also vote for the bramble, getting the fruit off as well.
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Hawthorn needs a lot of work as it needs cutting and keeping in trim as a hedge. If not maintained properly, it goes leggy and children will will be able to get under it.
I recommend berberis as it is quick growing and doesn't need pruning or any other maintenance. There are over 400 varieties and some are dwarf so you will need to look at the labels carefully. Woolworth, supermarkets and Wilkinsons often sell them much cheaper than the garden centres. I have a berberis in my garden in a flower bed and get scratched to pieces when I weed around it. I would definitely avoid holly as it is so slow growing.
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don't know if you have a Morrison's Supermarket nearby, but they often sell hedging type plants a lot cheaper than nurseries (although to be fair, they are usually smaller in size) ... bit of miracle grow and they'll soon shoot up ...
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Blackthorn - sloes for you and the birds!
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My problem with online nurseries is that they all want a tenner for delivery - I only want about 5 plants to make our wildlife bramble thicket a bit more interesting.
(I'll agree that hawthorn takes a lot of pruning to keep it in shape.)
I'm after maybe three hollies (mix of male/female) and a blackthorn or two. Will check Morrisons on the off-chance, but does anyone have any ideas of places with cheaper postage?
Ground's all frozen, temperature's still below freezing, and I'm itching to fiddle with the garden. Woe.
Melanie :)
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Ace - What is BTCV please?
Fluffygrue - have look at the Buckingham Nurseries Site you can get a mixed hedge 50 plants for under £30. They also have every other plant you have all mentioned and they do seem cheap. I have sent for their catalogue so I will be able to browse. I have till March to decide. I like they idea of a mixed hedge as it will attract all sorts of birds and as the length of the hedge I want to cover is about 50 meters I can incorporate berberis ,blackberry, pyracantha and a whole load of others. What fun!!
They (Buckinghams) also mention 'friendly fungi' to plant with the hedge to help it root. It looks gruesome, has anybody any idea if it is any good or are they just trying to get me to spend more money? ???
I know this will take time but it will be quicker than waiting for the Council to put a hedge up.
Rosemary
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A surprising lot of plants do associate with soil fungi so it's possible that it might do some good. I wouldn't put it stronger than that, and I wouldn't bother myself given the mix of species growing on the site already; anything they need will be there already.
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Cheers Robert
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British Trust for Conservation Volunteers.
A charity that tries to improve the enviroment for everyone. Planting, green gyms, community projects etc.
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Cheers Ace I will look them up and seek their advice
Rosemary
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How does Hawthorn propagate in the wild then?
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Seeds. I haven't tried cuttings but most Rosaceae seem to root fairly easily. Orchids are the classic case of a fungus-dependent plant; the seeds are microscopi,c and don't contain stores of food. When they germinate, they're dependent on fungi to provide food, and they need to be provided with the fungus if they're to flourish as pot plants. Hawthorn isn't that extreme, but it's possible that it may do better with the right fungi present.
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I agree with the Rosa Rugosa as they will need little attention and will not grow into trees. I started some off from seed that I collected from my plants in the garden. Would you like me to see if there are any spare hips on my plants and send you some?
Ivor
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Hi,
You say its a council hedge? how about getting in touch with the council to repair it or at least give you the plants to do it with. The council have their own gardening department. If it is affecting other lottie holders( children romping) get together to ask for help.
just an idea
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Hi teresa
I don't think we will get much joy from the Council as they can't even repair the fence that borders onto the main road. A while back a car or something crashed into the fence and it has not been repaired and also there is a bus stop at the top and if the kids are waiting for a bus they take delight in breaking a bit more fence, but we must not blame the little darlings they are just bored and have nothing to do.
Rosemary
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Hi Rose.mary,
Give it a go you have nothing to loose.
Next lottie meeting bring it up and get someone to second you ( a fellow lottie holder) then the committe will have to approach the council in force to repair the fence as well. Better still if your on a council site demand something for your council tax oh I can get going hee hee.
As for the little bored children bless them hide behind something with a water hose and let them have it. hee hee
You could always get the lottie members to use barb wire around the lottie or if the site has loads of money an electric fence?
A gander would be perfect I remember being chased years ago by a neighbroughs one every morning and evening going to school the devil waited for me. The good old days ha ha
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I forgot to say if you want some pyracantha I have the red and orange I can send you some cuttings just pm me.
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We ordered blackthorn, hawthorn and hazel from buckingham nurseries, and they arrived yesterday. I would recommend them, the plants look healthy, they were well packed, and the service was friendly too. Not too expensive either. It will be a few years before the hedge gets established as you have to be quite harsh with the pruning to get the plants to bush out, but I'm hoping it will be worth it.
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It's worth putting in a formal request ti your council if you want the hedge fixing. They don't have the resources any more to fix problems just because the problem has arisen - it need to be a) brought to their attention and b) be followed up.
We found all of this out to our cost as somone complained about the hedges along the road boundary of our lotties being too high & the council were duty bound to do something about it. I won't go into the details of all the grief that then followed, but if they've received a complaint, they have to take action.
Sadly, nowadays he who shouts loudest.....
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ps, on the self help front, longer term planning - I have "re-located" a few holly seedlings from under the holly hedge at work - they'd only get tidies into a skip when the contractors do that bit f the verge so I've given them a home. Keep your eyes peeled!
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Pyracantha, oo yes. Comes in red yellow and orange berries and when planted in succession looks VERY JAZZY ;D
Birds love itloads of nests and you can also keep it cut to the height you want!
Of course Blackthorne is best - Sloe gin ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hic ;)
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Oh Teresa! I have just had a good chuckle at what you said. If only---
I love the idea of a gander but I don't think the rest of the plot holders would appreciate being seen of by a goose.
Thanks for the offer of the Pyracantha but somebody on the site is going to bring some cuttings in.
Thank you all for your suggestions and interest.
Rosemary
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Hi Rose.mary, I have ordered some hedging from Buckingham Nurseries, and have been wondering whether to add their "rootgrow" friendly fungus stuff to my order. Have you tried it?
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Try Berberis Julianae - aka God's Barbed Wire - impenetrable without injury once established, likes regular pruning to keep it within bounds, has yellow floweres in the Spring (which attract numerous bees), and the leaves turn red during winter. It is also evergreen. Downside is avoiding injury when trimming - the thorns are 1" long and lethal.
Hope this helps, regards, Ian D.
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Hello Teresa
I wonder if I could be cheeky and muscle in on this chat and ask (beg)for a cutting of each of them. I saw them in full fruit this winter and they are stunning (they were also full of birds!). I also have a backwall that I need to cover with something to deter intruders and this should do quite nicely. ;D
I have a list of seeds on the Swop Board if you want to trade for something. Let me know.