Allotments 4 All
Produce => Edible Plants => Topic started by: Jayb on January 25, 2015, 13:25:27
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Anyone up for growing TPS this year? I'm going to start some at the beginning of March, or at least that's what I'm aiming at. I've got a few varieties I'd like to try, though I've not fully decided. Here's a previous thread http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/index.php/topic,65493.0.html
If anyone wants some TPS let me know, I've spares and happy to share.
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I now have five different types, so I thought I'd give it a whirl! I don't have a lot of space though, unfortunately.
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Would growing in pots be viable?
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I now have five different types, so I thought I'd give it a whirl! I don't have a lot of space though, unfortunately.
You could grow some of them in plant pots for mini tubers, choose the ones that catch your eye and then save them to plant next year. It works quite well if you are short for space or looking for a particular type? Say if you only wanted purple potatoes from the Violetta seed, plant little pots up with Violetta seedlings and they will do their best to produce in the small space. It's amazing how they are able to produce a few tubers in even a roottrainer.
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Would growing in pots be viable?
Yes and I think Violetta tps would do quite well in pots, as they are not too aggressive in growth and I found set tubers quite early, a trait which should carry forward for some of them. If you are able pot your seedlings up a few times, as you would with say a tomato plant, before planting in a pot or grow bag. When you pot them on pot them quite deeply, helps them produce a good crop.
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Thanks for that Jayb , I will be giving it a go mainly in pots but I will also pop a couple up the plot , referring to your fab pictures, exciting!
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Yes, I think I might have ago again this year...since you have gifted us with some seeds :icon_thumleft:
Though I still have quite number of others in my seedbox...maybe I should go mad and sow the lot... :icon_cheers: :toothy10:
Last time I grew mine is BIG buckets and they did really well....looooads of spuds, though most were more of 'seed potatoes' , I did get few larger ones too for the dinner plate.
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I could totally grow in pots! That's a great idea. That way I can select, as you say Jayb, and grow the ones I like next year.
Then I can use my tiny bed 6'x4' for an "ordinary" crop.
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I'll be growing it. Last year I planted a lot, in early March as you suggest. First a fox dug most of the Skagit Magic up, and I lost those plants. Then blight got everything else. SKM sailed straight through it. Winter storage is a bit of a problem, so I left the tubers in the ground. It's going to be interesting to see what, if anything, comes up!
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I'll be trying some in a pot. Have been looking forward to it.
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I'm still sorting out the seed parcels, but it seems I have seven varieties of TPS. The emphasis is going to be on SKM, but it'll be interesting to see whether I can get anything else past the blight! I can come any time from June onward, so it's a lottery.
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I can't get access to true potato seeds in Australia! What a pity.
I had heard there was a fellow in Tasmania doing research with new varieties and it had been his life's work. When he retired several years ago they closed the research unit and as far as I know disposed of all his valuable work and seeds and now just rely on commercial imports for our potato industry now.
I must keep searching to see if anyone might start up a similar program sometime.
While in the home garden we just put up with a couple of dozen varieties, some heirloom. I keep looking for "new" ones to me each year and give them a go. Nothing like all the fancy names I see bandied around here.
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I'd offer to send some but I think it would be against Australian rules. What about starting a breeding project of your own and produce your own TPS. Then you could select for what you like best and suits your growing conditions?
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I was just wondering.....does TPS seeds keep as well as tomato seeds?
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I have collected naturally occurring fruit but never been able to germinate any of the small seeds inside.
Not sure if potatoes are self pollinating or not so maybe I should be more proactive and dust some pollen onto stigmas so I know they have been fertilised.
I have a couple flowering right now.
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I have collected naturally occurring fruit but never been able to germinate any of the small seeds inside.
Not sure if potatoes are self pollinating or not so maybe I should be more proactive and dust some pollen onto stigmas so I know they have been fertilised.
I have a couple flowering right now.
Jayb can give you the full information, but in order for the seeds to be viable, you need to leave the potato fruits on the plants for several weeks after they first develop. Maybe, that was the problem, the seed inside weren't ripened enough?
I managed to grow my own tps once and left the fruits after harvesting for may weeks, before I extracted the seeds. Until they were quite shrivelled. And the seeds germinated easily, although they are quite small to handle. Jayb is the expert on tps growing.
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I went to the Chesterfield Potato Day this morning, and came away with two tubers each of twelve(!) different varieties to fill the 24 squares in the raised bed area I have for growing spuds. I couldn't narrow it down to just a couple, and since they were sold individually I thought why not try as many as possible?
Some varieties I deliberately picked because they are likely to set berries. I got five or six good berries from four Desiree plants last year which made loads of seed, so hopefully I'll have a few more selfed seeds this year and maybe even try a few crosses!
