Allotments 4 All
Produce => Under Glass => Topic started by: Garden Manager on November 15, 2004, 12:02:54
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I am wondering what heatingyou have in your greenhouses.
I have just got my first greenhouse and am wondering what is best (for a small 'house)
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Richard
I started off with paraffin in my greenhouse. It was a red contraption that held about 3 litres of fuel and would burn for approx 2 days. Once I failed to trim the wick properly and it killed most of the plants in the greenhouse, they were covered in a film of black soot and the whole place stank.
Since then I laid on a main electric supply to the greenhouse, buried armoured cable. Now I have light and use an electric heater. Probably not as cheap as paraffin but more reliable and a thermostat helps control the heat levels. I keep the fan heater on the frost guard setting between now and Feb, when I start to increase the temperature level as I start to sow new crops. The fan is also useful in summer to increase air flow.
To help running costs no matter what you choose make sure you insulate the greenhouse where possible but don’t forget about the need for ventilation.
HTH
Jerry
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Had paraffin heaters until last winter when the rather efficient Ava plumbed me in some leccy. Now I have a thermostat controled fan heater which is excellent. I also thoroughly insulate my greenhouse with bubblewrap and polystyrene.
I love the smell of paraffin, but did find it created lots of moisture, plus you have to remember to refill it, which is tricky if you are away for any length of time, and you have to remember to go turn it off and then relight later, and I started having trouble getting hold of paraffin! With the leccy heater, I leave it on and forget about it. I reakon you get a much more constant heat and better air circulation.
I guess it really depends how tender the plants are you are overwintering. Some of mine are very tender, and would probably be better off in the conservatory, but I only have soooooo much room!
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Thanks to thosewho replies and voted (so far :))
I am a bit worried about using parafin, though it may be the only practical way to get heat into the GH.
I have recently had to rework my greenhouse plans you see. I originaly planned to put the 'house near the back door on part of the concrete patio. I could then easily get an electric supply set up.
However i realised at the weekend when the weather started to get much colder, that the planned site was not the best site in winter as it would stay cold for too long and need a lot of heating. It would also be in one of the hottest spots in the summer, meaning it would need carefull cooling measures.
Now my garden is on a slope so finding a nice flat spot other than right by the house is not easy. The next flattest spot is in the fruit and veg garden, so after a lot of careful thought and discussion, I have decided to have a rejig in the fruit garden. This will mean loosing/moving some summer raspberries and certainly losing a few gooseberry bushes (though I have too many anyway and are prone to mildew).
The problem with this is although it gets good all year light, it is further from the house and it would be difficult to get power out to it (water no problem though ther is a butt nearby already). So it would seem that a non electrical heating solution is required, most probably parrafin, though after reading Jerry's post i am worried about this.
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Richard
My disaster was 100% my own fault, I am sure the parrafin heaters work very well, as they did for me over a number of years. One nights mess up cost me dear, hence me changing to electric.
I think they may be the best bet to begin with as it is the cheapest solution, subject to the availability of fuel. If you can find a supplier who will fill plastic bottles from a bulk tank rather than buying the stuff by the bottle you will be quids in.
Jerry
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i have electric-the first year i had the greenhouse i had paraffin.
without a doubt i would plump for electric again.
i find the temperature control much easier-just set the required one on the heater and leave it to it. the paraffin requires a lot more attention and i couldn't stand the smell! - how do you manage to like it, EJ?! i could smell it as i went past the greenhouse=instant headache!
yes, initially the electric requires effort and time to set it up, we have a seperate circuit for outdoor and a buried special cable. it didn't take that long really.
also, when you have the electric out there, you can use it for lighting and propagation.
i suppose you pays your money and takes your choice!
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Ooooo Kerry, I love the smell of creosote, tar, petrol, almonds and chanel number 5! ;D
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also, when you have the electric out there, you can use it for lighting and propagation.
Ooh thats a good point. Shan't be able to use my heated propagator out there will I? B****R >:(
Have to put it in the conservatory then. ;D
They dont kick me out of the house that easily!
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Heat? In a greenhouse? OK - we have a heated bench for propagation.
Chanel No5 - that was my mother's favourite!! = Tim
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I have been doing a bit of thinking (dangerous i know!).
Our climate is pretty mild down here, temperatures dont go much below freezing even in the coldest spells. Also the plants i want to overwinter in the GH dont require heat to grow just to keep them alive. (fuschias etc)
Perhaps if i wellinsulate the greenhouse i could get away without much heating, having say a parafin heater as backup for the coldest nights, and when I am growing from seed?
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I love the smell of creosote, tar, petrol, almonds and chanel number 5!
Mrs D. and my mum love Chanel No. 5 -does this mean I can buy them a pint of creosote for Xmas instead? They get a spray-on tan as an added bonus!
