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Allotment Stuff => The Basics => Topic started by: staris on June 02, 2012, 23:59:53

Title: removing rasied beds
Post by: staris on June 02, 2012, 23:59:53: at the moment my allotment is full of raised beds and the problem i've got is with the paths, the allotment is approx 100'x40 and i've got 15 raised beds so that is a lot of paths it's to expensive to cover them all so i just keep them strimmed but the problem is i get weeds especially couch grass growing under the boards so i'm not so sure any more that it the best way to do it and have been thinking of ripping them out and only having the one path straight down the middle.
i've mentioned this to a few of my allotment neighbours and they think it's a crazy idea but i'm not sure sure, so i'm wondering what peoples thought's are and has anyone had raised beds and removed them :)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Aden Roller on June 03, 2012, 00:19:46: Personally I'd prefer not to have raised beds although I can see there are several advantages for those that like them.

I would hate the restrictiveness of having only chunks of growing space and having to have so many paths permanently in place.

My full plot is divided by a grass path across the middle and one more near the end in front of a large compost heap leaving two equally sized chunks of ground. I also have one half plot which has only the perimeter grass paths standard across our allotment site.

I can plant the three open sections as I wish and rotate crops on a 3 year basis which seems to work for me. I'd be hopeless at sticking rigidly to planting in restricted raised beds.

At the end of each growing year clearing, digging and then rotovating in the spring is an easy job unhindered by timber planters.

Forgot to say - my soil is good and free from flooding.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Toshofthe Wuffingas on June 03, 2012, 00:36:15: I use mounded beds. They have no flat sides. It means I can pursue perennial weeds on to the path - in my case bindweed and horsetail. If I hadn't quickly constructed paths on my new allotment in April, I could never have worked a heavyish soil in all that pouring rain. As it was the paths were paddy fields but each bed stayed drained and uncompacted. You have two problems to negotiate: migration of weeds from the paths and your planting plan. Though I try to be organic, in your place I'd be tempted to use an appropriate weedkiller for the paths and then keep on the case. Only you can decide your planting plan. Beds can be subdivided easily.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: gwynleg on June 03, 2012, 09:44:21: I'm with your neighbours - I would keep the raised beds. How about using big cardboard boxes between the beds as temporary path material. You could contact your local tree fellers and see if they will give you wood chip to put down on top which would keep them good for ages. If you wanted to you could then put down membrane as funds allow.
I love having raised beds. I have a 10 pole plot and can only get there at weekends so find that my beds helps me keep things under control. I am 4 years in and have managed to put membrane on most paths now so dont have a problem with weeds on the path any more.

Good luck whatever you decide
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: elvis2003 on June 03, 2012, 11:39:04: another fan of woodchip on top of a membrane here...you could always remove a couple and see if you prefer it without?
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: staris on June 03, 2012, 15:07:44: the problem with using membrane and a covering on top is that i reckon i've got about 400' for path's to cover and it would cost a lot of money, i'm going to think about it some more before i decide :)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Aden Roller on June 05, 2012, 01:30:48: Quote from: staris on June 03, 2012, 15:07:44
the problem with using membrane and a covering on top is that i reckon i've got about 400' for path's to cover and it would cost a lot of money, i'm going to think about it some more before i decide :)

If you have a garden shredder you could try builders plastic covered with cardboard and topped with woody shreddings. Without the plastic the cardboard and shreddings would rot more speedily but it might be worth experimenting. You could always top up the shreddings once they flatten down and compact.

Thin bin liners or even plastic shopping bags might work.

Try some experimental patches and see perhaps?
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Steve. on June 05, 2012, 05:42:42: You could use carpets, they will last a few years and give some protection...which is better than none.

Steve...:)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Digeroo on June 05, 2012, 07:17:42: I have raised mounds of soil, but the soil begins to flow back onto the paths, which I cover with straw.

I thought one of the main advantages of raised beds was to improve drainage.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: manicscousers on June 05, 2012, 09:00:12: We used compost bags cut to lay flat when we first started, then covered them gradually with wood chip, some tree surgeons will supply the wood chip for free, mobility problems mean ,without our raised beds, I wouldn't be able to grow anything, they have been raised more as problems get worse :)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: goodlife on June 05, 2012, 09:07:50: I had area in my lottie that had raised beds. It was back breaking work to put them up but after 6 yrs I had enough with them..bindweed loved them and I couldn't never manage the situation with them as the roots got underneart the weed membrane and woodchipping in paths. So after constant battle with the BW it all come up..and you should have seen the amount of roots that was hiding undernearth the layers.. :o No wonder I was loosing the battle.

Now I don't have any raised beds but have beds that are 'marked' with loosely layed slabs..just layed on soil and are easily lifted if needed..nothing permanent. Slabs give me comfort of not having to walk on soil, they define each growing area and as the soil level start raising due mulching and spilling over the slabs, I just lift the slab and position it again with added soil underneath. Soil don't get walked over and it stays nice loose for easy cultivation...just like with raised beds..with added benefit from soil able to stay moist bit longer for not being 'raised' anymore and still not getting sodden as not having to walk on it drainage is good.

I've got 3 larger beds that I do rotavate and those beds are used alternative years for potatoes, squashes, sweetcorn but any area could be turned into large area by just taking off few slabs/stepping stones.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: gp.girl on June 05, 2012, 12:08:25: Cardboard and wood chip ( both free) will last for 1 year then then woodchip will need renewing. Is it is I have few/no perennial weeds in the areas with raised beds so this has kept the paths weed free for 3 years except where couch grass is getting in from the grass paths to either side ;D

Bindweed is a menace but there isn't much in these areas and it actually doesn't cause a problem even without the use of weedkillers. The back of the allotment is a different matter. I could get a gold medal for mine :'(

I like raised beds ;)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Ophi on June 06, 2012, 07:19:24: I was pleased when I was given an allotment without beds as I have a constant fight at home with paths and edging that love to protect weeds and slugs and snails.

