Allotments 4 All
General => News => Topic started by: TULIP-23 on February 20, 2005, 18:00:58
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How about the Prose ans Cons of the New Hunting Bill. ???
Will it work!! Will an outright Ban Work. ::)
Or is this another British Goverment Cosmetic Cover-up!! 8)
I think which ever way you view this and its only my Personel View. :)
Its Cruel to the Hounds Its Cruel to the Horses and the Fox. ???
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i dont think a ban was necessary.
it is up to each individual to decide whether they wish to participate in it or not (i wouldn't).
to me, this is a) an example of the increasing nanny-ing in the UK ::) and b) it is cosmetic only as done purely to gain some swing votes for the pending election.
svea
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I agree with Svea, no matter what your actual views on hunting are it should be the choice of the individual what they do.
Especially when media interest has seemed to play such a huge part in this so called legislation, when thousands of people seem to think they know what they are talking about from reading a few reports in the papers on what hunting is about.
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PS shouldn't this be in Shed, as it's not really allotment news..........
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Natty Em :D
Maybe your right!! But News is News and Allotment Stuff
is something else. Shed or News ???
Does it really matter :)
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Let the hunters use their own domestic pets to be chased and ripped to shreds by the hounds and see how enjoyable it is to them (and hunt supporters) then.
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YP I hope you don't kill any slugs on your lottie otherwise I might have to come squash you on the head, or cover you in salt, or fry you under glass and see how you like it ;)
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YP I hope you don't kill any slugs on your lottie otherwise I might have to come squash you on the head, or cover you in salt, or fry you under glass and see how you like it ;)
Firstly, I don't have a lottie and secondly, no I've never killed a slug :)
Who on earth would want to fry a slug under glass for heaven's sake?
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Yellow Petals :)
Maybe with a Magnifing Glass !!!! ;D
Only Joking Folks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Anything should be up to the individual....but ONLY if no-one or nothing else is hurt or otherwise inconvenienced. i mean, some people choose to burgle peopls' houses. That is their choice. Don't make it right, do it?
Also, quite apart from the death of the fox at the end of the hunt, what about all the pets that are killed by the pack of hounds?
Yes, there is too much nannying in this country, and there are far too many laws. But kiling animals for sport (SPORT, I ask you) is sick and should be illegal.
Love Linda
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I agree. A point I was trying to put across. Killing pests in the countryside which have the potential to cause harm elsewhere is one thing - participating for pleasure in a sport where defenceless animals are ripped to shreds is another. It's inexcusable.
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Yellow Petal :)
Are there really such things as pests in the Country-side.
At the end of the day Its what we once called Nature!!
The only pests and this is purely a Personel view[ my own]
its the Hunters and not the Hunted!!!!!!!!! ::)
Should a Farmer choose to Kill a Fox to protect his Sheep-Lambs or Fowls thats another issue I would say!!
Then we have the Pests........ from insecticides and Pesticides
Does this upset the Balance of Nature...............SURELY
it must do...............then Genetic Engineering................
were do the Pests Stop ??? ??? ??? ???
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Hi Tulip :)
I guess some forms of nature will always be a pest to somebody but to eradicate the problem does not automatically mean one has to be inhumane to do so.
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animals dont have rights - only those we choose to bestow upon them on their behalf.
so it's inhumane to kill a fox, but we squash beetles and spiders etc? do only cute animals have 'rights', then?
svea
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but then you're into "what is the most humane way to kill a fox", something there has actually been scientific studies on.
and like Svea says which was my original point about killing slugs.
None of which is relevant to the original question of if the legislation is any good or not :)
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but then you're into "what is the most humane way to kill a fox", something there has actually been scientific studies on.
Yes, I can see why scientific studies would be needed to determine whether ripping an animal apart is humane or not. ::)
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NattyEm :)
Dont think it will work the New Legislation.....
What will the Anti-Hunt Lobby Do..................
What will the Police Do to inforce the New Legislation..........
We witnessed this last weekend..................Nothing ??? ???
So the Circle goes Round and Round ::)
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Hi Everyone, What is the problems with fox hunting ---- the chase it self, people living in the country dont mind because we know what damage a fox can do to live stock, wild animals, and home pets given the fox a chance, the BIG problem i have to it is, after the ten mile chase when the fox goes to ground (down a hole to hide) it get dug out by the master of the hunt and them thrown to the pack of dogs, as this give the dogs more encouragement to hunt and track better, a bigger problem is when foxes are brouht from other area and chased, not knowing where to run or hide, so fox hunting -its a good thing that the law on hunting has been turned upside down, i say -- ban the Lords of the Manors and all the people who ride with them who think there Lords,
catch you all later
windy
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Hi Windy My Friend. :D
Simple Answer ;D Let the Hunters Walk or Run and let the Foxes chase them!!