Jeremy
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I have parafin and gas. Wish I had electric. Gas heaters (I now think) are a total waste of time and money-they fail at the drop of a hat. I would say about £800 spent over five years excluding the cost of the gas-six different heaters and as from two days ago only one works. And yes I did keep them clean and wrapped up when not in use.
Stephan-not happy
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And to think that I was seriously considering market gardening (in the world of 'high value' foods) as a second career. As it turned out, Picture Framing was a better bet. Even if it barely paid the bills. No prob with tomato-stained fingers!! Poor Cleo. = Tim
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I've got a very old set up on the allotment greenhouses, using pipework run from a coal ( smokeless ) fire. This will be my first year using it and I'm already contemplating changing to paraffin.
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Just started using parafin in greenhouse and runs out so quick! was considering using gas or elec?
Sitting here now at 00:46 it is 2.5C outside and 8C in greenhouse.we seem to have biggest para heater 10M in GH.Must be on max flame.wick running out too soon also!
and burning black a bit? is this due to running out of fuel?
Is elec expensive? probably most reliable though?
was gonna buy new one or bid on Ebay for another para heater that lasts 2 weeks & use big one as back up?
heeeeeeeeeeeeeelp!
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If it is burning black the wick is probably too high, and therefore the flame. Turn it back a touch and leave for 5 mins and then check again.
The wick may also need trimming. My wicks, on a prasene(sp) big red heater used to last a season at least so I would guess yours is not set right.
Electric is more reliable but do get a decent thermostat to make sure you are not heating when it is not needed.
Jerry
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Hi I use parrafin and use my small greenhouse to overwinter things that just need to be above freezing. I'm using it on 4x8 house now which my two tower heater makes lovely and warm but previously I used it on a 6x8 and it just stayed nicely above freezing. Both were well insolated. If I had to use it 24 hours a day it would use 2 gallon in a week(about £6) but in the last few years I've used it I never had had to use it like that-normally its a couple of nights a week through winter and the odd day too when its very cold. Normal running costs are not high as I only have it on when the weather focaste is for below 2C.
Main disadvantages are you have to physically be there to put it on or off which is a blow if you want to go away in winter, and you have to watch the weather forcaste like a hawk as if you miss a night you can lose everything-I tend to err on the side of caution and if I think it looks like the weather will turn nastier then predicated i shove it on anyhow.
Whatever heating you use it will not work without plenty of insolation, I've never had any problems with ventilation with the parrafin heaters as having to go in and fill, turn on/off etc twice a day means the door gets opened and plenty of fresh air gets in.
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i have a large cold-frame which does for overwintering but i would love a greenhouse. I would have it really well- heated (gas is an option instead of leccy) so O could grow fabulaous conservatory plants - sod the expense.
cheers suzy
ps, the cold frame is terrific as it is all lined with polystyrene, with twin wall glazing and breeze block construction - I have never had to provide extra heat and have never had a plant loss from the chill.
But I can dream........
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Ok so I now have my greenhouse set up, got a heater appropriate to the size of the house (a 'Parasene 4' if anyone knows this range).
On sunday with cold weather forecast I got the thing set up, and worked out how to use it - simple enough considering some of the scare stories about parafin heaters. So i set it going in the 'house, open the louvre for ventilation (the vent has an auto opener so cant open it manualy).
next morning all well and good- inside was a bit smelly but no apparent harm to plants. Thing is the heater didnt really make all that much difference and only just kept things above zero (outside approx -2.5). I am beginging to wonder if the heater isnt powerful enough (like I said a Parasene 4 in a 6x5 GH - which should be fine).
Its Ok at the moment whilst I am only protecting plants that are only just frost tender (fuschias and pelargoniums), but what happens when i start growing from seed? Seeds need a stable temperature to germimate and grow, at the moment the temperatures are fluctuating too greatly (the 'house also gets plenty warm enough even of a sunny winters day).
basicaly i am not sure how to deal with this problem (being a greenhouse novice). Any advice would be welcome. Thanks
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Know what you mean Richard, I got a new "10" heater,didn`t make that much dif to temp and used loads of parafin.
Got two "ancient" heaters from my mate that he inherited from his dad and they are great. One has a round wick,fuel guage! etc. uses 1 quarter of the fuel for the same heat. Fluctuations are a major problem. I now use to keep frost free.
I think a major plus would be insulation ie:bubblewrap the greenhouse. But I think the only way to keep a constant is good insulation and thermo control heater. I was wondering if worth keeping warm over winter, just frost free for a few plants and use GH to start stuff early rather than trying to grow in the depths of winter, there is also less light in winter too which doesn`t help.
Still, there are experts out there who must be able to help!
My advise is stay away from expensive modern para heaters and find an old ancient rusty thing that is economical! :-\
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Definately need plenty of insulation, well that is what I think. I had a similar problem and that is why I now have leccy plumbed into the ghouse and a thermostatically controlled fan heater.