(I also got onions, garlic, various beans to add to my landraces, and best of all there was a seed swap that wasn't so much a seed swap as a "here's a bag, take whatever seeds you want, they're all free" kind of deal. :))
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Okay chaps I am going in!
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I got a bit carried away and have sown more than I meant to :drunken_smilie:
Varieties sown -
Palest Pink Eye (mother clone has been very LB resistant over the last 3 years)
Palest Pink Eye x Sarpo Mira
Violetta, open pollinated
Sarpo Mira, open pollinated
Kifli x Pink Fir Apple
Black Bog, open pollinated
Bolivian Yellow Hesh, open pollinated
Kifli x Ratte
Mixes
Huagalina, Landraces, Suytu Vilguince, Cocoon Khuchi, Khuchi Koochi and Khuchi Coo. Looking for a real hodge-podge of traits and hopefully some fairly wacky ones too!
Skagit Valley Gold, P1225694 x Sagit Valley Gold, Squat Orange Plus and Thunder Row. Hoping for some deep yellow to light orange flesh colours, fingers need to be crossed!
I won't have space to grow everything out, some will be for mini tubers.
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I have collected naturally occurring fruit but never been able to germinate any of the small seeds inside.
Not sure if potatoes are self pollinating or not so maybe I should be more proactive and dust some pollen onto stigmas so I know they have been fertilised.
I have a couple flowering right now.
Jayb can give you the full information, but in order for the seeds to be viable, you need to leave the potato fruits on the plants for several weeks after they first develop. Maybe, that was the problem, the seed inside weren't ripened enough?
I managed to grow my own tps once and left the fruits after harvesting for may weeks, before I extracted the seeds. Until they were quite shrivelled. And the seeds germinated easily, although they are quite small to handle. Jayb is the expert on tps growing.
Sorry missed this.
Usually if a pod forms there will be viable seed inside, although how much seed can vary a lot. Hand pollinating certainly helps with some that are shy to set pods, but the added problem is some varieties are male sterile or flowers just don't form properly. often falling off at the bud stage. The seed pods need to be on the plants for at least 6 weeks, longer if possibly to mature the seed. Though once past the 6 weeks they can be picked and left to ripen inside. The little fruits soften and subtly change colour as they ripen and will give off a sweet type scent to let you know they are ripe. Seeds freshly processed can still be slow to germinate due to residue of inhibitors.
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I have four varieties at the seedling stage - Desiree, Skagit Magic, and a couple of plants each of Russian Blue and Blue Belle.
No germination from Violetta so I resowed yesterday. I really hope I'll get some plants from this one!
I also added a few more seeds to the pots of Russian Blue and Blue Belle. Only afterwards I realised I'd mixed up the seeds so now I have them cohabiting. Oops! Oh well, it won't matter too much.
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My Violetta came up well. Keep trying!
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My Violetta came up well. Keep trying!
It's weird, because the other varieties worked okay but not even a single Violetta seed germinated. Fingers crossed for this lot, I only have enough seed for one more try if this fails!
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Sometimes one pot is slower than others. How long have they been in?
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Sometimes one pot is slower than others. How long have they been in?
I sowed them all on the 16th, so 11 days. The other four germinated in three or four days, and the Russian Blue and Blue Belle I resowed two days ago already have little roots showing now.
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Give them a bit longer. where are they? Maybe they need to be a little warmer. A lot of mine came up in short order - not quite as short as yours - but I had a couple of pots which took longer. One is still being a bit reluctant, with a lot less seedlings than the others. Naturally, it's the one people are most interested in. Apparently there are numerous Ratte-like strains around Europe under various names (this one's Russian Banana), and they rarely set seed. So the question is, does it come true, and will it produce berries? The more I have, the merrier!
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They are in a heated propagator, which is at 30 C.
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I saw a post earlier on another site which suggested that temperature fluctuations may help germination. Maybe a windowsill would work better? If you're on Facebook, there's plenty of expertise in the Kenosha Potato Project group.
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I saw a post earlier on another site which suggested that temperature fluctuations may help germination. Maybe a windowsill would work better? If you're on Facebook, there's plenty of expertise in the Kenosha Potato Project group.
Not sure they'll germinate at all on my windowsill either, the temp in my house is about 13-14 C and it'll be lower on the windowsills. Not warm enough. Might try moving them out of the prop at night though.
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It could be coincidence, but this morning I have a Violetta seedling, yay!
The pot has spent two days in my makeshift light box - when the light's on the temp is almost 30 C in there and it's 15-ish with the light off. Perhaps that helped.
Fingers crossed for a few more seedlings!
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I've asked on another site, and it's been suggested that the optimum temperature may be about 24-26 centigrade. Someone else said he was varying it between 50-70 Fahrenheit. 30C might be a bit on the high side.
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If only I had one of those fancy propagators with temp control!
Actually I doubt the temperature itself was a problem, since the other varieties germinated.