Now thats a New Sport ;)
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Hi
My two pennies worth...
I certainly don't like the way the fox is killed... but I would pose the question..
Is it really all about the fox?
I believe it is an attack on the lifestyle of the landed gentry plus all those who choose to participate.
If it was about cruelty to animals then surely at the same time as banning fox hunting they should include shooting and fishing.
Is the reason that fishing wasn't included the fact that working class people (mainly labour supporters) are the bulk of the people who fish?
IF THEY MUST DO IT THEN INCLUDE 'ALL' CRUEL SPORTS
That's done it...probably upset half the forum now
Derek
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Hi
My two pennies worth...
I certainly don't like the way the fox is killed... but I would pose the question..
Is it really all about the fox?
I believe it is an attack on the lifestyle of the landed gentry plus all those who choose to participate.
If it was about cruelty to animals then surely at the same time as banning fox hunting they should include shooting and fishing.
Is the reason that fishing wasn't included the fact that working class people (mainly labour supporters) are the bulk of the people who fish?
IF THEY MUST DO IT THEN INCLUDE 'ALL' CRUEL SPORTS
That's done it...probably upset half the forum now
Derek
Hang on a minute, give em a chance one thing at a time you can't stop all cruel sports in one go, the fish maybe next or maybe boxing...
Dog fighting
Badger baiting
Weasel mocking
Pig punching
Horse kicking
Squirrel bashing
Cat boxing
Hippo tripping
Terrapin bowling :o
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Hi Everyone, What is the problems with fox hunting ---- the chase it self, people living in the country dont mind because we know what damage a fox can do to live stock, wild animals, and home pets given the fox a chance,
windy
Then why is a bullet not used?
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Hi Derek i object to your comment "working class people" mostly fish, really, have you never worked? and what class are you may i ask. We are NOT all labour supporters and if we were is that a crime that needs stamping out.
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Well, that's me in my pigoen hole then!! Labour supporter and opposed to blood sports - must be Working Class - if that's meant to somehow demean me, Derek, it doesn't. Just reminds me that people should never be pre-judged!
Argue all you like, but if the option of "it should be up to the individual" were allowed in everything where would it end? Back to legal dog fighting, c*ck fighting, bear baiting ? In an ideal world YES it should be up to the individual but .......
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Hi
My two pennies worth...
I certainly don't like the way the fox is killed... but I would pose the question..
Is it really all about the fox?
I believe it is an attack on the lifestyle of the landed gentry plus all those who choose to participate.
If it was about cruelty to animals then surely at the same time as banning fox hunting they should include shooting and fishing.
Is the reason that fishing wasn't included the fact that working class people (mainly labour supporters) are the bulk of the people who fish?
IF THEY MUST DO IT THEN INCLUDE 'ALL' CRUEL SPORTS
That's done it...probably upset half the forum now
Derek
Hi Derek,with refs to banning fishing and shooting just give it time, and i dont fish,
the only differance between hunting and shooting/fishing is impact and outcry (40 men,women,children,horses and 80 mad dogs chaseing anything that moves over four counties thats IMPACT and outcry )one man in a wood with a gun (untill he shoots) or on a bank of a river with a fishing rod, onebody aware of his prescence,
cruel ---most people when shooting ask a few questions --- how faraway is it --can i kill it clean with one shot,what happens if i miss, can i get to the pray if i dont kill it ect ect,
did you know as well -- if it was not for shooting people a lot of the partridge and pheasant would not be on the land i understand it sounds bad but by there spot there here and that goes for the fish stocks in the rivers, canals, lake,
catch you later
windy
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Let's kill two birds with one stone!!!!
Don't ban hunting, just change the prey to paedophiles, rapists & murderers!!!!
The horsey type (like me) still get to chase something. The prison population is radically cut, saving us all a lot in wasted taxes in keeping such scum alive.
CC
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Just a small word on killing the fox, my memory is hazy I should go find the research, but until I find it...it isn't actually as simple as shooting or trapping foxes instead of hunting them. For a start have you ever tried to shoot a fox? Not the easiest task in the world, and not the most humane way. There was a report by The Royal College of Vetenary Surgeons http://www.huntfacts.com/veterinary_opinion_on_hunting_.htm discussing many aspects from the point of view of the fox. Also a fox is not killed by ripping it to shreds, it's killed usually by a twist to the neck by the first hounds a quick death, then ripped apart. Would it be OK to feed a shot fox to a pack of hounds?