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That seems the only sure way to go but does it make your meter whizz round fast??? :(
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Ah you see the problem is I cant get electricity out to the greenhouse (or rather getting it out there would be prohibitively expensive). So I have to make do with the parafin job (any ideas where i could look for an 'ancient' model liek you suggest?). The one i have wasnt that expensive and is easy to use (and while a bit smelly doesnt seem to harm plants).
I think insulation is the key, I was hoping to do without as the GH is is a fairly warm spot but recent nighttime temperatures have changed this.
Would horti-fleece do any good, as i have loads of this and would have to buy in bubble sheeting ? How about fixing it to an aluminum greenhouse? I know you can ge special fixers but as you can probably tell i am trying to keep costs down to a minimum.
Thanks
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I thought of the fixing the bubblewrap? Either ducktape or put a wire across the apex of roof and the 2 top sides and tuck behind?
Ebay didn`t come up with really old sort with round wick but many others. The old one I got even had fuel guage and esso blue sticker!!!
bubblewrap probably best bought from office supplier rather than garden centre, someone like viking direct etc.they are on-line somewhere and I think a whole roll of bubble was about a tenna.
ask some old people locally, they may have an old type heater rusting away in a shed somewhere.
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I guess you could lay the fleece over the plants or seed trays that need the protection, but I don't think it would provide all over insulation...unless someone is going to say otherwise. I use bubble wrap and couldn't find anything to hold the stuff up with, tape is okay until it gets wet, then it all collapses and wires, well twice I nearly decapitated myself, so now I use, wait for it, top tip coming up, ;D pegs! Yup, good old plastic cheap clothes line pegs. I take them apart, deposit the metal spring into the bin and use the thin end of the peg to carefully 'pin' the bubblewrap into the frame between the glass and the rubbery bit. Thought I would break the pains, but never have and it works just fine and dandy for me! It holds it nice and tight, and hey, the colours look cute! hehehehehe
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I just tried holding the bubblewrap up by using the staple gun....... :-[ alas, no glass left :P
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One solution I've thought of but haven't tried is to reduce the volume you're trying to heat. Imagine heating a cloche erected inside the greenhouse rather than the whole greenhouse? I'm planning on draping bubblewrap from the centre of my greehouse to halve the area, as even bubble wrapped the temperature struggles up to 50 degrees using a gallon of paraffin a day. Of course it might help if I can find a large enough socket to bleed my water pipes so I can use the smokeless coal system.
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Thanks to all for replies and suggestions. Many thanks.
I think I will have to invest in some bubble wrap pretty soon. Even though the nights are a bit warmer now, the heater iss still struggling to keep the temperature up at night. During the day is no problem - i am even able to turn off to save parrafin.
Unfortunately 'djbrenton's' dea of partitioning the greenhouse is not really practical as the 'house isnt really big enough. Nice idea for a bigger greenhouse though.
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Am also looking at greenhouse heating. I think it was in permaculture mag where i saw something for heating up water - copper piping, black to capture solar heat which might be interesting to do. Perhaps I could also keep water in the greenhouse in bottles - would perhaps slow the cooling of the greenhouse? Something that Yeoman whatsit said - using water filled bottles around pots..
My "greenhouse" is a corrugated plastic sheeting extension onto the shed in the back garden. There are a few gaps - some in roof, others by the door where rain seems to get in (also acts as ventilation) and I was wondering what sort of heating I could use - not sure of the size - quite large really in area with concrete flooring and sides. Temperature in there with shed window & door open was 4 degrees C last night. Closed the window today, so I will see how much difference it makes tomorrow. My dad used paraffin in his greenhouse, though not very often, and I remember him having to clean the windows in spring - all the soot, etc...
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I have decided to use parafin - but only when nessesary. Otherwise I will rely on insulation and the sunny spot the 'house is in to keep things warm in milder periods, or when i have seedlings at a critical stage in there.
I have decided also to use an electric propagator on a windowsill indoors (conservatory) for things like tomatoes which need warmth.
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Shouldn`t get "soot" from parafin heaters, I think that happens when the wick is too high, you can see the smoke coming off when too high.
Try an old fashioned type with a round wick if you can find one, it is much much more fuel efficient than my super new one!
An automatic window opener is also an amazing little invention for about £20 which can probably be bodged to work on most things, even doors if no windows available, two types are for normal opening windows and the louvre type with slats of glass.
What am I talking about? everything I try to grow in propagator or greenhouse dies but when other half is growing it iit turns out fine!!! :-\
Andy
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Have been looking into getting a paraffin heater - would like to get one that is not just going to be frost protection. Quite liked the look of the big red one but that is too big. The super 7 would cover the area of my "greenhouse" which is 5.75 square metres, but how good would it be for doing more than frost protection (checked the greenhouse tonight and it was already at 4 degrees C by 8.30pm)? Then I found this: http://www.hurricanelamps.co.uk/paraffin_heaters.htm - I like the top one - boil a kettle at the same time!, but this I think would be too big. How about the second one with a maximum output of 2.0 kW - would this be suitable?