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It could be germination inhibitors. Fresh,, unfermented seed can be slow as the berry contains substances which prevent premature germination.
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If only I had one of those fancy propagators with temp control!
Actually I doubt the temperature itself was a problem, since the other varieties germinated.
Leave the lid ajar or off and the temperature will drop. Bottom heat is still beneficial. It is so easy to make it a little cooler in the propagator. Mine (not temp regulated) has two top vents, which can be opened, but it is just as easy to wedge one side of it open, where the tps are. Glad you got something showing. Sometimes these things take time. :wave:
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Apparently there are numerous Ratte-like strains around Europe under various names (this one's Russian Banana), and they rarely set seed. So the question is, does it come true, and will it produce berries? The more I have, the merrier!
If the seeds came via me, they were saved from Russian Banana tubers and were open pollinated. The tps I've grown from that seed batch produced relatively similar offspring, some really nice types. Russian Blue was grown alongside so it is possible some might have colour. I can't remember saving seed from the tps plants, but that might have been a L. Blight issue, you might get better results hand pollinating flowers if they are shy to set pods, but the parent plants set fruits well enough and had an abundance of flowers.
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It could be germination inhibitors. Fresh,, unfermented seed can be slow as the berry contains substances which prevent premature germination.
But the best performers have been my own saved Desiree seeds. No fermentation, I just scraped the seeds out onto some kitchen roll and let them dry. Just before I sowed, I scraped the seeds off the paper.
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Another Violetta seedling is visible now, I might get some plants after all!
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Another Violetta seedling is visible now, I might get some plants after all!
:happy7:
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The Russian Banana came form a US grower. If yours are from another source, JayB, then maybe we should compare what we end up with and see if it's the same strain!
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And I'm up to 4 Violettas!
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It could be germination inhibitors. Fresh,, unfermented seed can be slow as the berry contains substances which prevent premature germination.
But the best performers have been my own saved Desiree seeds. No fermentation, I just scraped the seeds out onto some kitchen roll and let them dry. Just before I sowed, I scraped the seeds off the paper.
I've found different varieties can have quite different germinating times even when they have had the same processing?! The Violetta berries I thought had been quite ripe so didn't ferment them further, looks like they needed a bit longer. Mine haven't germinated yet either (sown on the 24th) so good to read yours are starting. I've more seeds here if you need.
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My Violetta came up well. Keep trying!
So glad, is it too soon to see any colour variations in the seedlings
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The Russian Banana came form a US grower. If yours are from another source, JayB, then maybe we should compare what we end up with and see if it's the same strain!
I'm not growing any this year but I'll look through and see if I have any pictures of Russian Banana or RB tps for you to compare.
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My Violettas, and some of the others, coloured up after a few days. It's interesting to see the variation in some of the other lots; Violetta is the only pot where they all coloured up.
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All of mine are green so far.
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My Violettas, and some of the others, coloured up after a few days. It's interesting to see the variation in some of the other lots; Violetta is the only pot where they all coloured up.
Exciting to have lots of coloured ones, though I must admit I thought there would have been a range of colours and non from Violetta.
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All of mine are green so far.
How many days old?
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Kifli x Ratte F1 TPS sown 24th March and some just starting to be visible by the 31st.
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Progress for Kifli x Ratte F1 taken yesterday 4th April
I'm looking for a good tasting, long salad/waxy type, great for cooking with skins on.
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All of mine are green so far.
How many days old?
About a week.
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Give them time, and check again. Some varieties are all green, some are a mixture, Violetta is the only one I have which is all coloured.
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I've just noticed that not all the Violetta seedlings are coloured. There's more variation than I thought.
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Where are you seeing colour, and how old are yours? All of mine are just green.
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These are Sarpo Mira TPS and although not big colour difference, some of the stems are green and others have a pinky colour to them. (sown March 24th)
If they were Voletta (still not germinated) then I'd expect to see much deeper colours, mostly in the stem to begin with, leaves will come.
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Mine are a couple of weeks old, on a windowsill which gets the afternoon sun. The colour is underneath the leaves.
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I pricked out and potted up some of my best seedlings today. The Desirées are the standouts vigour-wise, being much bigger than any of the others (they germinated quicker too), and most of them had tiny 5mm white tubers already!
So now 12 Desirée, 12 Skagit Magic, and 6 Russian Blue/Blue Belle (I mixed up the seeds when resowing) are taking their chances in my unseated greenhouse. The rest are back under the growlights.
I just can't wait to see what they'll produce!
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Sounds like they are coming on a treat :toothy10:
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Sounds like they are coming on a treat :toothy10:
Let's hope so! I'm especially pleased that the Desirée are doing so well because I saved the seed myself last year. :) It was so exciting to see the tiny tubers forming too, none of the other varieties are big enough to have them yet but a few have some little stolons visible so they can't be far off.