The nice thing is that I have four areas to rotate and can fit more in than my neighbours. Downside is that with this rain I get muddy a lot.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: staris on June 07, 2012, 00:41:37: thanks for all the reply's and i have decided to remove all the beds and dig the paths and just have the one path down the middle, it will probably take me a couple of weeks to get it sorted.....good job i like digging ;D
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Aden Roller on June 08, 2012, 00:27:50: That's got my vote!!

(http://www.tiptopglobe.com/skin/smile/s7075.gif) (http://www.tiptopglobe.com/free-smiles-smileys-emoticons-blog-forum-email)

But it's very much a matter of personal preference.

I hope it goes well for you. ;)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: laurieuk on June 20, 2012, 15:40:17: When I took over my plot this year it had all the wood etc. for raised beds, the couch and bindweed had grown through the carpet and it was a B-------- mess. If you look on my website you can see that I now have an allotment on which I can grow vegetables .I cannot see why anyone should pay a rent for a plot that is half paths with no crops growing on half the land.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Aden Roller on June 21, 2012, 14:45:26: Quote from: laurieuk on June 20, 2012, 15:40:17
When I took over my plot this year it had all the wood etc. for raised beds, the couch and bindweed had grown through the carpet and it was a B-------- mess. If you look on my website you can see that I now have an allotment on which I can grow vegetables .I cannot see why anyone should pay a rent for a plot that is half paths with no crops growing on half the land.

Me too but some people find it easier to cope with a smaller growing area and less distance to bend over. I'm just too mean to lose out on space to plonk a plant.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: laurieuk on June 21, 2012, 15:30:19: "less distance to bend " I can understand but on our allotments there are plenty of "raised beds " but they are not above ground level ! Just a mess of paths and wooden edges.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Toshofthe Wuffingas on June 21, 2012, 16:27:27: I made myself 4 ft beds and 18in paths in April. The paths are plain earth and I hoe them and dig out emerging perennial weeds. I really don't know about the ratio of path to bed as compared to conventional rows. Bear in mind rows have very generous spacing between them for hoeing etc which one doesn't use on beds; instead ones uses the quincunx spacing which is more efficient. The beds are somewhat raised due to non compaction and addition of compost and mounded without artificial edges. Edging allows a higher bed but its expensive and harbours pests and weeds. I blame garden designers for much of the edged raised beds because they look neater. I use a bed system because the lack of compaction means a better soil structure and I believe (without proof) that they make better use of space.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: staris on June 21, 2012, 20:54:15: mine weren't really raised beds just beds bordered with timber it's a big allotment and i thought it would break it up and make it easier to work, but i ended up with about 400ft of paths to keep clear and it became a right headache.
i've already made a good start and about a third of them have been removed and i think it looks loads better and i couldn't believe the amount of lugs that were hiding under the boards. :)
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Vinlander on July 03, 2012, 23:57:44: The solution to all these problems with raised beds is to dig out the paths down to the subsoil and fill the resulting trench with woodchip. The topsoil from the trenches (which was being wasted and ruined by pressure underfoot) can raise the beds further improving drainage.

This is not theory - this is 5 years of experience - all entirely positive.

There is no problem with nitrogen 'theft' because the woodchip is not distributed through the soil - the growing soil is completely separate and there's no way the 'thievery' can move more than a few mm into the boundary. Crop roots will multiply where the nutrients are (in the bed soil) and just won't bother going into the paths.

Weeds in the path aren't a problem because they are unbelievably easy to pull out of deep woodchip - in fact I regard the paths as weed lures for rampant perennials - couch prefers to run through the woodchip (the desire for expansion seems to outweigh the desire for rich soil) but when any weeds appear I can lift them in a tenth of the time I would waste if they were in the soil. Many weeds can't resist a nice loose medium - and they never learn.

Admittedly my heavy clay soil makes the fatal choice easy for them, but if you're on light loam you don't have a problem in the first place (even if you think you do) you won't have any idea how bad these weeds can be.

As the woodchip turns into humus the level can go down quite quickly, especially at first, but you must keep topping them up because if the level drops below the bottom of the boards then soil will wash out into the woodchip and that would stop it being such a poison chalice for weeds.

Personally I'm looking forward to having a 30cm deep layer of humus in a few more years time because then I can use it as mulch and start again with fresh woodchip (adding cheap nitrogen helps speed the whole process up - I would recommend free liquid home nitrogen).

Cheers.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Aden Roller on July 04, 2012, 01:13:50: Quote from: laurieuk on June 20, 2012, 15:40:17
When I took over my plot this year it had all the wood etc. for raised beds, the couch and bindweed had grown through the carpet and it was a B-------- mess. If you look on my website you can see that I now have an allotment on which I can grow vegetables .I cannot see why anyone should pay a rent for a plot that is half paths with no crops growing on half the land.

That's how I feel - less path and more planting space. Not only that I love being able to clear, winter dig then rotovate the lot in the spring ready for planting - so much quicker and a blank canvas to start each new growing season.

I'd hate the restriction of set beds. My 12 rod is divided into three 4 rod sections.
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: Robert_Brenchley on July 04, 2012, 19:12:47: DEpends on your circumstances. Last week's flood would make anyone want raised beds!
Title: Re: removing rasied beds
Post by: green lily on July 04, 2012, 21:12:23: My raised beds are a godsend in this Noah's flood weather and they are brill in the winter. But in last years drought it was a headache. Now I'm fixing a barrel by each bed and I bet I'll never use it... ::)