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I have been using paraffin for about 4 years now, its a parasene superwarm 4, keeps it at a constant 48 degrees, I did use a superwarm 10 for a couple of weeks but it used a gallon of fuel every other day, it did keep the temp at 70, but was costing far too much, my gh is 7x6.
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I got a superwarm 10 (I think) It is rubbish :o
Old fashioned ones the best,@40years old and cost effective.
Still got its Esso Blue sticker with the rusty bits!!!
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I have moved this, as I obviously unwittingly used it as a new topic, :-[ didn't see this one, ::) can someone help with the query please?
I purchased for a token fee the following Eltex Greenhouse Heater:
(http://img193.exs.cx/img193/7784/292686561bxbmluph2tw.jpg)
As can be seen the casing is totally zinc and it appears to work alright. I think the theory of operation is that the heat is directed from the wicks and travels up the windowed chimney from there it travels to either side of the of the bottom horizontal cylinder (heating that in the process) and then presumably to the vents located in the sides from where it heats the external air.
I wondered if anyone could throw some light on the following questions:
What would be the approximate year of manufacture of this heater?
Is the top horizontal cylinder connected to the bottom one ?
I was informed that the horizontal tray above the bottom horizontal cylinder should have water in it (which it has). I assumed this was to provide a moist atmosphere, but doesn't paraffin deposit moisture in the atmosphere of its own volition and if so then why place a dish of water there?
Can anyone tell me exactly how this heater is supposed to work?
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Simon - so yours is thermostatic??
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Does the water trap any fumes from the parafin???
I have one of those! just the botttom part of heater though.
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Found parafin heater a tie last year as had to light every morning and evening
Plan to fit electricity at weekend for heat, light and circulation
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Does the water trap any fumes from the parafin???
I have one of those! just the botttom part of heater though.
I don't know Andy, how do you suppose it would do that ? The fumes (heat) as far as I know disperse either side of the first cylinder and exit at vents either side of the heater and I think, one at the top centre of the top cylinder, I don't see how they could react with the tray of water.
You say you have only the bottom part, do you mean one with only one cylinder ?
As an aside, my elderly friend has just supplied me with a Valor three bar free standing gas heater and a full 20Kg cylinder, I'm spoilt for choice now ;D
I think I'll just use the gas heater for heating when I'm working in the greenhouse on cold days and use the Eltex heater as frost protection.
Which raises another question:
How long will the Eltex heater last on one fill, it holds about 2 Ltr of paraffin ?
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I would have assumed the water warms up providing more heat...maybe??
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I would have assumed the water warms up providing more heat...maybe??
I suppose there may be some truth in that EJ :)
However, I found the following on Google:
http://www.base-camp.co.uk/Wick%20stoves%20lanterns%20&%20heaters/Eltex%20heaters.htm
This shows presumably, the modern form of heater and there is no tray or second heating cylinder, but two seperate burners each feeding a single cylinder ???
Confused - I am ::)
Interpolating the burning times, I have concluded that my heater should burn for 8 hours on one fill, with both wicks burning or 16 hours on one fill with one wick burning. So that should keep the greenhouse frost free over night anyway :)
The above link should be helpful to those with paraffin heating as it gives a list of spares etc for various burners, I hope it will help anyway :)
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Tim,
sorry for not replying, didnt see the post, no not thermostatic controlled, I didnt know paraffin could be
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im following the crowd here- definetely electric. Although i tried parrafin and switched to electric and found it cheaper. A thermostat will ensure you dont provide too much heat (and thus waste leccy and money) and will keep temperature constant. Perfect. ;D
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I have toyed for two years with the idea of artificial heat in the greenhouse (mine is 6'x6'). I reckon that electricity would be the safest and most economical, if I ever get 'round to it.
From March 'til May, I line the entire inside of the greenhouse with bubblewrap to retain what warmth there is. I also check the low/high temps in the open air as well as in the greenhouse this time of year until the weather is more reliable. Currently the lowest night temp is +8 degrees.
Any seeds that can't handle the fluctuating temperatures of the greenhouse germinate in the lounge!
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/SEDUM/pastingtablegermination.jpg)
It's what pasting tables are made for ;D
Art
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Can I change my vote? ;D
Was on parrafin and in a fit of retail therapy at Gordon Riggs got an electric heater and its miles better :D
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Can I change my vote? ;D
Was on parrafin and in a fit of retail therapy at Gordon Riggs got an electric heater and its miles better :D
No But you can try to vote again - if it will let you that is.