Is it normal for the tuberlets to be white at that stage? I'm expecting Desirée to show some red (the undersides of the leaves have a lot of colour and of course the parents have red skins), but I don't know how early the pigment develops in the tubers.
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I've found tuber colour is apparent early on, though I don't know if this always holds. Sometimes roots are coloured too. My tps might not be well enough rooted to turn out and take a picture, but here's one from a couple of years ago, grown from Skagit Magic. They are perhaps a bit bigger than yours but you can see colour pattern is uniform. When fully grown the purple colour was slightly paler.
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That's a much bigger plant than mine, so I'll keep my fingers crossed. There's definitely red in the leaves, so I guess there's hope!
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How is everyone doing with their TPS?
I have some really nice-looking plants. I'm lacking space so my plants are very much cosied up together - 12 plants went in each of four 3'x2' planter box. Some stayed very small, some got decimated by slugs, the odd one shrivelled up and died for no reason at all, but many are big and healthy and flowering and setting berries, with nice little tubers forming in everything from white to peach to red to purple to seriously deep inky violet.
My plants from tubers are yellowing and showing signs of starting to die back a bit, but the TPS are lush and green. They've certainly coped with the heat and drought and recent cold drizzle better than the tuber plants.
So right now, things are good. Assuming I don't lose the lot to blight (touch wood), I'll have lots of tubers to sample and grow out next year, and I'll sow more TPS as well. I'll have to see if I can source something with yellow/orange tubers I think!
I was hoping to get berries from some of my tuber plants this year, as I picked some varieties that tend to set them. But Maris Bard, Pentland Dell and Cara have failed me by either aborting their flowers at the bud stage or just not bothering to set berries. One Cara plant is going to flower again though, so fingers crossed.
TPS is fun. :)
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I've got fairly mixed results. Most varieties picked up in the end, but some were much faster off the mark than others. Kita Akari hasn't done anything at all. Several others are really flourishing. I've had a few flowers, mostly on Skagit Magic, but no berries. Skagit Magic is diploid and unlikely to cross with other varieties, as most are tetraploid. I'll be looking for more diploids next year; they're mostly lower-yielding, but SM seems to be blightproof, so it's an interesting line.
This year I've been growing my TPS seedlings in large pots, filling the pots as they grow. It's worked far better than putting them out in the open ground, where last year's plants were almost all dug up by a fox a day or two after I put them out.
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Silverleaf, they sound like they are doing well for you, you wait till it's time to harvest :toothy10:
It's been not such a good year for flowers setting here too, I think the up and down weather. You could try hand pollinating when Cara flower again?
My Palest Pink Eye are having second wind and blooming again, hopefully a few berries will form.
Robert, I think pot grown potato plants are harder to get to set flowers, although Skagit Magic should keep flowering for months, individuals won't self set but they will cross with other Skagit Magics from tps, might be worth dabbing some polen about?
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Mixed year for tps for me, I failed to plant some out, they just got left in modules, if I'm lucky there will be some mini tubers. Some of the others that were planted out but got knocked out by Late Blight last month.
On a good note my Late Blight resistant experimental ones are growing really well, some have become infected but others so far remain good and healthy. A few have started to flower and I can see buds on others.
I took this last week, mixed lines some hopefully with LB resistance
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The bees are happily pollinating TPS for me. Skagit Magic has a lot of berries already, and there are some on Desirée and Russian Blue as well.
Any tips on hand-pollinating? I've never done that before with potatoes.
Also, Snookie has flower buds. :)
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I've now got several Skagit Magic flowering next to ech other, so hopefully they'll set seed. They're doing better in pots than my TPS planta have ever done in the open ground, so I'll stick to doing it this way, and probably plant tuvers out next year. That should get me more flowers.
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Sounds good and glad Snookie is finally catching up, it's white flowered and will set berries though not in abundance. I use an electric toothbrush to vibrate and shake the pollen from open potato flowers (I do the same for tomatoes too) I guess it works like a mechanical bee. I'm never quite sure if enough pollen gets onto the stigma this way, but to make sure I collect the pollen in a little shallow dish and then dip the stigma in the pollen. You could use a soft little paint brush too. Also if I'm just doing one or two I've tapped some pollen onto my finger and gently dabbed it on. If you want a go at cross pollinating http://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.co.uk/forum/main-forum/potatoes/3086-potato-breeding
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I've now got several Skagit Magic flowering next to ech other, so hopefully they'll set seed. They're doing better in pots than my TPS planta have ever done in the open ground, so I'll stick to doing it this way, and probably plant tuvers out next year. That should get me more flowers.
The way the blackbirds have been pulling out labels here this year, having them in pots might have been better! Plus it's a good way to be able to keep the tubers all in the right place. I'm looking forward to hearing how they do.
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Thanks jayb!