I don't think the current legeslation is right. It is part class discrimination (a class I'm not part of incidently and which is a falicy since a whole range of people go hunting (just like fishing derek!)) and it doesn't do the job it is supposed to do. I don't think hunting should be banned, but I do think it should be regulated. Foxes shouldn't be transported from one place to another (not something I've ever seen done) hunts shouldn't be allowed to go over any old land (I have a friend whos garden was destroyed several times) but they should be allowed to take place. I used to be firmly anti-hunting, until I actually found out the facts, went to a hunt to see what happens and made an informed desicion. I now take my children to see the hunt gathering ready to leave, and we follow in the car sometimes and watch from the road.
Eeek its early I'm babbling and not making sence.
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makes sense to me - but they dont call you nattyem for nothing ;)
i agree 100%
svea
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Ah the Natty is from the dreads not the brain! I wasn't going to get sucked into a hunting discussion because its always the same we're never going to agree, thats life, we all have different opinions we should be able to respect them. I have also found when drawn into this when people find out I'm pro -hunting it then changes their views on anything else you talk about, which is sad, I hope that doesnt happen here too.
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Can we remember that most of us wish to complain about an establishment, a system, a law, whatever - NOT about each other??
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Hi Natty Em, I dont take offence to what you say, thats why i like being on this site, people understand other view, we all talk and dont get in a huff--- i live and worked on a very large farm (2400 acers) for 14 years where the farm owner hunted,and i saw a lot of the things in that happend in my last text, yes i do shoot and do go shooting foxes, Rabbits,Birds and other wild life at times, and eating some of them, but asking the questions in my last text myself,
some facts, the land agency ( the people who look after the Army ranges) only allow 80 foxes to live on the Army Firing fanges (Salisbury Plane) 100000 + acers,
with refs to the kill, the first two dogs grab the fox on his back quarters slowing him/her/cub, down allowing others to then twist its neck (game over)
Regs on hunting -- should be on getting the guns, to many young people can walk in to a shop with out a licence and buy an air rifle and cause a lot of damage to wild life (you have all seen the programmes with Rolf Harris ) that should not be allowed, and if it was, it could change things i call sport for the better,(yes i have a licence for a high powerd rifle)
still thats my view
catch you later
windy
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Well here my 68 penceth worth, class? the countryside? not everyone in the countryside agrees with fox hunting, at most its 50-50, but it is a civil rights issue, and you cant pick and choose them, I'd love to see this group come out for other peoples civil rights, actively encouraging changes, cus lets be fair, they is a powerful group, lots have been part of the old "ruling" classes, I say as distasteful as I find it let them carry on, its more to do with trying to create an environment where people just dont want to hunt with hounds and tear another animal to bits for the pleasure of others, but that only comes with change and as this group is powerful, and used to it, they are only self serving, like they have always been, and in the past these "kind" of peeps very much tried to supress and for a while got away with it, there are a lot of injustices in society that desperately need looking at and I suggest that fox hunting should go on the bottom of the pile, but it is a civil rights issue wether I like it or not.... dont get me wrong here.. I iz well glad its illegal..
right thats my babble
Ozzy
:-* :-* :-*
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Ciaran , i think you have made a very valuable point there. As usual something very useful to say, there are many many things that need changing in our society,before we get involved with one thing in particular.
If as many peeps protested about education and health as do the hunters this country would liven up a bit.................
C C what a fantastic idea.......
Lets agree with Tim and remember this is not about each other,we have always agreed to disagree on here and all quite enjoy the odd spark..................
cheers Rosebud
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Absolutely Well Said Young Lady :)
Im Watching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D 8)
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WHOAH!
I just knew I would put the cat amongst the pigeons ;) (is that still legal?)
I humbly apologise for classifying certain sections as 'working class' ..I did consider the putting 'the great unwashed' but that would have been even worse.
Yes, Rosebud I do sadly have to work hard for my living and would therefore also classify myself as working... with a dash of class of course. ;)
The point of my rambling post was to highlight the real issue that, in my opinion, the whole hunting issue is political.
Derek
PS...wasn't allotment gardening looked upon as a working class phenomenom at one time... ;) ;D Whoops there I go again
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Derek, don't apologise for calling me/us working class - it's fine by me! Was only pointing out the prejudging bit. No offence taken on this site surely - a lively exchange on differences of opinion is healthy but on such contentious subjects we should all be careful....
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Derek :D
Proud to be working class its 8)
Cat amongst the Pigeons!!!!!!!!!!!!! What goes round comes round back to Hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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;D You can tell I'm a newbie worrying about people not being able to distinguish between the discussion and the people ;D I should have known here there is nothing to worry about!
Ozzy/Rose I completely agree there are other important issues too and people should be just as animated in their support of them, bringing them to the front of the news hey, I'm very vocal about all my beliefs,, but my biggest belief is that we shoul dbe given more responsability for ourselves. Less legislation and more education. (thats broad education as opposed to brainwashing what the governement thinks you should know).
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Hi all, Hey Derek, you are forgiven, we have our discusions on here sometimes causes a spark or two but underneath it all we are a very sensible friendly helpful bunch of peeps. I am quite het up at the moment about an apt so i could have overreacted, but this working class girl does that from time to time ;D ;D ;D.
Take care Rosebud.
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Now that the dust has settled a bit and I was re-reading the thread I couldn't help but notice Windy's comment:
did you know as well -- if it was not for shooting people a lot of the partridge and pheasant would not be on the land
Bit drastic actually shooting people so that more game birds can survive, Windy -
even I wouldn't be that extreme!! ;) ;D Of course I know what you mean but "the other meaning" it did strike me as funny teehee.
By the way, Windy, couldn't agree with you more about the easy access to air guns/air rifles....
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Wicker ;)
Its been a fine dicussion by everyone...so interesting at times....lots of different views and thoughts....on a very motive subject. :o
But maybe ...just maybe Windy's Idea could be applied to all those Little B....rs!! and Big one that break into allotments
....shoot um!! Good Hunting 8)
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"Just don't mention the war. I mentioned it yesterday but I think I got away with it!" - John Cleese, Fawlty Towers.
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A tragic PS to the earlier discussion on easy access to air guns. Many of you will have heard last week of the toddler killed by an idiot using an air gun to target firemen attending a fire in the west of Scotland. Why oh why are the general public allowed to buy these weapons and what mentality attacks the emergency services in the first place??? I know, I know it's all been said before but it makes me rage......sorry
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I agree Megan, it's back to the fact that there's no fear in these morons, we must place a little fear from the authorities to make any headway.
They have no concerned about re-occurrence, they will do bad things that excite over and over again, because they are vertually untouchable. >:(
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Wicker :)
Im afraid your Absolutely right....what a waste of a Young Life.
Another Mindless Prank that went wrong.
We had Two Idiots here Threw a Paving Slab on to the Motorway from above!!!!!Killing a Young Mother from out of My Town Uden
What was the Bloody point of throwing the d**n thing
in the First Place
They have to Live with that for the Rest of their Lives.......
I hope that they think about their actions every day for the rest of their Lives...........I hope they have a Nightmare everynight Even thats too Good for them
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Still not calmed down........ but just think how terrible it must be to be the parents of the perpetrator if you had tried to bring them up with proper values - and I don't believe parents are always to blame. To have to live with the feeling of guilt as well as the consequences......
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I don't normally get involved in these sorts of discussions, but always read with interest. However, just wanted to mention, Ava and my brother-in-law both own airguns and use them to keep vermin under control on a local farm, (means we always have plenty of rabbits in the freezer!) The weapons are used responsibly and safely. I do not know any facts or figures on air rifle owners or crimes, but I do feel that it is the small number of idiots that use them as toys and get a kick out of shooting domestic pets, people or property that give the responsible air rifle owners a bad name, a few spoiling it for the masses. I shall now close the door on my way out, my own little rant over. ;D
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Neither do I EJ. I do notice though that whenever there is an accident that involves the use of guns the authorities get in a flap but it's always non-licensed guns that seem to be the trouble. Our local castle has just had all its floodlighting shot out and it'll cost a fortune to replace. Police says its someone using BB guns and they've damaged most of the shop windows in town.
Nothing better for the little darlings to do is usually the cry >:(
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Up to moving out of the UK I've owned and used firearms most of my life. All legal and used correctly.
Guns aren't dangerous, it's the person using it.
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Point taken, Ken and EJ. Of course you are right. As with everything else an inanimate object doesn't do the harm its when irresponsible humans become involved! I do think strict enforcement of licensing might help but then the licence holder would need to be held responsible as well as the perpetrator. Oooh - in an ideal world...............